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Tuesday.

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Tuesday.

Post by BlueBag on 29.08.14 18:37

Come on... it's blinding obvious this all kicked off on Tuesday night.. IMO.

Gerry said Kate slept in the kids room on TUESDAY night... "when Amelie was crying".... on Irish TV... Kate touched his hand when he said it... STFU...

It all started on Tuesday... I don't know when Madeleine died but the process started here.

My opinion.
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Re: Tuesday.

Post by inspirespirit on 29.08.14 19:28

It could have been Amelie crying that Mrs Fenn heard.   She heard a child crying 'Daddy' .  Well Maddie would have been more capable than that and would have shouted Daddy where are you, or Mummy where are you. Plus the bedroom door was open so she would have got up and went looking for them.  Anyone with a 3/4 year old child knows they do not stay in their own bed.  If they wake up they come looking.

So maybe Madeleine went looking and either fell over the balcony or down the steps (probably woozy from sedatives), whilst looking for Mummy and Daddy to tell them Amelie was crying.

I think the reason they are all covering, is that had they tested all the children, they would all have shown signs of mild sedation.  They ALL stood to lose their children and careers.
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Re: Tuesday.

Post by BlueBag on 29.08.14 20:27

@inspirespirit wrote:They ALL stood to lose their children and careers.

Occam's razor.. I think this is the simplest reasoning.

Yet.. I feel there's another twist... Government Media Monitoring units are not to be taken lightly (as Obi-Wan once said).
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Re: Tuesday.

Post by palm tree on 29.08.14 21:45

Km claims in her book, she slept in the children's room on the Wednesday night and also claims that's the night when gm walked off. Mrs Fenn stated Tuesday night she heard the crying for 90mins, calling daddy. I know I've read somewhere that gm had walked off on the Tuesday night, quiz night. So, now we have crying on Tuesday night, as gm and Mrs Fenn claimed, and crying on Wednesday night, as km (and Madeleine) says. But, according to gm on the Tuesday night, because A was crying Madeleine had come into their room about 2am and slept there.
IMO
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Re: Tuesday.

Post by wilbeth on 29.08.14 22:38

I too think something happened on the Tuesday evening - as there was a flurry of telephone calls from Kate's phone at about 11pm at night. It's unusual to make calls so late especially so many. What couldn't wait till the following morning? Why wouldn't you call before returning to the apartment so that the sound of you talking wouldn't wake the children. I think from here on the Creche records get messy, no clear evidence that Madeleine is seen after this date - hence the over selling of the "last photo's". No photo's of the children sailing, playing tennis with other kids, in fact no group photo's of all the children in the group that traveled together. Surely half the point of taking children away with other children is so that they can play together. Kate claims she is an avid photographer. I would claim that I am a rubbish at remembering to take pics on holidays - but even I would have taken 100 or more - between a group of 9 - there should be hundreds of pics - where are they?

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Re: Tuesday.

Post by Okeydokey on 30.08.14 1:47

@wilbeth wrote:I too think something happened on the Tuesday evening - as there was a flurry of telephone calls from Kate's phone at about 11pm at night. It's unusual to make calls so late especially so many. What couldn't wait till the following morning? Why wouldn't you call before returning to the apartment so that the sound of you talking wouldn't wake the children. I think from here on the Creche records get messy, no clear evidence that Madeleine is seen after this date - hence the over selling of the "last photo's". No photo's of the children sailing, playing tennis with other kids, in fact no group photo's of all the children in the group that traveled together. Surely half the point of taking children away with other children is so that they can play together. Kate claims she is an avid photographer. I would claim that I am a rubbish at remembering to take pics on holidays - but even I would have taken 100 or more - between a group of 9 - there should be hundreds of pics - where are they?

Yes. This is a very odd aspect of the case - the absence of relevant photos. It also relates to something I noticed in the Police interviews with the Tapas 9 - they were at pains to point out how they avoided visiting each other's apartments. How odd is that? You've all gone on holiday together, you have a load of young kids together, and yet apparently you suppress any natural curiosity to see each other's apartments. Very odd in my opinion.

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Re: Tuesday.

Post by suzyjohnson on 30.08.14 4:23

@inspirespirit wrote:It could have been Amelie crying that Mrs Fenn heard.   She heard a child crying 'Daddy' .  Well Maddie would have been more capable than that and would have shouted Daddy where are you, or Mummy where are you. Plus the bedroom door was open so she would have got up and went looking for them.  Anyone with a 3/4 year old child knows they do not stay in their own bed.  If they wake up they come looking.

So maybe Madeleine went looking and either fell over the balcony or down the steps (probably woozy from sedatives), whilst looking for Mummy and Daddy to tell them Amelie was crying.

I think the reason they are all covering, is that had they tested all the children, they would all have shown signs of mild sedation.  They ALL stood to lose their children and careers.

But, one thing I have a problem with, if a fatal accident occurred on any night other than the Thurs, then the parents (and any of the tapas group) would have had to have been mad to give any of the children sedatives on the night they knew they would have to call in the police.

So if any of the children were sedated on the Thurs it can only have been because the parents (and possibly some of the group as well) were caught out by something unexpected on that particular evening.

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Re: Tuesday.

Post by tigger on 30.08.14 6:48

Connecting the quick fire phonecalls and the crying which started just a minute after they ceased.

I would stick to their original statements that it was the twins who cried.

If the evening of the 1st was the day Maddie died it is clearer why they'd want to call attention to the crying themselves but moved it to Wednesday.  Better it  came from them and at he same time proved M was alive on Thursday morning to tell them about it.

Only later the crying  being Madeleine's and the tea stain  were added to the story.

Later still came the elaboration by Kate of  shaking her (there's an interview on YouTube and asking her why she woke up!!
Kate makes strong shaking motions and the fact that M woke up is what bothers her most imo.

Cue the stars for not waking up all night in the kitchen at Rothley. Cue the sedation question.
Cue the several  entries in the diary on the troyble getting the twins to bed.

Children may not wake up during the night and go to sleep on the dot of 7.30.

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Re: Tuesday.

Post by BlueBag on 30.08.14 8:00

@suzyjohnson wrote:But, one thing I have a problem with, if a fatal accident occurred on any night other than the Thurs, then the parents (and any of the tapas group) would have had to have been mad to give any of the children sedatives on the night they knew they would have to call in the police.

It would be no good the kids waking up on abduction night anytime between 8.30pm and 10.00pm.
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Re: Tuesday.

Post by BlueBag on 30.08.14 8:00

@tigger wrote:Connecting the quick fire phonecalls and the crying which started just a minute after they ceased.

Good connection.

It seems like something happened this night and the McCanns seem to want to move it to another night.
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Re: Tuesday.

Post by BlueBag on 30.08.14 8:23

So... what if Kate made her calls then left 5A and woke the kids as she exited?

And Madeleine got up and had an accident that involved the sofa and bleeding.

When discovered later, Kate slept in the kids room that later night to keep an eye on her.

Perhaps Madeleine although ill could still speak the next morning and said "why didn't you come when we were crying...?"

But her condition got worse, head injury, internal bleeding.

Doctors who completely messed up.. 

And some other things perhaps going on that week.

End of careers and lifestyle.

Just thinking, no facts. Just opinion.
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Re: Tuesday.

Post by palm tree on 30.08.14 9:32

But Mrs Fenn heard the crying from 10:30 until 11:45, which stopped abruptly when she heard the door.
6 calls in or near 5a on km phone starting 10:16 to 10:27, just before Mrs Fenn heard the crying start.
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Re: Tuesday.

Post by BlueBag on 30.08.14 10:23

@palm tree wrote:But Mrs Fenn heard the crying from 10:30 until 11:45, which stopped abruptly when she heard the door.

Yes.

What did whoever it was find when they came in?

I've been kicking this around for years and I think this is most likely where the sofa and blood fits. 

Blood and sofa are almost certainly involved in this.

Kate possibly left at 10.30 in a strop after phones calls about Gerry and fitness woman and woke them on exit, Madeleine was then trying to look out the window and fell.

Seeing Gerry on Irish TV also suggested for me that something happened Tuesday and they are covering it up.

All opinion.
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Re: Tuesday.

Post by palm tree on 30.08.14 10:36

Hmm, so, IMO, at the quiz gm invites the girl to the table, she says the time was 9:30 until 9:50, km goes off in a strop to 5a and makes the 6 calls between 10:16 & 10:27. Crying starts at about 10:30 until 11:45 and stops abruptly when Mrs Fenn hears the door. Was km in 5a, or did she go back for gm during this time? So confusing!
IMO
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Re: Tuesday.

Post by PeterMac on 30.08.14 10:37

In 2009 a young man fell over near here, probably missed the last rung of the ladder, though this is not clear., and whacked his head.
The ambulance crew had to argue at some length with him about heeding to go to hospital. He was adamant that he was OK
Later that day he was airlifted to Malaga and THREE DAYS LATER he died in the Intensive Care Unit of SAH

So an injury sustained at any time during the holiday COULD have been responsible.
Madeleine was said to have been seriously tired and needing to be carried back to the apartment.
The book says Thursday for this, but backtrack and substitute Wednesday or even Tuesday and once again some other things fall into place.

Then add a herd of doctors doing nothing about a head injury to a child, except giving it a dose of Calpol, and professional negligence begins to rear its ugly head.

Just a thought.

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Re: Tuesday.

Post by canada12 on 30.08.14 10:50

I'm sure we're not going to be able to find anything to substantiate this, but way way back in 2007 I recall reports on the Mirror forum from someone staying at the resort that on one evening previous to Madeleine's disappearance, Kate and Gerry had been seen and heard outside the apartment calling for Madeleine, looking for her, because she'd apparently run away from them and was hiding. I'm not sure which evening this was supposed to be. Nor am I sure whether this was just hearsay, or someone reporting something informally without evidence, or what.

But just suppose that Madeleine had accidentally fallen from the balcony or down the stairs earlier in the holiday, and Kate and Gerry had been out looking for her and had found her, and in that accident she had sustained a head injury which was not properly diagnosed or treated.

Then the rest of PM's theory above falls into place quite neatly.

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Re: Tuesday.

Post by Miraflores on 30.08.14 12:29

@PeterMac wrote:In 2009 a young man fell over near here, ...... and whacked his head.
The ambulance crew had to argue at some length with him about heeding to go to hospital. He was adamant that he was OK
Later that day he was airlifted to Malaga and THREE DAYS LATER he died in the Intensive Care Unit of SAH.

Much the same happened to Natasha Richardson as I recall. Fell over in a ski-ing accident, got up, thought she was OK, went back to her hotel, developed a severe headache... died a few days later.

It certainly explains why the McCanns and all the Drs in the party would want a cover up. Any one of them could have been considered negligent.

It doesn't really explain the presence of Clarrie, Gordon Brown's interference etc., so something else may have been going on there, compounded by a tragic accident.
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Re: Tuesday.

Post by BlueBag on 30.08.14 12:32

Miraflore wrote:
It doesn't really explain the presence of Clarrie, Gordon Brown's interference etc., so something else may have been going on there, compounded by a tragic accident.

Whilst I think this is what happened to Madeleine you are right, there is something else going on that made the British Government think media monitoring was a top priority from the start.
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Re: Tuesday.

Post by palm tree on 30.08.14 12:36

Is it true about a syringe being found in 5a cupboard?
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Re: Tuesday.

Post by inspirespirit on 30.08.14 12:43

The only possible thing that would make me keep quiet about a cover up, would be if my children would be taken away.  It therefore has to be something they are ALL involved in and something they all did.  That is what makes me think it was the sedation.  They obviously didn't worry about the legalities of leaving them on their own, especially if they used that as a smoke screen to cover what really happened.
What could they possibly all be involved with.  I honestly cannot imagine that all 8 of them were 'P's'.  What are the chances of that.
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Re: Tuesday.

Post by comperedna on 30.08.14 14:07

It has to be something all the mates were also involved in, and which was inappropriate or illegal and would have serious consequences for them all if it came to light.  I agree that sedation for convenience seems the most likely possibilty, but how evidence could ever be found about whether that was true or not I do not know.

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Re: Tuesday.

Post by LombardySkeptik on 30.08.14 14:26

Unless I am mistaken --Some of the posts on this thread are suggesting that it was not just the McCs sedating their children

Leaving any possible personal use of "GerryMacs© perfectly acceptable sleeping aids" to one side - I think it highly highly unlikely that any of the other families were involved in sedating their children

Whatever their reason for complicity, fear of being penalised for (their) child sedation was not one of them

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Re: Tuesday.

Post by inspirespirit on 30.08.14 14:50

@LombardySkeptik wrote:Unless I am mistaken --Some of the posts on this thread are suggesting that it was not just the McCs sedating their children

Leaving any possible personal use of "GerryMacs© perfectly acceptable sleeping aids" to one side - I think it highly highly unlikely that any of the other families were involved in sedating their children

Whatever their reason for complicity, fear of being penalised for (their) child sedation was not one of them
What makes you say that Lombardyskeptik?  Any particular reason for your theory?
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Re: Tuesday.

Post by inspirespirit on 30.08.14 14:58

Lombardyskeptic..... you sound soooo positive.  I have just read your other posts, and you seem to know what you are on about.  What is your opinion on what happened to Madeleine, if you don't mind me asking? thumbup
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Re: Tuesday.

Post by LombardySkeptik on 30.08.14 15:11

Its not my theory - its my disagreement of the theory being raised

Its not common practice for doctors to sedate their children (and with what? - lets throw out the Calpol nonsense for sure)

I accept that the Tapas7 were not normal/typical doctors based on the events but this is I think a sequence of unwise reactions and subsequent entanglement - this is not to excuse them in the conspiracy

However, whilst their own childcare was less than acceptable, I dont hold that sedation was part of it, especially given that their children were sickly that week

They are doctors and parents, and whilst they are downright disagreeable folk IMO, they are not medically and parentally so stupid - just alas criminally stupid

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