SMITHMAN 3 - The e-fits - two different people, or the same man?
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Looking at the two CrimeWatch e-fits again
Re: SMITHMAN 3 - The e-fits - two different people, or the same man?
by Woofer 16.10.14 23:12
Doug D wrote:Newintown:
‘The Smiths reported the sighting 2 days after the event, but it seems to have been lost inbetween all the other sightings that came in at the same time. I haven't got a link for it but there are many posts on this forum which have.’
Not sure that we know this to be correct. This story didn’t come out for 5 years or so, when it suddenly appeared in an Irish paper, followed I believe by the Mirror and it doesn’t correspond with Smith’s ‘revelation’ moment when his son suddenly (after a fortnight) suggested that they might have seen someone as they left the pub.
From Sky News:
‘Initially the Smith family thought nothing more of the encounter - and even the next day when the story broke they still didn't make the connection.
"We were home two weeks when my son rang me up and asked was he dreaming or did we meet a man carrying a child the night Madeleine was taken," said Mr Smith.’
"We all remembered the same recollection, and I felt we should report it to the police.
"We've all been beating ourselves up that we should have made the link sooner, if only we'd remembered the next day.
http://news.sky.com/story/593646/missing-madeleine-mccann-irish-witness-clears-murat
So no evidence of them having reported the sighting after two days and there is no mention of this in any of the three statements dated 26th May 2007.
eta. Sorry, I see Tony has already addressed this, but the Sky report still adds clarity I think,
Sky News got that wrong. Martin Smith`s statement admits he did make the connection the next day when his daughter phoned him from Ireland. He thought it could have been Maddie he had seen.
"Urged, states that when he passed this individual it would have been around 22H00, and at the time he was completely unaware that a child had disappeared. He only became aware of the disappearance of the child the next morning, through his daughter, L*****, in Ireland who had sent him a message or called him regarding what had happened. At this point he thought that MADELEINE could have been the child he saw with the individual. "
I believe he did report it to the PJ 2 days later as reported in the Mirror and an Irish newspaper - can`t find these now, but there is a link from months ago in a Smithman thread.
ETA - Irish Central link:-
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/irish-couple-key-witnesses-as-british-police-launch-new-enquiry-into-madeleine-mccann-case-227647711-237782841.html
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Re: SMITHMAN 3 - The e-fits - two different people, or the same man?
by tigger 17.10.14 7:10
Good thinking Woofs! Not the only thing Sky news got wrong - why let the truth stand in the way of a good story?
Which is why Brenda is dead.
I prefer the statements to any newspapers report.
Which is why Brenda is dead.
I prefer the statements to any newspapers report.
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Re: SMITHMAN 3 - The e-fits - two different people, or the same man?
by Guest 17.10.14 8:25
Is anyone able to ask the Smiths exactly what happened with these e-fits?
It's always better from the horses mouth.
It's always better from the horses mouth.
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Re: SMITHMAN 3 - The e-fits - two different people, or the same man?
by Doug D 17.10.14 10:18
Woofer:
‘I believe he did report it to the PJ 2 days later as reported in the Mirror and an Irish newspaper’
Tigger:
‘I prefer the statements to any newspapers report.’
Got to agree there Tigger, but there is no evidence of this, other than the newspaper reports, some 5 years later.
Wishful thinking, I believe.
If I was brought back to the Algarve to make a statement a few weeks after the event, the first thing I would say would be ‘But I reported this three weeks ago to ………………….’, not just:
‘At this point he thought that MADELEINE could have been the child he saw with the individual.’
Human nature, no?
Then there is the Sky News report of 4th February 2008
‘Initially the Smith family thought nothing more of the encounter - and even the next day when the story broke they still didn't make the connection.
"We were home two weeks when my son rang me up and asked was he dreaming or did we meet a man carrying a child the night Madeleine was taken," said Mr Smith.
"We all remembered the same recollection, and I felt we should report it to the police.
"We've all been beating ourselves up that we should have made the link sooner, if only we'd remembered the next day. But the Portuguese police said you see these things on holiday all the time."
The Smiths did contact the Portuguese police once they had returned to Ireland, but say they have had no contact with the officers investigating the case since May last year.
"I rang the Portuguese police and they took a statement from me on the phone," said Mr Smith.
They asked me to make a statement to the Gardai, which I did, and two days later Leicestershire police got on to us.
"My eldest son, Peter, my youngest daughter, Aoife, and I then flew to Luz to make a statement.
The phrase:
‘…….. But the Portuguese police said you see these things on holiday all the time."
adds credence to this report to me, as it is an unnecessary addition, unless it was really said to him as a comfort for not having reported the sighting earlier.
‘I believe he did report it to the PJ 2 days later as reported in the Mirror and an Irish newspaper’
Tigger:
‘I prefer the statements to any newspapers report.’
Got to agree there Tigger, but there is no evidence of this, other than the newspaper reports, some 5 years later.
Wishful thinking, I believe.
If I was brought back to the Algarve to make a statement a few weeks after the event, the first thing I would say would be ‘But I reported this three weeks ago to ………………….’, not just:
‘At this point he thought that MADELEINE could have been the child he saw with the individual.’
Human nature, no?
Then there is the Sky News report of 4th February 2008
‘Initially the Smith family thought nothing more of the encounter - and even the next day when the story broke they still didn't make the connection.
"We were home two weeks when my son rang me up and asked was he dreaming or did we meet a man carrying a child the night Madeleine was taken," said Mr Smith.
"We all remembered the same recollection, and I felt we should report it to the police.
"We've all been beating ourselves up that we should have made the link sooner, if only we'd remembered the next day. But the Portuguese police said you see these things on holiday all the time."
The Smiths did contact the Portuguese police once they had returned to Ireland, but say they have had no contact with the officers investigating the case since May last year.
"I rang the Portuguese police and they took a statement from me on the phone," said Mr Smith.
They asked me to make a statement to the Gardai, which I did, and two days later Leicestershire police got on to us.
"My eldest son, Peter, my youngest daughter, Aoife, and I then flew to Luz to make a statement.
The phrase:
‘…….. But the Portuguese police said you see these things on holiday all the time."
adds credence to this report to me, as it is an unnecessary addition, unless it was really said to him as a comfort for not having reported the sighting earlier.
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Re: SMITHMAN 3 - The e-fits - two different people, or the same man?
by Woofer 17.10.14 10:56
It`s such a jumble of contradicting reports isn`t it. I do remember that Martin Smith had to report some newspapers for giving wrong information, but it`s not known which newspapers. I think he did this via a solicitor.
There`s no way of knowing for sure. And I can see why TB has suspicions that not all adds up when Smiths have been reported as saying so many contradictory things.
I must admit I am thinking subjectively, and I want to believe the Smiths. I`m thinking how I would react, which is why I tend to believe that he did report it to the PJ 2 days later. But it`s only subjective - we`ll probably never know for sure.
There`s no way of knowing for sure. And I can see why TB has suspicions that not all adds up when Smiths have been reported as saying so many contradictory things.
I must admit I am thinking subjectively, and I want to believe the Smiths. I`m thinking how I would react, which is why I tend to believe that he did report it to the PJ 2 days later. But it`s only subjective - we`ll probably never know for sure.
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Re: SMITHMAN 3 - The e-fits - two different people, or the same man?
by aiyoyo 17.10.14 11:21
The 2 e-fits are very different.
As a public member looking at them without pre-knowledge of anything I conclude they are two different men.
It perplexes me how a family who could not see the man clearly could have come up with two different images. For one thing you would have thought the artist drawing it up with their help would have asked them to come to a consensus to narrow it down to one e-fit that they can agree on.
The other thing is, if Mr Smith was 60-80% certain it was Gerry, and having been bombarded with Gerry's image regularly in the press and media, how on earth can he then come up with an image of a man radically different looking to Gerry when his perception of the man is already that of Gerry, knowing what Gerry looks like.
There's no way to reconcile either of the 2-fits with Gerry. Some people are of the view one of the e-fits resembles Gerry, but that is subjective. I wonder if people's view is perhaps influenced (or rather clouded) by Smith high percentage quantifying of the man to be Gerry. Had Smith not stated that, would people still see the e-fits as resembling Gerry?
My view is that precisely because the two images look nothing like Gerry, that is why OG are seeking info on the e-fits. Had they seen the resemblance or believed either of the e-fits to be Gerry, why beat round the bush?
As a public member looking at them without pre-knowledge of anything I conclude they are two different men.
It perplexes me how a family who could not see the man clearly could have come up with two different images. For one thing you would have thought the artist drawing it up with their help would have asked them to come to a consensus to narrow it down to one e-fit that they can agree on.
The other thing is, if Mr Smith was 60-80% certain it was Gerry, and having been bombarded with Gerry's image regularly in the press and media, how on earth can he then come up with an image of a man radically different looking to Gerry when his perception of the man is already that of Gerry, knowing what Gerry looks like.
There's no way to reconcile either of the 2-fits with Gerry. Some people are of the view one of the e-fits resembles Gerry, but that is subjective. I wonder if people's view is perhaps influenced (or rather clouded) by Smith high percentage quantifying of the man to be Gerry. Had Smith not stated that, would people still see the e-fits as resembling Gerry?
My view is that precisely because the two images look nothing like Gerry, that is why OG are seeking info on the e-fits. Had they seen the resemblance or believed either of the e-fits to be Gerry, why beat round the bush?
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Re: SMITHMAN 3 - The e-fits - two different people, or the same man?
by viaveritasvita 17.10.14 11:32
Markus 2 wrote:Send me a 'pm'. Please don't be offended if I say no to anyone as I am only willing to share this with people who can demonstrate that they can be trusted. I WOULD NOT WANT TO PM YOU TONY CANT SPEAK FOR ANYONE ELSE THOUGH, HOW DO WE KNOW YOU CAN BE TRUSTED.
Brenda Ryan anyone?
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Re: SMITHMAN 3 - The e-fits - two different people, or the same man?
by aiyoyo 17.10.14 11:50
Shit stirring is visiting us !
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Re: SMITHMAN 3 - The e-fits - two different people, or the same man?
by viaveritasvita 17.10.14 12:04
If you can,t handle a few simple questions yoyo you are just as bad as Team McCann.aiyoyo wrote:Shit stirring is visiting us !
Maybe your leader is part of Team McCann .
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Re: SMITHMAN 3 - The e-fits - two different people, or the same man?
by plebgate 17.10.14 12:29
Even if Tony is part of TM why does that bother you? Don't want a reply from you really but are you by chance hoping that it will deter posters coming here and then maybe visiting another new site?
Who cares what you think. I shall continue posting here and asking QUESTIONS, if you don't like it, you know what you can do.
By the way, the meaning ofyour user name certainly doesn't seem to apply to you.
Bye bye.
Who cares what you think. I shall continue posting here and asking QUESTIONS, if you don't like it, you know what you can do.
By the way, the meaning ofyour user name certainly doesn't seem to apply to you.
Bye bye.
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Re: SMITHMAN 3 - The e-fits - two different people, or the same man?
by Doug D 17.10.14 13:04
Email sent from Joao Carlos Silva Pereira to Bernard Gattney, Irish Police:
8th November 2007
Subject: Martin Smith
Bernard ,
According to our phone contact, I hereby enclose the report on Martin Smith, son of P S and C S, born in Ireland on *****, and an Irish citizen, passport n' *****, home address*****.
Following the enclosed report you are now kindly requested to ask him the following questions:
- Does he confirm the statement he made in Portugal on May 26th 2007?
- Can he describe in detail the individual he saw carrying a child on May 3rd 2007, notwithstanding the fact that he has already made this description in his previous statements? Was this individual alone?
- When and in what mass medium has he seen the news of Gerald McCann going down the plane stairs, and carrying one of his children? (If possible he should be shown the above-mentioned pictures, as well as asked whether he confirms or disconfirms this man was the same individual he saw on May 3rd 2007).
- Was it really Gerry McCann? Is he sure of this fact?
- Does he recognise Gerald McCann from the facial features or from the way he was carrying the child?
- Are his family members, namely the ones who were with him on May 3rd 2007, able to recognise the individual? If yes, do they also identify the individual as being Gerald McCann? (If yes, such family members should also be interviewed with a view to equally answering the above questions).
The only response to this appears to be the one from Liam Hogan, with MS new statement, in January 2008, which does not directly address the first highlighted question, but implies that the recognition was from the manner of carrying.
On the basis that there are no further statements from other members of the Smith family, I think we can take it as confirmed that the answer to the second highlighted question must have been ‘no’, as this would effectively confirm what MS himself said:
‘During that time I spoke to all my family members who were with me on the night of 3rd May 2007 about this and the only one who felt the same way as me was my wife. She had seen the video clip of Gerard McCann walking down the stairs of the plane earlier that day. We did not discuss this until some days later.’
8th November 2007
Subject: Martin Smith
Bernard ,
According to our phone contact, I hereby enclose the report on Martin Smith, son of P S and C S, born in Ireland on *****, and an Irish citizen, passport n' *****, home address*****.
Following the enclosed report you are now kindly requested to ask him the following questions:
- Does he confirm the statement he made in Portugal on May 26th 2007?
- Can he describe in detail the individual he saw carrying a child on May 3rd 2007, notwithstanding the fact that he has already made this description in his previous statements? Was this individual alone?
- When and in what mass medium has he seen the news of Gerald McCann going down the plane stairs, and carrying one of his children? (If possible he should be shown the above-mentioned pictures, as well as asked whether he confirms or disconfirms this man was the same individual he saw on May 3rd 2007).
- Was it really Gerry McCann? Is he sure of this fact?
- Does he recognise Gerald McCann from the facial features or from the way he was carrying the child?
- Are his family members, namely the ones who were with him on May 3rd 2007, able to recognise the individual? If yes, do they also identify the individual as being Gerald McCann? (If yes, such family members should also be interviewed with a view to equally answering the above questions).
The only response to this appears to be the one from Liam Hogan, with MS new statement, in January 2008, which does not directly address the first highlighted question, but implies that the recognition was from the manner of carrying.
On the basis that there are no further statements from other members of the Smith family, I think we can take it as confirmed that the answer to the second highlighted question must have been ‘no’, as this would effectively confirm what MS himself said:
‘During that time I spoke to all my family members who were with me on the night of 3rd May 2007 about this and the only one who felt the same way as me was my wife. She had seen the video clip of Gerard McCann walking down the stairs of the plane earlier that day. We did not discuss this until some days later.’
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Re: SMITHMAN 3 - The e-fits - two different people, or the same man?
by viaveritasvita 17.10.14 13:26
It bothers me because if TB is part of Team McCann then he has been party to a campaign to prevent justice for MBM .plebgate wrote:Even if Tony is part of TM why does that bother you? Don't want a reply from you really but are you by chance hoping that it will deter posters coming here and then maybe visiting another new site?
Who cares what you think. I shall continue posting here and asking QUESTIONS, if you don't like it, you know what you can do.
By the way, the meaning ofyour user name certainly doesn't seem to apply to you.
Bye bye.
Is that not what this is about?
Are you simply here to pay homage to TB?
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Re: SMITHMAN 3 - The e-fits - two different people, or the same man?
by aiyoyo 17.10.14 13:51
viaveritasvita wrote:
Maybe your leader is part of Team McCann .
Oh, so you see him as a leader. Good for you.
It shows you admire him.
It shows you know he did more than you.
It shows you know he has followers which is damn sight more than you, and you are but a mere follower.
You are so fascinated by him you confer the title of leader on him.
I bet you kow tow to him even in your sleep.
Why don't you ask Kate & Gerry to answer your question if you are so desperate to know?
They won't tell you ? Oh dear ! Or you won't trust their answer since they are chronic liars ?
Go on dreaming for an answer, it will come. A voice in your head will whisper the answer to you.
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Re: SMITHMAN 3 - The e-fits - two different people, or the same man?
by Liz Eagles 17.10.14 13:52
Oh sod off. Go play games on other forums....ooh I forgot Cristobell's blogs are no longer about Bennett-gate and the new break away forum no longer has an outlet for the disgruntled to crucify Tony Bennett.viaveritasvita wrote:It bothers me because if TB is part of Team McCann then he has been party to a campaign to prevent justice for MBM .plebgate wrote:Even if Tony is part of TM why does that bother you? Don't want a reply from you really but are you by chance hoping that it will deter posters coming here and then maybe visiting another new site?
Who cares what you think. I shall continue posting here and asking QUESTIONS, if you don't like it, you know what you can do.
By the way, the meaning ofyour user name certainly doesn't seem to apply to you.
Bye bye.
Is that not what this is about?
Are you simply here to pay homage to TB?
I am perfectly capable of thinking for myself as are most people.
Just sod off.
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Re: SMITHMAN 3 - The e-fits - two different people, or the same man?
by viaveritasvita 17.10.14 14:08
aiyoyo wrote:viaveritasvita wrote:
Maybe your leader is part of Team McCann .
Oh, so you see him as a leader. Good for you.
It shows you admire him.
It shows you know he did more than you.
It shows you know he has followers which is damn sight more than you, and you are but a mere follower.
You are so fascinated by him you confer the title of leader on him.
I bet you kow tow to him even in your sleep.
Why don't you ask Kate & Gerry to answer your question if you are so desperate to know?
They won't tell you ? Oh dear ! Or you won't trust their answer since they are chronic liars ?
Go on dreaming for an answer, it will come. A voice in your head will whisper the answer to you.
So yoyo anyone in your opinion who disagrees with TB must be working for the McCanns.
Last vestiges of a scoundrel when you have no defence label the poster a pro McC.
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Re: SMITHMAN 3 - The e-fits - two different people, or the same man?
by viaveritasvita 17.10.14 14:10
aquila wrote:Oh sod off. Go play games on other forums....ooh I forgot Cristobell's blogs are no longer about Bennett-gate and the new break away forum no longer has an outlet for the disgruntled to crucify Tony Bennett.viaveritasvita wrote:It bothers me because if TB is part of Team McCann then he has been party to a campaign to prevent justice for MBM .plebgate wrote:Even if Tony is part of TM why does that bother you? Don't want a reply from you really but are you by chance hoping that it will deter posters coming here and then maybe visiting another new site?
Who cares what you think. I shall continue posting here and asking QUESTIONS, if you don't like it, you know what you can do.
By the way, the meaning ofyour user name certainly doesn't seem to apply to you.
Bye bye.
Is that not what this is about?
Are you simply here to pay homage to TB?
I am perfectly capable of thinking for myself as are most people.
Just sod off.
You seem to have issues with Cristobell .What has TB saying the MET are lying got to do with Cristobell?
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Re: SMITHMAN 3 - The e-fits - two different people, or the same man?
by Liz Eagles 17.10.14 14:12
I've only said sod off twice....so thrice I say...sod off.viaveritasvita wrote:aquila wrote:Oh sod off. Go play games on other forums....ooh I forgot Cristobell's blogs are no longer about Bennett-gate and the new break away forum no longer has an outlet for the disgruntled to crucify Tony Bennett.viaveritasvita wrote:It bothers me because if TB is part of Team McCann then he has been party to a campaign to prevent justice for MBM .plebgate wrote:Even if Tony is part of TM why does that bother you? Don't want a reply from you really but are you by chance hoping that it will deter posters coming here and then maybe visiting another new site?
Who cares what you think. I shall continue posting here and asking QUESTIONS, if you don't like it, you know what you can do.
By the way, the meaning ofyour user name certainly doesn't seem to apply to you.
Bye bye.
Is that not what this is about?
Are you simply here to pay homage to TB?
I am perfectly capable of thinking for myself as are most people.
Just sod off.
You seem to have issues with Cristobell .What has TB saying the MET are lying got to do with Cristobell?
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Re: SMITHMAN 3 - The e-fits - two different people, or the same man?
by viaveritasvita 17.10.14 14:22
Why doesn,t someone give that other idiot SharonL a kick at the care home and get me banned or has she jumped ship as well?
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Re: SMITHMAN 3 - The e-fits - two different people, or the same man?
by viaveritasvita 17.10.14 14:34
aquila wrote:I've only said sod off twice....so thrice I say...sod off.viaveritasvita wrote:aquila wrote:Oh sod off. Go play games on other forums....ooh I forgot Cristobell's blogs are no longer about Bennett-gate and the new break away forum no longer has an outlet for the disgruntled to crucify Tony Bennett.viaveritasvita wrote:It bothers me because if TB is part of Team McCann then he has been party to a campaign to prevent justice for MBM .plebgate wrote:Even if Tony is part of TM why does that bother you? Don't want a reply from you really but are you by chance hoping that it will deter posters coming here and then maybe visiting another new site?
Who cares what you think. I shall continue posting here and asking QUESTIONS, if you don't like it, you know what you can do.
By the way, the meaning ofyour user name certainly doesn't seem to apply to you.
Bye bye.
Is that not what this is about?
Are you simply here to pay homage to TB?
I am perfectly capable of thinking for myself as are most people.
Just sod off.
You seem to have issues with Cristobell .What has TB saying the MET are lying got to do with Cristobell?
Thrice ,what century are you in ?Pompous? toi?
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Re: SMITHMAN 3 - The e-fits - two different people, or the same man?
by Guest 17.10.14 14:39
Enough of this nonsense.
Guest- Guest
Re: SMITHMAN 3 - The e-fits - two different people, or the same man?
by Liz Eagles 17.10.14 14:41
Have you helped in anyway today with your posts in the search for justice for Madeleine McCann?viaveritasvita wrote:aquila wrote:I've only said sod off twice....so thrice I say...sod off.viaveritasvita wrote:aquila wrote:Oh sod off. Go play games on other forums....ooh I forgot Cristobell's blogs are no longer about Bennett-gate and the new break away forum no longer has an outlet for the disgruntled to crucify Tony Bennett.viaveritasvita wrote:It bothers me because if TB is part of Team McCann then he has been party to a campaign to prevent justice for MBM .plebgate wrote:Even if Tony is part of TM why does that bother you? Don't want a reply from you really but are you by chance hoping that it will deter posters coming here and then maybe visiting another new site?
Who cares what you think. I shall continue posting here and asking QUESTIONS, if you don't like it, you know what you can do.
By the way, the meaning ofyour user name certainly doesn't seem to apply to you.
Bye bye.
Is that not what this is about?
Are you simply here to pay homage to TB?
I am perfectly capable of thinking for myself as are most people.
Just sod off.
You seem to have issues with Cristobell .What has TB saying the MET are lying got to do with Cristobell?
Thrice ,what century are you in ?Pompous? toi?
What have you contributed to this forum today?
I'm not answering your posts again. I find you revolting.
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Re: SMITHMAN 3 - The e-fits - two different people, or the same man?
by viaveritasvita 17.10.14 14:44
How many pages of tripe has Bennett written about the Efits and deflected discussion on things that really matter in this case?
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Re: SMITHMAN 3 - The e-fits - two different people, or the same man?
by viaveritasvita 17.10.14 14:49
aquila wrote:Have you helped in anyway today with your posts in the search for justice for Madleine McCann?viaveritasvita wrote:aquila wrote:I've only said sod off twice....so thrice I say...sod off.viaveritasvita wrote:aquila wrote:Oh sod off. Go play games on other forums....ooh I forgot Cristobell's blogs are no longer about Bennett-gate and the new break away forum no longer has an outlet for the disgruntled to crucify Tony Bennett.viaveritasvita wrote:It bothers me because if TB is part of Team McCann then he has been party to a campaign to prevent justice for MBM .plebgate wrote:Even if Tony is part of TM why does that bother you? Don't want a reply from you really but are you by chance hoping that it will deter posters coming here and then maybe visiting another new site?
Who cares what you think. I shall continue posting here and asking QUESTIONS, if you don't like it, you know what you can do.
By the way, the meaning ofyour user name certainly doesn't seem to apply to you.
Bye bye.
Is that not what this is about?
Are you simply here to pay homage to TB?
I am perfectly capable of thinking for myself as are most people.
Just sod off.
You seem to have issues with Cristobell .What has TB saying the MET are lying got to do with Cristobell?
Thrice ,what century are you in ?Pompous? toi?
What have you contributed to this forum today?
I'm not answering your posts again. I find you revolting.
I find you contemptable.
The truth obout Cristobell was to much for you.
The truth hurts doesn,t it .
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Re: SMITHMAN 3 - The e-fits - two different people, or the same man?
by viaveritasvita 17.10.14 14:51
BlueBag wrote:Enough of this nonsense.
Bawbag do you think the Met are lying to the esteemed Mr Bennett?
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Re: SMITHMAN 3 - The e-fits - two different people, or the same man?
by Mini Slueth 17.10.14 15:47
Will you please just SOD OFF.viaveritasvita wrote:BlueBag wrote:Enough of this nonsense.
Bawbag do you think the Met are lying to the esteemed Mr Bennett?
Can everyone just ignore this twat and just get back to what we do best.
Thanks
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