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Prime Minister's staunch support for Israel

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Prime Minister's staunch support for Israel

Post by Woofer on 10.07.14 13:27

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10693327/David-Cameron-pledges-unbreakable-support-for-Israel.html

This has worried me.  He is supposed to be speaking for his voters and just because he has Jewish ancestry, we are all supposed to support Israel - what happens if we don`t agree?
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Re: Prime Minister's staunch support for Israel

Post by Tony Bennett on 10.07.14 14:10

@Woofer wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10693327/David-Cameron-pledges-unbreakable-support-for-Israel.html

This has worried me.  He is supposed to be speaking for his voters and just because he has Jewish ancestry, we are all supposed to support Israel - what happens if we don't agree?
The quote which you've linked to says this:

QUOTE
  
David Cameron has pledged his "unbreakable" support for Israel and condemned Iran for its "despicable" attempts to smuggle missiles to terrorists.

UNQUOTE

If he is just pledging his support, then your answer to your question: 'What happens if we don't agree?' is - don't vote for him next year.

Mind you, if you vote for Ed Miliband, you'll be voting for someone who has a heck of a lot more Jewish ancestry than Cameron has! 

There is a great deal of public support for the 'Palestinians' these days, but amongst all the points in their favour, the following 10 points are often lost:

1. Jews have always - since 'The Exodus' anyway - lived in what is now called 'Palestine', even after the diaspora after AD 70

2. The intense hatred of the Jews in many Euroepan countries and the attempted genocide of them by Hitler led to the United Nations in 1947 agreeing with almost universal support to give them a tiny part of 'Palestine' - that part mainly occupied by Jews - in 1947  

3. The Arabs, however, described the tiny new Israelii nation as 'The Catastrophe'

4. With far greater numbers than the Jews, the Arab states attacked them in 1948 - and lost badly  

5. The Arab states attacked again in 1967 - and again lost badly  

5. The rulers of the Palestinian areas of Israel-Palestine bring up their children with the most intense, visceral hatred of another race (the Jews) anywhere on this earth; they are the most racist people on the planet 

6. Israel is a democracy which grants equal rights in almost every respect to its 1 million-plus Arab population, about 20% of the country

7. None of the surrounding Arab states (with the possible exception of Jordan) can run themselves properly unless ruled by a strong dictator; in many of them (unlike in Israel) women do not have anything like equal rights

8. Not one Arab state has ever given 'refugee' status to a single Palestinian - that's why they have to live in terrible conditions in refugee camps

9. The Israel contribution to advancemnt in fields such as medicine, physics, information technology and many other fields dwarfs the contributions made by the surrounding Arab states, even though the Arabs are more than 200 times more numerous

10. Palestinian terrorists have an absolutely horrific record of mass murder of completely innocent people, just because they think it advances their stated aim of 'wiping Israel off the map'.

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Re: Prime Minister's staunch support for Israel

Post by Woofer on 10.07.14 14:14

Oh dear Tony - I might have known you`d follow with a history - thanks anyway.
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Re: Prime Minister's staunch support for Israel

Post by tigger on 10.07.14 14:35

@Woofer wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10693327/David-Cameron-pledges-unbreakable-support-for-Israel.html

This has worried me.  He is supposed to be speaking for his voters and just because he has Jewish ancestry, we are all supposed to support Israel - what happens if we don`t agree?

Just as in other political news, a lot is misreported or rather  biased imo.

I was in Israel during the Lebanese war, there was a demonstration against the war in Tel Aviv, hundreds of thousands people protested against going to war. it was never reported, not by BBC or any others.

What was also not reported :  most soldiers have full time jobs to  hold down. They hitch-hiked to the war to fulfil their time at the front and if they were lucky they came back in one piece Someof those soldiers had also protested in Tel Aviv.
i also saw the photographs of  the Palestinian 'freedom fighters' -waiting with their Samsonite suitcases to be picked up and taken out of the country to safety.

I also remember Arafat was the recipient of millions if not billions of aid, a very large portion of that ended up in Swiss and French bank accounts.  As is the case now as well, the poor Palestinians are not well served by their government.
More than enough money in aid has been given to build decent housing, to copy the Israeli kibbutz system, to give them medical aid.  
The country of Palestine, which never existed as an independent entity but only as a protectorate could actually become a real country, but those at the top don't want that, they want the total annihilation of  the whole of Israel and all who live there.

Why don't either Jordan or Syria want to take Palestinian refugees?  Quite a large number of Jordanians work in Israel and cross the Allenby bridge daily.
Its a very complicated situation, it would take a month to explain it and then by someone a lot better informed than the media.

If you can find it, there's an old film on the six day war called Kippur, showing war as it is.  Brilliant.

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Lovely people.

Post by PeterMac on 10.07.14 15:15


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Re: Prime Minister's staunch support for Israel

Post by Woofer on 10.07.14 16:19

Interesting reading, but my niggle was that the whole of UK had to support Israel because DC`s ancestors were Jewish.

I realise that whatever side a government decides to take, the populace has to follow, but usually its not just because  of who the PM`s ancestors were.

It brought out the rebel in me. (There isn`t an emoticon for rebel).
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Re: Prime Minister's staunch support for Israel

Post by ultimaThule on 10.07.14 16:40

There are many sound reasons why the West supports the nation state of Israel, Woofer, and I wonder what your reaction would have been if it was Ed Milliband, the first Jewish leader of the Labour Party, making similar remarks during a trip to Israel?
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Re: Prime Minister's staunch support for Israel

Post by comperedna on 10.07.14 16:45

You know, this thread is bound to cause trouble! :-0 Don't lets fight and take our eyes off the ball.

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Re: Prime Minister's staunch support for Israel

Post by Woofer on 10.07.14 16:48

@ultimaThule wrote:There are many sound reasons why the West supports the nation state of Israel, Woofer, and I wonder what your reaction would have been if it was Ed Milliband, the first Jewish leader of the Labour Party, making similar remarks during a trip to Israel?

The same uT - and I`ve xplained why.
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Re: Prime Minister's staunch support for Israel

Post by PeterMac on 10.07.14 17:02

The reality is that the Palestinian Authority received, per capita of the people it controlled, 25 times more aid, mostly given to UNRWA (UN Relief and Work Agency) for Palestinian refugees, than Europeans received after World War II. Moreover, over three-quarters of the funding of UNRWA comes from democratic, non-Arab countries, primarily the U.S., Britain, EU, Germany, Sweden, Norway, and Japan.

In particular, the U.S. has, since the mid-1990s when Palestinians have had some form of rule over the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, committed over $4 billion in bilateral assistance to the Palestinians, who have received per capita almost the largest amount in international aid. Since 2008, the U.S. has given on average about $600 million a year to the Palestinians in bilateral aid: in 2013 the U.S. is giving $444 million. In addition, the U.S. has given $4,150 million to UNRWA since its establishment: it is the largest single state donor.

All this U.S. aid has been given not only for humanitarian reasons, but also in the hopes that Palestinian terrorism may be ended, and that Palestinians would be encouraged to enter into the peace process. So far those hopes have been in vain.

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Re: Prime Minister's staunch support for Israel

Post by sharonl on 10.07.14 17:48

@Woofer wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10693327/David-Cameron-pledges-unbreakable-support-for-Israel.html

This has worried me.  He is supposed to be speaking for his voters and just because he has Jewish ancestry, we are all supposed to support Israel - what happens if we don`t agree?

Woofer

If you follow the threads on the Charities, the patrons who made loans to fund political campaigns, and the cash for honours scandal of 2007, you may realise that there is much more to this than meets the eye.

Dame Vivien Duffield, Patron to one of the charities is one of the multi millionaires who makes huge political loans.  Lord Levy is, or at least was, fundraiser for political campaigns, his sidekick in this was Margaret Hodge (oppenheimer), director of Stemcor and aunt to only person who claimed to have photographed Madeleine on that holiday (Phil Edmonds, also a director of Stemcor).  All these people are jews.

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Re: Prime Minister's staunch support for Israel

Post by mouse on 10.07.14 18:33

Wow! You do seem to have a problem with Jewish people woofer - wasn't it you in another thread when discussing the paedo cover up that you mentioned that Michael Gove wasn't supporting an inquiry and....out of the blue, said - wasn't he Jewish too!

I wonder how many Jewish posters on this forum - you may have offended. You might even have had some very nice conversations with some - you never know.

Labeling groups of people is never good - there are good and bad people everywhere. 

Oh and in case you wondered - I'm not Jewish.

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Re: Prime Minister's staunch support for Israel

Post by Woofer on 10.07.14 19:03

Mouse - you get me wrong it seems.  The MG comment was made because a lot of the suspected Ps are of that faith - and of course people of the same faith often back each other up - bit like freemasons and doctors.
 
This thread was started merely because I get rebelious when my government says it (and that includes all the people that voted them in) will back a certain country (or in this case a race) because the leader of that government belongs to that race - yes they back each other up - but that`s to be expected.  Its nothing to do with having a problem with a race of people at all. 
 
If I like a person, it has nothing to do with their religion.   We all should know there are good and bad in all cultures, religions, persuasions.  If someone is kind - I like them.
 
I just feel as if I`m being told what people in the world I support merely because I`m British, i.e. Ukraine, the Syrian rebels, the USA, the EU.  And I get sick of the BBC being their mouthpiece.
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Re: Prime Minister's staunch support for Israel

Post by mouse on 10.07.14 19:16

No I don't think I got you wrong. We've had catholic priests, we've had celebs (non-Jewish), so why would you think this is a Jewish thing. Paedos and their enablers come from all parties/religions/non-religions. Most I think you'll agree are male, but I wouldn't brand all men with that label either.

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Re: Prime Minister's staunch support for Israel

Post by Woofer on 10.07.14 20:13

@mouse wrote:No I don't think I got you wrong. We've had catholic priests, we've had celebs (non-Jewish), so why would you think this is a Jewish thing. Paedos and their enablers come from all parties/religions/non-religions. Most I think you'll agree are male, but I wouldn't brand all men with that label either.

I didn`t say it was a jewish thing mouse - I said a lot are - and I`m not about to list them and get the forum shut down, so don`t ask.   Stop trying to manipulate my words in order to paint me into a corner I wasn`t in.
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Re: Prime Minister's staunch support for Israel

Post by Guest on 10.07.14 20:16

Why start this new topic?  It is not related to the disappearance of MBM, which is why most of us are here.
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Re: Prime Minister's staunch support for Israel

Post by Woofer on 10.07.14 20:22

@Ladyinred wrote:Why start this new topic?  It is not related to the disappearance of MBM, which is why most of us are here.

That`s why its in the `Have Your Say` section LIR.
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Re: Prime Minister's staunch support for Israel

Post by Guest on 10.07.14 20:33

@Woofer wrote:
@Ladyinred wrote:Why start this new topic?  It is not related to the disappearance of MBM, which is why most of us are here.

That`s why its in the `Have Your Say` section LIR.

Ok, apologies, carry on.
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Re: Prime Minister's staunch support for Israel

Post by mouse on 10.07.14 21:19

@Woofer wrote:
@mouse wrote:No I don't think I got you wrong. We've had catholic priests, we've had celebs (non-Jewish), so why would you think this is a Jewish thing. Paedos and their enablers come from all parties/religions/non-religions. Most I think you'll agree are male, but I wouldn't brand all men with that label either.

I didn`t say it was a jewish thing mouse - I said a lot are - and I`m not about to list them and get the forum shut down, so don`t ask.   Stop trying to manipulate my words in order to paint me into a corner I wasn`t in.

Please don't spin this back on me - I'm not painting anyone into a corner...I think you've made your stance on this matter very clear.

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Re: Prime Minister's staunch support for Israel

Post by tigger on 11.07.14 6:44

Imo you will find Jews everywhere not least because of the diaspora and because - with depressing regularity - they are an easily identified group of people they've been a useful ethnic group to blame for economic and Christian problems.

However, change the word 'Jew' for e.g. 'Anglo-Saxon'. And you'll find them all over the world, in all the contexts Mouse quoted above.

As a lot of professions were blocked to Jews in the past, never knowing when the next progrom would be, they've concentrated on portable wealth in many cases.

i can't see any problem with Cameron's statement, isn't he speaking as head of government? He's not saying that he's right behind Israel (which has a large population of atheist Jews incidentally) because his great- aunty or someone was Jewish?

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Re: Prime Minister's staunch support for Israel

Post by lj on 11.07.14 13:47

@tigger wrote:
@Woofer wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10693327/David-Cameron-pledges-unbreakable-support-for-Israel.html

This has worried me.  He is supposed to be speaking for his voters and just because he has Jewish ancestry, we are all supposed to support Israel - what happens if we don`t agree?

Just as in other political news, a lot is misreported or rather  biased imo.

I was in Israel during the Lebanese war, there was a demonstration against the war in Tel Aviv, hundreds of thousands people protested against going to war. it was never reported, not by BBC or any others.

What was also not reported :  most soldiers have full time jobs to  hold down. They hitch-hiked to the war to fulfil their time at the front and if they were lucky they came back in one piece Someof those soldiers had also protested in Tel Aviv.
i also saw the photographs of  the Palestinian 'freedom fighters' -waiting with their Samsonite suitcases to be picked up and taken out of the country to safety.

I also remember Arafat was the recipient of millions if not billions of aid, a very large portion of that ended up in Swiss and French bank accounts.  As is the case now as well, the poor Palestinians are not well served by their government.
More than enough money in aid has been given to build decent housing, to copy the Israeli kibbutz system, to give them medical aid.  
The country of Palestine, which never existed as an independent entity but only as a protectorate could actually become a real country, but those at the top don't want that, they want the total annihilation of  the whole of Israel and all who live there.

Why don't either Jordan or Syria want to take Palestinian refugees?  Quite a large number of Jordanians work in Israel and cross the Allenby bridge daily.
Its a very complicated situation, it would take a month to explain it and then by someone a lot better informed than the media.

If you can find it, there's an old film on the six day war called Kippur, showing war as it is.  Brilliant.


What is also not reported that for a long time now (talking in years) Egypt is bombimg the Gaza to get rid of houses with terrorists and the tunnels they dig in to Egypt. Wait Egypt does not want Hamas Palestians? What there are terrorists in the Gaza?
oh my. 

Can anyone tell me again how this conflict started?

another oh my

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Re: Prime Minister's staunch support for Israel

Post by tigger on 11.07.14 16:12

@ lj Have a look at the Sykes-Picot treaty - the start of all the troubles.

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Re: Prime Minister's staunch support for Israel

Post by BlueBag on 11.07.14 18:07

@lj wrote:Can anyone tell me again how this conflict started?

I think the Hebrews committed genocide against the Amalekites.

They then claimed the land but that's OK because God told them it's OK.

Genocide is OK sometimes apparently.
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Re: Prime Minister's staunch support for Israel

Post by lj on 11.07.14 19:37

@BlueBag wrote:
@lj wrote:Can anyone tell me again how this conflict started?

I think the Hebrews committed genocide against the Amalekites.

They then claimed the land but that's OK because God told them it's OK.

Genocide is OK sometimes apparently.
I meant the current conflict.

Someone always claims the land and a lot of killing has taken place in the past. Which year in history do you want to be point zero (to borrow a term from Andy).

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Re: Prime Minister's staunch support for Israel

Post by lj on 11.07.14 19:42

@tigger wrote:@ lj   Have a look at the Sykes-Picot treaty - the start of all the troubles.
That indeed was a turning point, but it is not as if that was the first cause of conflict.

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