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Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by Baldrick on 16.07.14 9:21

@Woofer wrote:If all your suggestions are correct Tony, it can only mean that something evil and someone extremely high profile is up to their necks in this and has to be protected.

Agree on this. But I think the people with involvement were only protected because of what they know about other people higher up the chain, if this makes sense.

Ex MP Possibly or someone who could really damage the government , media or both.

I do hold out some hope though with the investigation into the alleged abuse involving certain MPs

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by joyce1938 on 16.07.14 10:16

This maybe wrong thread but I would like to sat today I heard some more news of cthe met ,did not do well for the Lawrence case . A police that has just retired is now soeaking about they did not to seem to go into this case ,and took years to pu 1 or 2 in prison and were supposed to be getting onto another 1 ir 2 that were guilty ,now decided not to get on with it ,just allow it to remain as it is ,how many years is this now . I hope someone hear might have heard it last night ,talking about the met and how this policeman realized they did not want to  joyce1938 I have not explained it too well .But if its true ,then what we felt about mbm will easily slip into the past ,no more case to answer.
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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by joel27 on 16.07.14 16:19

Joyce the Lawrence case more particularly the way the police handled is about the racism  and corruption that prevailed in the police at the time. Even more the cover up of this at all levels within the police.

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by margaret on 16.07.14 17:43

@joel27 wrote:Joyce the Lawrence case more particularly the way the police handled is about the racism  and corruption that prevailed in the police at the time. Even more the cover up of this at all levels within the police.

But what is good about it is that the officer involved in the investigation is speaking out against it.  Add all the officers in OP Grange to the list of people involved in the requirement for a whitewash in maddies case and l believe it's impossible.  There isn't enough money to pay them all and why would they all keep quiet? For the Queen or governments sake?
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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by Synes on 16.07.14 17:50

Maybe those officers involved were hand picked for the job...all areas have a 'watch list' of persons of interest in the force, no payment necessary just some leverage

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by margaret on 16.07.14 18:12

@Synes wrote:Maybe those officers involved were hand picked for the job...all areas have a 'watch list' of persons of interest in the force, no payment necessary just some leverage

Leverage can disappear. I think it's nigh on impossible myself to get all involved in this case to keep quiet about a whitewash.

On retirement from interesting jobs some people write a memoir. I would imagine if anyone involved in the SY investigation wrote a book it would be of great interest, it would be dynamite if there was some scandal to add to it.

The Internet is too powerful a tool now, if we didn't have it l doubt some people in Westminster would be worrying or stepping down from their jobs....
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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by comperedna on 16.07.14 18:22

It seems to me now that both police forces are merely going through the motions. Indeed, the PJ may be doing nothing at all. It is likely that there is not enough evidence to convict anybody, and it is... to coin a phrase... 'utterly ludicrous' that anyone close to Madeleine and there on the night in question is not being considered... only peripheral oddballs. This is a wicked waste of money. It brings the Met into serious disrepute. They cannot stand many more scandals. Surely it is best for them to pull out now with a: 'we did our best, but there is not enough evidence etc'. WHY did they re-open the case merely to fart about like this? If they thought they could find a patsy (dead) and put the case to bed once and for all... and make it stick... they were stupidly misguided.

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 16.07.14 19:09

@comperedna wrote:It seems to me now that both police forces are merely going through the motions. Indeed, the PJ may be doing nothing at all. It is likely that there is not enough evidence to convict anybody, and it is... to coin a phrase... 'utterly ludicrous' that anyone close to Madeleine and there on the night in question is not being considered... only peripheral oddballs. This is a wicked waste of money. It brings the Met into serious disrepute. They cannot stand many more scandals. Surely it is best for them to pull out now with a: 'we did our best, but there is not enough evidence etc'. WHY did they re-open the case merely to fart about like this? If they thought they could find a patsy (dead) and put the case to bed once and for all... and make it stick... they were stupidly misguided.

I don't believe it comes down to evidence, but more whether the CPS/Portugal equivalent can secure a conviction. Take the conviction of David Gilroy in the Suzanne Pilley murder (albeit a Scottish case).

A completely circumstantial case with no physical evidence whatsoever and I would argue less "evidence" than in the McCann case. The difference is the connections/lawyers/being doctors etc..  IMO.

As for your last sentence, either SY/Met will confirm many peoples belief they're corrupt to the core, or we're all wrong and someone else (none of the Tapas 9) did it.....?
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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by jeanmonroe on 17.07.14 15:51

Should forum go 'easy' on DCI Redwood?
------------------------------------------------------------------

DCI (same rank as DCI Redwood at OG) Clive Driscoll, ('removed' from Lambeth children's homes abuse investigation)

But got SL 'convictions'

DCI Driscoll: "there is no doubt that there were mistakes made in this investigation (SL) and there is much debate about whether those mistakes were corruption mistakes or incompetent mistakes"

Interviewer: "In your view were most of the 'mistakes' down to incompetence or is there something more SINISTER?"

DCI Driscoll: "the difference between incompetence and corruption is a bit like a bad tackle at football, the person who knows is the person who made the tackle, you know, i could be incompetent all day long if you want."

Interviewer "What's your sense?"

DCI Driscoll: "My sense was i couldn't work certain things out, there were certain incidents, there were certain inquiries, which didn't appear to be progressed, there were certain, um, PARTS of 'the investigation' THAT REALLY DIDN'T MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME AT ALL, but i never investigated whether that was corruption or is it incompetent"

Interviewer: "But what does corruption look like?"

DCI Driscoll: "Question i've asked myself many times, what is corruption, i mean is corruption going behind a pub somewhere and getting an envelope full of 50 quid notes and thats corruption, or is corruption that you don't go down a certain path, you don't follow a certain inquiry, and therefore YOU MAKE SOMEONE VERY HAPPY THAT YOU HAVEN'T FOLLOWED THAT INQUIRY and therefore your next promotion is easier for you?  Your CV looks a bit more glamourous by the time you finish your career and at the end of your pension you could have earnt considerably more than what you'd ever stuff in an envelope so what is corruption? And, my concern is the result for the grieving family or the victim or for justice is exactly the same, it's that justice has been thwarted and that can't happen at any costs, because the reality is that is the rule of law. It's part of our freedom"

So should we cut DCI Redwood some 'slack'?

Hmmm, let me think  thinking

Er............NAHHHH!

He's a highly paid, experienced, elite detective, who should ONLY be focussing on finding out what 'happened' to a 'missing' defenceless child, Madeleine Beth McCann, and be getting JUSTICE for, free of fear or favour, no matter who's 'door' it leads to..

Because her OWN parents are doing absolutely 'diddly squat' to 'find' her!

I wonder what the entire McCann 'family' and the Healy 'family' actually DID today to 'find' their 'missing', terribly missed, family member, Madeleine?

(RHETORICAL!)

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by Bishop Brennan on 17.07.14 16:07

AR's most recent round-table, different strand, all lines review of the McCann case.




 big grin
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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by jeanmonroe on 17.07.14 16:22

@Bishop Brennan wrote:AR's most recent round-table, different strand, all lines review of the McCann case.




Elephant, in the room,  'sponsored' and 'appearing', with the kind permission of...... STOP THE McCANN CIRCUS!

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by Guest on 17.07.14 16:29

I wonder, what can be gained from all these assumptions, that the police investigation, or both investigations, are corrupted? What good does that do at this point? 
If there's a genuine investigation ongoing, and why wouldn't that be the case, or not, in both instances the public is not going to be informed with the honest details of what has been found out by now.
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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by Sonmi-451 on 17.07.14 17:12

@jeanmonroe wrote:
@Bishop Brennan wrote:AR's most recent round-table, different strand, all lines review of the McCann case.




Elephant, in the room,  'sponsored' and 'appearing', with the kind permission of...... STOP THE McCANN CIRCUS!

Oh dear... no doubt yet another TM photo that's going to be over analysed and that will generate all sorts of photoshopping claims!! For the umpteenth time: I work on a daily basis tinkering with digital photos and can see no evidence whatsoever of malicious tinkering...
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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by MrsC on 17.07.14 17:26

@Sonmi-451 wrote:
@jeanmonroe wrote:
@Bishop Brennan wrote:AR's most recent round-table, different strand, all lines review of the McCann case.




Elephant, in the room,  'sponsored' and 'appearing', with the kind permission of...... STOP THE McCANN CIRCUS!

Oh dear... no doubt yet another TM photo that's going to be over analysed and that will generate all sorts  of photoshopping claims!! For the umpteenth time: I work on a daily basis tinkering with digital photos  and can see no evidence whatsoever of malicious tinkering...

Oh, come on, please! Surely you can see they have cut and paste a flying saucer onto the ceiling?
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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by jeanmonroe on 17.07.14 17:29

MarcoG wrote:I wonder, what can be gained from all these assumptions, that the police investigation, or both investigations, are corrupted? What good does that do at this point? 
If there's a genuine investigation ongoing, and why wouldn't that be the case, or not, in both instances the public is not going to be informed with the honest details of what has been found out by now.

My earlier post relates what happened to a real live DCI employed by the Metropolitan Police.

The Met have had numerous 'cover ups' exposed just in the last year!

If an 'inquiry/investigation' is TOLD, by 'senior ogfficers' not to go 'down that path' THAT IS CORRUPTION!

Operation Grange?

THREE YEARS, 38 'dedicated' Cops and staff, almost £9 MILLION of UK taxpayers money, and not a 'sniff' of ANYTHING?

Supposing DCI Redwood HAS said to BHH, "we think the McCanns might actually be involved, as there is no clear evidence to eliminate them, in Madeleine's 'disappearance''

What do you think Big Boss BHH's 'reply' to that MIGHT be?

'er, don't go down THAT path, DCI Redwood'?

It happened to DCI Driscoll's, 'investigations' into possible abuse in Lambeth childrens homes, didn't it?

eta: I'd like to think that BHH's 'reply', to DCI Redwood's possible 'theory', about possible 'involvement' by T9, would be "Get them all in, all the T9 and JW, and re-interview them, under caution, and get them to explain the contradictions and discrepancies in their sworn statements'

"And get DP to fully explain the 'few things he KNOWS are pertinet and relevent to establish the material truth, about Madeleine's 'disappearance' which he didn't tell to the Leicester Police"

i'd LIKE to think BHH would do that, but then i remember him backing his officers '100%'  (why would they lie?) in the Plebgate affair, and one of his 30 year career, 100% 'backed' officers is now serving a 12 month prison sentence for lying!

And 3 more of his 100% 'backed' officers have been sacked, by the organisation HE 'leads'!

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by comperedna on 17.07.14 18:06

"I don't believe it comes down to evidence, but more whether the CPS/Portugal equivalent can secure a conviction. Take the conviction of David Gilroy in the Suzanne Pilley murder (albeit a Scottish case).

A completely circumstantial case with no physical evidence whatsoever and I would argue less "evidence" than in the McCann case. The difference is the connections/lawyers/being doctors etc..  IMO."

Hi The Truthwillout

That is a plausible reason for Alison Saunders and her CPS colleague going out to PDL.  I guess I know practically nothing about the Portuguese equivalent of the CPS.  It is awful to think that being well-heeled and 'doctors' and having goodness knows who supporting them in the background would make the difference. It always strikes me that circumstantial evidence is often the most telling, and supposedly direct evidence (eg evidence of identification) rather less so. I do not necessarily believe Redwood is not 'on the level'. I veer from one pole to the other. Right now I am gloomy about the case.

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by SixMillionQuid on 17.07.14 18:08

MarcoG wrote:I wonder, what can be gained from all these assumptions, that the police investigation, or both investigations, are corrupted? What good does that do at this point? 
If there's a genuine investigation ongoing, and why wouldn't that be the case, or not, in both instances the public is not going to be informed with the honest details of what has been found out by now.

Strange how the media know what's going on when Grange's remit is not to give running commentaries.

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 17.07.14 19:05

@comperedna wrote:Hi The Truthwillout

That is a plausible reason for Alison Saunders and her CPS colleague going out to PDL.  I guess I know practically nothing about the Portuguese equivalent of the CPS.  It is awful to think that being well-heeled and 'doctors' and having goodness knows who supporting them in the background would make the difference. It always strikes me that circumstantial evidence is often the most telling, and supposedly direct evidence (eg evidence of identification) rather less so. I do not necessarily believe Redwood is not 'on the level'. I veer from one pole to the other. Right now I am gloomy about the case.

I'm gloomy too at the minute. But I refuse give up all hope. Even if the worst happens the questioning about this case will continue until the truth does come out. It always comes out......
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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by Guest on 17.07.14 19:12

@jeanmonroe Interviewing the t9 and JW under caution, while letting DP fully explain everything doesn't seem constructive to me if there's not enough evidence yet. 
Or do you think the CPS will get a conviction because of the suspects brabbling "uhm I don't know, errr we played tennis and did checks, we had a great holiday".
 
@sixmillionquid That's my problem with it. If it's possible a whitewashing policecorps doesn't tell the truth to media, and if it's possible a genuinely working policecorps doesn't tell the truth to media, while we know that main stream media in this case have been manipulating the public, how do we know that what media report about the case is genuine?
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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by ultimaThule on 17.07.14 19:45

@jeanmonroe wrote:Should forum go 'easy' on DCI Redwood?
------------------------------------------------------------------

DCI (same rank as DCI Redwood at OG) Clive Driscoll, ('removed' from Lambeth children's homes abuse investigation)

But got SL 'convictions'

DCI Driscoll: "there is no doubt that there were mistakes made in this investigation (SL) and there is much debate about whether those mistakes were corruption mistakes or incompetent mistakes"

Interviewer: "In your view were most of the 'mistakes' down to incompetence or is there something more SINISTER?"

DCI Driscoll: "the difference between incompetence and corruption is a bit like a bad tackle at football, the person who knows is the person who made the tackle, you know, i could be incompetent all day long if you want."

Interviewer "What's your sense?"

DCI Driscoll: "My sense was i couldn't work certain things out, there were certain incidents, there were certain inquiries, which didn't appear to be progressed, there were certain, um, PARTS of 'the investigation' THAT REALLY DIDN'T MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME AT ALL, but i never investigated whether that was corruption or is it incompetent"

Interviewer: "But what does corruption look like?"

DCI Driscoll: "Question i've asked myself many times, what is corruption, i mean is corruption going behind a pub somewhere and getting an envelope full of 50 quid notes and thats corruption, or is corruption that you don't go down a certain path, you don't follow a certain inquiry, and therefore YOU MAKE SOMEONE VERY HAPPY THAT YOU HAVEN'T FOLLOWED THAT INQUIRY and therefore your next promotion is easier for you?  Your CV looks a bit more glamourous by the time you finish your career and at the end of your pension you could have earnt considerably more than what you'd ever stuff in an envelope so what is corruption? And, my concern is the result for the grieving family or the victim or for justice is exactly the same, it's that justice has been thwarted and that can't happen at any costs, because the reality is that is the rule of law. It's part of our freedom"

So should we cut DCI Redwood some 'slack'?

Hmmm, let me think  thinking

Er............NAHHHH!

He's a highly paid, experienced, elite detective, who should ONLY be focussing on finding out what 'happened' to a 'missing' defenceless child, Madeleine Beth McCann, and be getting JUSTICE for, free of fear or favour, no matter who's 'door' it leads to..

Because her OWN parents are doing absolutely 'diddly squat' to 'find' her!

I wonder what the entire McCann 'family' and the Healy 'family' actually DID today to 'find' their 'missing', terribly missed, family member, Madeleine?

(RHETORICAL!)

I've drawn this forum's attention to Clive Driscoll on numerous occasions and it should be noted that after being removed from an investigation into allegations of sexual abuse at Lambeth children's homes, he was put on a disciplinary for mentioning the names of certain policitians which came to light during his enquiries.  

Being unable to find any of the links I've previously supplied, I'm resorting to posting one to a blogspot which provides a brief account of ex-DCI Driscoll's above investigation: http://aangirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/child-abuse-ring-in-lambeth.html

It should also be noted that, in addition to his commendable work on the Stephen Lawrence case, Clive Driscoll was instrumental in bringing the killers of Surjit Athwal to justice at the Old Bailey and this case is of relevance here as the victim was murdered in India and her body is yet to be recovered.

For me, as for many others, Clive Driscoll is a shining example of a police officer who is not willing to compromise his integrity to please his political paymasters and, unlike those of his colleagues who are intent on advancing their careers no matter who or what is sacrificed in the process or who are willing to turn a blind eye for financial reward, he can truly be said to be one of NSY's finest.

With regard to DCI Redwood, I see no reason why he should be cut any slack on Op Grange but, nevertheless, I prefer to reserve judgement as to his intent until the investigation has concluded.
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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by Bishop Brennan on 17.07.14 21:16

Certainly IF you wanted to make sure that your lead Grange investigator did exactly what he was told, then it would make sense to pick one who was very close to retirement.  All his benefits lined up and ready to go; party venue booked.  Much less likely to rock the boat and risk the wrath of the higher echelons than some aggressive up-and-comer who still had "truth and justice" as his main motivation.  

Now can anyone think of a DCI who would fit the bill? (no pun intended).

 party
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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 17.07.14 22:08

@Bishop Brennan wrote:Certainly IF you wanted to make sure that your lead Grange investigator did exactly what he was told, then it would make sense to pick one who was very close to retirement.  All his benefits lined up and ready to go; party venue booked.  Much less likely to rock the boat and risk the wrath of the higher echelons than some aggressive up-and-comer who still had "truth and justice" as his main motivation.  

Now can anyone think of a DCI who would fit the bill? (no pun intended).

 party

With all the various stories of cover ups by politicians and senior police officers coming to the surface in the last few days/weeks would AR and any others be so brazen/brave to carry out in public a massive cover up/whitewash?

The Met is going to be put under the microscope like never before and I genuinely can't see them daring to do it now. I accept when the review/investigation started a whitewash may have been the plan, but surely that has had to change with recent developments?

I would really like to know the reasons why Martin Grime and Mark Harrison left the UK police and moved to the US and Australia.
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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by petunia on 17.07.14 22:11

@Bishop Brennan wrote:Certainly IF you wanted to make sure that your lead Grange investigator did exactly what he was told, then it would make sense to pick one who was very close to retirement.  All his benefits lined up and ready to go; party venue booked.  Much less likely to rock the boat and risk the wrath of the higher echelons than some aggressive up-and-comer who still had "truth and justice" as his main motivation.  

Now can anyone think of a DCI who would fit the bill? (no pun intended).

 party
Of course A COPPER who is not willing to forego his benefits and riches for a little girl who had no voice.If this is a Whitewash i hope he enjoy's every penny of it' and i hope when he is laid on his sunbed in his villa abroad,he thank's Madeleine and i hope Madeleine in spirit is sat beside him.telling him enjoy the sun Andy' me and Goncalo the man who cares more for me than money are going for a walk in the sunshine.

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by Tony Bennett on 18.07.14 6:46

@TheTruthWillOut wrote:
The Met is going to be put under the microscope like never before...
Tell me how, if at all, Operation Grange has been 'put under the microscope' so far - apart fom here on CMOMM.

Tell me how the mainstream media have challenged Operation Grange.

Tell me where the mainstream media have challeged the costs of Grange.

Tell me where the mainstream media have challenged the provenance of those two Henri Exton-produced e-fits.

Did anyone apart from on here put Redwood's 'revelation moment' - of suddenly producing 'Crecheman' out of the hat - under the microscope?

Tell me where and when the London Assembly members of the Metropolitan Police Authority have 'put Grange under the microscope'.

How many times has Grange been questioned in the Houses of Parliament?

Will any final report into Grange be made public? - or kept secret?

If you don't know the answer to that last question, you shouldn't, with respect, be suggesting that Grange will ever be 'put under the microscope'.

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Re: Redwood's Role - And the 'Theory of the Developing Narrative'

Post by Baldrick on 18.07.14 8:00

I am hoping the Grange info will be released in the PJ files.

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