Re: 'Portugal Resident' comments on that Summers and Swan book - and suggest it's just 'propaganda'

by Okeydokey 05.09.14 23:03

Tony Bennett wrote:
canada12 wrote:He does qualify mostly everything the McCanns have claimed with phrases like "he says" and "The McCanns told the police". Which to me indicates a smidgen of doubt about what the McCanns have claimed as fact. Or at least the qualifier that this is what they have claimed, rather than what is accepted as fact.
Gordon Rayner spent a day in the conservatory at my home in early 2007 as I was in the middle of writing my book 'Getting Away With Murder' on the murder of Stuart Lubbock at Michael Barrymore's home on 1 April 2001. He looked at original source material and at my analyses. He was a very courteous, perceptive and meticulous journalist who at that time was working for the Daily Mail - soon afterwards he was promoted to the Daily Telegraph.

The Daily Mail had been considering serialising my book, but the News of the World got there first (I know, I know - and to make it even worse, Andy Coulson was the paper's editor at the time). Gordon used quite a lot of my material in subsequent Daily Mail articles on the case.

Although as has been said, Gordon Rayner's piece carefully uses phrases such as 'he says', 'was told', 'is claimed' etc., it is still sad to see that the fearsome laws of libel and no doubt editorial instructions have forced this otherwise thorough journalist of integrity to have got so many facts wrong, and left out so much.

Tragic, At least he uses the phrase 'reported missing' in the intorduction, the phrase I have used consistently for four years to refer to Madeleine's disappearance - as it is simply the most accurate

Tragic is the right word, Tony.

The only thing that keeps me following this case is the terrible damage it has had (and is continuing to have) on our (now fragile) culture of free speech, free thought and a free press. It is like we have all (almost all) been recruited into some horrific cult where we have to believe ten items of nonsense before breakfast each day.

If you value freedom you have to fight the McCann grip on the narrative. Whether you fight it big like Tony has or in small ways, doesn't matter: the important thing is to fight it.

by Bishop Brennan 06.09.14 5:32

Varriott wrote:The Telegraph article is only unbiased in comparison to all other articles. It still contains a number of misleading comments and outright inaccuracies, obvious to even casual observers like us. Still, it mentions the dogs and doesn't quite say (although it does imply) that the saintly couple are obviously innocent. So, a step forward maybe. I still await the day when someone can write an objective article in the MSM. Still waiting.... anyone?

My bolding of your quote - I think this may be the FIRST media article that has mentioned the dogs at all in the past 3 years. That alone makes it stand out. I'm not sure that this has any real significance other than to say that Raynor is a far better journalist than all of the others (see Tony's interesting personal perspective above). He does not for example try to discredit the dogs or lazily insult Amaral or the PJ.

But the article does highlight one thing - the dogs and the blood samples have provided the only evidence in the case so far... And that SY's new "stranger" theories still have nothing to back them up.

by Miraflores 06.09.14 7:48

I think this is a clever piece of writing.
It reminds me of what my father used to tell me about the Telegraph's reporting during the war years. When most papers would be screaming 'advance on .... xxx taken', the Telegraph would be reporting 'said to be an advance on'... etc, or in other words, don't believe the rest of the press, you'r being spun a line, things aren't going quite as well as they would like you to believe. All of which would be found to be true later.

by **PeterMac** 06.09.14 8:21

It also includes the photo of the bed, so people can form their own view of whether an adult and three wriggling children sat on it to read and sing and clap their hands and whether Madeleine ever "snuggled down" into it. "The McCanns told police they had put Madeleine to bed"
The dogs reference is good, as it gives the details of where they alerted and where they DIDN"T. "Both dogs were taken to several locations connected to the investigation, and gave alerts only in apartment 5A. "

And then, for clarification, he spells out a very credible and possibly the simplest and most reasonable scenario "The Portuguese police came up with the theory that Madeleine had been killed by her parents by accident, possibly by being given an overdose of a sedative to make her sleep, that they had hidden the body, faked her abduction and then used the hire car weeks later to move her body to a burial location."

So within the constraints under which the MSM operate, not bad. Apart from the obvious inaccuracies, of course

by Guest 06.09.14 10:24

PeterMac wrote:

And then, for clarification, he spells out a very credible and possibly the simplest and most reasonable scenario "The Portuguese police came up with the theory that Madeleine had been killed by her parents by accident, possibly by being given an overdose of a sedative to make her sleep, that they had hidden the body, faked her abduction and then used the hire car weeks later to move her body to a burial location."

So within the constraints under which the MSM operate, not bad.

Not sure on the law,but is this the first time this scenario as been aired in the MSM and as such is no longer libellous.It will have been run past the lawyers for certain wouldn't it.

by Bishop Brennan 06.09.14 10:35

WMD wrote:
PeterMac wrote:

And then, for clarification, he spells out a very credible and possibly the simplest and most reasonable scenario "The Portuguese police came up with the theory that Madeleine had been killed by her parents by accident, possibly by being given an overdose of a sedative to make her sleep, that they had hidden the body, faked her abduction and then used the hire car weeks later to move her body to a burial location."

So within the constraints under which the MSM operate, not bad.
Not sure on the law,but is this the first time this scenario as been aired in the MSM and as such is no longer libellous.It will have been run past the lawyers for certain wouldn't it.

Very carefully checked by the lawyers you may be certain! And yes, probably the clearest summary of the PJ case since the early days of 2007/08 in the Express. As it turned out (upon release of the PJ files) a lot of what the Express printed was accurate, and now that those files are public record, libel is easy to avoid for an experienced journalist + newspaper lawyer.

Having mentioned the dogs, attention will now turn to the new book which will presumably discredit them roundly.

by **PeterMac** 06.09.14 10:42

WMD wrote:
PeterMac wrote:

And then, for clarification, he spells out a very credible and possibly the simplest and most reasonable scenario "The Portuguese police came up with the theory that Madeleine had been killed by her parents by accident, possibly by being given an overdose of a sedative to make her sleep, that they had hidden the body, faked her abduction and then used the hire car weeks later to move her body to a burial location."
So within the constraints under which the MSM operate, not bad.
Not sure on the law,but is this the first time this scenario as been aired in the MSM and as such is no longer libellous.It will have been run past the lawyers for certain wouldn't it.

Interestingly NOTHING has ever been held to be libellous.
McCanns - v - Bennett was about procedure and breach of undertaking, and very cleverly Carter- Ruck managed it so that the issue of the facts and/or libel was never heard.
That is their speciality.
The Press settled out of court to the McCanns and others, so the issue was again never raised
The trial in Portugal is about damages, not libel

So we have no idea what would, or would not be held to be libellous, as opposed to genuinely held opinion, or 'truth' for example - which are the usual defences available under English law.

by Guest 06.09.14 11:06

Thank you Bishop and Peter.Just get the feeling now that there as been a shift in what is being printed and said.

by Markus 2 06.09.14 11:42

sallypelt The Irish element in this sorry saga is interesting, to say the least. JG is Irish. Summers is "long based in Ireland". Martin Smith also lives in Ireland, and if we are to believe this above Wiki article that Summers is a meticulous researcher, and will burrow away for years to get to the truth, then he MUST have spoken to Martin Smith.

The Occult History of Ireland...An Introduction, by Michael ...
www.taroscopes.com/miscellanous-pages/briefhistoryireland.html
Green on one side, orange on the other and in the middle a white band. Do we ... Could they be the Knights Templar whose history goes back to the Culdeans, .
I have wondered about this before, the white orange and green balloons at the church for Madeline, right from the off. The Find Madeline website green and orange ribbon.

by jeanmonroe 06.09.14 11:51

Does anyone know if Clarence Mitchell has described S&S, the authors, as 'despicible, deplorable, disgusting, greedy, unhelpful, self serving, etc.,' with regards to their book?

We all know what CM thinks about 'greedy, money grabbing' people who 'seek to personally benefit' from the 'plight of poor Madeleine'

That is anyone OTHER than his own paymasters, who pay his 'retainer', from THEIR private 'Madeleine Fund', of £28,000pa!

The irony of the 'title' of S&S book, LOOKING for Madeleine, will not be lost on the Great British 'public'

Who have pointed out on numerous occaisions what EXACTLY did Madeleine's own parents, their entire family members, the McCann 'friends' (T7) actually do in their quest for 'looking' for Madeleine!

The 'friends' ran around the apartment block, so they SAY, and the kiddies room for a few minutes, and NOTHING since.

The McCann and Healy 'families' did not 'look' ANYWHERE, for their 'missing' family member, while in PDL.

I wonder what derogatory words, CM will use to describe the authors, S&S, 'motives' to PROFIT themselves, from a 'missing' childs 'disappearance'

thinking

by XTC 06.09.14 22:24

Markus 2 wrote:sallypelt The Irish element in this sorry saga is interesting, to say the least. JG is Irish. Summers is "long based in Ireland". Martin Smith also lives in Ireland, and if we are to believe this above Wiki article that Summers is a meticulous researcher, and will burrow away for years to get to the truth, then he MUST have spoken to Martin Smith.

The Occult History of Ireland...An Introduction, by Michael ...
www.taroscopes.com/miscellanous-pages/briefhistoryireland.html
Green on one side, orange on the other and in the middle a white band. Do we ... Could they be the Knights Templar whose history goes back to the Culdeans, .
I have wondered about this before, the white orange and green balloons at the church for Madeline, right from the off. The Find Madeline website green and orange ribbon.

Markus2

There does appear to be a lot of Irish connections in this tale via Northern Ireland and Eire.

Just a quick look at the surnames is interesting.

There are many generational connections to Ireland in the North West. Liverpool and Manchester being notable areas of many ex pat
Irish people over the years.

Which leads me to perhaps a naive but genuinely curious question:

As far as spys and spooks go I'm wet behind the ears. With politicians I'm not.

MI5 ( as far as I'm aware ) deal with UK Domestic matters but I believe ( due to the IRA and Irish Republicanism in general) that Ireland
does not come into the 'International ' orbit of MI6. It is considered a ' Domestic ' area.

If for example MI5 were waiting to question Martin Grimes on his arrival back in the UK why didn't MI6 question him in Portugal?

I have not heard a mention of MI6 in this investigation ( I could be wrong) and being as " the crime " was committed on Foreign soil why weren't MI6 involved from the start? They investigate ' Foreign ' matters- don't they?

Bearing in mind the possible connections, could this mean that the origin of this story belongs in the UK/Ireland?

In other words is this saga more about the connections rather than the fate of Madeleine and how she " dis-appeared?"

p.s .

A further possibly naive question:

I have read and seen the Palmeras Golf Course incident where RM's mobile was ' pinged ' showing him in that area 6 hours before Madeleine
went missing. It is also said that his mobile was turned off for 32 hours. Allegedly so was Mr McCanns and both mobiles were switched on and off within 6 minutes of each other.

My question is that: being as RM's mobile was pinged on the the 3rd was Mr McCann's mobile ' pinged ' in the same way?

Or was RM's mobile a Portuguese provider and Mr McCann's a British provider?

One for this froum and one for DI Redwood and his team - should they care to look?

All the above is pure theory though.

by **sharonl** 06.09.14 22:48

Seems that Co-Author Robbyn Swan contributes to Vanity Fair and also is also a consultant for the BBC

Anthony Summers is former deputy editor at Panorama

'Portugal Resident' comments on that Summers and Swan book - and suggest it's just 'propaganda'