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Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed

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Re: Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed

Post by Hongkong Phooey on 07.07.14 9:27

Popcorn wrote:How odd. The Gaspars are apparently "weird" because they allowed other parents – who they believed to be friends – to bathe their kids. Just like Martin Grime's methods are questionable, and Goncalo Amaral's. Funny how everybody whose evidence in some way conflicts with that of the parents (one of whom wouldn't even answer police questions) is painted as dubious by someone or other.
The fact is, most people are not paedophiles. A group of parents holidaying together might well decide to bathe the kids as a group, and one or two parents might oversee that task while the others did some other chore. It may not be how some posters here would choose to arrange things, but it is not unheard of, weird or dangerous. What does come across as odd to me is the exchange that Mrs Gaspar overheard between David Payne and Gerry McCann and reported to the police. However, I accept that there could be an innocent explanation for it, I simply haven't thought of one yet, and no statement has been made by any of the parties involved to explain it. After witnessing the exchange she did, and finding no innocent explanation for it, I am not surprised that Mrs Gaspar felt differently about sharing bathing duties. Not weird, not unreliable – just sensible.
I agree 100% I personally think the Gaspar statements are one of the reliable and truthfull statements made (and there's plenty untruthful ones to be found in this case).

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Re: Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed

Post by Praiaaa on 07.07.14 9:31

@autumn2014 wrote:

Digressing slightly to something posted last night asking why the Mccanns would keep this so much in the public eye if they were involved maybe it is to ensure that if they were ever charged they could claim that it would be impossible to receive a fair trial.

Just an opinion

Yes, I have also thought that might be the case.

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Re: Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed

Post by ChippyM on 07.07.14 9:31

Popcorn wrote:How odd. The Gaspars are apparently "weird" because they allowed other parents – who they believed to be friends – to bathe their kids. Just like Martin Grime's methods are questionable, and Goncalo Amaral's. Funny how everybody whose evidence in some way conflicts with that of the parents (one of whom wouldn't even answer police questions) is painted as dubious by someone or other.
The fact is, most people are not paedophiles. A group of parents holidaying together might well decide to bathe the kids as a group, and one or two parents might oversee that task while the others did some other chore. It may not be how some posters here would choose to arrange things, but it is not unheard of, weird or dangerous. ........

 Yes I agree about the Gaspars and the bath situation. Most people don't want to entertain the possibility that people around them might be child abusers. Maybe the group bathing was clevery suggested by someone convincing and manipulative, so that it seemed normal. Most people go with the crowd and don't like to stand out or raise objections when they're not sure about something. It was only later when M. went misssing that K Gaspar questioned events and thought they could have implications.

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Re: Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed

Post by guest. on 07.07.14 9:33

@Hongkong Phooey wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
@Hongkong Phooey wrote:Dr Amaral consistently brings up the 'likes to bathe other people's children' issue, I'm sure he has a pretty good idea of where the investigation should be going.

I completely agree with you on this point. Amaral, having been the victim of the McCanns vexatious litigation for many years, would be unlikely to raise this in a televised interview, at the risk of this jeopardising a 1.2 million lawsuit unless he was confident that he could defend the point to the satisfaction of a judge. Payne's lack of response is deafening.

I also think that various other "investigations" going on into elite pedophile rings, the jailing of Couslon and the clearing of Rebekkah Brooks at the same time as the coalition have pledged to finance Grange to the tune of stupid amounts of money, really really stupidly obscene amounts of money, are not unrelated matters.

Whether a whitewash or a genuine investigation, it is my view that the supposed search for Madeleine is becoming something of a sub-plot to a bigger more important story.
My thoughts are that the sub plot is covering those in 'high places' who are involved in a 'ring'. The subliminal messages and some of the published photographs of M suggest there is something in this. When all is said and done money, sex or drugs are usually behind the major crimes, could very well be all three in this case. All imo.
I have always thought swinging, recreational drugs and a connected guest however the above sadly would not surprise me.

IMO GA is holding a lot back

IMO the Gaspers and the Smiths are genuine

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Re: Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed

Post by autumn2014 on 07.07.14 9:40

Popcorn wrote:How odd. The Gaspars are apparently "weird" because they allowed other parents – who they believed to be friends – to bathe their kids. Just like Martin Grime's methods are questionable, and Goncalo Amaral's. Funny how everybody whose evidence in some way conflicts with that of the parents (one of whom wouldn't even answer police questions) is painted as dubious by someone or other.
The fact is, most people are not paedophiles. A group of parents holidaying together might well decide to bathe the kids as a group, and one or two parents might oversee that task while the others did some other chore. It may not be how some posters here would choose to arrange things, but it is not unheard of, weird or dangerous. What does come across as odd to me is the exchange that Mrs Gaspar overheard between David Payne and Gerry McCann and reported to the police. However, I accept that there could be an innocent explanation for it, I simply haven't thought of one yet, and no statement has been made by any of the parties involved to explain it. After witnessing the exchange she did, and finding no innocent explanation for it, I am not surprised that Mrs Gaspar felt differently about sharing bathing duties. Not weird, not unreliable – just sensible.

I'm not saying I don't believe them I just find the shared bathing strange but that is just an opinion and I acknowledge that other people may find it quite normal. My personal definition of a friend isn't someone I've only just met for the first time and I personally wouldn't allow them to bathe my children. Quoted from Mr Gaspars statement of 16th May 2007 "We planned holidays for the first week of September 2005 in Majorca, Spain, together with three other couples including Kate and Gerry. We did not know the other two couples, they were friends of Kate and Gerry's, we had never met them before." 

In no way am I saying their statements are false as I personally believe them and as for an innocent explanation for what they witnessed between DP/GM sorry can't think of one. Nor do I believe that DP isn't aware of these statements so why if his actions/words were misunderstood or misquoted has he remained silent and not sued or publicly refuted them.

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Re: Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed

Post by Guest on 07.07.14 9:47

@ChippyM wrote:
Popcorn wrote:How odd. The Gaspars are apparently "weird" because they allowed other parents – who they believed to be friends – to bathe their kids. Just like Martin Grime's methods are questionable, and Goncalo Amaral's. Funny how everybody whose evidence in some way conflicts with that of the parents (one of whom wouldn't even answer police questions) is painted as dubious by someone or other.
The fact is, most people are not paedophiles. A group of parents holidaying together might well decide to bathe the kids as a group, and one or two parents might oversee that task while the others did some other chore. It may not be how some posters here would choose to arrange things, but it is not unheard of, weird or dangerous. ........

 Yes I agree about the Gaspars and the bath situation. Most people don't want to entertain the possibility that people around them might be child abusers. Maybe the group bathing was clevery suggested by someone convincing and manipulative, so that it seemed normal. Most people go with the crowd and don't like to stand out or raise objections when they're not sure about something. It was only later when M. went misssing that K Gaspar questioned events and thought they could have implications.
I completely agree with this ChippyM - I personally would not agree to a friend bathing my child (my rationale would be why take the risk, however unlikely) but I see how it could appear to be perfectly fine, esp on a relaxed holiday.  And of course for expediency when the bar awaits.  Very difficult to say without knowing the relationship that existed between the parents.

I am not trying to discredit the Gaspars, I too think they are one of the few genuine parts in this case. I am trying to say that in retrospect and considering what else we now know or suspect about the case then yes, it does ring alarm bells. Especially as we know how manipulative and conviving the Mccanns and the Tapas-crew appear to be.



All in  my own opinion, nothing stated as fact.

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Re: Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed

Post by kevmack on 07.07.14 9:55

I have to agree that the propensity for group holidays among this circle is strange.  The last thing I would want to do when organising a relaxing break away from a stressful job (and the medical profession is stressful) would be to invite along a host of strangers.  A previous job of mine involved constant contact with the public, as well as other agencies and internal departments, I literally spent my entire working week of 40 hours or more, interacting with people.  As such I liked to take my daughter camping to as remote a place as possible, just to get away from the constant clamour of people, the very thought of meeting new people to spend my time off with was incredibly off putting.  Even when my daughter was older and put her foot down in terms of the camping (she hated bugs lol) we just went away together and stayed in a hotel for a few days.

Obviously everyone is different, but these group holidays that both the McCanns and the Paynes liked to organise have always stood out as strange to me.

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Re: Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed

Post by HelenMeg on 07.07.14 9:58

On another thread we discussed the 'shared bathing' and how on the 3rd May the group had asked for the social tennis to be brought forward so that the Men could take part. If  the timing could not be brought forward then the men would have to go and take part in the bathing procedure.

It was most odd that 'group bathing' had such a focus.  I am inclined to think it was deliberately given emphasis in order to be yet another red herring that forums can discuss endlessly.

However, no matter what anyone says,  allowing other adults to bathe your children is complete and utter ridiculousness. It does not happen - it is not normal - it is absurd - does anyone here know anyone that allows their kids to be bathed by others? No of course not. Bathing your small child is something you do, its no bid deal, you enjoy it cos its your kid and that's that. No big deal.

It makes me  think that someone cleverly wants us to  focus on group bathing in order to distract.   
If I am wrong, and they did have a massive focus on group  bathing their kids (which I dont believe for one minute) then they are all extremely weird which is improbable.

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Re: Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed

Post by jeanmonroe on 07.07.14 10:03

So, people in Portugal, have 'prepared' themselves, for visit of the 'saints' tomorrow.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/07/quote-of-day.html

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Re: Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed

Post by HelenMeg on 07.07.14 10:05

BlackCatBoogie wrote:
@ChippyM wrote:
Popcorn wrote:How odd. The Gaspars are apparently "weird" because they allowed other parents – who they believed to be friends – to bathe their kids. Just like Martin Grime's methods are questionable, and Goncalo Amaral's. Funny how everybody whose evidence in some way conflicts with that of the parents (one of whom wouldn't even answer police questions) is painted as dubious by someone or other.
The fact is, most people are not paedophiles. A group of parents holidaying together might well decide to bathe the kids as a group, and one or two parents might oversee that task while the others did some other chore. It may not be how some posters here would choose to arrange things, but it is not unheard of, weird or dangerous. ........

 Yes I agree about the Gaspars and the bath situation. Most people don't want to entertain the possibility that people around them might be child abusers. Maybe the group bathing was clevery suggested by someone convincing and manipulative, so that it seemed normal. Most people go with the crowd and don't like to stand out or raise objections when they're not sure about something. It was only later when M. went misssing that K Gaspar questioned events and thought they could have implications.
I completely agree with this ChippyM - I personally would not agree to a any friend bathing my child but I see how it could appear to be perfectly fine, esp on a relaxed holiday.  And for expediency when the bar awaits...
 
I am not trying to discredit the Gaspars, I too think they are one of the few genuine parts in this case. I am trying to say that in retrospect and considering what else we now know or suspect about the case then yes, it does ring alarm bells. Especially as we know how manipulative and conviving the Mccanns and the Tapas-crew appear to be.

All in  my own opinion, nothing stated as fact.
Well, I struggle to see how it could be fine even on a relaxed holiday with friends. ALL couples and families need private time and welcome that time after a day spent being sociable. Bathing / washing your kids is a routine chore alongside teeth cleaning, toileting / nappy changing. A bath is only so big especially in a small holiday apartment. Bathing was done (they said) at around 6.30pm in the evening.  Imagine after a day out at your holiday resort, you say to your friends' aha now lets all group our kids together before we get ready for the evening ...'  I'm sorry but it is just not plausible - it is completely ridiculous. Can you really imagine all those mothers - Jane, Rachel, Kate and Fiona and their partners - huddling around a bath in order to have a group bath time. Oh sorry - not believable!!!  The more I even begin to contemplate this the more is is so clearly a BIG RED HERRING.

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Re: Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed

Post by Praiaaa on 07.07.14 10:06

The arrogance of this group really is breathtaking. Everything has to revolve around them. Why should the social tennis for all holiday makers be changed around to suit them? Why should the no-bookings rule a the tapas bar be changed for them? Why do they think they should get a discount on baby-listening that is not available simply because this had been available in other resorts which were suited to that service. If these things are all as reported, IMO it really does sound as if they were monopolising the resort - feel very sorry for the other holidaymakers who were there at that time, even without all the antics around MM.

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Re: Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed

Post by AndyB on 07.07.14 10:06

Popcorn wrote:How odd. The Gaspars are apparently "weird" because they allowed other parents – who they believed to be friends – to bathe their kids. Just like Martin Grime's methods are questionable, and Goncalo Amaral's. Funny how everybody whose evidence in some way conflicts with that of the parents (one of whom wouldn't even answer police questions) is painted as dubious by someone or other.
I'm neither casting aspersions as to the reliability of their statements nor trying to paint them as dubious in some way and for the record I think that the Gasper statements may well run to the heart of what was going on in PdL. They are IMO very important and their importance is highlighted by the UK's failure to pass them onto the PJ for (I think) six months. None of that though prevents me from voicing the opinion that I find it weird that they - or any other parent for that matter - would let people that they don't know that well bathe their children. However, as I'm not a parent, I have to accept that my thinking maybe different to those that have children

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Re: Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed

Post by HelenMeg on 07.07.14 10:08

@AndyB wrote:
Popcorn wrote:How odd. The Gaspars are apparently "weird" because they allowed other parents – who they believed to be friends – to bathe their kids. Just like Martin Grime's methods are questionable, and Goncalo Amaral's. Funny how everybody whose evidence in some way conflicts with that of the parents (one of whom wouldn't even answer police questions) is painted as dubious by someone or other.
I'm neither casting aspersions as to the reliability of their statements nor trying to paint them as dubious in some way and for the record I think that the Gasper statements may well run to the heart of what was going on in PdL. They are IMO very important and their importance is highlighted by the UK's failure to pass them onto the PJ for (I think) six months. None of that though prevents me from voicing the opinion that I find it weird that they - or any other parent for that matter - would let people that they don't know that well bathe their children. However, as I'm not a parent, I have to accept that my thinking maybe different to those that have children
Well it is completely unnatural and against any instinct to trust an intimate duty such as bathing your small child to anyone other than you, your partner or your mother.

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Re: Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed

Post by AndyB on 07.07.14 10:12

@HelenMeg wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
Popcorn wrote:How odd. The Gaspars are apparently "weird" because they allowed other parents – who they believed to be friends – to bathe their kids. Just like Martin Grime's methods are questionable, and Goncalo Amaral's. Funny how everybody whose evidence in some way conflicts with that of the parents (one of whom wouldn't even answer police questions) is painted as dubious by someone or other.
I'm neither casting aspersions as to the reliability of their statements nor trying to paint them as dubious in some way and for the record I think that the Gasper statements may well run to the heart of what was going on in PdL. They are IMO very important and their importance is highlighted by the UK's failure to pass them onto the PJ for (I think) six months. None of that though prevents me from voicing the opinion that I find it weird that they - or any other parent for that matter - would let people that they don't know that well bathe their children. However, as I'm not a parent, I have to accept that my thinking maybe different to those that have children
Well it is completely unnatural and against any instinct to trust an intimate duty such as bathing your small child to anyone other than you, your partner or your mother.
That's what I thought, hence my "weird" comment that people seem to have taken exception to.

I've just had another thought. Didn't Hobs once say that references to water/showering/bathing were references to sex in statement analysis. It would be good to get that confirmed or denied before I start down a very sinister path

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Re: Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed

Post by BlueBag on 07.07.14 10:19

Popcorn wrote:How odd. The Gaspars are apparently "weird" because they allowed other parents – who they believed to be friends – to bathe their kids. Just like Martin Grime's methods are questionable, and Goncalo Amaral's. Funny how everybody whose evidence in some way conflicts with that of the parents (one of whom wouldn't even answer police questions) is painted as dubious by someone or other.
The fact is, most people are not paedophiles. A group of parents holidaying together might well decide to bathe the kids as a group, and one or two parents might oversee that task while the others did some other chore. It may not be how some posters here would choose to arrange things, but it is not unheard of, weird or dangerous. What does come across as odd to me is the exchange that Mrs Gaspar overheard between David Payne and Gerry McCann and reported to the police. However, I accept that there could be an innocent explanation for it, I simply haven't thought of one yet, and no statement has been made by any of the parties involved to explain it. After witnessing the exchange she did, and finding no innocent explanation for it, I am not surprised that Mrs Gaspar felt differently about sharing bathing duties. Not weird, not unreliable – just sensible.

100% agree.

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Re: Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed

Post by Guest on 07.07.14 10:21

@AndyB wrote:
I'm neither casting aspersions as to the reliability of their statements nor trying to paint them as dubious in some way and for the record I think that the Gasper statements may well run to the heart of what was going on in PdL. They are IMO very important and their importance is highlighted by the UK's failure to pass them onto the PJ for (I think) six months. None of that though prevents me from voicing the opinion that I find it weird that they - or any other parent for that matter - would let people that they don't know that well bathe their children. However, as I'm not a parent, I have to accept that my thinking maybe different to those that have children

It isn't.

Being bluntly honest, I don't even bathe my own daughter - I leave that to the ball and chain.

However, people are strange (Jim Morrison said that fifty years ago, and it's still true) and it's possible that the communal bathing is an extension of the shared holiday, halls of residence bed-hopping style existence that these manchild middle class types never quite seem to be able to grow out of.

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Re: Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed

Post by Guest on 07.07.14 10:23

@HelenMeg wrote:
BlackCatBoogie wrote:
@ChippyM wrote:
Popcorn wrote:How odd. The Gaspars are apparently "weird" because they allowed other parents – who they believed to be friends – to bathe their kids. Just like Martin Grime's methods are questionable, and Goncalo Amaral's. Funny how everybody whose evidence in some way conflicts with that of the parents (one of whom wouldn't even answer police questions) is painted as dubious by someone or other.
The fact is, most people are not paedophiles. A group of parents holidaying together might well decide to bathe the kids as a group, and one or two parents might oversee that task while the others did some other chore. It may not be how some posters here would choose to arrange things, but it is not unheard of, weird or dangerous. ........

 Yes I agree about the Gaspars and the bath situation. Most people don't want to entertain the possibility that people around them might be child abusers. Maybe the group bathing was clevery suggested by someone convincing and manipulative, so that it seemed normal. Most people go with the crowd and don't like to stand out or raise objections when they're not sure about something. It was only later when M. went misssing that K Gaspar questioned events and thought they could have implications.
I completely agree with this ChippyM - I personally would not agree to a any friend bathing my child but I see how it could appear to be perfectly fine, esp on a relaxed holiday.  And for expediency when the bar awaits...
 
I am not trying to discredit the Gaspars, I too think they are one of the few genuine parts in this case. I am trying to say that in retrospect and considering what else we now know or suspect about the case then yes, it does ring alarm bells. Especially as we know how manipulative and conviving the Mccanns and the Tapas-crew appear to be.

All in  my own opinion, nothing stated as fact.
Well, I struggle to see how it could be fine even on a relaxed holiday with friends. ALL couples and families need private time and welcome that time after a day spent being sociable. Bathing / washing your kids is a routine chore alongside teeth cleaning, toileting / nappy changing. A bath is only so big especially in a small holiday apartment. Bathing was done (they said) at around 6.30pm in the evening.  Imagine after a day out at your holiday resort, you say to your friends' aha now lets all group our kids together before we get ready for the evening ...'  I'm sorry but it is just not plausible - it is completely ridiculous. Can you really imagine all those mothers - Jane, Rachel, Kate and Fiona and their partners - huddling around a bath in order to have a group bath time. Oh sorry - not believable!!!  The more I even begin to contemplate this the more is is so clearly a BIG RED HERRING.
I agree HelenMeg group bathing would seem like hell on earth to me, but at the same time children do play a lot in the bath and I can see that it is just about feasible that if a couple of  children played together in the day then they would be allowed to continue to play in the bath together.  Not withstanding the fact that there would only be room for a couple of them in the bath and they would then have to get dried, dressed and back to their own apartment. Logistically hell on earth I completely agree.  And I'm not sure that I would feel comfortable with friends sharing a bath, as you say that is something normally done within a family only. Depends so  much on the context which we don't know.

And of course there is the question mark over where the children were sleeping i.e. did they bed them all down in the same apartment/room on their group holidays for ease of babysitting - would this make it more understandable/logistically sensible?

But then the Gaspar statement clearly says that it did happen so there had to be some rationale behind it.

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Re: Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 07.07.14 10:29

sally66 wrote:
@Hongkong Phooey wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
@Hongkong Phooey wrote:Dr Amaral consistently brings up the 'likes to bathe other people's children' issue, I'm sure he has a pretty good idea of where the investigation should be going.

I completely agree with you on this point. Amaral, having been the victim of the McCanns vexatious litigation for many years, would be unlikely to raise this in a televised interview, at the risk of this jeopardising a 1.2 million lawsuit unless he was confident that he could defend the point to the satisfaction of a judge. Payne's lack of response is deafening.

I also think that various other "investigations" going on into elite pedophile rings, the jailing of Couslon and the clearing of Rebekkah Brooks at the same time as the coalition have pledged to finance Grange to the tune of stupid amounts of money, really really stupidly obscene amounts of money, are not unrelated matters.

Whether a whitewash or a genuine investigation, it is my view that the supposed search for Madeleine is becoming something of a sub-plot to a bigger more important story.
My thoughts are that the sub plot is covering those in 'high places' who are involved in a 'ring'. The subliminal messages and some of the published photographs of M suggest there is something in this. When all is said and done money, sex or drugs are usually behind the major crimes, could very well be all three in this case. All imo.
I have always thought swinging, recreational drugs and a connected guest however the above sadly would not surprise me.

IMO GA is holding a lot back

IMO the Gaspers and the Smiths are genuine

The bit I've highlighted in red could be involved, but deep down I believe this involves much worse than that because when all is said and done the McCanns and their Tapas friends are a bunch of nobodies. They act as if they are of some consequence in the world which, of course, they are not. So logically, the only reason ANYONE in the media, SY or the Government will have given them more than 5 minutes of attention is that it is KNOWN that there is some link to something which IS of consequence. It is also possible that the time, money and obfuscation thrown at the case of one solitary missing child, to keep the case rumbling on long after it has expired it's sell by date, is to make this case so ingrained the general populous' psyche that when the lid gets blown of the TRUE, bigger and more devastating story that there will not even one shred of a hope that it can be covered up and whitewashed. IMO.

____________________
The truth will out.

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Re: Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed

Post by Guest on 07.07.14 10:33

@HelenMeg wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
Popcorn wrote:How odd. The Gaspars are apparently "weird" because they allowed other parents – who they believed to be friends – to bathe their kids. Just like Martin Grime's methods are questionable, and Goncalo Amaral's. Funny how everybody whose evidence in some way conflicts with that of the parents (one of whom wouldn't even answer police questions) is painted as dubious by someone or other.
I'm neither casting aspersions as to the reliability of their statements nor trying to paint them as dubious in some way and for the record I think that the Gasper statements may well run to the heart of what was going on in PdL. They are IMO very important and their importance is highlighted by the UK's failure to pass them onto the PJ for (I think) six months. None of that though prevents me from voicing the opinion that I find it weird that they - or any other parent for that matter - would let people that they don't know that well bathe their children. However, as I'm not a parent, I have to accept that my thinking maybe different to those that have children
Well it is completely unnatural and against any instinct to trust an intimate duty such as bathing your small child to anyone other than you, your partner or your mother.

Perhaps to you but not to a great many people, especially working parents, who routinely farm out far more intimate duties to people they know no better than the Gaspars knew the McCanns. If you leave your toddler with a childminder, in a creche or at a nursery, at some point somebody will need to take that child to the toilet and help them wipe their bottom or change their nappy. That's pretty intimate - more so, I'd contend, than plonking them in a bath and wiping them down with a sponge. I'm not saying that there are not some people who might abuse children in such a situation (just as they might do so while taking them to the toilet), and I make no comment on David Payne's role here, but I do not think that parents holidaying in a group and sharing such parenting chores is weird and I find it sad that some people are criticising the Gaspars for having a different outlook on parenting to them.

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Re: Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed

Post by joyce1938 on 07.07.14 10:49

Mrs gasper ofcourse was speaking about her experience when she went on holiday to Majorca with a group  which were a dfferent prople some same but no macs. The way km speakes about THEIR ROUTINE FOR BED ,DID NOT SMACK OF COMMUNIAL BATHING OF KIDS AT ALL  A lot was made about teeth brushing etc etc ,as betime routine .Mayb eit was not done on this trip to Portugal ?joyce1938

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Re: Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed

Post by AndyB on 07.07.14 10:50

@AndyB wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
Popcorn wrote:How odd. The Gaspars are apparently "weird" because they allowed other parents – who they believed to be friends – to bathe their kids. Just like Martin Grime's methods are questionable, and Goncalo Amaral's. Funny how everybody whose evidence in some way conflicts with that of the parents (one of whom wouldn't even answer police questions) is painted as dubious by someone or other.
I'm neither casting aspersions as to the reliability of their statements nor trying to paint them as dubious in some way and for the record I think that the Gasper statements may well run to the heart of what was going on in PdL. They are IMO very important and their importance is highlighted by the UK's failure to pass them onto the PJ for (I think) six months. None of that though prevents me from voicing the opinion that I find it weird that they - or any other parent for that matter - would let people that they don't know that well bathe their children. However, as I'm not a parent, I have to accept that my thinking maybe different to those that have children
Well it is completely unnatural and against any instinct to trust an intimate duty such as bathing your small child to anyone other than you, your partner or your mother.
That's what I thought, hence my "weird" comment that people seem to have taken exception to.

I've just had another thought. Didn't Hobs once say that references to water/showering/bathing were references to sex in statement analysis. It would be good to get that confirmed or denied before I start down a very sinister path
I've found it.  http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8691p190-latest-textusa-blogspot-update-new-blog-bombshelling-re-goncalo-amaral-on-page-22#252890
@Hobs wrote:In statement analysis where water, washing hands, bathing is mentioned , it can be a sign of sexual activity taking place

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Re: Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed

Post by guest. on 07.07.14 10:52

@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
sally66 wrote:
@Hongkong Phooey wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
@Hongkong Phooey wrote:Dr Amaral consistently brings up the 'likes to bathe other people's children' issue, I'm sure he has a pretty good idea of where the investigation should be going.

I completely agree with you on this point. Amaral, having been the victim of the McCanns vexatious litigation for many years, would be unlikely to raise this in a televised interview, at the risk of this jeopardising a 1.2 million lawsuit unless he was confident that he could defend the point to the satisfaction of a judge. Payne's lack of response is deafening.

I also think that various other "investigations" going on into elite pedophile rings, the jailing of Couslon and the clearing of Rebekkah Brooks at the same time as the coalition have pledged to finance Grange to the tune of stupid amounts of money, really really stupidly obscene amounts of money, are not unrelated matters.

Whether a whitewash or a genuine investigation, it is my view that the supposed search for Madeleine is becoming something of a sub-plot to a bigger more important story.
My thoughts are that the sub plot is covering those in 'high places' who are involved in a 'ring'. The subliminal messages and some of the published photographs of M suggest there is something in this. When all is said and done money, sex or drugs are usually behind the major crimes, could very well be all three in this case. All imo.
I have always thought swinging, recreational drugs and a connected guest however the above sadly would not surprise me.

IMO GA is holding a lot back

IMO the Gaspers and the Smiths are genuine

The bit I've highlighted in red could be involved, but deep down I believe this involves much worse than that because when all is said and done the McCanns and their Tapas friends are a bunch of nobodies. They act as if they are of some consequence in the world which, of course, they are not. So logically, the only reason ANYONE in the media, SY or the Government will have given them more than 5 minutes of attention is that it is KNOWN that there is some link to something which IS of consequence. It is also possible that the time, money and obfuscation thrown at the case of one solitary missing child, to keep the case rumbling on long after it has expired it's sell by date, is to make this case so ingrained the general populous' psyche that when the lid gets blown of the TRUE, bigger and more devastating story that there will not even one shred of a hope that it can be covered up and whitewashed. IMO.
It wouldn't surprise me at all, I think I just hope it's not that although I accept it is a strong possibility

The media attention IMO NI have been instrumental in as it gives them power over whomever may be involved in a cover up and if the truth ever comes out they'll sell loads of papers so a win win for them

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Re: Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed

Post by HelenMeg on 07.07.14 10:58

BlackCatBoogie wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:
BlackCatBoogie wrote:
@ChippyM wrote:
Popcorn wrote:How odd. The Gaspars are apparently "weird" because they allowed other parents – who they believed to be friends – to bathe their kids. Just like Martin Grime's methods are questionable, and Goncalo Amaral's. Funny how everybody whose evidence in some way conflicts with that of the parents (one of whom wouldn't even answer police questions) is painted as dubious by someone or other.
The fact is, most people are not paedophiles. A group of parents holidaying together might well decide to bathe the kids as a group, and one or two parents might oversee that task while the others did some other chore. It may not be how some posters here would choose to arrange things, but it is not unheard of, weird or dangerous. ........

 Yes I agree about the Gaspars and the bath situation. Most people don't want to entertain the possibility that people around them might be child abusers. Maybe the group bathing was clevery suggested by someone convincing and manipulative, so that it seemed normal. Most people go with the crowd and don't like to stand out or raise objections when they're not sure about something. It was only later when M. went misssing that K Gaspar questioned events and thought they could have implications.
I completely agree with this ChippyM - I personally would not agree to a any friend bathing my child but I see how it could appear to be perfectly fine, esp on a relaxed holiday.  And for expediency when the bar awaits...
 
I am not trying to discredit the Gaspars, I too think they are one of the few genuine parts in this case. I am trying to say that in retrospect and considering what else we now know or suspect about the case then yes, it does ring alarm bells. Especially as we know how manipulative and conviving the Mccanns and the Tapas-crew appear to be.

All in  my own opinion, nothing stated as fact.
Well, I struggle to see how it could be fine even on a relaxed holiday with friends. ALL couples and families need private time and welcome that time after a day spent being sociable. Bathing / washing your kids is a routine chore alongside teeth cleaning, toileting / nappy changing. A bath is only so big especially in a small holiday apartment. Bathing was done (they said) at around 6.30pm in the evening.  Imagine after a day out at your holiday resort, you say to your friends' aha now lets all group our kids together before we get ready for the evening ...'  I'm sorry but it is just not plausible - it is completely ridiculous. Can you really imagine all those mothers - Jane, Rachel, Kate and Fiona and their partners - huddling around a bath in order to have a group bath time. Oh sorry - not believable!!!  The more I even begin to contemplate this the more is is so clearly a BIG RED HERRING.
I agree HelenMeg group bathing would seem like hell on earth to me, but at the same time children do play a lot in the bath and I can see that it is just about feasible that if a couple of  children played together in the day then they would be allowed to continue to play in the bath together.  Not withstanding the fact that there would only be room for a couple of them in the bath and they would then have to get dried, dressed and back to their own apartment. Logistically hell on earth I completely agree.  And I'm not sure that I would feel comfortable with friends sharing a bath, as you say that is something normally done within a family only. Depends so  much on the context which we don't know.

And of course there is the question mark over where the children were sleeping i.e. did they bed them all down in the same apartment/room on their group holidays for ease of babysitting - would this make it more understandable/logistically sensible?

But then the Gaspar statement clearly says that it did happen so there had to be some rationale behind it.
Yes BCB, i think you are right in that the sleeping arrangements may have played a part.
If the children were to be sleeping in one room / apartment and supervised by one member of the gang, then it may make sense that the routines such as bathing were done together in preparation for sleep. Good spot. !

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Re: Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed

Post by Guest on 07.07.14 11:01

offtopic I really don't know how this thread has gone so way off topic, but someone has bumped/commented on the Gaspar thread in debate section recently

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t9884-gaspar-statements-different-perspective

Perhaps post your thoughts there and get this thread back on topic.

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Re: Breaking News on Sky News - SY back in PDL suspects to be interviewed

Post by Guest on 07.07.14 11:03

@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
sally66 wrote:
@Hongkong Phooey wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
@Hongkong Phooey wrote:Dr Amaral consistently brings up the 'likes to bathe other people's children' issue, I'm sure he has a pretty good idea of where the investigation should be going.

I completely agree with you on this point. Amaral, having been the victim of the McCanns vexatious litigation for many years, would be unlikely to raise this in a televised interview, at the risk of this jeopardising a 1.2 million lawsuit unless he was confident that he could defend the point to the satisfaction of a judge. Payne's lack of response is deafening.

I also think that various other "investigations" going on into elite pedophile rings, the jailing of Couslon and the clearing of Rebekkah Brooks at the same time as the coalition have pledged to finance Grange to the tune of stupid amounts of money, really really stupidly obscene amounts of money, are not unrelated matters.

Whether a whitewash or a genuine investigation, it is my view that the supposed search for Madeleine is becoming something of a sub-plot to a bigger more important story.
My thoughts are that the sub plot is covering those in 'high places' who are involved in a 'ring'. The subliminal messages and some of the published photographs of M suggest there is something in this. When all is said and done money, sex or drugs are usually behind the major crimes, could very well be all three in this case. All imo.
I have always thought swinging, recreational drugs and a connected guest however the above sadly would not surprise me.

IMO GA is holding a lot back

IMO the Gaspers and the Smiths are genuine

The bit I've highlighted in red could be involved, but deep down I believe this involves much worse than that because when all is said and done the McCanns and their Tapas friends are a bunch of nobodies. They act as if they are of some consequence in the world which, of course, they are not. So logically, the only reason ANYONE in the media, SY or the Government will have given them more than 5 minutes of attention is that it is KNOWN that there is some link to something which IS of consequence. It is also possible that the time, money and obfuscation thrown at the case of one solitary missing child, to keep the case rumbling on long after it has expired it's sell by date, is to make this case so ingrained the general populous' psyche that when the lid gets blown of the TRUE, bigger and more devastating story that there will not even one shred of a hope that it can be covered up and whitewashed. IMO.
That is a very interesting comment S&M, there has to be a reason why this case has been played out for so long and kept in the media.  Who exactly do you think is keeping the story rumbling along?  Backed by who? And why? Blackmail, political favours?

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