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Maddie`s left arm

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Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by Newintown on 13.09.14 19:16

@palm tree wrote:Must have been pretty hot or km arms has just came from Jamaica. titter
IMO

I was going to mention that but didn't want to add more confusion.  It is noticeable that there is a white line around the bottom of each sleeve of KM's black top, whether that is again photoshopping or suntan and her white bits are showing, who knows.

It has also been mentioned in another thread on this same topic that KM's head has been superimposed on someone else's body as the head looks out of proportion to the body, which I agree with.

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Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by inspirespirit on 13.09.14 19:31

you are seeing things that just aren't there.  That would take some super blinking photoshop expert to photoshop a women in, in that position, holding a child.   Her fingers are bent and that is why they look chopped off.

Depending on the lighting in the kitchen, there would be shadows.

And lastly..... Why?     She is 2 there.  What has it got to do with anything remotely to do with her disappearance?
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Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by Guest on 13.09.14 19:39

Just doesn't look right to me,I've taken a pethora over the years of crap family photos to know when a supposed good un  doesn't look right.
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Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by palm tree on 13.09.14 19:46

@Newintown wrote:
@palm tree wrote:Must have been pretty hot or km arms has just came from Jamaica. titter
IMO

I was going to mention that but didn't want to add more confusion.  It is noticeable that there is a white line around the bottom of each sleeve of KM's black top, whether that is again photoshopping or suntan and her white bits are showing, who knows.

It has also been mentioned in another thread on this same topic that KM's head has been superimposed on someone else's body as the head looks out of proportion to the body, which I agree with.
If you put your thumb over km head and look at the body- it looks as though the body is standing straight up!
To me anyway. 
IMO

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Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by Synes on 13.09.14 20:15

A flash was used to take this indoor photo, hence the black marks (yes shadows, try looking into a flash they're friggin bright and cast very dark shadows in photographs), there are over and under exposed areas due to the limitations of capturing an image not due to photoshopping. M's arm looks odd because you can see the untanned under arm against the tanned forearm making the colour difference more pronounced.

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Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by Newintown on 13.09.14 20:28

@inspirespirit wrote:you are seeing things that just aren't there.  That would take some super blinking photoshop expert to photoshop a women in, in that position, holding a child.   Her fingers are bent and that is why they look chopped off.

Depending on the lighting in the kitchen, there would be shadows.

And lastly..... Why?     She is 2 there.  What has it got to do with anything remotely to do with her disappearance?

Maybe because Madeleine didn't live with the McCanns for most of her 3-4 years but was looked after by other people but the McCanns had to make it look as it she was at family parties and was part of the McCann "family" for their reputation and the press.  Why else would the PJ ask (in the 48 questions KM refused to answer) if KM was looking into giving Madeleine away to a family member:

Question 41, KM refused to answer:

41. Is it true that in England you even considered handing over Madeleine’s custody to a relative?

The PJ must have been given that information from someone, either a family member or an organisation such as social services for them to ask that particular question, don't you agree?

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Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by Newintown on 13.09.14 20:37

@Synes wrote:A flash was used to take this indoor photo, hence the black marks (yes shadows, try looking into a flash they're friggin bright and cast very dark shadows in photographs), there are over and under exposed areas due to the limitations of capturing an image not due to photoshopping. M's arm looks odd because you can see the untanned under arm against the tanned forearm making the colour difference more pronounced.

Was a flash used, you don't know?  Have you ever taken photos with white and black lines around them, I never have, either with a digital camera or a camera with film in it.

If M's arms were tanned why is her right arm completely white but her left arm (from KM's hand downwards) suntanned and a larger size?

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Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by inspirespirit on 13.09.14 21:35

You have made your mind up, so I don't think anything will change it.  I have photoshopped photographs before and it definitely doesn't look photoshopped to me, especially not a whole woman being photoshopped into it in that position.

I worry that these conspiracy theories regarding photos that were taken before the event, just muddies the water.  I bet the McCann team laugh their socks off and think this will make this lot look a right load of idiots  if it ever went to court.

Even if she spent most of her time with Aunts, Uncles, Grandparents, or Joe bloggs down the road, it doesn't mean she didn't spend time at home and photographs would have been taken.

That is a normal photograph of a kiddie being held up to blow out a couple of candles.  If it was anything like mine, I would put the candles on 2 or 3 times for them to blow it out and would have a party for the littlies and one for the adults.  Plenty of plates there so deffo a few folk there.

We need to start looking at what is important and stop spending so much times on something, that quite frankly, has no importance in the scheme of things.
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Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by MRNOODLES on 13.09.14 22:45

@inspirespirit wrote:You have made your mind up, so I don't think anything will change it.  I have photoshopped photographs before and it definitely doesn't look photoshopped to me, especially not a whole woman being photoshopped into it in that position.

I worry that these conspiracy theories regarding photos that were taken before the event, just muddies the water.  I bet the McCann team laugh their socks off and think this will make this lot look a right load of idiots  if it ever went to court.

Even if she spent most of her time with Aunts, Uncles, Grandparents, or Joe bloggs down the road, it doesn't mean she didn't spend time at home and photographs would have been taken.

That is a normal photograph of a kiddie being held up to blow out a couple of candles.  If it was anything like mine, I would put the candles on 2 or 3 times for them to blow it out and would have a party for the littlies and one for the adults.  Plenty of plates there so deffo a few folk there.

We need to start looking at what is important and stop spending so much times on something, that quite frankly, has no importance in the scheme of things.

I'd tend to agree, but the niggling thing I can't get my head around is the reflection of the icing when you'd think it would be masked by the plate. thinking
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Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by sallypelt on 13.09.14 22:56

@MRNOODLES wrote:
@inspirespirit wrote:You have made your mind up, so I don't think anything will change it.  I have photoshopped photographs before and it definitely doesn't look photoshopped to me, especially not a whole woman being photoshopped into it in that position.

I worry that these conspiracy theories regarding photos that were taken before the event, just muddies the water.  I bet the McCann team laugh their socks off and think this will make this lot look a right load of idiots  if it ever went to court.

Even if she spent most of her time with Aunts, Uncles, Grandparents, or Joe bloggs down the road, it doesn't mean she didn't spend time at home and photographs would have been taken.

That is a normal photograph of a kiddie being held up to blow out a couple of candles.  If it was anything like mine, I would put the candles on 2 or 3 times for them to blow it out and would have a party for the littlies and one for the adults.  Plenty of plates there so deffo a few folk there.

We need to start looking at what is important and stop spending so much times on something, that quite frankly, has no importance in the scheme of things.

I'd tend to agree, but the niggling thing I can't get my head around is the reflection of the icing when you'd think it would be masked by the plate. thinking

MrNOODLES, I have to agree with you. No way would the cake reflect on the counter if it's on a plate. Why is the decorative pink and blue icing reflecting, when it's on a plate??

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Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by MRNOODLES on 13.09.14 23:06

I've just showed my wife that picture to see what she thought. Who I might add hasn't looked into that case with any great depth, but thinks the Mcs has lot to answer for. Anyway nonchalantly she just said, "that don't look right, blue and pink icing, it looks like it's the twins cake. and the twins have been removed and Maddie put in".
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Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by MissesWillYa on 13.09.14 23:10

@MRNOODLES wrote:I've just showed my wife that picture to see what she thought.   Who I might add hasn't looked into that case with any great depth, but thinks the Mcs has lot to answer for.  Anyway nonchalantly she just said, "that don't look right, blue and pink icing, it looks like it's the twins cake.  and the twins have been removed and Maddie put in".

I think I agree with your wife. Though that leads to another question, if this is the twins' birthday cake. How in the world did they all get so tanned in England in February? Do we know of a family trip to sunnier climes around this point?
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Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by sallypelt on 13.09.14 23:27

It looks as if this photograph was taken on the same day in the same kitchen:

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1512969408/8of20.JPG

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Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by palm tree on 14.09.14 0:21

Outch, that left wrist looks sore IMO

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Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by canada12 on 14.09.14 0:40

Regarding the cake plate and the reflection... I'm one of the ones who believes some of the photos have been altered in one way or another. I used to believe the cake reflection was wrong, along with the fold on top of the dishtowel which I believed couldn't be reflected on the counter.

However I conducted an experiment, and I invite others to do the same. I got a large mirror and put it flat on a counter. I put a lid on it to replicate the plate, and I added another object to replicate the cake, and just to make it complete, I added some twisted toilet paper around the "cake" bottom to replicate the icing. Then I looked what was in the mirror. I changed my point of view a number of times, lowering my head and raising it, until I could see the same thing that was showing in the photo.

I was very embarrassed to have to admit that I could actually see the same thing that the photo shows - the icing, the cake, the whole thing. It's an anomaly of light rays and reflections and how we see light reflected.

I tried the same thing with the folded dish towel and I have to admit that the reflection again is accurate.

I'm a firm believer in testing things out, and because I was able to replicate this quite well, I had to change my opinion of this photo in particular. I invite you to try it yourselves and you'll get the same results.

That doesn't mean I don't believe other elements in the McCann collection of photos haven't been photoshopped. I remain convinced The Last Photo has been altered, as well as the Tennis Balls photo and the playground photo which shows Gerry with Madeleine in an impossible jumping position.

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Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by joyce1938 on 14.09.14 8:57

Looking at the cake again ,I think its not on  a plate but a glass dish ,that would also show the colours ,it just is not one plate but a bowl gglass dish as I can see it . please take another look ? joyce1938
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Maddies left arm

Post by .Guest.. on 14.09.14 9:19

Thanks all for your replies and comments on this, however it is becoming a repeated version of earlier threads regarding that particular photo which has been discussed at great length. Not my intention at the outset.
My original post was to ascertain if anyone else has noticed how many others have spotted the number of times MBM`s left arm has been altered and if they have noticed, why do they think that it had been done.
Inspirespirit asks what has the fact of whether the picture has been altered or not got to do with it so I would say this in reply. It has absolutely everything to do with it. It exposes (if proved to be altered) that lies are being told. It shows that we, the police and the media are being manipulated and it is (imo) hindering the whole operation. There are far too many other unexplained muddied waters in the form of confusing witness statements, dodgy timelines, libel cases etc for us to sit back and accept that this is a straightforward case of abduction. We may never hear the truth but if we don`t question what we see, we are not doing justice to that child.

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Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by bobbin on 14.09.14 9:19

@canada12 wrote:Regarding the cake plate and the reflection... I'm one of the ones who believes some of the photos have been altered in one way or another. I used to believe the cake reflection was wrong, along with the fold on top of the dishtowel which I believed couldn't be reflected on the counter.

However I conducted an experiment, and I invite others to do the same. I got a large mirror and put it flat on a counter. I put a lid on it to replicate the plate, and I added another object to replicate the cake, and just to make it complete, I added some twisted toilet paper around the "cake" bottom to replicate the icing. Then I looked what was in the mirror. I changed my point of view a number of times, lowering my head and raising it, until I could see the same thing that was showing in the photo.

I was very embarrassed to have to admit that I could actually see the same thing that the photo shows - the icing, the cake, the whole thing. It's an anomaly of light rays and reflections and how we see light reflected.

I tried the same thing with the folded dish towel and I have to admit that the reflection again is accurate.

I'm a firm believer in testing things out, and because I was able to replicate this quite well, I had to change my opinion of this photo in particular. I invite you to try it yourselves and you'll get the same results.

That doesn't mean I don't believe other elements in the McCann collection of photos haven't been photoshopped. I remain convinced The Last Photo has been altered, as well as the Tennis Balls photo and the playground photo which shows Gerry with Madeleine in an impossible jumping position.
So if the aunty's pinny, Maddie's socks and dress, the folders on the shelf behind Kate's head, the plates, the cake, the tea-towel, all reflect off the counter, WHY DON'T KATE'S black and white checkered trousers ALSO REFLECT.

I have asked this so many times and there has not yet been an answer that can explain why Kate's trousers are missing their own reflection.

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Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by .Guest.. on 14.09.14 9:28

@bobbin wrote:
@canada12 wrote:Regarding the cake plate and the reflection... I'm one of the ones who believes some of the photos have been altered in one way or another. I used to believe the cake reflection was wrong, along with the fold on top of the dishtowel which I believed couldn't be reflected on the counter.

However I conducted an experiment, and I invite others to do the same. I got a large mirror and put it flat on a counter. I put a lid on it to replicate the plate, and I added another object to replicate the cake, and just to make it complete, I added some twisted toilet paper around the "cake" bottom to replicate the icing. Then I looked what was in the mirror. I changed my point of view a number of times, lowering my head and raising it, until I could see the same thing that was showing in the photo.

I was very embarrassed to have to admit that I could actually see the same thing that the photo shows - the icing, the cake, the whole thing. It's an anomaly of light rays and reflections and how we see light reflected.

I tried the same thing with the folded dish towel and I have to admit that the reflection again is accurate.

I'm a firm believer in testing things out, and because I was able to replicate this quite well, I had to change my opinion of this photo in particular. I invite you to try it yourselves and you'll get the same results.

That doesn't mean I don't believe other elements in the McCann collection of photos haven't been photoshopped. I remain convinced The Last Photo has been altered, as well as the Tennis Balls photo and the playground photo which shows Gerry with Madeleine in an impossible jumping position.
So if the aunty's pinny, Maddie's socks and dress, the folders on the shelf behind Kate's head, the plates, the cake, the tea-towel, all reflect off the counter, WHY DON'T KATE'S black and white checkered trousers ALSO REFLECT.

I have asked this so many times and there has not yet been an answer that can explain why Kate's trousers are missing their own reflection.

Bobbin I agree with you and I think it is KM who has been shopped in because the original was maybe only of MBM and aunty which exposed the arm issue so something had to be put there to cover the alteration.

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Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by Guest on 14.09.14 9:42

anon357 wrote:Thanks all for your replies and comments on this, however it is becoming a repeated version of earlier threads regarding that particular photo which has been discussed at great length. Not my intention at the outset.
My original post was to ascertain if anyone else has noticed how many others have spotted the number of times MBM`s left arm has been altered and if they have noticed, why do they think that it had been done.
Inspirespirit asks what has the fact of whether the picture has been altered or not got to do with it so I would say this in reply. It has absolutely everything to do with it. It exposes (if proved to be altered) that lies are being told. It shows that we, the police and the media are being manipulated and it is (imo) hindering the whole operation. There are far too many other unexplained muddied waters in the form of confusing witness statements, dodgy timelines, libel cases etc for us to sit back and accept that this is a straightforward case of abduction. We may never hear the truth but if we don`t question what we see, we are not doing justice to that child.
I agree with anon,I've no doubt this photo and many others have been discussed before but I'm a newbie to the site and it takes an awful lot searching to find all relevant threads,but as a complete amateur in photography it just doesn't look right,the more experienced might be able to explain it away but maybe just maybe an untrained eye can notice more detail.
My case in point is the last photo at the pool side I've read the thread and with it being pointed out I still can't see the photoshopping,take a look at KM's eyeline in the birthday photo,I don't think she's looking at the cake any more than I am,of course just at the second of the photo being taken she might not be,but it looks staged.IMO
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Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by Synes on 14.09.14 9:54

Kate's trousers don't reflect because she is standing at an angle to the work top, the distance between stops her trousers being reflected, her top is reflected instead, it's all about angles and light and that goes for M's arm too, angles and light.
Photographs don't show things exactly as they are seen they are 2 dimensional

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Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by bobbin on 14.09.14 10:05

@Synes wrote:Kate's trousers don't reflect because she is standing at an angle to the work top, the distance between stops her trousers being reflected, her top is reflected instead, it's all about angles and light and that goes for M's arm too, angles and light.
Photographs don't show things exactly as they are seen they are 2 dimensional
Yes, I've seen this as an apologist's explanation before, but under a different poster's name.

However, your theory is faulted by the fact that Aunty's pinny shows its reflection, so Kate's trousers should do the same.

This type of photo--shopping thread always brings out an apparent 'pro-mccann' supporter slant, i.e. it tries to deny any photo-shopping, which of course would indicate some level of dishonesty or misrepresentation of the truth on the part of the mccs.

I agree with you it certainly is all about angles and light. It's also about the laws of 'physics', and that means that Aunty's pinny and Kate's trousers should be showing the same level of reflection... and they are NOT.

EDITED TO ADD.

If the files on the shelf behind Kate can be reflected in the work top, then so should Kate's trousers be. Her top is not so voluminous, nor so low on her hips as to be able to obscure the checks which SHOULD, relative to the other reflections, be VISIBLE as a reflection.

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Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by palm tree on 14.09.14 10:28

IMO, what I can see is km body standing straight up right, but further back from the counter. This could be why there's no reflection on the counter, but in this case, I'm more inclined to believe this is the reason km head has been dropped onto the body. Put your thumb over the head and just look at the body, I can see clearly the body further back and standing straight!
IMO anyways

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Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by inspirespirit on 14.09.14 10:30

@bobbin wrote:
@Synes wrote:Kate's trousers don't reflect because she is standing at an angle to the work top, the distance between stops her trousers being reflected, her top is reflected instead, it's all about angles and light and that goes for M's arm too, angles and light.
Photographs don't show things exactly as they are seen they are 2 dimensional
Yes, I've seen this as an apologist's explanation before, but under a different poster's name.

However, your theory is faulted by the fact that Aunty's pinny shows its reflection, so Kate's trousers should do the same.

This type of photo--shopping thread always brings out an apparent 'pro-mccann' supporter slant, i.e. it tries to deny any photo-shopping, which of course would indicate some level of dishonesty or misrepresentation of the truth on the part of the mccs.

I agree with you it certainly is all about angles and light. It's also about the laws of 'physics', and that means that Aunty's pinny and Kate's trousers should be showing the same level of reflection... and they are NOT.

EDITED TO ADD.

If the files on the shelf behind Kate can be reflected in the work top, then so should Kate's trousers be. Her top is not so voluminous, nor so low on her hips as to be able to obscure the checks which SHOULD, relative to the other reflections, be VISIBLE as a reflection.
Look again.  If what you are saying is true, then it should be the white kitchen CUPBOARD that is reflected in the worktop, and not the books !!!  It is all to do with angles and lights and shadows.  The fact the books from higher up are reflected, then it makes sense that it would be Kate's top that is reflected and as that is black, it wouldn't show.
I am not a pro-mcann, I just want to deal with facts and I don't think what they all did previous to that holiday has any bearing on what happened in PDL.
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Re: Maddie`s left arm

Post by palm tree on 14.09.14 11:00

Off topic I know, but has anyone noticed the Bluebag/ blue case on he unit behind km? Looks as though there's the stickers from a flight also. 
IMO

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