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Portuguese Geography

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Re: Portuguese Geography

Post by Markus 2 on 21.09.14 23:30

The tip-off was given by two key witnesses who were reinterviewed as part of the Yard’s two-year, £4.5million  investigation.
It is already known that Pamela Fenn, who lived directly above apartment 5a, heard a child, believed to be Madeleine, crying for about an hour on the evening of May 2.
She was so concerned she rang a friend in the village to ask what to do and considered ringing Portugal’s Policia Judiciaria.
At the time, Madeleine’s mother Kate and father Gerry were dining with friends at a tapas bar some 50 yards from the apartment

I wonder if this couple were alerted to Madeline via someone linked to the call Mrs Venn made to her friend and even then it could have been a friend of a friend who actually went to the apartment . Be interesting to know who they were. 

They then knew this was a likely pattern of the Kate and Gerry to leave their children .

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Re: Portuguese Geography

Post by j.rob on 21.09.14 23:43

@Markus 2 wrote:She might have died outside the apartment and then her body was brought back. I am not suggesting that TM are NOT involved in the disappearance. IMO they are. But I am simply suggesting that there might be wider networks operating, that is all.
Exactly,

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/400796/Mystery-couple-seen-going-into-McCanns-flat-on-night-before-sobbing-Madeleine-disappeared

Mystery couple seen going into McCanns’ flat on night before sobbing Madeleine disappeared

SCOTLAND YARD detectives are trying to find a middle-aged couple said to have entered Madeleine McCann’s holiday apartment to comfort her because she was crying, we can reveal today.





Now you would think they would have tried to find the parents ,or go back to the apartment the next day and tell them Madeline was in such a state that night. How could you leave a child like that if you had entered that apartment and found her  like that. Odd imo.


So are the mystery soothing couple that supposedly went into the apartment to soothe Madeleine on Wednesday evening the same as the couple that were woken up at 11.30pm by a friend of the McCanns and asked if they had a computer so they could get media involved?

Or a different couple? Maybe the couple that witnessed the 'soothing couple' going in to the apartment on Wednesday. The article is not entirely clear. If it is the same couple, and the 'soothing' story of Wednesday evening is true, how interesting that a friend of the McCanns called at their particular apartment asking for a computer. Surely it would have been more logical to try reception? I wonder what the Mc friend may have been trying to find out?

And whether the mystery soothing couple do have any links with Pamela Fenn. Maybe Mrs Fenn spoke to someone/people at the resort the following morning after the crying episode she heard on 2nd May. And some other people were on the alert. Aware that the McCann children were being left alone.

Who knows, maybe Mrs Fenn did phone OC reception or police? Or someone else did? Either that night or the following day/evening. 

Tuesday 2nd May - Mrs Fenn hears crying from the apartment for an hour and a quarter.
Wednesday 3rd May - a couple are reported to have entered the apartment to soothe a crying Madeleine.
Kate claims that at breakfast Madeleine asked why she and Gerry did not go to them when they cried the evening before.
Thursday 4th May - the McCanns claim Madeleine is abducted.

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Re: Portuguese Geography

Post by Markus 2 on 22.09.14 6:07

No it is not clear which couple they are.

Kate claims that at breakfast Madeleine asked why she and Gerry did not go to them when they cried the evening before. Kate  said she wondered if anyone had entered the apartment the night before she was taken and she wished she had questioned Madeline more .


I see this a fairly recent inquiry.  Wonder if they found them.
SCOTAND YARD detectives are trying to find a middle-aged couple said to have entered Madeleine McCann’s holiday apartment to comfort her because she was crying, we can reveal today.

It is believed they entered the bedroom on May 2, 2007, the evening before Madeleine disappeared from the Ocean Club at Praia da Luz on Portugal’s Algarve.
The tip-off was given by two key witnesses who were reinterviewed as part of the Yard’s two-year, £4.5million  investigation.

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Re: Portuguese Geography

Post by bobbin on 22.09.14 8:40

@j.rob wrote:
@Markus 2 wrote:She might have died outside the apartment and then her body was brought back. I am not suggesting that TM are NOT involved in the disappearance. IMO they are. But I am simply suggesting that there might be wider networks operating, that is all.
Exactly,

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/400796/Mystery-couple-seen-going-into-McCanns-flat-on-night-before-sobbing-Madeleine-disappeared

Mystery couple seen going into McCanns’ flat on night before sobbing Madeleine disappeared

SCOTLAND YARD detectives are trying to find a middle-aged couple said to have entered Madeleine McCann’s holiday apartment to comfort her because she was crying, we can reveal today.







Now you would think they would have tried to find the parents ,or go back to the apartment the next day and tell them Madeline was in such a state that night. How could you leave a child like that if you had entered that apartment and found her  like that. Odd imo.


So are the mystery soothing couple that supposedly went into the apartment to soothe Madeleine on Wednesday evening the same as the couple that were woken up at 11.30pm by a friend of the McCanns and asked if they had a computer so they could get media involved?

Or a different couple? Maybe the couple that witnessed the 'soothing couple' going in to the apartment on Wednesday. The article is not entirely clear. If it is the same couple, and the 'soothing' story of Wednesday evening is true, how interesting that a friend of the McCanns called at their particular apartment asking for a computer. Surely it would have been more logical to try reception? I wonder what the Mc friend may have been trying to find out?

And whether the mystery soothing couple do have any links with Pamela Fenn. Maybe Mrs Fenn spoke to someone/people at the resort the following morning after the crying episode she heard on 2nd May. And some other people were on the alert. Aware that the McCann children were being left alone.

Who knows, maybe Mrs Fenn did phone OC reception or police? Or someone else did? Either that night or the following day/evening. 

Tuesday 2nd May - Mrs Fenn hears crying from the apartment for an hour and a quarter.
Wednesday 3rd May - a couple are reported to have entered the apartment to soothe a crying Madeleine.
Kate claims that at breakfast Madeleine asked why she and Gerry did not go to them when they cried the evening before.
Thursday 4th May - the McCanns claim Madeleine is abducted.
hi j.rob, The dates above need to be corrected.
I know it's very confusing but Saturday was 28th April.
Sunday 29th.
Monday 30th April.
Tuesday 1st May.

Wednesday 2nd May.

Thursday 3rd May.

Tuesday 1st was the night Mrs. Fenn reported crying.
Wednesday 2nd is the day Kate and Gerry try to bring 'confusion' in and are mixing times and places up to create a magnificent broth of confusion.
Tuesday 1st is the date also when the gym mistress is supposed to have done the quiz and Gerry invited her to table and Kate may not have been there. According to Mrs. Fenn, the crying stopped the moment she heard the patio door either open or shut. Kate's phone made calls that evening from the pings/in or right by 5A.

For me, the crying event is important enough for the McCs to try to shift time and place.
This would have to indicate that either they 'knew' that Mrs. Fenn had reported it, or at least that 'someone' had reported it.
There has been the confusion as to which night if any, K and G were at Chaplins, late into the night, and if and how the OC had offered them child minding services, subsequent to the crying in parents' absence incident, given that someone is supposed to have gone looking for K and G at Chaplins ? to get them to go back to crying children.

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Re: Portuguese Geography

Post by HelenMeg on 22.09.14 9:47

I hope that this mystery couple are not being brought in as the potential abuctors - trying to save the crying girl by whisking her into a better life.

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Re: Portuguese Geography

Post by j.rob on 22.09.14 13:04

@Markus 2 wrote:She might have died outside the apartment and then her body was brought back. I am not suggesting that TM are NOT involved in the disappearance. IMO they are. But I am simply suggesting that there might be wider networks operating, that is all.
Exactly,

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/400796/Mystery-couple-seen-going-into-McCanns-flat-on-night-before-sobbing-Madeleine-disappeared

Mystery couple seen going into McCanns’ flat on night before sobbing Madeleine disappeared

SCOTLAND YARD detectives are trying to find a middle-aged couple said to have entered Madeleine McCann’s holiday apartment to comfort her because she was crying, we can reveal today.





Now you would think they would have tried to find the parents ,or go back to the apartment the next day and tell them Madeline was in such a state that night. How could you leave a child like that if you had entered that apartment and found her  like that. Odd imo.


On the other hand, if the parents are so neglectful that they leave their children alone at night, crying for long periods of time unattended, then perhaps whoever heard the crying/went in to check felt they needed to contact someone other than the parents?

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Re: Portuguese Geography

Post by j.rob on 22.09.14 14:01

@bobbin wrote:
@j.rob wrote:
@Markus 2 wrote:She might have died outside the apartment and then her body was brought back. I am not suggesting that TM are NOT involved in the disappearance. IMO they are. But I am simply suggesting that there might be wider networks operating, that is all.
Exactly,

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/400796/Mystery-couple-seen-going-into-McCanns-flat-on-night-before-sobbing-Madeleine-disappeared

Mystery couple seen going into McCanns’ flat on night before sobbing Madeleine disappeared

SCOTLAND YARD detectives are trying to find a middle-aged couple said to have entered Madeleine McCann’s holiday apartment to comfort her because she was crying, we can reveal today.









Now you would think they would have tried to find the parents ,or go back to the apartment the next day and tell them Madeline was in such a state that night. How could you leave a child like that if you had entered that apartment and found her  like that. Odd imo.


So are the mystery soothing couple that supposedly went into the apartment to soothe Madeleine on Wednesday evening the same as the couple that were woken up at 11.30pm by a friend of the McCanns and asked if they had a computer so they could get media involved?

Or a different couple? Maybe the couple that witnessed the 'soothing couple' going in to the apartment on Wednesday. The article is not entirely clear. If it is the same couple, and the 'soothing' story of Wednesday evening is true, how interesting that a friend of the McCanns called at their particular apartment asking for a computer. Surely it would have been more logical to try reception? I wonder what the Mc friend may have been trying to find out?

And whether the mystery soothing couple do have any links with Pamela Fenn. Maybe Mrs Fenn spoke to someone/people at the resort the following morning after the crying episode she heard on 2nd May. And some other people were on the alert. Aware that the McCann children were being left alone.

Who knows, maybe Mrs Fenn did phone OC reception or police? Or someone else did? Either that night or the following day/evening. 

Tuesday 2nd May - Mrs Fenn hears crying from the apartment for an hour and a quarter.
Wednesday 3rd May - a couple are reported to have entered the apartment to soothe a crying Madeleine.
Kate claims that at breakfast Madeleine asked why she and Gerry did not go to them when they cried the evening before.
Thursday 4th May - the McCanns claim Madeleine is abducted.
hi j.rob, The dates above need to be corrected.
I know it's very confusing but Saturday was 28th April.
Sunday 29th.
Monday 30th April.
Tuesday 1st May.

Wednesday 2nd May.

Thursday 3rd May.

Tuesday 1st was the night Mrs. Fenn reported crying.
Wednesday 2nd is the day Kate and Gerry try to bring 'confusion' in and are mixing times and places up to create a magnificent broth of confusion.
Tuesday 1st is the date also when the gym mistress is supposed to have done the quiz and Gerry invited her to table and Kate may not have been there. According to Mrs. Fenn, the crying stopped the moment she heard the patio door either open or shut. Kate's phone made calls that evening from the pings/in or right by 5A.

For me, the crying event is important enough for the McCs to try to shift time and place.
This would have to indicate that either they 'knew' that Mrs. Fenn had reported it, or at least that 'someone' had reported it.
There has been the confusion as to which night if any, K and G were at Chaplins, late into the night, and if and how the OC had offered them child minding services, subsequent to the crying in parents' absence incident, given that someone is supposed to have gone looking for K and G at Chaplins ? to get them to go back to crying children.
Thanks for the correction! I too think the crying incident as heard by Mrs Fenn is important. I also think that Kate may have thrown a wobbly on Tuesday after Gerry invited the quiz mistress to his table. The quiz mistress may also have caught gerry's eye on Sunday evening when she also hosted a quiz evening at the tapas so there could have been some tensions rising from very early on during that holiday (and probably from before too). I agree that Kate and Gerry have tried to shift times of crying to other nights to downplay what happened on Tuesday. Although Kate does write that Amelie cried in the early hours of the night, on Tuesday, waking up Madeleine who slept in their bed. Kate then shifts their 'tiff' to Wednesday evening. And records how they went to bed later so there was a 45 minute period where the children were not checked. 

Could this have been when the mystery soothers went in? It creates quite a long time -scale for that? I suspect though that the soothing couple may be a media invention and that something fairly cataclysmic happened on Tuesday evening.

If someone had also gone to find them while they were at Chaplins - on wed or another night ?- and subsequently offered childminding services to avoid further crying incidences the the whole week is adding up to a massive catalogue of neglect.

Also if OC staff noticed that TM were not always at the Tapas but went further afield it could well have raised eyebrows so other people in the resort were looking out for the children.

Imo.

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Re: Portuguese Geography

Post by Hicks on 22.09.14 14:16

I am beginning to think that this mystery couple was, and is still, part of a plan to spread disinformation. I am of the opinion that this investigation is a cover up, nothing I have seen so far leads me to think otherwise. And if this is the case, then how can we trust what is put into print when we have a media manipulator in charge of all information?
This was perhaps just another attempt to plant the idea of abduction. 

If there had been a mystery couple then why haven't they come forward? Why didn't anyone else in PDL at the time come forward with info on the couple? They must have been seen/known by others there.

What we can trust though without any doubt is the information the dogs gave us.

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Re: Portuguese Geography

Post by j.rob on 22.09.14 14:40

@Hicks wrote:I am beginning to think that this mystery couple was, and is still, part of a plan to spread disinformation. I am of the opinion that this investigation is a cover up, nothing I have seen so far leads me to think otherwise. And if this is the case, then how can we trust what is put into print when we have a media manipulator in charge of all information?
This was perhaps just another attempt to plant the idea of abduction. 

If there had been a mystery couple then why haven't they come forward? Why didn't anyone else in PDL at the time come forward with info on the couple? They must have been seen/known by others there.

What we can trust though without any doubt is the information the dogs gave us.
Yes it could be that the soothing couple were invented to place Madeleine as alive and well on Wednesday night. But the Mrs Fenn crying incident and the quiz night are both on record. And the Irish interviewer was gloating massively when he asked Kate about the row she and Gerry had that week. So I think that some kind of row is significant.

I do trust the dog alerts and were it not for that I think the Mcs would have got away with it. I think that is what gave them away. I think there was a plan for a live faked abduction which was botched.  They never anticipated sniffer dogs going in so long after the event as they thought everyone had fallen for the abduction story.

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Re: Portuguese Geography

Post by Hicks on 22.09.14 15:09

@j.rob wrote:
@Hicks wrote:I am beginning to think that this mystery couple was, and is still, part of a plan to spread disinformation. I am of the opinion that this investigation is a cover up, nothing I have seen so far leads me to think otherwise. And if this is the case, then how can we trust what is put into print when we have a media manipulator in charge of all information?
This was perhaps just another attempt to plant the idea of abduction. 

If there had been a mystery couple then why haven't they come forward? Why didn't anyone else in PDL at the time come forward with info on the couple? They must have been seen/known by others there.

What we can trust though without any doubt is the information the dogs gave us.
Yes it could be that the soothing couple were invented to place Madeleine as alive and well on Wednesday night. But the Mrs Fenn crying incident and the quiz night are both on record. And the Irish interviewer was gloating massively when he asked Kate about the row she and Gerry had that week. So I think that some kind of row is significant.

I do trust the dog alerts and were it not for that I think the Mcs would have got away with it. I think that is what gave them away. I think there was a plan for a live faked abduction which was botched.  They never anticipated sniffer dogs going in so long after the event as they thought everyone had fallen for the abduction story.
Mrs Fenn heard the crying on the Tuesday night(1st) On Thursday the McCann's routine changed, it's likely then that the death happened on the Wednesday evening whilst Madeleine had her pyjamas on. I bet the McCann's had a row alright, not over any quiz lady either. The bruises on Kate's wrists are telling.

It could be that the McCann's nanny back in Rothley did let them down at the last minute by not going on holiday to look after the children. It seemed like the holiday was not for the family to enjoy together. I bet our Kate resented the fact that she had to do most of the chores for the children, and not jog/play tennis when she wanted.
In very early newspaper reports there are tales of Kate putting the children to bed outside of crèche times and laying by the pool, during the day. Madeleine could be a hand full by all accounts. Its not hard to imagine Kate's resentment.
I will try to find some of these reports later.

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Mystery couple...

Post by XTC on 23.09.14 23:35

@missbeetle wrote:This article, XTC?

(sorry, I still can't do links)
Thank you missbeetle. This one.

Fron the Daily Express 2013

It is believed they entered the bedroom on May 2, 2007, the evening before Madeleine disappeared from the Ocean Club at Praia da Luz on Portugal’s Algarve.
The tip-off was given by two key witnesses who were reinterviewed as part of the Yard’s two-year, £4.5million  investigation.

" The tip off was given" etc

The main bit is the witnesses to the Good Samaritan couple were " (re) interviewed" as witnesses to this occurrence allegedly.

Question is: What did the witnesses  see happening and how did they see what was happening ? Basically how did they know what happened?

SY shouldn't be astonished as  these people were re-interviewed. Did they not say anything about it in their first interview?


Also, were these two  members of staff from MW's?

There was a rumour very early on  ( no surprise in this mess) that MW's offered babysitting services which were allegedly refused.


Only a rumour though.

Mitchell was alleged  to have said that the nannies were dismissed for the evening on the night of Madeleine's disappearance.

Suggesting to me ( apart from the Upstairs Downstairs haughty reference if true ) that nannies were present on the nights before.

 If he knew what he was talking about.

Yet another rumour though.

Shouldn't be hard to find the well meaning couple though because a day ( or a couple of days?)  later Madeleine became the most
famous young girl on the planet.

Perhaps they don't watch much TV?

One for Redwood and his re-interviewing team. I reckon.

Hang on a minute one for  Crimewatch - surely?

They've found JT's bundleman - let's find the caring couple via the medium of televison.

All rumour and opinion.

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On the rocks with Kate McCann...

Post by missbeetle on 26.09.14 1:23

I've been thinking about Kate's 'rocks' - first mentioned in her book here, in July 2007 :

And there would be several visits to ‘my rocks’ – a quiet part of the beach away from the promenade. As swimmers and sunbathers preferred the sandy stretches, this area, where the rocks reached down to the water, was usually deserted, and afforded me some shelter and privacy. I still go back there on my visits to Praia da Luz to be on my own.

...and then again in December 2009 :

Gerry and I were able to seek solace at Nossa Senhora da Luz, I spent time at my rocks on the beach and we caught up with friends. To this day I still return quietly to Luz from time to time to feel Madeleine close to me.
McCann, Kate (2011-05-12). Madeleine: Our daughter's disappearance and the continuing search for her (Kindle Locations 5163-5164). Transworld. Kindle Edition.


(aerial view of Praia da Luz snipped from coloradonewsday.com)

I take it the rocky promontory to the left of the photograph is the place she means...

...and the rows of black dots are palm trees along the promenade.


Some different views :

(snipped from algarveluzbay.com, with thanks)

Below left Kate is pictured on the rocks with whom I believe is Linda McQueen and her daughter (Kate's goddaughter)  :


...and on the right, with Gerry in September 2007 - I think that's Cuddle Cat on her lap.

These rocks seem to be of some emotional significance to Kate, but why that is, I don't know...

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Re: Portuguese Geography

Post by Guest on 26.09.14 7:39

Notice G's not wearing those sunglasses that he bought specially for the last photo.
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Free Love Hippy Commune...

Post by missbeetle on 23.10.14 20:43

Not really sure where to plonk this - but this is the first I've heard of these fellows :

(snipped from tamera.org)

My interest was piqued by their monoliths:


(snipped from tamera.org, with thanks)

Interesting folk, they seem to be mostly made up of German expatriates.

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Re: Portuguese Geography

Post by worriedmum on 23.10.14 21:26

Ladyinred wrote:Notice G's not wearing those sunglasses that he bought specially for the last photo.
Are there any photos of Gerry wearing sunglasses apart from the pool photo?
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Re: Portuguese Geography

Post by HelenMeg on 23.10.14 22:07

@worriedmum wrote:
Ladyinred wrote:Notice G's not wearing those sunglasses that he bought specially for the last photo.
Are there any photos of Gerry wearing sunglasses apart from the pool photo?

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Re: Portuguese Geography

Post by HelenMeg on 23.10.14 22:09

Heres another - there are very few though of G wearing sunglasses:


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It's an illusion...?

Post by missbeetle on 01.12.14 8:37

Two more totally crackers Kate'n'Cuddle Cat photographs :



Is than an oleander tree she is under?



(both pictures snipped from imageforum-diffusion.afp.com)

The caption for both :


Why would you take to the streets of Lagos to pose...?

That graffiti is frankly weird!

My thoughts only.

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Re: Portuguese Geography

Post by PeterMac on 01.12.14 8:45

Love the graffito 'Ilusion" next to her (portuguese spelling, obviously)

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Re: Portuguese Geography

Post by worriedmum on 01.12.14 11:30

When I see those photos of Kate with cuddlecat, just one word comes to mind- WHY?
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Re: Portuguese Geography

Post by Guest on 01.12.14 11:32

Kate loves being in front of a camera.  Did she not get enough attention as a child? laughat
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She shoots... She scores!

Post by missbeetle on 01.12.14 11:40

I hadn't seen this sporting shot either, before today :


(snipped from alamy.com)

I take it Cuddle Cat was cheering from the sidelines?

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Re: Portuguese Geography

Post by plebgate on 01.12.14 12:27

I do know for sure that I WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN kicking a football on a beach 3 months after the disappearance of any child of mine. eek

In fact I have to wonder if the ball has been photoshopped in as I truly cannot believe that Mrs. would have been kicking a football on a beach so soon after Maddie's disappearance.

I cannot believe what I am seeing.

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Re: Portuguese Geography

Post by jeanmonroe on 01.12.14 12:47

@plebgate wrote:I do know for sure that I WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN kicking a football on a beach 3 months after the disappearance of any child of mine. eek

In fact I have to wonder if the ball has been photoshopped in as I truly cannot believe that Mrs. would have been kicking a football on a beach so soon after Maddie's disappearance.

I cannot believe what I am seeing.

It was HER holiday too! winkwink

After all the 'own goals' she 'scored' about her fairytale 'disappearance' of Madeleine, she shouldn't have been let loose anywhere near a 'ball'! laughat

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Re: Portuguese Geography

Post by Guest on 01.12.14 17:28

@missbeetle wrote:I hadn't seen this sporting shot either, before today :


(snipped from alamy.com)

I take it Cuddle Cat was cheering from the sidelines?

Finally! A subject to which I can bring some genuine expertise...

Clearly right footed. Excellent body shape and good follow through. Looks like she went with her instep too. I'd say she's a natural.
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