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Calpol (or was it Alcohol ?)

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Calpol (or was it Alcohol ?)

Post by Grande Finale on 15.09.14 16:17

A lot has been written about Maddie being sedated by the parents, and Calpol has been mentioned. There was recently a case though where a nursery teacher was caught sedating children with wine.

This has made me wonder if Maddie was sedated with alchohol as this was easily the most available drug.


According to their accounts, they left wine and beer in their apartment.
They also admit that Maddie could leave her bed and wander around.
So what if Maddie discovered the alcohol whilst wandering around and drank it ?


BELOW is two of KM's Statements.


*(they sat on one of the sofas in the living room, she doesn’t know which one. She had a glass of wine, poured by Gerry, and he had wine or beer. The wine was from New Zealand, white.)

"I thought she must have wandered through to our bedroom and maybe that would have explained why the door was open. So I went into our bedroom and she wasn’t there"*



Is this "within the bounds of responsible parenting" to leave a three year old for hours on end with access to alcohol ?

Was Maddie sedated with alchohol in an attempt to keep her quiet ?

If Maddie then had an accident, what would be the outcome if quantities of alchohol were discovered in her system ?

They wouldn't be able to seek medical assistance would they ?, and if she subsequently died, would they have to consider disposing of the body ?.  
 
 
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Re: Calpol (or was it Alcohol ?)

Post by joyce1938 on 15.09.14 16:28

I just cant imagine any scenario where you would choose to get rid of your childs body,no not for overdose or booze taken ,none at all really ,would have to do what should be done and admit a terrible mistake had taken place with our child . I guess the only one that might make you think ,,OH THIS CAN NOT GET OUT ,IS the one we don't like to talk about . Such sadness to think she is no longer around . joyce1938
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Re: Calpol (or was it Alcohol ?)

Post by palm tree on 15.09.14 17:49

Sedation or alcohol could be explained by accident, could happen even within a few minutes of your back turned. No, something far worse must have happened that accounted for not calling emergency services.
IMO

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Re: Calpol (or was it Alcohol ?)

Post by Okeydokey on 15.09.14 21:23

Dosing with whisky is an old Scottish method of quietening a baby. Normally diluted of course but a colleague of mine once confessed to not realising you had to dilute the whisky and having in that way rendered his baby very comatose. He made a joke of it...not sure he would now.

It seems unlikely doctors wouldn't realise the dangers but who knows...in theory it would certainly be a reason not to call the authorities.

Would a nearly 4 year old drink a bottle of wine? Possibly, if it was very sweet I think and if she was very thirsty...


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Re: Calpol (or was it Alcohol ?)

Post by j.rob on 17.09.14 10:01

@Grande Finale wrote:A lot has been written about Maddie being sedated by the parents, and Calpol has been mentioned. There was recently a case though where a nursery teacher was caught sedating children with wine.

This has made me wonder if Maddie was sedated with alchohol as this was easily the most available drug.


According to their accounts, they left wine and beer in their apartment.
They also admit that Maddie could leave her bed and wander around.
So what if Maddie discovered the alcohol whilst wandering around and drank it ?


BELOW is two of KM's Statements.


*(they sat on one of the sofas in the living room, she doesn’t know which one. She had a glass of wine, poured by Gerry, and he had wine or beer. The wine was from New Zealand, white.)

"I thought she must have wandered through to our bedroom and maybe that would have explained why the door was open. So I went into our bedroom and she wasn’t there"*



Is this "within the bounds of responsible parenting" to leave a three year old for hours on end with access to alcohol ?

Was Maddie sedated with alchohol in an attempt to keep her quiet ?

If Maddie then had an accident, what would be the outcome if quantities of alchohol were discovered in her system ?

They wouldn't be able to seek medical assistance would they ?, and if she subsequently died, would they have to consider disposing of the body ?.  
 
 


Calpol isn't really a sedative as such. I suppose an over-dose of it might make a child drowsy. But I presume if you wanted to render a child semi-conscious, very drowsy or even comatose there would be much more effective methods. And doctors would know all about that. Especially anesthetists. 

But Kate writes about 'the abductor' quite possibly sedating both Madeleine and the twins in her book on two consecutive evenings/days. The Wednesday evening when Kate alleges that Madeleine woke up when Sean was crying and then the following day asked why her parents didn't come. And Kate also writes about finding a stain on Madeleine's pajama top which she cannot account for. And she washes the top. I have always presumed that this implies that 'the abductor' tried to give Madeleine some kind of sedative but she woke up. As both Madeleine and Sean had been disturbed, the abductor fled empty handed.

Kate writes that Madeleine was very tired on Thursday and suggests this could be due to 'the abductor' attempting to sedate, or partially sedate Madeleine on either the Wednesday evening or even some time in the day on Thursday. Quite how 'the abductor' would have had access to Madeleine during the day on Thursday, given that she was always allegedly either with her parents or at the kids' club, is unclear.

It is these little things that continually trip Kate up. An 'abductor' could NOT have had access to Madeleine during the day on Thursday in order to sedate her if Kate's account of what Madeleine was doing that day is true. The only way this could have happened is if 'the abductor' had been someone 'on the inside'. Someone who had direct and unrestricted access to Madeleine. So, unless Kate is implying that one of the creche staff sedated Madeleine during the day on Thursday, that only leaves either the McCann parents or one of their friends - David Payne for instance.

So thanks, Kate, for clearing that up. An 'insider job' as police knew from the moment they arrived, imo.

Then, according to Kate, 'the abductor' returns on Thursday evening and this time succeeds in 'stealing' Madeleine from her bed. Kate is adamant that Madeleine would not - indeed could not possibly - have wandered off herself. And she claims that the twins are lying in a strange position and she checks for 'some sign of life'. Kate writes that the twins remain in a deep sleep despite all the commotion and comings and goings on Thursday evening. So she thinks they might have been drugged by Madeleine's abductor. And Madeleine drugged too to facilitate her 'abduction'.

Kate also writes that Portuguese police did not do any toxicology tests on the twins. But the truth is that she and Gerry could easily have insisted on this. Or their friends. They deliberately delay any tests until months later when results will be useless. And also make sure that the twins have had their hair cut before tests are done.

Kate writes the most appalling drivel about how she 'wept' when the twins hair was taken for analysis when she must know that only a few strands are needed and it is an entirely noninvasive procedure, as far as I am aware. She just writes complete nonsense.

So, as far as I am concerned, both Madeleine and the twins were drugged on at least one occasion and probably more. The drugging on Thursday evening of the twins would have been to ensure that they did not wake up and become disturbed/terrified by what was going on.

See - they are thoughtful parents!

There could possibly have been a 'dry run' or even an abortive attempt the previous evening - Wednesday evening- as Kate helpfully points out in her book. So the twins could well have been sedated then too. And I suspect that one of the reason Kate alleges that Madeleine asked why they didn't come when Sean and her cried was to make it appear that all the children were NOT comatose on Wednesday evening and all were fine and non-drowsy on Thursday morning. Especially Madeleine who I suspect by Thursday morning was most certainly not 'full of beans.'

Madeleine I suspect was sedated on at least these two days and maybe more. It is very peculiar that there are no genuine photos of her from that holiday. Not from family/friends/the creche/no-one.

Only the footage of her boarding the plane and on the airport but (if, indeed it is her). 

The whole 'Calpol' thing is a bit of a red herring, imo. The Portuguese were kind of on the right tracks, in terms of the drugging/sedation issue but why would a group of doctors mess around with an over-the-counter relatively mild medicine (given that children must get overdoses of it all the time presumably without  severe/lethal consequences) when they would have the full arsenal of sedation medicament and methods at their disposal? Especially if you are trained in anesthetics. 

TM managed to de-rail a good line of inquiry by splitting hairs about Calpol not being a sedative etc. Which is typical of their modus operandi.

Such a shame that the twins were not tested shortly after 'the abduction' which they almost certainly would have been if this odious couple and their friends had not enjoyed some kind of 'special protection.' If they had not been privileged  in this way, the twins would have been examined and tested. And this could well have yielded extremely useful clues as to what really happened during that fateful week. 

I suppose alcohol could have been part of a cocktail. As you say whiskey has been used to 'calm' babies/young children. But I think TM were taking no risks with children waking up. 

A theory only, as always. 

It is intriguing that Kate mentions where the wine was from. Everything for a reason.

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Re: Calpol (or was it Alcohol ?)

Post by j.rob on 17.09.14 10:31

@joyce1938 wrote:I just cant imagine any scenario where you would choose to get rid of your childs body,no not for overdose or booze taken ,none at all really ,would have to do what should be done and admit a terrible mistake had taken place with our child . I guess the only one that might make you think ,,OH THIS CAN NOT GET OUT ,IS the one we don't like to talk about . Such sadness to think she is no longer around . joyce1938

Check out the 'normal family scene chez McCann' in the C4 'Madeleine was Here' series. The one where Gerry is shown arriving home on his bike. And Kate who is in the kitchen with the twins unlocks the kitchen door to let him in. Amelie is wearing the Snow White outfit I do believe. A similar outfit to the one that Madeleine is wearing in one of the home-videos of Madeleine before her disappearance that the McCann's released to the public.

Watch Gerry's  interactions with the twins, in particular Amelie. And take note of his body language and his eye contact.

This was one of my 'I need to lie down in a dark room' moments when it came to this case. aaagh

There is also footage of the twins playing in the garden with Kate and Gerry in an apparently 'normal family' type of situation. With Gerry kicking the football. I know this has been analysed a great deal on the 'comments on Cristobell's blog thread'. 

But it is mighty peculiar, imo, that even in allegedly 'normal' family situations that have been released for the public to scrutinize, the Mcs cannot/will not/chose not to interact in what, to my mind at least, is a 'normal' way with their remaining children.

All in my opinion only.

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Re: Calpol (or was it Alcohol ?)

Post by PeterMac on 17.09.14 12:29

And in the "Last Police Photo" we see on the table, not only the camera which they did NOT use to create the poster, but the one they DID use to take the Last Photo, and inexpicably failed to hand over to the police . . . .  see other threads,
but we also see

Da, dah !


TWO glasses, with clear or pale liquid.  The New Zealand wine was a Chardonnay IIRC, a white wine.
Of course it could be water, but there is no mention of Kate's book about water.


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Re: Calpol (or was it Alcohol ?)

Post by BlueBag on 17.09.14 12:37

I would say that's water Peter.

The colouring book without cover is on the table next to it.

I think they were drinking water whilst making out the two time lines.
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Re: Calpol (or was it Alcohol ?)

Post by kimHager on 19.09.14 18:57

Two washings and a good old shot of courage... or....in this case a good old glass of NZ wine to steal the nerves before showtime..... my opinion

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Re: Calpol (or was it Alcohol ?)

Post by kimHager on 19.09.14 18:59

That would be Kate being cleaned up bydouble washes none mentioned on Gerry who would be really sweaty after tennis right? Maybe GERRY wrote that part.?

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Re: Calpol (or was it Alcohol ?)

Post by palm tree on 20.09.14 21:30

Do I see an open map with a part cut out?

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Re: Calpol (or was it Alcohol ?)

Post by palm tree on 21.09.14 18:25

@PeterMac wrote:And in the "Last Police Photo" we see on the table, not only the camera which they did NOT use to create the poster, but the one they DID use to take the Last Photo, and inexpicably failed to hand over to the police . . . .  see other threads,
but we also see

Da, dah !


TWO glasses, with clear or pale liquid.  The New Zealand wine was a Chardonnay IIRC, a white wine.
Of course it could be water, but there is no mention of Kate's book about water.

Is that a map with a part cut out?

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