'Portugal Resident' comments on that Summers and Swan book - and suggest it's just 'propaganda'

reporMarkus 2 wrote:

WMD wrote:

Markus 2 wrote: nglfi Today at 5:45 pm
I think if the case ever went to court the onus would be on Kate to explain why she made up an excuse of having attended 6 dead bodies,  and why she then inexplicably decided to wear those clothes on holiday without washing them. This was information she volunteered to explain cadaver odour and the prosecution would pounce on it in seconds, given how implaus it is as an explanation.


YES  IS THIS SOME OF THE EVIDENCE THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT NEEDED TO BE SORTED OUT

   The golden hours as you collect evidence you can then rule them in or out. Did not go far enough in that part of the investigation imo.

Evening people,I'm a newbie but have been reading and digesting for some time,the reason I've quoted this particular post is because of what Mrs McCann is supposed to have said in relation to the cadaver odour on her cloths,I can't find any where a statement or indeed a video where she said about her work cloths,is it actually out there?

I have heard this put forward many times, so yes I assume it is true but will see what I can find on this . ANYONE ELSE KNOW for sure..

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.co.uk/2007/09/kate-mccann-explains-smell-of-cadaver.html?m=1

I have found this link online which suggests it was originally reported in Correiro de Manha, but I will keep looking for the original statement in interviews.

nglfi wrote:

reporMarkus 2 wrote:

WMD wrote:

Markus 2 wrote: nglfi Today at 5:45 pm
I think if the case ever went to court the onus would be on Kate to explain why she made up an excuse of having attended 6 dead bodies,  and why she then inexplicably decided to wear those clothes on holiday without washing them. This was information she volunteered to explain cadaver odour and the prosecution would pounce on it in seconds, given how implaus it is as an explanation.


YES  IS THIS SOME OF THE EVIDENCE THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT NEEDED TO BE SORTED OUT

   The golden hours as you collect evidence you can then rule them in or out. Did not go far enough in that part of the investigation imo.

Evening people,I'm a newbie but have been reading and digesting for some time,the reason I've quoted this particular post is because of what Mrs McCann is supposed to have said in relation to the cadaver odour on her cloths,I can't find any where a statement or indeed a video where she said about her work cloths,is it actually out there?

I have heard this put forward many times, so yes I assume it is true but will see what I can find on this . ANYONE ELSE KNOW for sure..

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.co.uk/2007/09/kate-mccann-explains-smell-of-cadaver.html?m=1

I have found this link online which suggests it was originally reported in Correiro de Manha, but I will keep looking for the original statement in interviews.

JUST FOUND THIS REFUTING IT[url=http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39078050/Rebuttal of "Fact" 30]http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39078050/Rebuttal%20of%20%22Fact%22%2030 DO YOU THINK THEY ARE GOING TO COME UP WITH THIS IN THE BOOK [/url]
If this information is true then there is no need for them not to put it in the book, it could only do them good but if omitted ?

Markus 2 wrote:
JUST FOUND THIS REFUTING IT[url=http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39078050/Rebuttal of "Fact" 30]http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39078050/Rebuttal%20of%20%22Fact%22%2030
[/url]

That site rebuts night follows day.

The  Times reported on it in 2007 and it did originally come from Correia de Manha (sorry about the spelling). I think if there is any truth to it, it will be in the interviews published on the mccannfiles website, either in the PJ released files or the actual transcripts. I will keep looking for it but it may take a while! Hopefully a more knowledgable member could point us in the right direction :)

nglfi wrote:The  Times reported on it in 2007 and it did originally come from Correia de Manha (sorry about the spelling). I think if there is any truth to it, it will be in the interviews published on the mccannfiles website, either in the PJ released files or the actual transcripts. I will keep looking for it but it may take a while! Hopefully a more knowledgable member could point us in the right direction :)

Thanks for looking,point me towards any thing and I'll have a gander,I just hope that rebuttal site is wrong.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1563381/Madeleine-McCanns-parents-look-to-US-sniffer-dog-case.html the Telegraph here describes it as coming from 'a source close to the McCanns solicitors' so it could be a classic Clarence Mitchell blooper!

nglfi wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1563381/Madeleine-McCanns-parents-look-to-US-sniffer-dog-case.html the Telegraph here describes it as coming from 'a source close to the McCanns solicitors' so it could be a classic Clarence Mitchell blooper!

So it could be just a case of hearsay,I believe in the Hall DVD's it said the words were attributed to Mrs McCanns mother,I'll have another look.
Just looked again,in the Hall DVD "dogs don't lie",at 71 minutes it says that Susan Healy came up with the work cloths excuse.

Popcorn wrote:

nglfi wrote:Sadly I think this book is going to concentrate quite heavily around the dogs and make every effort to discredit them, in fact I think this is where any 'research' may have been done. The massive thorn in the side of the McCann defence is the dogs. Without their evidence,  most other things are circumstancial and could be argued around. They could argue that the inconsistencies in the t9 accounts came from the fact that they were all drunk (or distressed,  whatever) and people will believe it.
All they have to do is destroy the dogs evidence and most people will be swayed I think.  Having said that, destroying the dog evidence is no small task as it is so compelling,  and I have a feeling they will outright lie to make the cadaver abd blood scent seem coincidental.  I sincerely hope nobody is swayed by this tripe.

I would think that anyone setting out to trash the dogs would need to go about it fairly carefully. The McCanns aren't the only ones who have (or have had at one time) deep pockets. Martin Grime's trained dogs are extremely valuable and get work based on their reputation. According to one report, Keela alone was earning £530 a day plus expenses back in 2005. The FBI and British police use them and have criminals under lock and key as a result of their findings. Trashing such a successful and highly regarded individual would not be a very smart move IMO, unless they have some extremely detailed new technical evidence proving him to be unreliable. Looking at their past writings, I think that seems unlikely, myself.

I'm no law expert, but surely a good legal team could blow a hole in the "unreliable dogs" claim?  After all, Kate admitted that she had been handling corpses prior to her holiday, and wore the very same clothes on holiday, which explained why the dogs detected cadaverine on them. She sometimes took Madeleine's soft toy to work with her, which, as she explained, was why the dogs detected traces of cadaverine on it.  So she has contradicted Gerry's "unreliable dogs" statement, and confirmed their reliability in detecting cadaverine.  Surely?

http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39078050/Rebuttal%20of%20%22Fact%22%2030 Have they ever personally  been on video or in the media  refuting these facts  . Perhaps they think they dont need to ,or it is all true. Hmm........or in this new book

The more books , apologists ex / current police officers, MP's ,heads of media, spin doctors etc who continue to totally ignore all the clear evidence that points to the couple deeply upsets me ... Then I see the smug face of that Police commissioner in Rotherham who refuses to go .
my point it truly is a network .and more and more ,even though I have Imo I have always been in no doubt ,something very dark is the glue that binds .We live in a truly sick country as GA said it a very British desease. ( need quote ).

Naz_Nomad wrote:
I'm no law expert, but surely a good legal team could blow a hole in the "unreliable dogs" claim?  After all, Kate admitted that she had been handling corpses prior to her holiday, and wore the very same clothes on holiday, which explained why the dogs detected cadaverine on them. She sometimes took Madeleine's soft toy to work with her, which, as she explained, was why the dogs detected traces of cadaverine on it.  So she has contradicted Gerry's "unreliable dogs" statement, and confirmed their reliability in detecting cadaverine.  Surely?

Well maybe yes,but where is the supposed admission about the cadaver being from Kates work,as I pointed out above it was said in the Hall DVD that her mother said it,can't find any info on that either.I know the DVD's aren't definitive but he must have got the info from some where surely?

stillsloppingout wrote:The more books , apologists ex / current police officers, MP's ,heads of media, spin doctors etc who continue to totally ignore all the clear evidence that points to the couple deeply upsets me ... Then I see the smug face of that Police commissioner in Rotherham who refuses to go .
my point it truly is a network .and more and more ,even though I have Imo I have always been in no doubt ,something very dark is the glue that binds .We live in a truly sick country as GA said it a very British desease. ( need quote ).

Know what you mean ,can't win ,will it ever be any different.

Markus 2 wrote:

stillsloppingout wrote:The more books , apologists ex / current police officers, MP's ,heads of media, spin doctors etc who continue to totally ignore all the clear evidence that points to the couple deeply upsets me ... Then I see the smug face of that Police commissioner in Rotherham who refuses to go .
my point it truly is a network .and more and more ,even though I have Imo I have always been in no doubt ,something very dark is the glue that binds .We live in a truly sick country as GA said it a very British desease. ( need quote ).

Know what you mean ,can't win ,will it ever be any different.

Churchill said of the Russians "a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma".it very much sums up this mystery.

WMD wrote:

Naz_Nomad wrote:
I'm no law expert, but surely a good legal team could blow a hole in the "unreliable dogs" claim?  After all, Kate admitted that she had been handling corpses prior to her holiday, and wore the very same clothes on holiday, which explained why the dogs detected cadaverine on them. She sometimes took Madeleine's soft toy to work with her, which, as she explained, was why the dogs detected traces of cadaverine on it.  So she has contradicted Gerry's "unreliable dogs" statement, and confirmed their reliability in detecting cadaverine.  Surely?

Well maybe yes,but where is the supposed admission about the cadaver being from Kates work,as I pointed out above it was said in the Hall DVD that her mother said it,can't find any info on that either.I know the DVD's aren't definitive but he must have got the info from some where surely?

There is no primary source for this claim. no video and no direct quote from Kate. The 6 corpse claim comes from a tabloid and it is Granny Healy who supposedly made this claim.

IF, as has been 'suggested' there's something in this book, to completely 'diss' the EVRD Dogs  'alerts' will DCI Mahogany be the first one around to the MET's 'specialist' dog unit demanding ALL the 'useless, unreliable' cadavar and blood dogs be 'put down' immediately and the money used to 'fund' them, be immediately transferred to his investigation team?

I wonder WHY DCI Mahogany even 'bothered' taking TWO 'useless, unreliable', though apparently BETTER than Eddie and Keela, 'search' dogs with the OG team, for days, to PDL in June 2014?

Gerry McCann TRIED to 'diss' the EVRD dogs in court, (the ONE and ONLY thing DCI Mahogany had 'tasked' him with?( to CCP?) and ended up with a flea in his ear, and egg on his face, from the astute judge, who brought his, er, utterances, declarations, about the dogs, to a swift end, by asking him if HE was an 'expert' on EVRD dogs!
---------------------------------------------------------------------
In scenes reminiscent of an episode from Perry Mason, Gerry McCann yesterday attempted to persuade a libel trial that he was an expert in blood detection dogs.

The intervention by Judge Maria Emília de Melo e Castro came following the reading of a personal statement to the court by Gerry McCann wherein he attempted to interject the subject of the dog alerts. Thus began one of the most bizarre episodes of the trial to date and a wonderment to watch.

Gerry McCann claimed that the dogs hadn't found any blood and despite the judge telling him to be quiet he carried on regardless, desperately trying to put across his point of view. As McCann continued, the Judge was having none of it however, and with a wry smile waved a backhand at the witness and told him to be quiet. She thereafter interrupted his every utterance, before asking him if he was a specialist on the dogs and finally reminding him that he was not there to state opinion, rather he was there at her invitation to answer her questions in her court...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ooopppss!

Perhaps Summers and Swan will have better 'luck' at 'dissing' the EVRD dogs or other MET Police 'specialist' dogs! (in their book)

That's if DCI Mahogany hasn't had them all 'put down'!

The same Summers and Swan that would, presumeably, NOT 'react' to a specialist MET Police 'explosives' sniffer dog if it 'alerted' to 'something' on a plane they were aboard, about to take off, dismissing the dogs 'alerts' as unreliable and "there's nothing to worry about folks, with that useless dog's 'alert'".

EVERYONE STAY IN YOUR SEATS!



Just to add :would S&S 'complain' IF a family member of their's went 'missing' and the police turned up, without search dogs, saying "we ain't brought dogs with us, cause we were told they were notoriously unreliable, by a doctor, of all people, who'd have thought, eh?"

Summers:"GET SOME OF THOSE EFFING UNRELIABLE, USELESS, SNIFFER SEARCH DOGS HERE TO FIND XXXX.............................RIGHT NOW, YOU EFFING TO*SER!"

Swan: "COULD YOU PLEASE, PLEASE, PRETTY PLEASE, GET THOSE UNRELIABLE, USELESS, SNIFFER SEARCH DOGS TO HELP FIND XXXX, PLEASE?"

WMD wrote:

Markus 2 wrote:

stillsloppingout wrote:The more books , apologists ex / current police officers, MP's ,heads of media, spin doctors etc who continue to totally ignore all the clear evidence that points to the couple deeply upsets me ... Then I see the smug face of that Police commissioner in Rotherham who refuses to go .
my point it truly is a network .and more and more ,even though I have Imo I have always been in no doubt ,something very dark is the glue that binds .We live in a truly sick country as GA said it a very British desease. ( need quote ).

Know what you mean ,can't win ,will it ever be any different.

Churchill said of the Russians "a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma".it very much sums up this mystery.

You can say that again! And maybe throw in "charade" somewhere along the line.

nglfi wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1563381/Madeleine-McCanns-parents-look-to-US-sniffer-dog-case.html the Telegraph here describes it as coming from 'a source close to the McCanns solicitors' so it could be a classic Clarence Mitchell blooper!

Yes, let's not forget we have it on record that Clarence Mitchell claimed that NONE of the Tapas 9 had either a watch OR a mobile phone with them!!! If he can claim that, he can claim anything.

Okeydokey wrote:

nglfi wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1563381/Madeleine-McCanns-parents-look-to-US-sniffer-dog-case.html the Telegraph here describes it as coming from 'a source close to the McCanns solicitors' so it could be a classic Clarence Mitchell blooper!

Yes, let's not forget we have it on record that Clarence Mitchell claimed that NONE of the Tapas 9 had either a watch OR  a mobile phone with them!!! If he can claim that, he can claim anything.

The very SAME Clarence 'i'm STILL on a retainer of £28,000pa PAID from the Madeleine 'Fund" Mitchell, who HAD to 'back track', rapidly, from the 'smashed shutter, jemmied shutter, forced window' er 'break in, put into the public domain by McCanns and people IN UK (excellent eyesight!) the very next day, after the 'event' as to how the burglator 'got in' to 'abduct' Madeleine, because that was the ONLY way to get into the er, secured, locked, safe, holiday apartment!

Hmmmm.

Okeydokey wrote:

WMD wrote:

Markus 2 wrote:

stillsloppingout wrote:The more books , apologists ex / current police officers, MP's ,heads of media, spin doctors etc who continue to totally ignore all the clear evidence that points to the couple deeply upsets me ... Then I see the smug face of that Police commissioner in Rotherham who refuses to go .
my point it truly is a network .and more and more ,even though I have Imo I have always been in no doubt ,something very dark is the glue that binds .We live in a truly sick country as GA said it a very British desease. ( need quote ).

Know what you mean ,can't win ,will it ever be any different.

Churchill said of the Russians "a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma".it very much sums up this mystery.

You can say that again! And maybe throw in "charade" somewhere along the line.

Yes, yes, and yes. It is very dark and it's everywhere.

I think the likelihood of your average GP coming into contact with 6 dead bodies in such a short time would be practically zero unless your name was Dr Harold Shipman. 

stillsloppingout wrote:The more books , apologists ex / current police officers, MP's ,heads of media, spin doctors etc who continue to totally ignore all the clear evidence that points to the couple deeply upsets me ... Then I see the smug face of that Police commissioner in Rotherham who refuses to go .
my point it truly is a network .and more and more ,even though I have Imo I have always been in no doubt ,something very dark is the glue that binds .We live in a truly sick country as GA said it a very British desease. ( need quote ).

Yes something very dark and sinister indeed that binds together the Tapas 9, who here (or anywhere) would cover and lie for a friend or even a family member as they have all done?  And even if you did on the spur of the moment surely you would have cracked by now?

So as they haven't (so far) that shows there is too much at risk.

WMD wrote:

Naz_Nomad wrote:
I'm no law expert, but surely a good legal team could blow a hole in the "unreliable dogs" claim?  After all, Kate admitted that she had been handling corpses prior to her holiday, and wore the very same clothes on holiday, which explained why the dogs detected cadaverine on them. She sometimes took Madeleine's soft toy to work with her, which, as she explained, was why the dogs detected traces of cadaverine on it.  So she has contradicted Gerry's "unreliable dogs" statement, and confirmed their reliability in detecting cadaverine.  Surely?

Well maybe yes,but where is the supposed admission about the cadaver being from Kates work,as I pointed out above it was said in the Hall DVD that her mother said it,can't find any info on that either.I know the DVD's aren't definitive but he must have got the info from some where surely?

Iirc it's a quote from either Philomena or Kate's mother. The  'explanation' for the DNA in the car came from Philomena.

The McCanns have right from the start made sure that such statements cannot be directly attributed to them. Probably lesson one/instruction nr 1 from the PR.
they were also given written statements - so as to read their emotions from a piece of paper, which would have been a good habit to extend to interviews where motormouth Gerry in particular spills the beans with depressing regularity.

As for the six corpses, that can still be checked out,  records of deceased  around that time should be available and the working hours of Dr. Kate are known too. I'd be highly surprised  if her practice had such a massive death rate, quite apart from the fact that  It would hardly be her job to visit the mortuary unless she was testing sedatives and it was part of a learning curve to see the difference - iirc the way she was reported to test the twins for vital signs was rather basic.
Dear me, I'm now having visions of Kate in her cook's trousers, cuddlecat in one hand, a small mirror in the other, muttering 'asleep? Or?'

The alert at Sean's little red tshirt with airplanes on it is conveniently forgotten in this 'version'.

@ tigger About those six dead persons. Kate McCann might have visited them at the place they died. It's a routine job some doctors perform for the 'help-services'.
My GP did as well at some time. They visit to issue (or not)a certificate of natural death.
It brings in some extra money. 
Dunno if it works like that in the UK.

I am not believing any such thing happened,
but just to put the record straight.

parapono

Iirc it's a quote from either Philomena or Kate's mother
If it can be found that she said that and proven to be documented , how would she know it was six people, unless Kate had told her. So does this not prove the point that it was mentioned.Why were they not questioned further on this.
I think if the case ever went to court the onus would be on Kate to explain why she made up an excuse of having attended 6 dead bodies,  and why she then inexplicably decided to wear those clothes on holiday without washing them. This was information she volunteered to explain cadaver odour and the prosecution would pounce on it in seconds, given how implaus it is as an explanation.

tigger wrote:

WMD wrote:

Naz_Nomad wrote:
I'm no law expert, but surely a good legal team could blow a hole in the "unreliable dogs" claim?  After all, Kate admitted that she had been handling corpses prior to her holiday, and wore the very same clothes on holiday, which explained why the dogs detected cadaverine on them. She sometimes took Madeleine's soft toy to work with her, which, as she explained, was why the dogs detected traces of cadaverine on it.  So she has contradicted Gerry's "unreliable dogs" statement, and confirmed their reliability in detecting cadaverine.  Surely?

Well maybe yes,but where is the supposed admission about the cadaver being from Kates work,as I pointed out above it was said in the Hall DVD that her mother said it,can't find any info on that either.I know the DVD's aren't definitive but he must have got the info from some where surely?

Iirc it's a quote from either Philomena or Kate's mother. The  'explanation' for the DNA in the car came from Philomena.

The McCanns have right from the start made sure that such statements cannot be directly attributed to them. Probably lesson one/instruction nr 1 from the PR.
they were also given written statements - so as to read their emotions from a piece of paper, which would have been a good habit to extend to interviews where motormouth Gerry in particular spills the beans with depressing regularity.

As for the six corpses, that can still be checked out,  records of deceased  around that time should be available and the working hours of Dr. Kate are known too. I'd be highly surprised  if her practice had such a massive death rate, quite apart from the fact that  It would hardly be her job to visit the mortuary unless she was testing sedatives and it was part of a learning curve to see the difference - iirc the way she was reported to test the twins for vital signs was rather basic.
Dear me, I'm now having visions of Kate in her cook's trousers, cuddlecat in one hand, a small mirror in the other, muttering 'asleep? Or?'

The claim of contact with the six corpses refers to home visits to certify death a la shipman style.
For a part time locum to have certified 6 corpses in private residences in a short period of time it seems a massive rate since they would have had to be her patients for her to be called out to attend to the patients or to certify death.  

The irony is they acknowledged cadaverine on their possession; and that's a dead giveaway they knew the dogs have got them cornered.

Thanks, we also have to assume that these six death were spread over at least 2-3 weeks imo.
So Kate is visiting wearing her holiday clothes in March/April in Leicester. Seems a bit cold.

As for the red T-shirt, not forgotten but Sean is seen to be wearing it soon after the dog alerts and we all know what that means - spilled sea bass. ..

Mrs Healy, 61, has also repeated her concerns that efforts
are being made to frame her daughter. "I'm worried that evidence
is being planted," she said.

stillsloppingout wrote:The more books , apologists ex / current police officers, MP's ,heads of media, spin doctors etc who continue to totally ignore all the clear evidence that points to the couple deeply upsets me ... Then I see the smug face of that Police commissioner in Rotherham who refuses to go .
my point it truly is a network .and more and more ,even though I have Imo I have always been in no doubt ,something very dark is the glue that binds .We live in a truly sick country as GA said it a very British desease. ( need quote ).

Taking a purely academic position, in a sense we are all privileged to be witnessing how a 21st Century cover-up / whitewash happens.  All of us have read of historical cover-ups (Watergate / Saville) that date back many decades.  But here we are seeing - right from the very first days - exactly how a white-wash is constructed and executed by the required mixture of people and organisations.

It's taken my breath away to see how blatant it can be and yet create little or no push-back in the media or elsewhere.  On the one hand it's easier these days as there are no journalists left - simply reporters and presenters.  And yet, the internet - twitter / blogs / forums do create a problem for whitewashes.  The snag is that bloggers / forums have NO access to power - just to information.  

And, as we have seen with Maddie, even when faced with a powerful internet presence, this simply pushes the whitewash to new levels using all elements of their power.  In this case we have: TV, the police, publishers, the mainstream media, PR companies, and politicians all involved.  It has been coordinated, multi-faceted, ongoing and entirely persistent in following the white-wash line.  Not once has it even acknowledged the 'other' story or investigated it in any way.

This is a model whitewash that others will follow in the future. All we are waiting for now is to see how and when they close it down.  We appear to be in the End Game.

It seems that Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan haven't been learning their lines well enough - how unprofessional.

In his SkyNews interview earlier in the week, Summers referred to government agencies having made 'mistakes'. He hurriedly corrected himself and came up with a word not yet known to any English dictionary, saying, "er, they made 'mis-steps'."

Hilarious!

All the other major players in this have honed their acting skills and learnt their lines.

Come on Summers old chap, you'll have to do better when Lorraine Kelly has you on the sofa next week.

You mustn't make any mistakes.

Er, or should that be: 'mis-steps'? 


ETA:  Does anyone know please if this clip can still be viewed?

stillsloppingout wrote:The more books , apologists ex / current police officers, MP's ,heads of media, spin doctors etc who continue to totally ignore all the clear evidence that points to the couple deeply upsets me ... Then I see the smug face of that Police commissioner in Rotherham who refuses to go .
my point it truly is a network .and more and more ,even though I have Imo I have always been in no doubt ,something very dark is the glue that binds .We live in a truly sick country as GA said it a very British desease. ( need quote ).

Indeed, sso!  There's a posse of putrid top professionals at the heart of this coverup!