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Leon Brittan urged to comment on paedophile dossier

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Re: Leon Brittan urged to comment on paedophile dossier

Post by Woofer on 04.07.14 8:55

I`m being pedantic this morning, having seen his name spelt Britten, Britton and Britten - I wasn`t sure myself so :-
 
Leon Brittan or Baron Brittan of Spennithorn QC, PC, DL is spelt with an `a`
 
Leon Britton the footballer is spelt with an `o`.
 
Oh and by the way, Leon Brittan admits to having read the dossier and even named a few of the people in his letter back to Geoffrey Dickens, so ................... HE KNOWS WHO WAS NAMED ........ just tell the Officer, there`s a good boy.

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I do not think this is going to go away now.

Post by PeterMac on 04.07.14 9:11

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2680060/Tebbit-piles-pressure-Brittan-VIP-abusers-Tory-grandee-joins-chorus-demanding-explanation-missing-dossier-detailing-Westminster-paedophile-ring.html
Why I'm ready to name names, by former children's minister TIM LOUGHTON

Fears: Former children's Minister Tim Loughton says the continuing allegations is undermining public confidence in children's safety
Every week seems to bring some horrific new story about historical child abuse. The avalanche of allegations is confusing and frightening, and this latest story undermines public confidence in our children’s safety even further.

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Re: Leon Brittan urged to comment on paedophile dossier

Post by Cristobell on 04.07.14 9:36

@tigger wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
@Woofer wrote:Cristobell - I agree with you on many matters, but your replies to uT have surprised me - its as if you are defending depravity.
I'm accepting that it exists Woofer, not defending it.  Its not my cup of tea, but I passionately oppose censorship.  We are all different Woofer, we have different tastes, different views. 

I find exteme violence in movies disturbing, far more disturbing than scenes of a sexual nature, but I wouldn't dream of asking for them to be banned, because millions of people out there enjoy them.  I don't expect the world to revolve around my tastes. Incidentally, young boys are far more likely to be playing graphic video games with explicit scenes of violence and gore, than watching porn. Shouldn't we more concerned about our kids watching heads being hacked off, than a couple having sex?

Protection of children begins in the home imo Woofer.  We can't protect our children from what they see, that would be impossible unless we chaperoned them 24/7, but we can prepare them for what they will encounter in the big bad world.

If the bolded words are your definition of pornography I'm afraid that  you're wrong, Cristobell. It explains why you recently posted elsewhere that there's not much wrong with porn and that most men watch it. (not. Litt. quote)

Pornography is addictive and can escalate from a mere photograph of a a couple having sex to snuff movies.
The internet has turned into a major industry and we're talking billons here.

As for young boys playing violent video games, many porn movies are extremely graphic and violent so a double whammy.

The 'peeping Tom' type of  film is imo relatively harmless although pathetic, so is Playboy and you only have to go to a nude beach to realise nudity does not equate with porn.

But for many years mainstream films, TV series and bestselling books have focussed on violent, descriptive sex. It used not to get past the censors, now each one has to be more shocking, more graphic in order to attract the money and porn industry has to follow that by producing even more depraved imagery. For it's all about money and those who produce the porn and snuff movies don't care about the human cost.
Lets keep a sense of perspective.  Most pornographic films involve a guy with a dodgy moustache turning up to 'fix' something for an amorous and underdressed housewife, and variations thereof.

As for pornography being addictive, I can honestly say that I have never in my entire life met anyone addicted to pornography and I have worked in a wide variety of environments.  So where is the evidence of this destructive addiction?

 I do however know a huge number of people who are addicted to games online, bingo in particular, and who have lost huge sums of money through gambling.

I'm not defending the sex industry, I'm just acknowledging that it exists, as I said before, prostitution is the oldest profession in the world, and the righteous have been protesting about depravity for just as long.   

I couldn't care less what people get up to in the bedrooms or if they want to share it with others online, but I do find it bizarre that the righteous want legislation on it.  Eg, on the bed is OK, but swinging from the lightfixing will incur a jail sentence.  Depravity must be stamped out.

Do snuff movies even exist, or are they an urban legend?  What I dislike about these alarmist scare tactics, is that they play right into the hands of people like Jim Gamble who want to 'police' the internet.

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Re: Leon Brittan urged to comment on paedophile dossier

Post by aquila on 04.07.14 9:50

@Cristobell wrote:
@tigger wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
@Woofer wrote:Cristobell - I agree with you on many matters, but your replies to uT have surprised me - its as if you are defending depravity.
I'm accepting that it exists Woofer, not defending it.  Its not my cup of tea, but I passionately oppose censorship.  We are all different Woofer, we have different tastes, different views. 

I find exteme violence in movies disturbing, far more disturbing than scenes of a sexual nature, but I wouldn't dream of asking for them to be banned, because millions of people out there enjoy them.  I don't expect the world to revolve around my tastes. Incidentally, young boys are far more likely to be playing graphic video games with explicit scenes of violence and gore, than watching porn. Shouldn't we more concerned about our kids watching heads being hacked off, than a couple having sex?

Protection of children begins in the home imo Woofer.  We can't protect our children from what they see, that would be impossible unless we chaperoned them 24/7, but we can prepare them for what they will encounter in the big bad world.

If the bolded words are your definition of pornography I'm afraid that  you're wrong, Cristobell. It explains why you recently posted elsewhere that there's not much wrong with porn and that most men watch it. (not. Litt. quote)

Pornography is addictive and can escalate from a mere photograph of a a couple having sex to snuff movies.
The internet has turned into a major industry and we're talking billons here.

As for young boys playing violent video games, many porn movies are extremely graphic and violent so a double whammy.

The 'peeping Tom' type of  film is imo relatively harmless although pathetic, so is Playboy and you only have to go to a nude beach to realise nudity does not equate with porn.

But for many years mainstream films, TV series and bestselling books have focussed on violent, descriptive sex. It used not to get past the censors, now each one has to be more shocking, more graphic in order to attract the money and porn industry has to follow that by producing even more depraved imagery. For it's all about money and those who produce the porn and snuff movies don't care about the human cost.
Lets keep a sense of perspective.  Most pornographic films involve a guy with a dodgy moustache turning up to 'fix' something for an amorous and underdressed housewife, and variations thereof.

As for pornography being addictive, I can honestly say that I have never in my entire life met anyone addicted to pornography and I have worked in a wide variety of environments.  So where is the evidence of this destructive addiction?

 I do however know a huge number of people who are addicted to games online, bingo in particular, and who have lost huge sums of money through gambling.

I'm not defending the sex industry, I'm just acknowledging that it exists, as I said before, prostitution is the oldest profession in the world, and the righteous have been protesting about depravity for just as long.   

I couldn't care less what people get up to in the bedrooms or if they want to share it with others online, but I do find it bizarre that the righteous want legislation on it.  Eg, on the bed is OK, but swinging from the lightfixing will incur a jail sentence.  Depravity must be stamped out.

Do snuff movies even exist, or are they an urban legend?  What I dislike about these alarmist scare tactics, is that they play right into the hands of people like Jim Gamble who want to 'police' the internet.
There's something quite sweet about your naivety Cristobell.

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Re: Leon Brittan urged to comment on paedophile dossier

Post by Guest on 04.07.14 10:15

@aquila wrote:
There's something quite sweet about your naivety Cristobell.

I must say, whilst I might agree with the main thrust (ahem) of what Cristobell says, her description of the nature of pornography suggests that she might not be quite as "informed" in this area as she thinks she is. Further research needed! But I made quite a long post elsewhere yesterday about why I think the extent of some of the issues being discussed here are overstated. I suspect that the sad reality of the porn industry is that coercion is rarely necessary.

And the "solution" to these problems - namely one Jim Gamble - scares the living **** out of me, for many reasons, in a way that Piotr the people smuggler is never likely to.




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Re: Leon Brittan urged to comment on paedophile dossier

Post by Cristobell on 04.07.14 10:29

@Woofer wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
@Woofer wrote:Cristobell - I agree with you on many matters, but your replies to uT have surprised me - its as if you are defending depravity.
I'm accepting that it exists Woofer, not defending it.  Its not my cup of tea, but I passionately oppose censorship.  We are all different Woofer, we have different tastes, different views. 

I find exteme violence in movies disturbing, far more disturbing than scenes of a sexual nature, but I wouldn't dream of asking for them to be banned, because millions of people out there enjoy them.  I don't expect the world to revolve around my tastes. Incidentally, young boys are far more likely to be playing graphic video games with explicit scenes of violence and gore, than watching porn. Shouldn't we more concerned about our kids watching heads being hacked off, than a couple having sex?

Protection of children begins in the home imo Woofer.  We can't protect our children from what they see, that would be impossible unless we chaperoned them 24/7, but we can prepare them for what they will encounter in the big bad world.

Yes, agree with you there and a couple of your other points, but as you know there is `sex` and `sordid sex`.
Whilst I`m against banning, I just see a slippery slope of what has become acceptable sliding into the gutter - it has gone from smutty mags and page 3 girls into the sewers of anything goes and before too long violent and sordid sex and who knows even bestiality and the most graphic violence will become acceptable.  I realise it is all out there, somewhere, but the more prolific it becomes, the more desensitised people become. If its like this now, imagine what it will be like in say 10 or 20 years.
These are the very same arguments that have been used for centuries.  In the 1930's, it was predicted that we were all going to hell in a handcart if a male and a female were seen on a bed together, enter Will Hays and censorship. 

I remember one of my old lecturers pointing out that if he had sex with a chicken in front of the class we would be outraged, yet if he broke its neck, it would be acceptable.  Its all a question of aesthetics.  What is good and bad taste?

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Re: Leon Brittan urged to comment on paedophile dossier

Post by BlueBag on 04.07.14 11:26

Sex with a chicken is definitely bad taste.

Did the chicken consent?

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Re: Leon Brittan urged to comment on paedophile dossier

Post by tigger on 04.07.14 11:30

@Cristobell wrote:
@Woofer wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
@Woofer wrote:Cristobell - I agree with you on many matters, but your replies to uT have surprised me - its as if you are defending depravity.
I'm accepting that it exists Woofer, not defending it.  Its not my cup of tea, but I passionately oppose censorship.  We are all different Woofer, we have different tastes, different views. 

I find exteme violence in movies disturbing, far more disturbing than scenes of a sexual nature, but I wouldn't dream of asking for them to be banned, because millions of people out there enjoy them.  I don't expect the world to revolve around my tastes. Incidentally, young boys are far more likely to be playing graphic video games with explicit scenes of violence and gore, than watching porn. Shouldn't we more concerned about our kids watching heads being hacked off, than a couple having sex?

Protection of children begins in the home imo Woofer.  We can't protect our children from what they see, that would be impossible unless we chaperoned them 24/7, but we can prepare them for what they will encounter in the big bad world.

Yes, agree with you there and a couple of your other points, but as you know there is `sex` and `sordid sex`.
Whilst I`m against banning, I just see a slippery slope of what has become acceptable sliding into the gutter - it has gone from smutty mags and page 3 girls into the sewers of anything goes and before too long violent and sordid sex and who knows even bestiality and the most graphic violence will become acceptable.  I realise it is all out there, somewhere, but the more prolific it becomes, the more desensitised people become. If its like this now, imagine what it will be like in say 10 or 20 years.
These are the very same arguments that have been used for centuries.  In the 1930's, it was predicted that we were all going to hell in a handcart if a male and a female were seen on a bed together, enter Will Hays and censorship. 

I remember one of my old lecturers pointing out that if he had sex with a chicken in front of the class we would be outraged, yet if he broke its neck, it would be acceptable.  Its all a question of aesthetics.  What is good and bad taste?

Errm, it would be bestiality and the one action would be short and painful and the other one would get the RSPA out as it would be torture of animal.

As for your earlier definition of porn as a bloke with a dodgy noustache (can't quite picture that, dodgy guy, yes) who 's come to fix the plumbing or whatever, I love it!

But it is not what we are talking about, that's soft porn of which some  thirty years ago I have seen an example in an Anne Summers shop where you could watch a modern version of 'What the butler saw' .
It featured a dodgy bloke, a sort of Noel Coward type  in a silk dressing gown. I found it hilarious and not at all exciting in the way it was meant to be.
Soft porn like that is not a real problem. Thousands of years old in fact, Etruscan depictions and some of the Greek and. Roman are soft porn if you like. Even those huge 17th C paintings of a naked Andromeda chained to the rocks, St. Sebastian pierced with arrows would count as soft porn.
Anything that even simulates rape / children gets into the hard porn area imo and of course you've never seen a snuff movie, but any policeman will assure there are plenty of them.  They earn the makers and distributors lots of money.

Btw it's the Kama Sutra, not the Karma - although I do hope that Karma will come in spades to those who produce hard porn. winkwink

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Re: Leon Brittan urged to comment on paedophile dossier

Post by Cristobell on 04.07.14 13:08

@BlueBag wrote:Sex with a chicken is definitely bad taste.

Did the chicken consent?

Lol, it was a hypothetical situation BlueBag, but one that led to an interesting and somewhat hilarious discussion about aesthetics.  A number of people were protesting on behalf of the chicken and there were a few impressions  big grin

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Re: Leon Brittan urged to comment on paedophile dossier

Post by Cristobell on 04.07.14 13:10

@tigger wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
@Woofer wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
@Woofer wrote:Cristobell - I agree with you on many matters, but your replies to uT have surprised me - its as if you are defending depravity.
I'm accepting that it exists Woofer, not defending it.  Its not my cup of tea, but I passionately oppose censorship.  We are all different Woofer, we have different tastes, different views. 

I find exteme violence in movies disturbing, far more disturbing than scenes of a sexual nature, but I wouldn't dream of asking for them to be banned, because millions of people out there enjoy them.  I don't expect the world to revolve around my tastes. Incidentally, young boys are far more likely to be playing graphic video games with explicit scenes of violence and gore, than watching porn. Shouldn't we more concerned about our kids watching heads being hacked off, than a couple having sex?

Protection of children begins in the home imo Woofer.  We can't protect our children from what they see, that would be impossible unless we chaperoned them 24/7, but we can prepare them for what they will encounter in the big bad world.

Yes, agree with you there and a couple of your other points, but as you know there is `sex` and `sordid sex`.
Whilst I`m against banning, I just see a slippery slope of what has become acceptable sliding into the gutter - it has gone from smutty mags and page 3 girls into the sewers of anything goes and before too long violent and sordid sex and who knows even bestiality and the most graphic violence will become acceptable.  I realise it is all out there, somewhere, but the more prolific it becomes, the more desensitised people become. If its like this now, imagine what it will be like in say 10 or 20 years.
These are the very same arguments that have been used for centuries.  In the 1930's, it was predicted that we were all going to hell in a handcart if a male and a female were seen on a bed together, enter Will Hays and censorship. 

I remember one of my old lecturers pointing out that if he had sex with a chicken in front of the class we would be outraged, yet if he broke its neck, it would be acceptable.  Its all a question of aesthetics.  What is good and bad taste?

Errm, it would be bestiality and the one action would be short and painful and the other one would get the RSPA out as it would be torture of animal.

As for your earlier definition of porn as a bloke with a dodgy noustache (can't quite picture that, dodgy guy, yes) who 's come to fix the plumbing or whatever, I love it!

But it is not what we are talking about, that's soft porn of which some  thirty years ago I have seen an example in an Anne Summers shop where you could watch a modern version of 'What the butler saw' .
It featured a dodgy bloke, a sort of Noel Coward type  in a silk dressing gown. I found it hilarious and not at all exciting in the way it was meant to be.
Soft porn like that is not a real problem. Thousands of years old in fact, Etruscan depictions and some of the Greek and. Roman are soft porn if you like. Even those huge 17th C paintings of a naked Andromeda chained to the rocks, St. Sebastian pierced with arrows would count as soft porn.
Anything that even simulates rape / children gets into the hard porn area imo and of course you've never seen a snuff movie, but any policeman will assure there are plenty of them.  They earn the makers and distributors lots of money.

Btw it's the Kama Sutra, not the Karma - although I do hope that Karma will come in spades to those who produce hard porn. winkwink
Touche Tigger, lol, though I am pretty sure those Etruscans, Greeks and Romans, had something 'harder' out the back.....

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Re: Leon Brittan urged to comment on paedophile dossier

Post by Guest on 04.07.14 13:12

@Cristobell wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:Sex with a chicken is definitely bad taste.

Did the chicken consent?

Lol, it was a hypothetical situation BlueBag, but one that led to an interesting and somewhat hilarious discussion about aesthetics.  A number of people were protesting on behalf of the chicken and there were a few impressions  big grin

It sounds more interesting than debating the age old question of why the chicken crossed the road.

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Re: Leon Brittan urged to comment on paedophile dossier

Post by ultimaThule on 04.07.14 13:23

Can we rule out the possibility of the chicken crossing the road to be stuffed have it's neck wrung by Cristobell's teacher, NFWTD?

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Re: Leon Brittan urged to comment on paedophile dossier

Post by Garrincha on 04.07.14 14:06

A duck was about to cross the road when a chicken looked at him and said "Don't do it man…….you’ll never hear the end of it".

ETA: It was a big chicken

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Re: Leon Brittan urged to comment on paedophile dossier

Post by Woofer on 04.07.14 23:26


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Re: Leon Brittan urged to comment on paedophile dossier

Post by ultimaThule on 05.07.14 0:37

You did well to start this thead, Woofer.  Is that the sound of chickens coming home to roost I hear?

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Can this cat be put back into the bag ?

Post by PeterMac on 05.07.14 7:47

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10947561/More-than-10-politicians-on-list-held-by-police-investigating-Westminster-paedophile-ring.html
More than 10 current and former politicians are on a list of alleged child abusers held by police investigating claims of a Westminster paedophile ring.
MPs or peers from all three main political parties are on the list, which includes former ministers and household names.
Several, including Cyril Smith and Sir Peter Morrison, are no longer alive, but others are still active in Parliament.
The existence of the list was disclosed by Peter McKelvie, the whistleblower whose claims prompted Operation Fernbridge, the Scotland Yard investigation into allegations of a paedophile network with links to Downing Street.
Mr McKelvie, a retired child protection team manager who has spent more than 20 years compiling evidence of alleged abuse by authority figures, said he believed there was enough evidence to arrest at least one senior politician.
It comes as David Cameron ordered the most senior civil servant at the Home Office to conduct a fresh investigation into what happened to a missing dossier on alleged paedophiles in Westminster in the 1980s.
The Prime Minister told Mark Sedwill, the Permanent Secretary at the Home Office, to “do everything he can” to clear up what happened to the file, which was handed to the then home secretary Leon (now Lord) Brittan by the late Geoffrey Dickens MP.
Separately Theresa May, the Home Secretary, said yesterday she would “examine the case” for a public inquiry into historical child abuse in public life, for which 139 MPs have now called.
Mr McKelvie, who helped bring the notorious paedophile Peter Righton to justice in 1992 when he worked in Hereford and Worcester child protection team, said: “I believe there are sufficient grounds to carry out a formal investigation into allegations of up to 20 MPs and Lords over the last three to four decades, some still alive and some dead. The list is there.”
In a letter to his local MP Sir Tony Baldry last month, Mr McKelvie suggested that a further 20 MPs and Lords were implicated in the “cover-up” of abuse of children.

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Re: Leon Brittan urged to comment on paedophile dossier

Post by Guest on 05.07.14 21:54


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Re: Leon Brittan urged to comment on paedophile dossier

Post by ChippyM on 06.07.14 12:19

So Britton is to be questioned over the assault of an adult female. I wonder if they will get round to asking him about whether he visited the Elm Guesthouse and what went on there?

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Re: Leon Brittan urged to comment on paedophile dossier

Post by ultimaThule on 06.07.14 12:20

At very long last the house of cards, or should that be 'houses of cads'?, is toppling and I have no doubt there will be more 'revelation moments' to come: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2681909/Leon-Brittan-quizzed-teen-rape-claim-Ex-Home-Secretary-accused-attacking-student-flat.html

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Re: Leon Brittan urged to comment on paedophile dossier

Post by Guest on 07.07.14 12:27

Brittan says historical rape claim 'wholly unfounded'

Lord Brittan has said an historical allegation of rape against him is "wholly without foundation".
The former home secretary confirmed he had been questioned by police about a "serious allegation made against me".
The Independent on Sunday said Lord Brittan was understood to have been questioned last month about the claim, which relates to an incident in London in 1967.
Lord Brittan, 74, was not an MP at the time of the alleged rape.
In a statement, the Conservative peer said: "It is true that I have been questioned by the police about a serious allegation made against me. This allegation is wholly without foundation."
Inquiries continue
Scotland Yard said that in late 2012 a woman claimed to police that she was raped by a man at an address in the capital. It said the woman was over 18 at the time of the incident.
Police added that a man in his 70s was interviewed under caution, by appointment, at a central London location last month. He was not arrested and inquiries continue.
Lord Brittan was home secretary in Margaret Thatcher's Conservative government from 1983 to 1985.
Lord Brittan, who was first elected as an MP in 1974, later became Trade and Industry Secretary. He stood down from the Commons when he became a European commissioner in 1989.
Downing Street sources have said they did not know about the questioning.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28194481

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Re: Leon Brittan urged to comment on paedophile dossier

Post by Woofer on 07.07.14 13:13

As Mandy Rice-Davies said `Well he would say that wouldn`t he`   big grin

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Re: Leon Brittan urged to comment on paedophile dossier

Post by ultimaThule on 08.07.14 0:09

candyfloss wrote:Brittan says historical rape claim 'wholly unfounded'

Lord Brittan has said an historical allegation of rape against him is "wholly without foundation".
The former home secretary confirmed he had been questioned by police about a "serious allegation made against me".
The Independent on Sunday said Lord Brittan was understood to have been questioned last month about the claim, which relates to an incident in London in 1967.
Lord Brittan, 74, was not an MP at the time of the alleged rape.
In a statement, the Conservative peer said: "It is true that I have been questioned by the police about a serious allegation made against me. This allegation is wholly without foundation."
Inquiries continue
Scotland Yard said that in late 2012 a woman claimed to police that she was raped by a man at an address in the capital. It said the woman was over 18 at the time of the incident.
Police added that a man in his 70s was interviewed under caution, by appointment, at a central London location last month. He was not arrested and inquiries continue.
Lord Brittan was home secretary in Margaret Thatcher's Conservative government from 1983 to 1985.
Lord Brittan, who was first elected as an MP in 1974, later became Trade and Industry Secretary. He stood down from the Commons when he became a European commissioner in 1989.
Downing Street sources have said they did not know about the questioning.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28194481

As he was not arrested before being interviewed under caution by prior appointment the man in question would have been told by the police that he was free to leave at any time, but if the 'central London location' was the Ritz he may have chosen to sit it out until he'd finished his post-luncheon brandy.

Eta Brittan is sporting one of the world's worst comb-overs.  Perhaps a doctor somewhere will consider donating a portion of his neck beard to aid a lord of the realm who is in urgent need of a transplant?

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Wholly without foundation?

Post by missbeetle on 08.07.14 5:07

"

This man looks - to me - to be no stranger to tinted moisturiser, or perhaps even a touch of Pan Stik.

Please, ultima Thule, for my sake - do not appeal to Gerry's charitable nature, and ask him to donate even part of his neck beard.

It's the only aspect of him I find remotely attractive.

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Re: Leon Brittan urged to comment on paedophile dossier

Post by jozi on 09.07.14 14:43

@Cristobell wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:Sex with a chicken is definitely bad taste.

Did the chicken consent?

Lol, it was a hypothetical situation BlueBag, but one that led to an interesting and somewhat hilarious discussion about aesthetics.  A number of people were protesting on behalf of the chicken and there were a few impressions  big grin
Hey do not laugh it happens here, one was sentenced the other day for having sex with a chicken ????? The chicken had to be put down as its insides were ruptured (ouch) !!!!!!!!!!!!!

jozi

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Re: Leon Brittan urged to comment on paedophile dossier

Post by aquila on 10.07.14 9:27

What does a posting of photographs of K&G have to do with this thread?

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