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'Portugal Resident' comments on that Summers and Swan book - and suggest it's just 'propaganda' - Page 5 Mm11

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'Portugal Resident' comments on that Summers and Swan book - and suggest it's just 'propaganda'

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Post by Tony Bennett on 05.09.14 11:15

@TheTruthWillOut wrote:This is what I don't get Tony:

Everything had been going swimmingly until Dr Goncalo Amaral by-passed this co-ordination group and, with the help of Mark Harrison and Lee Rainbow, got Martin Grime on board.

Why, if the government and their agencies were controlling and containing everything, would they allow GA to go behind their back and get Harrison, Rainbow and Grime in?
@ TheTruthWillOut

IMO the co-ordinating group and the government controlled a huge amount, but not everything.

Alternatively, the co-ordinating group DID know about Amaral's approach for Martin Grime - and decided they'd better let Grime go out to Portugal and not risk Amaral saying: "I wanted Martin Grime out in Portugal, but they refused".  

Alternatively again, was Martin Grime doing private work at this time? -if so, no-one could stop Amaral employing him.

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie Mcann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by jeanmonroe on 05.09.14 11:17

One 'wonders' IF we'll ever read, in a book, written by an ex Portuguese detective, about the second 'investigation', should it be re-shelved, due to lack of 'evidence', with the MET Police after the un-shelving, of the first investigation, into a defenceless little child's 'disappearance', the following:

"We prefer not to discuss this with Detective Chief Inspector Andrew Redwood (of Metropolitan Police) we have the impression that he is  only here to accompany the McCanns' interrogations and to prevent their detention. His concern on that subject is obvious."

ALA:

GA:
"We prefer not to discuss this with Detective Superintedent Stuart Prior, (of Leicestershire Police): we have the impression that he is only here to accompany the McCanns' interrogations and to prevent their detention. His concern on that subject is obvious."
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Post by tigger on 05.09.14 11:36

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@TheTruthWillOut wrote:This is what I don't get Tony:

Everything had been going swimmingly until Dr Goncalo Amaral by-passed this co-ordination group and, with the help of Mark Harrison and Lee Rainbow, got Martin Grime on board.

Why, if the government and their agencies were controlling and containing everything, would they allow GA to go behind their back and get Harrison, Rainbow and Grime in?
@ TheTruthWillOut

IMO the co-ordinating group and the government controlled a huge amount, but not everything.

Alternatively, the co-ordinating group DID know about Amaral's approach for Martin Grime - and decided they'd better let Grime go out to Portugal and not risk Amaral saying: "I wanted Martin Grime out in Portugal, but they refused".  

Alternatively again, was Martin Grime doing private work at this time? -if so, no-one could stop Amaral employing him.

From the truth of the lie: 
Harrison also suggests that we use the skills of two totally remarkable dogs: the first an EVRD (Enhanced Victim Recovery Dog), achieves outstanding performance in the detection of human cadaver odour; the second, a CSI dog (Crime Scene Investigation) is capable of smelling the tiniest trace of blood, knowing how to recognise its human origin. To convince us of their capability and the extraordinary work carried out by these very special detectives in the course of over 200 investigations, he screens a video for us, showing their training and their intervention on the ground.

He suggests that we start the operations with the inspection of apartment 5A, then those occupied by the McCanns' friends. Robert Murat's house will also be subjected to thorough examination. In addition, all the vehicles used by all of them will be sniffed by the dogs.
unquote

I really find it a theory too far that Dr. Amaral ordered help in a personal capacity. That implies that GA lied in his book and that he had plenty of money to spare to pay for this event.

and here is the relevant part of Grimes' rogatory: 


cr3_22
'Portugal Resident' comments on that Summers and Swan book - and suggest it's just 'propaganda' - Page 5 Cr3_21_small
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'Portugal Resident' comments on that Summers and Swan book - and suggest it's just 'propaganda' - Page 5 Cr3_23_small
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'Portugal Resident' comments on that Summers and Swan book - and suggest it's just 'propaganda' - Page 5 Cr3_24_small
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'Portugal Resident' comments on that Summers and Swan book - and suggest it's just 'propaganda' - Page 5 Cr3_25_small
Translation
DVD Rogatory Letters 3rd volume
Martin Grime


Dated May 14 2008

I am a retired police offer, previously at the service of the South Yorkshire police. Between August 1-8, 2007,
and while working for the South Yorkshire police, I collaborated with the Judicial Police, Portugal, as regards their Operations Task Force.

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Post by TheTruthWillOut on 05.09.14 11:48

Yes Tony, Grime I guess is the one that could have been contracted by the PJ (hence two out of three)

Like I say though, to let Rainbow and Harrison go out there at all just doesn't fit with everything else. These three men are key players in this and isn't it interesting that Grime and Harrison left the UK police and now work abroad.

These UK agencies publicly refused the PJ simple background information on the M's yet allowed two top investigators to go over and, has it turned out, produce reports that were pretty damaging to the M's?
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Post by plebgate on 05.09.14 11:52

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Brian Griffin wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
REPLY: That's correct, but by and large we don't do it. We talk to each other endlessly on this and other forums, making this point and that point, but that's it. By and large we don't highlight our concerns outside and beyond the discussions on here. The mainstream media have a story to sell and they are not a blind bit interested in the points made here, no matter how powerful they are. We mostly just talk to each other inside our internet 'bubble'
Good point. So why don't people (Tony excepted for obvious reasons) write their own books based on the facts as they see them, and publish them?
Fear?
I think that is it exactly - fear- and that IMO is why Tony and Rocky had to be taken to court. 

They have fought back but at what cost and let's face it, most commentators do not want to risk their family (having seen what has happened to Tony and Rocky), and their incomes.

That  is why I am hoping that Rocky wins this case, nobody should be made to feel fear simply for asking questions and pointing out inconsistencies when the very same people who threaten this court action are the ones who asked for help in finding out what happened to their daughter.

Ask for help then I believe they should expect questions to be asked, questions that they might not want to hear  but questions which might ultimately help find out what happened to little Maddie.  

Oh yes, I very much believe that the fear factor is why more people do not publish books about this case.
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Post by Markus 2 on 05.09.14 14:31

@sallypelt wrote:
@sallypelt wrote:I don't know if this has already been discussed on this thread, but I've been reading on Wiki that Summers once worked for the BBC's Panorama. This is taken from Wikipedia:

Anthony Bruce Summers (21 December 1942) is a Pulitzer Prize Finalist and author of eight best-selling non-fiction books.[1] He is an Irish citizen, and has been working for more than twenty years with Robbyn Swan, who is his co-author and fourth wife.[2] After studying modern languages at Oxford University, his early work took him from labouring jobs to freelance reporting to London newspapers, to Granada TV's World in Action[3] – the UK's first tabloid public affairs programme, to writing the news for the Swiss Broadcasting Corporation, then back to England to the BBC's 24 Hours, a pioneering late evening show that brought viewers coverage from all over the world. Summers became the BBC's youngest producer at 24, travelling worldwide and sending filmed reports from the conflicts in Vietnam and the Middle East, and across Latin America.[3][4][5] A main focus, though, was on the momentous events of the 60s and 70s in the United States – with on-the-spot reports on Martin Luther King's assassination and on Robert F. Kennedy's bid for the presidency. He smuggled cameras into the then Soviet Union to obtain the only TV interview with dissident physicist Andrei Sakharov – when he was under house arrest, having just won the Nobel Prize.[3] Before moving on from the BBC, Summers became an Assistant Editor of the prestigious weekly programme Panorama. Long based in Ireland, he has since the mid-70s concentrated on investigative non-fiction, usually taking from four to five years to produce a book – conducting in-depth research, combining digging in the documentary record with exhaustive interviewing


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Summers

The Irish element in this sorry saga is interesting, to say the least. JG is Irish. Summers is "long based in Ireland". Martin Smith also lives in Ireland, and if we are to believe this above Wiki article that Summers is a meticulous researcher, and will burrow away for years to get to the truth, then he MUST have spoken to Martin Smith.

You also have Bridget O'Donnell  Irish author, bbc,Mills an Boon like. titter any connection with this lot I wonder

Robbyn Swan, who is his co-author and fourth wife
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Post by tigger on 05.09.14 14:43

@tigger wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@TheTruthWillOut wrote:This is what I don't get Tony:

Everything had been going swimmingly until Dr Goncalo Amaral by-passed this co-ordination group and, with the help of Mark Harrison and Lee Rainbow, got Martin Grime on board.

Why, if the government and their agencies were controlling and containing everything, would they allow GA to go behind their back and get Harrison, Rainbow and Grime in?
@ TheTruthWillOut

IMO the co-ordinating group and the government controlled a huge amount, but not everything.

Alternatively, the co-ordinating group DID know about Amaral's approach for Martin Grime - and decided they'd better let Grime go out to Portugal and not risk Amaral saying: "I wanted Martin Grime out in Portugal, but they refused".  

Alternatively again, was Martin Grime doing private work at this time? -if so, no-one could stop Amaral employing him.

From the truth of the lie: 
Harrison also suggests that we use the skills of two totally remarkable dogs: the first an EVRD (Enhanced Victim Recovery Dog), achieves outstanding performance in the detection of human cadaver odour; the second, a CSI dog (Crime Scene Investigation) is capable of smelling the tiniest trace of blood, knowing how to recognise its human origin. To convince us of their capability and the extraordinary work carried out by these very special detectives in the course of over 200 investigations, he screens a video for us, showing their training and their intervention on the ground.

He suggests that we start the operations with the inspection of apartment 5A, then those occupied by the McCanns' friends. Robert Murat's house will also be subjected to thorough examination. In addition, all the vehicles used by all of them will be sniffed by the dogs.
unquote

I really find it a theory too far that Dr. Amaral ordered help in a personal capacity. That implies that GA lied in his book and that he had plenty of money to spare to pay for this event.

and here is the relevant part of martin Grimes' rogatory where he CLEARLY states he was working for the SY police and collaborated with the PJ.


[/tr]
[tr][td][url=http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/CR3/cr3_22.jpg][

DVD Rogatory Letters 3rd volume
Martin Grime[/b]

Dated May 14 2008

I am a retired police offer, previously at the service of the South Yorkshire police. Between August 1-8, 2007, [/font][/color][/size]and while working for the South Yorkshire police, I collaborated with the Judicial Police, Portugal, as regards their Operations Task Force.

(Quoting myself above)


It beats me how this could be interpreted as Grimes having been hired in a private capacity by GA or due to GA's initiative as he consistently uses the plural and Grimes too states that he was collaborating with the PJ.



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Post by Bishop Brennan on 05.09.14 16:22

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@TheTruthWillOut wrote:This is what I don't get Tony:

Everything had been going swimmingly until Dr Goncalo Amaral by-passed this co-ordination group and, with the help of Mark Harrison and Lee Rainbow, got Martin Grime on board.

Why, if the government and their agencies were controlling and containing everything, would they allow GA to go behind their back and get Harrison, Rainbow and Grime in?
@ TheTruthWillOut

IMO the co-ordinating group and the government controlled a huge amount, but not everything.

Alternatively, the co-ordinating group DID know about Amaral's approach for Martin Grime - and decided they'd better let Grime go out to Portugal and not risk Amaral saying: "I wanted Martin Grime out in Portugal, but they refused".  

Alternatively again, was Martin Grime doing private work at this time? -if so, no-one could stop Amaral employing him.

The other possible explanation is that nobody on the main control team envisaged just how damning the dogs evidence would be. When the request came in they perhaps thought that nothing of note would be discovered. How wrong they were, and the evidence from both dogs was devastating. So much so that an immediate and sustained set of recovery actions were put in place.

They were almost too late with the FSS report which mysteriously had to be updated - presumably after the exec group read that first report! And in the current environment, the OG tactic for the past 3 years has been to never, ever under any circumstances mention the dogs. A tactic fully supported by every single print, tv and radio media outlet in the UK.

The new book will have to deal with the dogs. It will have been the most closely edited and controlled chapter of the entire book. It may in fact be the primary reason for the book being commissioned at all.
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Post by Tony Bennett on 05.09.14 17:22

@Bishop Brennan wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@TheTruthWillOut wrote:This is what I don't get Tony:
Everything had been going swimmingly until Dr Goncalo Amaral by-passed this co-ordination group and, with the help of Mark Harrison and Lee Rainbow, got Martin Grime on board.

Why, if the government and their agencies were controlling and containing everything, would they allow GA to go behind their back and get Harrison, Rainbow and Grime in?
@ TheTruthWillOut

IMO the co-ordinating group and the government controlled a huge amount, but not everything.

Alternatively, the co-ordinating group DID know about Amaral's approach for Martin Grime - and decided they'd better let Grime go out to Portugal and not risk Amaral saying: "I wanted Martin Grime out in Portugal, but they refused".  

Alternatively again, was Martin Grime doing private work at this time? -if so, no-one could stop Amaral employing him.
The other possible explanation is that nobody on the main control team envisaged just how damning the dogs evidence would be.  When the request came in they perhaps thought that nothing of note would be discovered.  

Agreed that this is indeed a fourth possibility.  Incidentally it is not absolutely clear from tigger's posts above whether any contract to hire Martin Grime was between the PJ and South Yorkshire, or between the PJ and Martin Grime direct - but it doesn't matter, somehow Amaral by-passed the tight control of the 'co-ordinating group'.

Unless, as you say, they grossly underestimated the impact of what the dogs might find. Maybe also they had no idea at the time that the Portuguese Police would release all those damning Martin Grime videos of Eddie & Keela at Apartment 5A, the villa, and in the car compound.
  
 
How wrong they were, and the evidence from both dogs was devastating.  So much so that an immediate and sustained set of recovery actions were put in place.  

They were almost too late with the FSS report which mysteriously had to be updated - presumably after the exec group read that first report!  

I recall on the old 3As forum that a poster called 'Gestalt' - who pretended to be an expert on blood, body fluids and DNA - expended huge amounts of time and energy basically trying to prove that there never was a 'first report'

And in the current environment, the OG tactic for the past 3 years has been to never, ever under any circumstances mention the dogs. A tactic fully supported by every single print, tv and radio media outlet in the UK.

Agreed. As if it would be instant dismissal for any journalist who dared utter the word 'dog'.   

The new book will have to deal with the dogs.  It will have been the most closely edited and controlled chapter of the entire book.  It may in fact be the primary reason for the book being commissioned at all.  

Here is where I tend to disagree. Unless Martin Grime has been bludgeoned into submission and recants in some way, the dogs' evidence is so strong that I suggest the 'co-ordinating group' who has written this book - and got Summers & Swan to add their names to it - will probably have taken the wiser course of hardly mentioning the dogs' evidence (in much the same way as Dr Kate McCann dismissed it in her book) rather than, so to speak, confront Martin Grime head-on 

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie Mcann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by canada12 on 05.09.14 20:42

Tony Bennett wrote:
Unless Martin Grime has been bludgeoned into submission and recants in some way, the dogs' evidence is so strong that I suggest the 'co-ordinating group' who has written this book - and got Summers & Swan to add their names to it - will probably have taken the wiser course of hardly mentioning the dogs' evidence (in much the same way as Dr Kate McCann dismissed it in her book) rather than, so to speak, confront Martin Grime head-on 


Interesting that Gerry tried his damndest to get the dogs entered into the public record and in print at the last session of the libel trial! Was this a departure from the above procedure...? He was hell bent on insisting that the dogs were wrong!
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Post by Markus 2 on 05.09.14 20:47

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/11078595/Madeleine-McCann-are-we-any-closer-to-knowing-the-truth.html
unbiased article imo. This is going to forever remain a mystery until someone talks


Madeleine McCann: are we any closer to knowing the truth?
Ever since she disappeared in May 2007, the image of Madeleine McCann has remained burned on our national consciousness. How close are police to finding out the truth?
madeleine mccann
Madeleine McCann vanished without trace in May 2007 Photo: PA
Gordon Rayner

By Gordon Rayner, Chief Reporter

8:09PM BST 05 Sep 2014

In the seven years since Madeleine McCann went missing from a holiday apartment in Portugal, myriad theories about what happened to her have taken root, but only one fact remains uncontested: that she was reported missing at 10.14pm on the evening of Thursday, May 3, 2007.

It was at that point, when police were called, that the clock started ticking on the biggest missing persons investigation for decades, a search which remains very much active to this day.

Facts, the hard currency of any police investigation, have proved almost uniquely elusive; every sighting, every timing and every witness statement has been disputed in the years that have elapsed since.

Madeleine’s parents Kate and Gerry McCann quickly came under suspicion by Portuguese police, a development that the couple are certain meant vital clues were missed in the first hours and days after Madeleine’s disappearance.

Every possible theory has been explored since then: that Madeleine was abducted by a paedophile; that she was killed during a bungled burglary and her body dumped; that she was abducted by traffickers and sold to a childless couple; that she wandered out of the apartment and died in a tragic accident, and many more besides.
Related Articles

To date, however, not one shred of proof of what happened to Madeleine has been unearthed. The question of what happened to Madeleine would become not only a personal tragedy for the McCann family, but a national obsession in the UK and in Portugal.

Madeleine, of Rothley, Leicestershire, was on the penultimate day of her family holiday on the day she vanished. She had spent part of the day playing by the swimming pool in the Ocean Club resort, where the last known picture of her was taken at 2.29pm.

Reports of when she was last seen alive by independent witnesses vary, but she was still alive at around 6pm, when she and her parents went into their apartment at 5A Rua Dr Agostinho da Silva, where Madeleine and her two-year-old twin brother and sister were readied for bed.

The McCanns told police they put the children to bed at around 7pm, and that all three were asleep by 8.30pm, when they went for dinner at a tapas bar 50 yards across the pool from their apartment. There they met seven friends with whom they were on holiday.

Kate and Gerry McCann

The McCanns say checks were made on their children every half-hour, sometimes by other members of the party, comprising Dr Russell O'Brien and Jane Tanner, from Exeter, Dr Matthew and Rachael Oldfield, from London, and David and Fiona Payne, from Leicester, together with Mrs Payne's mother Dianne Webster. Mrs Webster, however, reportedly told police that each couple was responsible for checking their own children.

Gerry McCann went to the apartment at 9.05pm, when all the children were sleeping soundly and Madeleine was still in her bed, he says.

The police in Portugal, however, have never accepted the McCanns’ evidence as undisputed. They initially regarded the McCanns as suspects, and believed the McCanns could have killed Madeleine any time after the last independent sighting of her at 6pm.

Dr Matthew Oldfield went into apartment 5A at 9.30pm, and noticed that Madeleine’s room seemed lighter than the others, as if the shutters had been partially opened. He could not be certain whether Madeleine was there.

Kate McCann was next to check on the children, at 10pm. She ran back to the restaurant moments later, saying Madeleine was missing. The McCanns and their friends made a quick search of the resort, but after finding no sign of Madeleine the police were called at 10.14pm.

The McCanns told police they had put Madeleine to bed with her pink comfort blanket and favourite soft toy, Cuddle Cat, and was wearing short-sleeved Marks & Spencer Eeyore pyjamas.

The bed where Madeleine had been sleeping when she went missing

Crucially, however, the apartment was not initially treated as a crime scene, meaning around 20 people went in and out before it was sealed off, contaminating potential evidence. Roadblocks were not put in place until 10am the next day, border guards were not informed for hours and Interpol did not put out a global missing persons alert for five days.

It meant that the most crucial time of any missing persons investigation – the first 24 hours – were largely squandered, and police have been trying to catch up ever since. Yet potentially key sightings and artists’ impressions of suspects were kept from the public for years.

Mary and Martin Smith, from Ireland, told police they saw a man carrying a child matching Madeleine’s description at around 10pm on Rua da Escola Primaria, 500 yards from the McCanns’ apartment. He was heading towards the beach, did not look like a tourist and did not seem comfortable carrying the child, they said.

Their evidence was compelling, but it was only in October 2013 that two e-fit images of the man, compiled by police from descriptions given by Mr and Mrs Smith, were released by Scotland Yard to coincide with a BBC Crimewatch reconstruction of Madeleine’s disappearance. He remains a suspect.

Two police e-fits of the man described by the Smiths

There were also blind alleys. Jane Tanner, one of the tapas diners, told police that when she left the restaurant at 9.15pm to check on her own daughter, she saw a man carrying a small child, wearing pink pyjamas, in his arms.

For years afterwards, the mystery man would be a key suspect, if not the prime suspect, but in October 2013 the Metropolitan Police announced that a British holidaymaker who had been taking his daughter back to his apartment after picking her up from an evening crèche, had been identified as the man Miss Tanner had seen and ruled out of the inquiry.

Madeleine and, right, the man seen by Jane Tanner. He has since been traced and ruled out

The first person to become an “arguido”, or official suspect, was Robert Murat, a local property consultant, whose home was searched 12 days after the disappearance. He was formally cleared of suspicion in 2008 and won £600,000 in libel damages from 11 British newspapers.

The Portuguese Police, however, were suspicious of the McCanns from the beginning, partly due to a clash of cultures. They could not believe that parents would leave their children unattended, and did not approve of the McCanns’ use of the media to raise the profile of the case, in a country where secrecy is the hallmark of all police investigations.

The arrival of two British sniffer dogs in Portugal in July 2007 only hardened that belief. One dog was trained to sniff out traces of human blood, the other was trained to sniff out the scent of dead bodies. Both dogs were taken to several locations connected to the investigation, and gave alerts only in apartment 5A. Later, the cadaver dog gave an alert inside a Renault car, hired by the McCanns 24 days after Madeleine went missing.

DNA tests on samples taken from the car proved inconclusive, but the Portuguese police wrongly told journalists they were a “100 per cent match” for Madeleine.

The Portuguese police came up with the theory that Madeleine had been killed by her parents by accident, possibly by being given an overdose of a sedative to make her sleep, that they had hidden the body, faked her abduction and then used the hire car weeks later to move her body to a burial location.

In early September 2007, according to Kate McCann, she was told by the Portuguese police that if she admitted that Madeleine had died in the apartment and she had hidden her body she might only serve a two-year sentence and Gerry McCann would not be charged at all. On September 7 the couple were both made arguidos.

Goncalo Amaral, the chief inspector who had been in charge of the case, resigned in 2008 to write a book alleging that Madeleine had died in an accident in the apartment and the McCanns had faked the abduction. The McCanns sued him for libel, with the court expected to make its decision late in 2014.

In July 2008 the Portuguese attorney general announced that the McCanns were no longer suspects and the investigation was closed. The McCanns hired private investigators to carry on the search, but it was not until May 2011 that Theresa May, the Home Secretary, announced that Scotland Yard would review the evidence in the case, which had until then been the responsibility of Leicestershire Police, working with the Portuguese authorities.

In July 2013 Operation Grange, the review of the available evidence, became a full-blown criminal inquiry, and Scotland Yard said it was concentrating on a “criminal act by a stranger”.

The Yard announced it was looking into possible links between Madeleine’s disappearance and bogus charity collectors who were knocking on doors in Praia da Luz at the time. Between 3.30pm and 5.30pm on the day in question there were four separate sightings of men who said they were collecting money for an orphanage. British detectives believe men whose photofits they released in 2013 may have been engaged in reconnaissance for a pre-planned abduction or for burglaries, in keeping with the theory that Madeleine may have been killed by a burglar she disturbed.

Is this how Madeleine would look today?

Scotland Yard also said in 2013 it was eager to trace a blond-haired man who had been seen loitering in the area on April 30 and May 2, looking at apartment 1A. He was described as “ugly” with a spotty complexion and a large nose. Two blond-haired men were seen on the balcony of the empty apartment 5C, two doors from 5A, at 2.30pm on the day of the disappearance. Blond men were seen again near 5A at 4pm and 6pm that day, and at 11pm that night. Following the appeal on Crimewatch, the Portuguese police re-opened their own investigation.

Scotland Yard officers travelled to Portugal in 2014 to interview four suspects and carried out searches of the area around the apartment using ground-penetrating radar. One of the men who was interview has since been eliminated from the inquiry, but the other three men remain arguidos.

The British officers questioned them on suspicion of being part of a burglary gang that panicked after killing Madeleine during a bungled break-in. They all protested their innocence and were released without charge.

Another suspect was Euclides Monteiro, a convicted burglar with a drug habit, who had been sacked from the Ocean Club in 2006. Mobile phone tracking showed he had been in the area on the night of the disappearance, and police believe he may have been burgling apartments there to fund his drug addiction. He died in a tractor accident in 2009.

In March 2014 Scotland Yard announced that a lone intruder sexually assaulted five girls aged between seven and 10 in the Algarve between 2004 and 2006. The man, who has never been caught, was said to have a “very, very unhealthy interest” in young white girls.

The four incidents, one of which involved two girls, were among 12 in which men had entered holiday accommodation in the area, including two incidents in Praia da Luz. The force also said it was looking at 38 “people of interest” and were researching the backgrounds of 530 known sex offenders, including 59 regarded as high interest.

Kate and Gerry McCann remain convinced their daughter is alive and that they will one day be reunited. The hunt to find her continues.
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Post by Varriott on 05.09.14 21:19

The Telegraph article is only unbiased in comparison to all other articles.  It still contains a number of misleading comments and outright inaccuracies, obvious to even casual observers like us.  Still, it mentions the dogs and doesn't quite say (although it does imply) that the saintly couple are obviously innocent.  So, a step forward maybe.  I still await the day when someone can write an objective article in the MSM.  Still waiting.... anyone?
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Post by Guest on 05.09.14 21:39

Is the article about publicity because of the forthcoming book,there is nothing new in the article.
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Post by Markus 2 on 05.09.14 21:49

WMD wrote:Is the article about publicity because of the forthcoming book,there is nothing new in the article.

I can't see that he is letting anyone off the hook, but jmo, who knows he may not agree with the forthcoming book and the content.

The police in Portugal, however, have never accepted the McCanns’ evidence as undisputed. They initially regarded the McCanns as suspects, and believed the McCanns could have killed Madeleine any time after the last independent sighting of her at 6pm.

Dr Matthew Oldfield went into apartment 5A at 9.30pm, and noticed that Madeleine’s room seemed lighter than the others, as if the shutters had been partially opened. He could not be certain whether Madeleine was there.
This is so bizarre , he went to check but did not check even though it seemed strange to him  at the time.
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Post by canada12 on 05.09.14 21:58

He does qualify mostly everything the McCanns have claimed with phrases like "he says" and "The McCanns told the police". Which to me indicates a smidgen of doubt about what the McCanns have claimed as fact. Or at least the qualifier that this is what they have claimed, rather than what is accepted as fact.
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Post by Guest on 05.09.14 22:10

@canada12 wrote:He does qualify mostly everything the McCanns have claimed with phrases like "he says" and "The McCanns told the police". Which to me indicates a smidgen of doubt about what the McCanns have claimed as fact. Or at least the qualifier that this is what they have claimed, rather than what is accepted as fact.
The first paragraph stands out to me, that she was reported missing,not that she was abducted, just reported missing,


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In the seven years since Madeleine McCann went missing from a holiday
apartment in Portugal, myriad theories about what happened to her have
taken root, but only one fact remains uncontested: that she was reported
 missing at 10.14pm on the evening of Thursday, May 3, 2007.
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Post by Tony Bennett on 05.09.14 22:14

@canada12 wrote:He does qualify mostly everything the McCanns have claimed with phrases like "he says" and "The McCanns told the police". Which to me indicates a smidgen of doubt about what the McCanns have claimed as fact. Or at least the qualifier that this is what they have claimed, rather than what is accepted as fact.
Gordon Rayner spent a day in the conservatory at my home in early 2007 as I was in the middle of writing my book 'Getting Away With Murder' on the murder of Stuart Lubbock at Michael Barrymore's home on 1 April 2001. He looked at original source material and at my analyses. He was a very courteous, perceptive and meticulous journalist who at that time was working for the Daily Mail - soon afterwards he was promoted to the Daily Telegraph.

The Daily Mail had been considering serialising my book, but the News of the World got there first (I know, I know - and to make it even worse, Andy Coulson was the paper's editor at the time). Gordon used quite a lot of my material in subsequent Daily Mail articles on the case.

Although as has been said, Gordon Rayner's piece carefully uses phrases such as 'he says', 'was told', 'is claimed' etc., it is still sad to see that the fearsome laws of libel and no doubt editorial instructions have forced this otherwise thorough journalist of integrity to have got so many facts wrong, and left out so much.

Tragic,

At least he uses the phrase 'reported missing' in the intorduction, the phrase I have used consistently for four years to refer to Madeleine's disappearance - as it is simply the most accurate

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Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie Mcann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by TheTruthWillOut on 05.09.14 22:28

@canada12 wrote:He does qualify mostly everything the McCanns have claimed with phrases like "he says" and "The McCanns told the police". Which to me indicates a smidgen of doubt about what the McCanns have claimed as fact. Or at least the qualifier that this is what they have claimed, rather than what is accepted as fact.

Another thing that has to be taken into account is on more than one occasion, SY have pleaded with the the press not to report speculation. Whether that is for good reasons or not, I don't know.

I honestly can't see it being plausible that all press would comply with such a request so thoroughly without very good reason. Just look at the BBC/Cliff saga at how strongly the press resist being kept quiet even in high profile/sensitive cases.
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Post by Okeydokey on 05.09.14 22:53

"Crucially, however, the apartment was not initially treated as a crime scene, meaning around 20 people went in and out before it was sealed off, contaminating potential evidence."

Educated doctors and other professionals don't realise the importance of treating a scene of a crime (abduction) as a crime scene? Seems unlikely.

But, even so, they are overegging the pudding. If, for instance, blood was found behind a sofa, it is unlikely that that particular area of the apartment would have been "contaminated" in any meaningful sense.

And that makes me wonder why some people (who?) are so eager, so very eager, to stress how contaminated the crime scene was. Obviously it can't be the "abductors" because they don't have a voice. So who is it trying to overemphasise the contamination problem?
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Post by Okeydokey on 05.09.14 22:56

@canada12 wrote:Tony Bennett wrote:
Unless Martin Grime has been bludgeoned into submission and recants in some way, the dogs' evidence is so strong that I suggest the 'co-ordinating group' who has written this book - and got Summers & Swan to add their names to it - will probably have taken the wiser course of hardly mentioning the dogs' evidence (in much the same way as Dr Kate McCann dismissed it in her book) rather than, so to speak, confront Martin Grime head-on 


Interesting that Gerry tried his damndest to get the dogs entered into the public record and in print at the last session of the libel trial! Was this a departure from the above procedure...? He was hell bent on insisting that the dogs were wrong!

Yep, the dogs' evidence is crucial. As is the MO claim he could see the twins' breathing from 8 feet away through mesh sides of the cots in semi-darkness. As is why the Tapas 9 didn't search in the direction indicated by Jane Tanner's "sighting" of the alleged abductor.




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Post by Okeydokey on 05.09.14 23:03

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@canada12 wrote:He does qualify mostly everything the McCanns have claimed with phrases like "he says" and "The McCanns told the police". Which to me indicates a smidgen of doubt about what the McCanns have claimed as fact. Or at least the qualifier that this is what they have claimed, rather than what is accepted as fact.
Gordon Rayner spent a day in the conservatory at my home in early 2007 as I was in the middle of writing my book 'Getting Away With Murder' on the murder of Stuart Lubbock at Michael Barrymore's home on 1 April 2001. He looked at original source material and at my analyses. He was a very courteous, perceptive and meticulous journalist who at that time was working for the Daily Mail - soon afterwards he was promoted to the Daily Telegraph.

The Daily Mail had been considering serialising my book, but the News of the World got there first (I know, I know - and to make it even worse, Andy Coulson was the paper's editor at the time). Gordon used quite a lot of my material in subsequent Daily Mail articles on the case.

Although as has been said, Gordon Rayner's piece carefully uses phrases such as 'he says', 'was told', 'is claimed' etc., it is still sad to see that the fearsome laws of libel and no doubt editorial instructions have forced this otherwise thorough journalist of integrity to have got so many facts wrong, and left out so much.

Tragic, At least he uses the phrase 'reported missing' in the intorduction, the phrase I have used consistently for four years to refer to Madeleine's disappearance - as it is simply the most accurate

Tragic is the right word, Tony.

The only thing that keeps me following this case is the terrible damage it has had (and is continuing to have) on our (now fragile) culture of free speech, free thought and a free press. It is like we have all (almost all) been recruited into some horrific cult where we have to believe ten items of nonsense before breakfast each day.

If you value freedom you have to fight the McCann grip on the narrative. Whether you fight it big like Tony has or in small ways, doesn't matter: the important thing is to fight it.
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Post by Bishop Brennan on 06.09.14 5:32

@Varriott wrote:The Telegraph article is only unbiased in comparison to all other articles.  It still contains a number of misleading comments and outright inaccuracies, obvious to even casual observers like us.  Still, it mentions the dogs and doesn't quite say (although it does imply) that the saintly couple are obviously innocent.  So, a step forward maybe.  I still await the day when someone can write an objective article in the MSM.  Still waiting.... anyone?

My bolding of your quote - I think this may be the FIRST media article that has mentioned the dogs at all in the past 3 years. That alone makes it stand out. I'm not sure that this has any real significance other than to say that Raynor is a far better journalist than all of the others (see Tony's interesting personal perspective above). He does not for example try to discredit the dogs or lazily insult Amaral or the PJ.

But the article does highlight one thing - the dogs and the blood samples have provided the only evidence in the case so far... And that SY's new "stranger" theories still have nothing to back them up.

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Post by Miraflores on 06.09.14 7:48

I think this is a clever piece of writing.
It reminds me of what my father used to tell me about the Telegraph's reporting during the war years. When most papers would be screaming 'advance on .... xxx taken', the Telegraph would be reporting 'said to be an advance on'... etc, or in other words, don't believe the rest of the press, you'r being spun a line, things aren't going quite as well as they would like you to believe. All of which would be found to be true later.
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Post by PeterMac on 06.09.14 8:21

It also includes the photo of the bed, so people can form their own view of whether an adult and three wriggling children sat on it to read and sing and clap their hands and whether Madeleine ever "snuggled down" into it. "The McCanns told police they had put Madeleine to bed"
The dogs reference is good, as it gives the details of where they alerted and where they DIDN"T. "Both dogs were taken to several locations connected to the investigation, and gave alerts only in apartment 5A. "

And then, for clarification, he spells out a very credible and possibly the simplest and most reasonable scenario "The Portuguese police came up with the theory that Madeleine had been killed by her parents by accident, possibly by being given an overdose of a sedative to make her sleep, that they had hidden the body, faked her abduction and then used the hire car weeks later to move her body to a burial location."

So within the constraints under which the MSM operate, not bad. Apart from the obvious inaccuracies, of course

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Post by Guest on 06.09.14 10:24

@PeterMac wrote:

And then, for clarification, he spells out a very credible and possibly the simplest and most reasonable scenario "The Portuguese police came up with the theory that Madeleine had been killed by her parents by accident, possibly by being given an overdose of a sedative to make her sleep, that they had hidden the body, faked her abduction and then used the hire car weeks later to move her body to a burial location."

So within the constraints under which the MSM operate, not bad. 
Not sure on the law,but is this the first time this scenario as been aired in the MSM and as such is no longer libellous.It will have been run past the lawyers for certain wouldn't it.
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