'Portugal Resident' comments on that Summers and Swan book - and suggest it's just 'propaganda'

tigger wrote:
Since those flats were built, it appears nobody died in 5a, the PJ checked. 

Brian Griffin wrote:

tigger wrote:
Since those flats were built, it appears nobody died in 5a, the PJ checked. 

Then again, you're assuming that any crime or accident would have been reported to the hotel or the authorities. Is it entirely impossible that someone could have died in the apartment, the body removed unseen and the apartment cleaned to disguise the fact before the McCanns got there? As unlikely as it seems, it isn't impossible, however improbable, so it could be argued that it is circumstantial I would imagine. Not all crimes are reported, especially those people want covered up.

Brian Griffin wrote:Undoubtedly!

Yet many of them use their own names to discuss the case on the Internet, which is also publishing. These days you can publish a book and get it on the main book sites like Amazon free of charge. All you need is a computer and a bit of time.

nglfi wrote:

Brian Griffin wrote:

tigger wrote:
Since those flats were built, it appears nobody died in 5a, the PJ checked. 

Then again, you're assuming that any crime or accident would have been reported to the hotel or the authorities. Is it entirely impossible that someone could have died in the apartment, the body removed unseen and the apartment cleaned to disguise the fact before the McCanns got there? As unlikely as it seems, it isn't impossible, however improbable, so it could be argued that it is circumstantial I would imagine. Not all crimes are reported, especially those people want covered up.

But the odds of that happening are impossibly small, when coupled with the fact that cadaver odour was found on Kate's clothes, cuddle cat etc etc, and cadaver and blood odour was also found in the Scenic. I agree that it doesn't prove it was Madeleine's corpse, but seriously who else's?  Even if it's inadmissible in court, I believe it's the main piece of evidence convincing those who don't believe the McCanns, but haven't necessarily read much about the case.

Brian Griffin wrote:

nglfi wrote:

Brian Griffin wrote:

tigger wrote:
Since those flats were built, it appears nobody died in 5a, the PJ checked. 

Then again, you're assuming that any crime or accident would have been reported to the hotel or the authorities. Is it entirely impossible that someone could have died in the apartment, the body removed unseen and the apartment cleaned to disguise the fact before the McCanns got there? As unlikely as it seems, it isn't impossible, however improbable, so it could be argued that it is circumstantial I would imagine. Not all crimes are reported, especially those people want covered up.

But the odds of that happening are impossibly small, when coupled with the fact that cadaver odour was found on Kate's clothes, cuddle cat etc etc, and cadaver and blood odour was also found in the Scenic. I agree that it doesn't prove it was Madeleine's corpse, but seriously who else's?  Even if it's inadmissible in court, I believe it's the main piece of evidence convincing those who don't believe the McCanns, but haven't necessarily read much about the case.

I agree, the odds are small, but not impossibly as far as a clever lawyer is concerned. But without absolute proof, there could still be another explanation. The McCanns have managed to explain away the odour on Kate's clothes and in the Scenic and without DNA evidence there is no proof otherwise. What if it really is from hospitals or meat? I think it would be very risky of the McCanns to hire a car, collect and dispose of a body when they must have been under close scrutiny at the time. If something had happened to Madeleine that the McCanns wanted to hide, I believe Madeleine would have been long gone, and completely disposed of (and it feels horrible to use those words to write about that little girl) before any of the abduction shenanigans began. All my opinion of course.

Casey5 wrote:

Brian Griffin wrote:Undoubtedly!

Yet many of them use their own names to discuss the case on the Internet, which is also publishing. These days you can publish a book and get it on the main book sites like Amazon free of charge. All you need is a computer and a bit of time.

Pat Brown did exactly that. I downloaded it onto kindle and then poof it was gone from the Amazon site both here and in the States. Amazon won't get into a legal fight for an author who publishes a kindle book if the content is disputed by a legal firm like  Carter Ruck for instance. And Amazon didn't. They withdrew her book.
If, on the other hand, you write a book and use a publisher then Amazon would sell it because if there's a problem it would be the publishing company who would run the risk of being sued just like the publishers of Dr Amaral's book.
No publisher, apparently would run the risk of publishing Dr Amaral's book in English so it never was.
And that's the problem for anyone writing a book criticising  the MCanns.

Newintown wrote:

Brian Griffin wrote:

nglfi wrote:

Brian Griffin wrote:

tigger wrote:
Since those flats were built, it appears nobody died in 5a, the PJ checked. 

Then again, you're assuming that any crime or accident would have been reported to the hotel or the authorities. Is it entirely impossible that someone could have died in the apartment, the body removed unseen and the apartment cleaned to disguise the fact before the McCanns got there? As unlikely as it seems, it isn't impossible, however improbable, so it could be argued that it is circumstantial I would imagine. Not all crimes are reported, especially those people want covered up.

But the odds of that happening are impossibly small, when coupled with the fact that cadaver odour was found on Kate's clothes, cuddle cat etc etc, and cadaver and blood odour was also found in the Scenic. I agree that it doesn't prove it was Madeleine's corpse, but seriously who else's?  Even if it's inadmissible in court, I believe it's the main piece of evidence convincing those who don't believe the McCanns, but haven't necessarily read much about the case.

I agree, the odds are small, but not impossibly as far as a clever lawyer is concerned. But without absolute proof, there could still be another explanation. The McCanns have managed to explain away the odour on Kate's clothes and in the Scenic and without DNA evidence there is no proof otherwise. What if it really is from hospitals or meat? I think it would be very risky of the McCanns to hire a car, collect and dispose of a body when they must have been under close scrutiny at the time. If something had happened to Madeleine that the McCanns wanted to hide, I believe Madeleine would have been long gone, and completely disposed of (and it feels horrible to use those words to write about that little girl) before any of the abduction shenanigans began. All my opinion of course.

re the McCanns explaining away the odour on Kate’s clothes - there would have to be 100% proof that KM attended 6 dead bodies, she would have to have signed the death certificates or other certificates when she attended a death.  They would be asked for, as proof, in a court of law.  At the moment, it’s all hearsay.

The cadaver dogs don’t respond to “meat”.  The sensitivity of their noses is 100,000 times stronger than a humans.  They are highly trained to detect the “cadaver” odour, if they detected to “meat” they would be useless for the job they’re trained to do.

With regard to the McCanns hiring a car, who said it was the McCanns who actually drove the car.  The McCanns are very adept at the art of “look over there, not over here”, they went on many trips where the World’s media followed them, Rome for instance.  Who knows what was going on while they were away and the media weren’t on the ball or even in PDL when the McCanns went on their “trips”.

The one point I agree with you on is that Madeleine was disposed of before the shenanigans began (and was moved at a future date in the hire car when the press were following the McCanns not the hire car).

Brian Griffin wrote:

Newintown wrote:

Brian Griffin wrote:

nglfi wrote:

Brian Griffin wrote:

tigger wrote:
Since those flats were built, it appears nobody died in 5a, the PJ checked. 

Then again, you're assuming that any crime or accident would have been reported to the hotel or the authorities. Is it entirely impossible that someone could have died in the apartment, the body removed unseen and the apartment cleaned to disguise the fact before the McCanns got there? As unlikely as it seems, it isn't impossible, however improbable, so it could be argued that it is circumstantial I would imagine. Not all crimes are reported, especially those people want covered up.

But the odds of that happening are impossibly small, when coupled with the fact that cadaver odour was found on Kate's clothes, cuddle cat etc etc, and cadaver and blood odour was also found in the Scenic. I agree that it doesn't prove it was Madeleine's corpse, but seriously who else's?  Even if it's inadmissible in court, I believe it's the main piece of evidence convincing those who don't believe the McCanns, but haven't necessarily read much about the case.

I agree, the odds are small, but not impossibly as far as a clever lawyer is concerned. But without absolute proof, there could still be another explanation. The McCanns have managed to explain away the odour on Kate's clothes and in the Scenic and without DNA evidence there is no proof otherwise. What if it really is from hospitals or meat? I think it would be very risky of the McCanns to hire a car, collect and dispose of a body when they must have been under close scrutiny at the time. If something had happened to Madeleine that the McCanns wanted to hide, I believe Madeleine would have been long gone, and completely disposed of (and it feels horrible to use those words to write about that little girl) before any of the abduction shenanigans began. All my opinion of course.

re the McCanns explaining away the odour on Kate’s clothes - there would have to be 100% proof that KM attended 6 dead bodies, she would have to have signed the death certificates or other certificates when she attended a death.  They would be asked for, as proof, in a court of law.  At the moment, it’s all hearsay.

The cadaver dogs don’t respond to “meat”.  The sensitivity of their noses is 100,000 times stronger than a humans.  They are highly trained to detect the “cadaver” odour, if they detected to “meat” they would be useless for the job they’re trained to do.

With regard to the McCanns hiring a car, who said it was the McCanns who actually drove the car.  The McCanns are very adept at the art of “look over there, not over here”, they went on many trips where the World’s media followed them, Rome for instance.  Who knows what was going on while they were away and the media weren’t on the ball or even in PDL when the McCanns went on their “trips”.

The one point I agree with you on is that Madeleine was disposed of before the shenanigans began (and was moved at a future date in the hire car when the press were following the McCanns not the hire car).

Some good points you've got there. Especially about the 'look over here, not over there'. I naturally assumed the McCanns would be driving the car they hired. Then who? The plot thickens! Surely the more people there are in this chain, the greater the chance of one of the links breaking.

But would Kate need to prove she attended the bodies? Wouldn't the prosecution have to prove that the smell/blood was from Madeleine? Innocent until proven guilty, and all that?

In my opinion.

Brian Griffin wrote:

tigger wrote:
Since those flats were built, it appears nobody died in 5a, the PJ checked. 

Then again, you're assuming that any crime or accident would have been reported to the hotel or the authorities. Is it entirely impossible that someone could have died in the apartment, the body removed unseen and the apartment cleaned to disguise the fact before the McCanns got there? As unlikely as it seems, it isn't impossible, however improbable, so it could be argued that it is circumstantial I would imagine. Not all crimes are reported, especially those people want covered up.

Brian Griffin wrote:But it still *might* have happened. Just playing Devil's Advocate here.

(I'm referring to the post above the one above this)

Newintown wrote:

Brian Griffin wrote:But it still *might* have happened. Just playing Devil's Advocate here.

(I'm referring to the post above the one above this)

If you're referring to my post it is highly unlikely that any death would have been over looked or hidden by anyone owning the apartment or renting it out.  There would have been in depth investigations into the ownership/renting of the apartment so nothing was missed.  There may be a million in one chance that that someone died in the apartment and was taken out in the middle of the night never to be seen again, but would their cadaver odour be detected behind the sofa, in the wardrobe, on cuddle cat, on KM's clothes, but not on GM's clothes or the twins or any otherr items in the apartment?

tigger wrote:

Newintown wrote:

Brian Griffin wrote:But it still *might* have happened. Just playing Devil's Advocate here.

(I'm referring to the post above the one above this)

If you're referring to my post it is highly unlikely that any death would have been over looked or hidden by anyone owning the apartment or renting it out.  There would have been in depth investigations into the ownership/renting of the apartment so nothing was missed.  There may be a million in one chance that that someone died in the apartment and was taken out in the middle of the night never to be seen again, but would their cadaver odour be detected behind the sofa, in the wardrobe, on cuddle cat, on KM's clothes, but not on GM's clothes or the twins or any otherr items in the apartment?

Attaboy!  i get a bit tired of these putative corpses occupying 5a..

Newintown wrote:

Brian Griffin wrote:But it still *might* have happened. Just playing Devil's Advocate here.

(I'm referring to the post above the one above this)

If you're referring to my post it is highly unlikely that any death would have been over looked or hidden by anyone owning the apartment or renting it out.  There would have been in depth investigations into the ownership/renting of the apartment so nothing was missed.  There may be a million in one chance that that someone died in the apartment and was taken out in the middle of the night never to be seen again, but would their cadaver odour be detected behind the sofa, in the wardrobe, on cuddle cat, on KM's clothes, but not on GM's clothes or the twins or any otherr items in the apartment?

Brian Griffin wrote:

Newintown wrote:

Brian Griffin wrote:But it still *might* have happened. Just playing Devil's Advocate here.

(I'm referring to the post above the one above this)

If you're referring to my post it is highly unlikely that any death would have been over looked or hidden by anyone owning the apartment or renting it out.  There would have been in depth investigations into the ownership/renting of the apartment so nothing was missed.  There may be a million in one chance that that someone died in the apartment and was taken out in the middle of the night never to be seen again, but would their cadaver odour be detected behind the sofa, in the wardrobe, on cuddle cat, on KM's clothes, but not on GM's clothes or the twins or any otherr items in the apartment?

If you're referring to my post it is highly unlikely that any death would have been over looked or hidden by anyone owning the apartment or renting it out.

Have to disagree. Just looking at the apartment after Madeleine had gone missing, if you knew nothing of the events of that evening, you would not draw any conclusion that anything had happened there out of the ordinary, unless you're suggesting that it's commonplace to sweep the holiday apartment that is going to be your home for the next couple of weeks with sniffer dogs and forensic teams. I dunno. Maybe you do, but I'll bet you don't! That. I would wager, is even less likely than your million in one chance of someone dying in there previously. Something has to happen to initiate that response, like a woman screaming that her daughter is missing. You can clean blood off a tiled floor easily, too, so if you couldn't see the spatters, you'd be none the wiser. You need a reason to suspect.  Like I say, it's highly unlikely, but not completely impossible.

but would their cadaver odour be detected behind the sofa, in the wardrobe, on cuddle cat, on KM's clothes, but not on GM's clothes or the twins or any otherr items in the apartment?

Who says it's the same cadaver odour? You would need to prove it's the same person, and then you've got to prove it's Maddie's.

In my opinion.

Brian Griffin wrote:Seriously? You think that all this debating on here is a good use of time? It just carries on, and the McCanns just carry on and there is never any conclusion to the case. We're all wasting our time.

In my opinion.

And I stand by the point I am making - noone knows for sure what happened in that apartment, or in any of the apartments, before the McCanns got there, however unlikely.

Brian Griffin wrote:Seriously? You think that all this debating on here is a good use of time? It just carries on, and the McCanns just carry on and there is never any conclusion to the case. We're all wasting our time.

In my opinion.

And I stand by the point I am making - noone knows for sure what happened in that apartment, or in any of the apartments, before the McCanns got there, however unlikely.

PeterMac wrote:And according to Kate it would have to have been in the previous 30 days anyway  ! !
Touchée.

Markus 2 wrote: nglfi Today at 5:45 pm
I think if the case ever went to court the onus would be on Kate to explain why she made up an excuse of having attended 6 dead bodies,  and why she then inexplicably decided to wear those clothes on holiday without washing them. This was information she volunteered to explain cadaver odour and the prosecution would pounce on it in seconds, given how implaus it is as an explanation.


YES  IS THIS SOME OF THE EVIDENCE THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT NEEDED TO BE SORTED OUT

   The golden hours as you collect evidence you can then rule them in or out. Did not go far enough in that part of the investigation imo.

tigger wrote:

Newintown wrote:

Brian Griffin wrote:But it still *might* have happened. Just playing Devil's Advocate here.

(I'm referring to the post above the one above this)

If you're referring to my post it is highly unlikely that any death would have been over looked or hidden by anyone owning the apartment or renting it out.  There would have been in depth investigations into the ownership/renting of the apartment so nothing was missed.  There may be a million in one chance that that someone died in the apartment and was taken out in the middle of the night never to be seen again, but would their cadaver odour be detected behind the sofa, in the wardrobe, on cuddle cat, on KM's clothes, but not on GM's clothes or the twins or any otherr items in the apartment?

Attaboy!  i get a bit tired of these putative corpses occupying 5a..

Brian Griffin wrote:

tigger wrote:
Since those flats were built, it appears nobody died in 5a, the PJ checked. 

Then again, you're assuming that any crime or accident would have been reported to the hotel or the authorities. Is it entirely impossible that someone could have died in the apartment, the body removed unseen and the apartment cleaned to disguise the fact before the McCanns got there? As unlikely as it seems, it isn't impossible, however improbable, so it could be argued that it is circumstantial I would imagine. Not all crimes are reported, especially those people want covered up.

WMD wrote:

Markus 2 wrote: nglfi Today at 5:45 pm
I think if the case ever went to court the onus would be on Kate to explain why she made up an excuse of having attended 6 dead bodies,  and why she then inexplicably decided to wear those clothes on holiday without washing them. This was information she volunteered to explain cadaver odour and the prosecution would pounce on it in seconds, given how implaus it is as an explanation.


YES  IS THIS SOME OF THE EVIDENCE THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT NEEDED TO BE SORTED OUT

   The golden hours as you collect evidence you can then rule them in or out. Did not go far enough in that part of the investigation imo.

Evening people,I'm a newbie but have been reading and digesting for some time,the reason I've quoted this particular post is because of what Mrs McCann is supposed to have said in relation to the cadaver odour on her cloths,I can't find any where a statement or indeed a video where she said about her work cloths,is it actually out there?