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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Welcome to 'The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann' forum 🌹

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When you register please do NOT use your email address for a username because everyone will be able to see it!

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Post by aiyoyo 15.08.14 9:43

@Ladyinred wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@Ladyinred wrote:
@Spartacus wrote:
@plebgate wrote:Good thread, I have been reading it with great interest and some very good points made.  

As per Tony's points this thread certainly does give pause  for thought,  and as hentie has  posted  - a child went missing but it took almost a fortnight for the Smithman sighting to be reported.   I still believe that Tony is right to question why this would be the case.
Is Tony still in Lincolnshire?

Spartacus, or should I call you, FrankS, Ethan O, Fossey, Andrew77R?  That is not a nice comment.

LIR: I have deleted the word in question. NFWTD.

NFWTD

I don't get it why you shield spartacus by deleting his/her  words.
This is a spartacus on his/her third post, posted her support for cristobell.
This is a spartaucs on his/her fifth post, posted this msg about TB "is TB still cottaging in Lincolnshire?"

Can you not see the obvious?

This is Spartacus posting in his at least fifth reincarnation on this forum, after being banned previously.

How would you know?

In that case :
Since Admin had removed automatic membership upon registering, now newbies have to be accepted by email, how did he slip through the net?
If he is reincarnation why did Mod not ban him?
If not reincarnation, why did Mod delete his offensive post? Why not warn him on the main board?
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Post by Guest 15.08.14 9:48

Maybe Spartacus could answer your questions - he's online.
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Post by Justformaddie 15.08.14 9:49

@Miraflores wrote:Give Mr Smith a break: it's not him who has lost a child because he was neglecting them - his grandchild was with him. It's not him who phoned up his relatives and lied about shutters being jemmied. It's not him who explains away the scent of cadaver by saying that his child's toy picked up the smell because he took it to work where he spent a significant amount of time certifying dead bodies. It's not him who refused to answer all bar one question at the police station.
Agreed Miraflores, he's the one who has told the truth and then kept out of it. If I was Martin, I'd correct anything aswell, to make sure any docs that were made was the truth. Anyways, Martin reported the sighting two days after it happened, Murat was made suspect on the 15th May (I think) and Martin didn't jump in claiming it wasn't Murat until 11days later, when he was brought back on the 26th May. The most damning thing for me about Martin is the plane footage, it jogged his memory and gm had no idea.
IMO

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Post by whatsupdoc 15.08.14 9:51

Pat Brown is bowing out...

http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/my-final-post-on-madeleine-mccann-case.html

I think many of us will be here for as long as it takes.
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Post by aiyoyo 15.08.14 9:54

@Ladyinred wrote:I suspect Spartacus has posted anonymously on Cristobell's blog criticising TB and this forum.

Cristobell herself has used her own blog to post criticism of TB (and RH) outside of this forum, so no surprise that will elicit some response isn't it?

I only know because I went to her blog for the first time after she refers members to her blog re RH's reply.
It would have been better had Cristobell posted up her article so that people know the context of what RH was replying to.
I went there since I was curious to know what she posted about RH that compelled RH to respond.
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Post by Guest 15.08.14 10:02

@Ladyinred wrote:Maybe Spartacus could answer your questions - he's online.

I can see a round of "I'm NOT Spartacus" breaking out....
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Post by Guest 15.08.14 10:03

@sharonl wrote:Has it been confirmed that this e-mail actually came from Martin Smith?  Could it be a hoax, perhaps by someone trying to prove a point?

Presumably emailed from martin@60to80percentsure.ie
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Post by aiyoyo 15.08.14 10:08

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I don't see what the problem is with Spartacus supporting Cristobell.

I agree that his use of that word was highly unacceptable and I'm sure that anything else along those lines will result him being banned.

You are right, nothing wrong in supporting cristobell.
But when spartacus limited posts is about deliberately pitting one against the other, can't you see the obvious?
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Post by Liz Eagles 15.08.14 10:09

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
@sharonl wrote:Has it been confirmed that this e-mail actually came from Martin Smith?  Could it be a hoax, perhaps by someone trying to prove a point?

Presumably emailed from martin@60to80percentsure.ie
That's really made me laugh.
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Post by Guest 15.08.14 10:16

Spartacus (Andrew77R, Ethan O, fossey, FrankS) is supporting Cristobell's opinions of Smithman because she is vociferously opposed to TB's views on this issue, as is her right, and Spartacus et al is vehemently anti-TB (and doesn't like Plebgate either).

Anyway, I shall ignore attention seekers who disrupt threads and send offensive posts and trust that Admin will sort things.

ETA: Spartacus has now logged-off.
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Post by Doug D 15.08.14 10:17

Sharonl (I’ve always read it as Sharoni – must be a man thing!) maybe, has hit the nail on the head suggesting that it may not be MS who has contacted Hall at all.
 
It is certainly not beyond the realms of Pinkies monitoring team to open an e-mail account in MS’s name or even be the work of a totally spurious ‘outsider’. I wonder whether Hall has actually authenticated the posting or just taken it at face value?
 
It seems very strange that MS has not gone public in all this time when so much doubt has been cast on his and his families sightings, yet suddenly he drops in an e-mail saying nothing other than to deny knowing Murat, other than by sight.
 
If I ‘had come across Mr.Murat twice in the previous 12 months, had never been introduced to him and merely knew him by sight’, I would not be in a position to categorically state that he was not the man I saw carrying a child that night in a dark and shadowy PdL street, without even a clear sight of his face, but having said that, I have little doubt that he is correct.
 
Personally, I don’t doubt that the family saw someone on the way home that evening, who wasn’t RM, carrying someone who wasn’t MM, but the alleged delay in reporting (if indeed there actually was one, was it reported on 5Th?) any sighting does not make any rational sense, (unless they knew  or at least were pretty sure, it was not the ‘abductor’), in light of the furore around the village the following morning.
 
TM and OG are clearly keen to keep ‘Smithman’ out there, for whatever reason, if only to support the only remaining vestiges of the ‘abduction’ theory.
 
If MS feels that enough is enough and the time has come to clarify matters, a full statement explaining the sighting, whether they reported on 5th or 15th, the revelation moment when GM got off the plane, the visit from BK, whether the two e-fits are actually anything to do with him or someone elses work and when they were constructed and with whom, could quite easily be released to the Press, some of whom would no doubt pay handsomely for such a story.
 
If he did not wish to profit financially from such a statement, there are no doubt many charities ready and willing to accept any payment for such a story.
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Post by Cristobell 15.08.14 10:54

@aiyoyo wrote:
@Ladyinred wrote:I suspect Spartacus has posted anonymously on Cristobell's blog criticising TB and this forum.

Cristobell herself has used her own blog to post criticism of TB (and RH) outside of this forum, so no surprise that will elicit some response isn't it?

I only know because I went to her blog for the first time after she refers members to her blog re RH's reply.
It would have been better had Cristobell posted up her article so that people know the context of what RH was replying to.
I went there since I was curious to know what she posted about RH that compelled RH to respond.
It isn't a case of supporting me or supporting Tony, this case isn't about either of us!

People are individuals, they will make their own minds up as to what they believe, and given the transient nature of this case, views have to evolve and sometimes change.  Nothing is set in stone, and the truth is, we know so little about this case, that we cannot put our views across as fact, when most of it is based on supposition.  Anyone foolish enough to take a firm 100% stance on any aspect of this case, will eventually find themselves backed into a corner when new evidence appears, as it does with regularity

This isn't about 'your theory is better than my theory', we are all here as individuals to put our opinions across and hopefully pressure those in authority to ensure the missing child receives justice.  If you make it about personalities, then we go off topic.
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Post by tiny 15.08.14 10:58

@Cristobell wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@Ladyinred wrote:I suspect Spartacus has posted anonymously on Cristobell's blog criticising TB and this forum.

Cristobell herself has used her own blog to post criticism of TB (and RH) outside of this forum, so no surprise that will elicit some response isn't it?

I only know because I went to her blog for the first time after she refers members to her blog re RH's reply.
It would have been better had Cristobell posted up her article so that people know the context of what RH was replying to.
I went there since I was curious to know what she posted about RH that compelled RH to respond.
It isn't a case of supporting me or supporting Tony, this case isn't about either of us!

People are individuals, they will make their own minds up as to what they believe, and given the transient nature of this case, views have to evolve and sometimes change.  Nothing is set in stone, and the truth is, we know so little about this case, that we cannot put our views across as fact, when most of it is based on supposition.  Anyone foolish enough to take a firm 100% stance on any aspect of this case, will eventually find themselves backed into a corner when new evidence appears, as it does with regularity

This isn't about 'your theory is better than my theory', we are all here as individuals to put our opinions across and hopefully pressure those in authority to ensure the missing child receives justice.  If you make it about personalities, then we go off topic.

 thumbsup so true,i have been on the fence and off the fence so many times it untrue.
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Post by Cristobell 15.08.14 11:13

@Doug D wrote:Sharonl (I’ve always read it as Sharoni – must be a man thing!) maybe, has hit the nail on the head suggesting that it may not be MS who has contacted Hall at all.
 
It is certainly not beyond the realms of Pinkies monitoring team to open an e-mail account in MS’s name or even be the work of a totally spurious ‘outsider’. I wonder whether Hall has actually authenticated the posting or just taken it at face value?
 
It seems very strange that MS has not gone public in all this time when so much doubt has been cast on his and his families sightings, yet suddenly he drops in an e-mail saying nothing other than to deny knowing Murat, other than by sight.
 
If I ‘had come across Mr.Murat twice in the previous 12 months, had never been introduced to him and merely knew him by sight’, I would not be in a position to categorically state that he was not the man I saw carrying a child that night in a dark and shadowy PdL street, without even a clear sight of his face, but having said that, I have little doubt that he is correct.
 
Personally, I don’t doubt that the family saw someone on the way home that evening, who wasn’t RM, carrying someone who wasn’t MM, but the alleged delay in reporting (if indeed there actually was one, was it reported on 5Th?) any sighting does not make any rational sense, (unless they knew  or at least were pretty sure, it was not the ‘abductor’), in light of the furore around the village the following morning.
 
TM and OG are clearly keen to keep ‘Smithman’ out there, for whatever reason, if only to support the only remaining vestiges of the ‘abduction’ theory.
 
If MS feels that enough is enough and the time has come to clarify matters, a full statement explaining the sighting, whether they reported on 5th or 15th, the revelation moment when GM got off the plane, the visit from BK, whether the two e-fits are actually anything to do with him or someone elses work and when they were constructed and with whom, could quite easily be released to the Press, some of whom would no doubt pay handsomely for such a story.
 
If he did not wish to profit financially from such a statement, there are no doubt many charities ready and willing to accept any payment for such a story.
Eeeek!  Sorry Doug, but why should he?  He does not owe an explanation to us.  As if! 

He has kept his head down, he has done everything right by avoiding the media circus and ignoring (thus far) the slurs against him.  The Buried By the Mainstream videos could well go viral, it is as yet an unknown quantity.  He was right to correct Richard D. Hall, and Richard, to his credit, was right to print that correction on the front page of Video 4.  It was done swiftly and without recourse to the libel courts, both parties clearly reasonable people.

Martin Smith is treating this case with the seriousness it deserves, a major crime has been committed.  We should do the same and respect this family's right to privacy.
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Post by Spartacus 15.08.14 11:53

@Ladyinred wrote:Maybe Spartacus could answer your questions - he's online.
Iam here to expose the bullies,the liars and the fraudsters!

As far as the McCanns are concerned i will not rest untill they are held accountable for the death of MBM.

I AM SPARTACUS.
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Post by Guest 15.08.14 11:58

I think we all agree with those aims!

Just please watch your language.

No personal remarks about anyone.

We can't always agree with the way that people go about things but we need to concentrate on what we have in common.
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Post by Guest 15.08.14 11:59

@Spartacus wrote:
@Ladyinred wrote:Maybe Spartacus could answer your questions - he's online.
Iam here to expose the bullies,the liars and the fraudsters!

As far as the McCanns are concerned i will not rest untill they are held accountable for the death of MBM.

I AM SPARTACUS.

Yes, and you've previously had other names on this forum as mentioned up-thread  laughat
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Post by Guest 15.08.14 12:02

How do you know that LIR? That's information to which I as a moderator am not party to.
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Post by jeanmonroe 15.08.14 12:22

@whatsupdoc wrote:Pat Brown is bowing out...

http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/my-final-post-on-madeleine-mccann-case.html

I think many of us will be here for as long as it takes.

I have been recently attacked for suggesting:

"That the Gaspar statements are not reliable. I cannot get excited about these because we only hear from one woman who wasn't exactly sure what she saw and from her husband who does not agree with her assessment. Sadly, some of those who cry out that we ought to rely on facts in the McCann case are willing to allow one questionable statement about David Payne to become a focal point of what happened to Madeleine, that it is okay to slander David Payne......."
-----------------------------------------------------
1) "That the Gaspar statements are not reliable. I cannot get excited about these because we only hear from one woman who wasn't exactly sure what she saw"
---------------------
THAT's why JS, SH, RH and others were able to 'get away with' their horrendous 'crimes' because NO ONE would 'take a chance' and BELIEVE what the 'victim'.had to SAY and they were TOLD their 'statements' were NOT RELIABLE! (and in some cases, told that, BY the Police who studiously 'swerved' investigating the so called 'zlebrities'!)

WHERE ARE TWO OF THOSE 'nachanul treasures' NOW?

Don't bother answering.......................I KNOW!  laughat 
-----------------------------------
2)  "...in the McCann case are willing to allow one questionable statement about David Payne to become a focal point of what happened to Madeleine, that it is okay to slander David Payne..."
------------------------------------------------

SO, I wonder WHY David Payne has NOT 'sued' anyone, afaik, for 'SLANDER' then, during the last 7 YEARS?

(He'd make a 'fortune' in damages, wouldn't he?)

Perhaps the reason WHY DP has not 'sued' anyone for 'slander' is that he could well end up in a court room, under oath, and be 'cross examined' on OTHER 'slanderous' accusations about THAT holiday!

All, imo, obviously.
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Post by Doug D 15.08.14 12:27

Cristobell:
 
‘Eeeek!  Sorry Doug, but why should he?’
 
I actually said:
 
‘If MS feels that enough is enough and the time has come to clarify matters…………..could
 
In the DVD the two points that Hall brings out about the Smith sighting are the ‘delay’ & the ‘friend’.
 
Assuming that the e-mail is from MS, he corrects the friend part, but makes no mention of the delay, which suggests that reports that he reported the sighting to the PJ on 5th are inaccurate, as why go to the trouble of correcting one point but not the other?
 
Which leads us back to the old question of ‘Why?’
 
However much you wish to respect the Smith’s privacy, the statements and press reports are out there in the public domain, which in true McCann style, lead to more questions than answers.
 
Being pernickety, I notice that Hall has not actually apologized for making an error, he has merely published the e-mail.
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Post by Cristobell 15.08.14 12:46

@Doug D wrote:Cristobell:
 
‘Eeeek!  Sorry Doug, but why should he?’
 
I actually said:
 
‘If MS feels that enough is enough and the time has come to clarify matters…………..could
 
In the DVD the two points that Hall brings out about the Smith sighting are the ‘delay’ & the ‘friend’.
 
Assuming that the e-mail is from MS, he corrects the friend part, but makes no mention of the delay, which suggests that reports that he reported the sighting to the PJ on 5th are inaccurate, as why go to the trouble of correcting one point but not the other?

It suggests nothing of the sort!  Again it is not up to Mr. Smith to explain anything to anyone outside of the investigation.  Much as we would love Martin Smith to come on here, or elsewhere, and dish the dirt with us, he is a witness in a major criminal investigation. You are already deconstructing the very few sentences he put out there and making 2 + 2 = 5, what would the more enthusiastic members of the viewing public do if he issued a detailed statement, putting aside the fact that it might jeopardise any future trial.   
 
Which leads us back to the old question of ‘Why?’
 
See above.

However much you wish to respect the Smith’s privacy, the statements and press reports are out there in the public domain, which in true McCann style, lead to more questions than answers.

You have the answers but you don't accept them.  He doesn't know Robert Murat.
 
Being pernickety, I notice that Hall has not actually apologized for making an error, he has merely published the e-mail.


He put the correction up on the front page of Video 4, which seems satisfactory to both parties.  The important thing now is to get them out there!
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Post by Liz Eagles 15.08.14 12:53

Clipped from Cristobell's post

Much as we would love Martin Smith to come on here, or elsewhere, and dish the dirt with us

Just take a look at that sentence Cristobell.

'Dish the dirt with us'.

My goodness woman you astound me.
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Post by jeanmonroe 15.08.14 13:00

I still cant 'fathom' WHY the Smiths, if they did 'report' their 'sighting' to the Police, TWO days after the 'event', and there WILL be a 'copper who received this 'information' SOMEWHERE in Portugal, who will be able to confirm that, WHY they did not, it seems, GIVE such a DETAILED description, of the 'person' to the police, they reported to, on that day, as they DID give full frontal face e-fits, of the man, who by their own admissions, whose FACE they did NOT see, almost a YEAR later, to McCanns PI's. (2008)

Surely IF they had given such a DETAILED 'description' of the child carrying man, as the Smiths say they did, just two days after the 'event', HIS e-fit/s would have been in the public domain almost immediately, and COULD have led to his possible apprehension, couldn't it?

The e-fits the TWO Smith family 'members' gave, to McCann Pi's eventually, would have been the SAME , two days, or two months, or two years, or six years, later wouldn't they?

WHERE WERE THOSE TWO SMITH E-FITS, of SAME 'man', FOR 6 YEARS 6 MONTHS BEFORE CW, OCT 2013?

Madeleine McCann's 'burglator' COULD have been CAUGHT, within DAYS, couldn't she, IF the Smith family TWO e-fits had been circulated, 5th May, when they told police about their sighting,  couldn't he? (or SHE or THEY winkwink )

Just like, as with, Chinese 'arithmatic'.......................... I JUST DON'T 'GET IT'!
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Post by Cristobell 15.08.14 13:04

aquila wrote:Clipped from Cristobell's post

Much as we would love Martin Smith to come on here, or elsewhere, and dish the dirt with us

Just take a look at that sentence Cristobell.

'Dish the dirt with us'.

My goodness woman you astound me.
I'm delighted I still have the ability to astound  smilie
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Post by Woofer 15.08.14 13:12

@jeanmonroe wrote:I still cant 'fathom' WHY the Smiths, if they did 'report' their 'sighting' to the Police, TWO days after the 'event', and there WILL be a 'copper who received this 'information' SOMEWHERE in Portugal, who will be able to confirm that, WHY they did not, it seems, GIVE such a DETAILED description, of the 'person' to the police, they reported to, on that day, as they DID give full frontal face e-fits, of the man, who by their own admissions, whose FACE they did NOT see, almost a YEAR later, to McCanns PI's. (2008)

Surely IF they had given such a DETAILED 'description' of the child carrying man, as the Smiths say they did, just two days after the 'event', HIS e-fit/s would have been in the public domain almost immediately, and COULD have led to his possible apprehension, couldn't it?

The e-fits the TWO Smith family 'members' gave, to McCann Pi's eventually, would have been the SAME , two days, or two months, or two years, or six years, later wouldn't they?

WHERE WERE THOSE SMITH E-FITS FOR 6 YEARS 6 MONTHS BEFORE CW, OCT 2013?

Just like, as with, Chinese 'arithmatic'.......................... I JUST DON'T 'GET IT'!
According to this, they did :-
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-key-witness-accuses-2433328

"
A key witness in the Madeleine McCann case claimed yesterday that Portuguese police failed to take his evidence seriously.
Retired businessman Martin Smith, 64, provided details for an e-fit of the prime suspect after spotting the mystery man carrying a child at 10pm close to where the three-year-old vanished more than six years ago.
But he said his information was virtually ignored by local officers because they were too busy chasing up another sighting of a man near Kate and Gerry McCann’s holiday apartment in Praia da Luz 45 minutes earlier."
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