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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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Crèche signatures revisited

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Post by sharonl 26.10.14 17:42

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Also from what I recall Catriona Baker initially said that Madeleine preferred to play with the boys in the group but later amended it to ''Madeleine preferred to play with Ella''.


I thought the whole substitute Maddie'' idea was ridiculous until I read the crèche thread in its entirety. It made me realise that a lot more planning went into that week than I had at first thought

Catriona Baker, IMO, is not a credible witness. There was a maximum of 7 children in the group, 5-6 in Cats' case. How many of them were boys?

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( another matter but why is Elizabeth Naylors name changed on both occasions?)

Also remember that Cat visited the McCanns at their home in Rothley and befriended them in PDL. I also find her reaction to Madeleines' disappearance way over the top for someone who had only known her for a few days.

Given that Catriona had her own room and her own group, her being responsible for her own creche records, I wonder whether the records were simply manipulated. Just my opinion, but at the very least we can clearly see that the records were not well kept.

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Post by Guest 26.10.14 17:49

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Post by NickE 26.10.14 17:57

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:If there was some secret operation taking place then it would be important to get the Maddie sub out of the country before the alarm was raised at PDL.


What was supposed to be happening to Madeleine McCann that week, then? If she was never in the creche at all? Or did the 'sub' get used when a 'disaster' had befallen early in the week?


Does anyone know when the Naylors and Madeleine Ryder arrived in the area?
The Naylors arrived 28/4 left 5/5 same as McCanns

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Post by Nina 26.10.14 18:09

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Is this the same school as the one Madalene Rider attended, and Elisabeth Naylor?

Look at the bit that says..'midsummers night dream.'

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Ok so that link won't work. Both Madalene Rider and Elisabeth Naylor attended the above school.
Yes it is the same school.

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Post by Guest 26.10.14 18:14

@NickE wrote:
@j.rob wrote:If there was some secret operation taking place then it would be important to get the Maddie sub out of the country before the alarm was raised at PDL.


What was supposed to be happening to Madeleine McCann that week, then? If she was never in the creche at all? Or did the 'sub' get used when a 'disaster' had befallen early in the week?


Does anyone know when the Naylors and Madeleine Ryder arrived in the area?
The Naylors arrived 28/4 left 5/5 same as McCanns

Crèche signatures revisited - Page 3 02_VOLUME_IIa_Page_340
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So Madalene Rider didn't arrive with the Naylors so must have been with her own parents. They're not mentioned on this arrivals list. so were they already in Luz? Which could explain the earlier departure on 3 May?

What did Madalene and her parents look like then? Do they fit the taxi driver's description?
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Post by NickE 26.10.14 18:27

Dee Coy wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:If there was some secret operation taking place then it would be important to get the Maddie sub out of the country before the alarm was raised at PDL.


What was supposed to be happening to Madeleine McCann that week, then? If she was never in the creche at all? Or did the 'sub' get used when a 'disaster' had befallen early in the week?


Does anyone know when the Naylors and Madeleine Ryder arrived in the area?
The Naylors arrived 28/4 left 5/5 same as McCanns

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So Madalene Rider didn't arrive with the Naylors so must have been with her own parents. They're not mentioned on this arrivals list. so were they already in Luz? Which could explain the earlier departure on 3 May?

What did Madalene and her parents look like then? Do they fit the taxi driver's description?
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Riders did not stay at OC,someone here might know where they stayed?

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Post by Guest 26.10.14 19:30

I thought that picture was the Naylors? Doubt there's any of the Riders?
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Post by j.rob 26.10.14 19:42

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:That is why the much younger photo of Maddie was given to the GNR.  also why Maddie was described as small for her age at 90cm and was blonde.

Because Madelene Ryder was 90cm and blonde?

And/or because it was misleading/confusing?
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Post by Guest 26.10.14 19:44

Dee Coy wrote:I thought that picture was the Naylors? Doubt there's any of the Riders?

I believe the picture is of the Riders.
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Post by Guest 26.10.14 19:58

@Ladyinred wrote:
Dee Coy wrote:I thought that picture was the Naylors? Doubt there's any of the Riders?

I believe the picture is of the Riders.

Apologies, LIR I have jumped to the wrong assumption. Thank you. wow
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Post by Hicks 26.10.14 20:06

Lets go out on a tangent for a moment and assume that we are on the right track in that the Naylor's, Joe Rider and his partner were involved. What would bind them? why would both couples be complicit in covering up for the McCann's? Swinging maybe?

I have read elsewhere that it is possible that Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien already knew the Naylor's.

JT mentions something about the Naylor's in her statement. Something about meeting them on the beach. Tanner refers to Ainne Naylor as 'Oryna' .

All imo.

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Post by NickE 26.10.14 20:59

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Lets go out on a tangent for a moment and assume that we are on the right track in that the Naylor's, Joe Rider and his partner were involved. What would bind them? why would both couples be complicit in covering up for the McCann's? Swinging maybe?

I have read elsewhere that it is possible that Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien already knew the Naylor's.

JT mentions something about the Naylor's in her statement. Something about meeting them on the beach. Tanner refers to Ainne Naylor as 'Oryna' .

All imo.
Mr Naylor worked at "Landsbanki Securities" at the time and later at "The Matrix group".
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Joe Rider is a video game guru.
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I think Rider had an office in the same building as Landsbanki where R Naylor worked in 2007.
This "beach statement",Was it Jane who also mentioned something about a person she thought was called "Rob"?
According to "Kiko" did Naylors and Tanner/O'Brien knew each other through sailing,and he also believe that Madeleine was gone April 29, and then the question is: 

Who called Jane Tanner at 4:12 AM April 29 and why?
Tanner,friend with the McCann´s, Tanner and Murat-->apartment Burgau(DNA), Tanner knew the Naylors--->>best friends with Riders.
Taxidriver was sure that it was Murat he drove in his car and a girl in a pink pajamas.(substitute girl M.R????)

eek

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Post by Hicks 26.10.14 21:32

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Lets go out on a tangent for a moment and assume that we are on the right track in that the Naylor's, Joe Rider and his partner were involved. What would bind them? why would both couples be complicit in covering up for the McCann's? Swinging maybe?

I have read elsewhere that it is possible that Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien already knew the Naylor's.

JT mentions something about the Naylor's in her statement. Something about meeting them on the beach. Tanner refers to Ainne Naylor as 'Oryna' .

All imo.
Mr Naylor worked at "Landsbanki Securities" at the time and later at "The Matrix group".
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Joe Rider is a video game guru.
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I think Rider had an office in the same building as Landsbanki where R Naylor worked in 2007.
This "beach statement",Was it Jane who also mentioned something about a person she thought was called "Rob"?
According to "Kiko" did Naylors and Tanner/O'Brien knew each other through sailing.
JT statement May 10th.

2 May...... she went to the beach where she met DP and FP. She and other members of the group made the aquaintence of, in the course of their tennis lessons, a lady called O. The deponents husband ROB, also knew the lady's husband named Rob from windsurfing classes. The couple Rob and O were also guests at the complex. That morning having been to her daughters tennis class, the deponent went to the beach meeting ROB there. From what she knows the couple, Rob and O, have two children ( a girl of three and a younger child not knowing whether boy or girl)She think they were Londoners. Just Normal people'.

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Post by NickE 26.10.14 21:42

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Lets go out on a tangent for a moment and assume that we are on the right track in that the Naylor's, Joe Rider and his partner were involved. What would bind them? why would both couples be complicit in covering up for the McCann's? Swinging maybe?

I have read elsewhere that it is possible that Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien already knew the Naylor's.

JT mentions something about the Naylor's in her statement. Something about meeting them on the beach. Tanner refers to Ainne Naylor as 'Oryna' .

All imo.
Mr Naylor worked at "Landsbanki Securities" at the time and later at "The Matrix group".
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Joe Rider is a video game guru.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


I think Rider had an office in the same building as Landsbanki where R Naylor worked in 2007.
This "beach statement",Was it Jane who also mentioned something about a person she thought was called "Rob"?
According to "Kiko" did Naylors and Tanner/O'Brien knew each other through sailing.
JT statement May 10th.

2 May...... she went to the beach where she met DP and FP. She and other members of the group made the aquaintence of, in the course of their tennis lessons, a lady called O. The deponents husband ROB, also knew the lady's husband named Rob from windsurfing classes. The couple Rob and O were also guests at the complex. That morning having been to her daughters tennis class, the deponent went to the beach meeting ROB there. From what she knows the couple, Rob and O, have two children ( a girl of three and a younger child not knowing whether boy or girl)She think they were Londoners. Just Normal people'.
Thank you.
JT is a bad actor,just like the others, she pretended she did not know Naylors when she talked to the police, why? 
Something is really fishy here.

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Goncalo Amaral: "Then there's the window we found Kate's finger prints.
She said she had never touched that window and the cleaning lady assured that she had cleaned it on the previous day....it doesn't add up"
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Post by Hicks 26.10.14 21:49

Exactly NickE.

Hardly likely JT and her partner would go and meet the Naylor's ( people she had only met a few days before) on the beach. I bet they were all well acquainted.

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Post by HelenMeg 26.10.14 22:10

This is really interesting - again I really think all of these people were bonded together by something - some activity
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Post by NickE 26.10.14 22:26

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:This is really interesting - again I really think all of these people were bonded together by something - some activity
Yes it is, we just have to figure out what it is, if we do, we might have a motive for the cover-up.

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Goncalo Amaral: "Then there's the window we found Kate's finger prints.
She said she had never touched that window and the cleaning lady assured that she had cleaned it on the previous day....it doesn't add up"
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Post by Hicks 26.10.14 22:34

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:This is really interesting - again I really think all of these people were bonded together by something - some activity
Yes it is, we just have to figure out what it is, if we do, we might have a motive for the cover-up.
Money? Sex? Fame? Political ambitions? Not necessarily in that order.

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Post by sharonl 26.10.14 22:49

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Lets go out on a tangent for a moment and assume that we are on the right track in that the Naylor's, Joe Rider and his partner were involved. What would bind them? why would both couples be complicit in covering up for the McCann's? Swinging maybe?

I have read elsewhere that it is possible that Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien already knew the Naylor's.

JT mentions something about the Naylor's in her statement. Something about meeting them on the beach. Tanner refers to Ainne Naylor as 'Oryna' .

All imo.
Mr Naylor worked at "Landsbanki Securities" at the time and later at "The Matrix group".
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Joe Rider is a video game guru.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


I think Rider had an office in the same building as Landsbanki where R Naylor worked in 2007.
This "beach statement",Was it Jane who also mentioned something about a person she thought was called "Rob"?
According to "Kiko" did Naylors and Tanner/O'Brien knew each other through sailing.
JT statement May 10th.

2 May...... she went to the beach where she met DP and FP. She and other members of the group made the aquaintence of, in the course of their tennis lessons, a lady called O. The deponents husband ROB, also knew the lady's husband named Rob from windsurfing classes. The couple Rob and O were also guests at the complex. That morning having been to her daughters tennis class, the deponent went to the beach meeting ROB there. From what she knows the couple, Rob and O, have two children ( a girl of three and a younger child not knowing whether boy or girl)She think they were Londoners. Just Normal people'.

In your link Joe Rider appears to be a director of Magma Ignite. I have looked him up as a director and found nothing. Also, there are two companies registered at companies in October 2010, Magna Ignite and Magna Ignite Digital, both dormant and neither of which he appears to have ever been a director. Can anyone shed any light on this?
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Post by Rob Royston 27.10.14 0:30

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Lets go out on a tangent for a moment and assume that we are on the right track in that the Naylor's, Joe Rider and his partner were involved. What would bind them? why would both couples be complicit in covering up for the McCann's?
Maybe these two couples were not complicit in covering up for the McCanns. They could have been complicit in the original plan. If the couple with the assumed "sub" daughter were delivered to a car with UK plates by the taxi, then it is most likely that they arrived from the UK by car. Was this so that they could slip away to Spain before the alarm was raised at PDL as the timing seems to suggest.
It also follows that when they arrived, or when they left their car at the Hotel Apolo, they must have been transported to their accommodation at PDL. Was the third man the person who arranged the accommodation and drove them from there to PDL, and back to Monte Gordo on the 3rd May to transfer to a taxi for the short trip to the hotel?
It would suggest that the "sub" would need to have been part of the plan from the beginning? Was Maddie to be taken away early in the week but the alarm was not to happen until the Thursday night?
It is quite possible that the "sub's" parents were unaware that there had been a "disaster".
All IMO of course.
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Post by Joss 27.10.14 4:09

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:This is really interesting - again I really think all of these people were bonded together by something - some activity
Yes it is, we just have to figure out what it is, if we do, we might have a motive for the cover-up.
Money? Sex? Fame? Political ambitions? Not necessarily in that order.
I definitely think money & fame as we have already seen that play/ing out. I think certain people in this case sold their souls for that. The sex part i don't know, but politics in this case is also involved. I read elsewhere that this case is a code for something, and when we look at all the players involved that could well be. In my personal opinion there are definitely big cover ups going on and have been right from the start. Some people have discussed microchipping, but i don't think its that. I guess we will see how it all pans out.
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Post by NickE 27.10.14 5:36

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Lets go out on a tangent for a moment and assume that we are on the right track in that the Naylor's, Joe Rider and his partner were involved. What would bind them? why would both couples be complicit in covering up for the McCann's? Swinging maybe?

I have read elsewhere that it is possible that Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien already knew the Naylor's.

JT mentions something about the Naylor's in her statement. Something about meeting them on the beach. Tanner refers to Ainne Naylor as 'Oryna' .

All imo.
Mr Naylor worked at "Landsbanki Securities" at the time and later at "The Matrix group".
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Joe Rider is a video game guru.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


I think Rider had an office in the same building as Landsbanki where R Naylor worked in 2007.
This "beach statement",Was it Jane who also mentioned something about a person she thought was called "Rob"?
According to "Kiko" did Naylors and Tanner/O'Brien knew each other through sailing.
JT statement May 10th.

2 May...... she went to the beach where she met DP and FP. She and other members of the group made the aquaintence of, in the course of their tennis lessons, a lady called O. The deponents husband ROB, also knew the lady's husband named Rob from windsurfing classes. The couple Rob and O were also guests at the complex. That morning having been to her daughters tennis class, the deponent went to the beach meeting ROB there. From what she knows the couple, Rob and O, have two children ( a girl of three and a younger child not knowing whether boy or girl)She think they were Londoners. Just Normal people'.

In your link Joe Rider appears to be a director of Magma Ignite.  I have looked him up as a director and found nothing.  Also, there are two companies registered at companies in October 2010, Magna Ignite and Magna Ignite Digital, both dormant and neither of which he appears to have ever been a director.  Can anyone shed any light on this?  
He is also involved in the "Lionhead Studios" [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I do not know how it works in the video game industry. 
Are they employees in one company and become consultants in a game project?

Here he is 2006
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2012:http://www.gamestm.co.uk/discuss/fable-and-xbox-360-killed-lionheads-b-c-says-developer/
unt zu weiter.....  
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Goncalo Amaral: "Then there's the window we found Kate's finger prints.
She said she had never touched that window and the cleaning lady assured that she had cleaned it on the previous day....it doesn't add up"
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Post by Atomic Peanut 27.10.14 9:02

I don't understand how a pre-planned fake abduction involving a bogus lookalike, who has been standing in for the real child all week, could work
Once you have carried it out, and the lookalike has been whisked off home, you are still left with the real one. What then?
On the other hand, if the real one has met some fate earlier in the week, thus leading to the plan, it's a bit of a coincidence that there's another similar-looking child with the same name, whose family are friends with the real one's family, who just happens to be on holiday at the same resort, isn't it?
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Post by HelenMeg 27.10.14 9:59

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I don't understand how a pre-planned fake abduction involving a bogus lookalike, who has been standing in for the real child all week, could work
Once you have carried it out, and the lookalike has been whisked off home, you are still left with the real one. What then?
On the other hand, if the real one has met some fate earlier in the week, thus leading to the plan, it's a bit of a coincidence that there's another similar-looking child with the same name, whose family are friends with the real one's family, who just happens to be on holiday at the same resort, isn't it?
I cannot believe in the "pre-planned fake abduction involving a bogus lookalike"  but I can believe in the real Madeleine meeting a tragic fate and then, due to a need to cover up her death so that other activities are not  exposed, they use another girl  to hide the time of death...
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Crèche signatures revisited - Page 3 Empty Re: Crèche signatures revisited

Post by AndyB 27.10.14 10:36

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I don't understand how a pre-planned fake abduction involving a bogus lookalike, who has been standing in for the real child all week, could work
Once you have carried it out, and the lookalike has been whisked off home, you are still left with the real one. What then?
On the other hand, if the real one has met some fate earlier in the week, thus leading to the plan, it's a bit of a coincidence that there's another similar-looking child with the same name, whose family are friends with the real one's family, who just happens to be on holiday at the same resort, isn't it?
I cannot believe in the "pre-planned fake abduction involving a bogus lookalike"  but I can believe in the real Madeleine meeting a tragic fate and then, due to a need to cover up her death so that other activities are not  exposed, they use another girl  to hide the time of death...
Why would the other parents agree to allow their daughter to be involved in it?
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AndyB

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