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Why the McCanns' appearance yesterday was a PR disaster for them

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Re: Why the McCanns' appearance yesterday was a PR disaster for them

Post by Woofer on 18.06.14 22:33

@ Missmarl1 - "What keeps cropping up in my mind is the story I read somewhere ( cant remember exact story and dont know if it was true either ) way back, that Gerry's sister Jackie doesn't seem to have any contact with them and was possibly the one who supposedly implied that the Mccann's had been talking about placing Madeleine with a relative before that fateful holiday ? "

There`s this :-
http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4663p10-was-this-paper-ever-sued

there may be other threads mentioning her.

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Re: Why the McCanns' appearance yesterday was a PR disaster for them

Post by Ochosi on 18.06.14 22:58

@eileenb wrote:Does noone here worry about getting sued by the McCann Two

Can't speak for anyone else re worry, but I'd say most people don't say anything libellous - they simply express a personal viewpoint.

That said, I imagine some opinions expressed here could possibly be viewed as exacerbating the McCanns' anguish, causing them unnecessary grief, pain and distress and a blatant and cynical attempt to wear them down - but I'm not sure there's a clear cut suing umbrella for that.

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Re: Why the McCanns' appearance yesterday was a PR disaster for them

Post by eileenb on 18.06.14 23:05

Re the church ..seems a great pity that has never been searched and looks it will stay that way...

Re the suing...even if I had ever felt a degree of pity for Kate....not now...not after the endless hounding of people such as Amaral...he has a family too..they do not have one ounce of pity for anyone other than themselves...they disgust me even just to look at them now.  A columnist in the DM wrote something about the grief etched on Kate's face...I thought to myself well she will soon cheer up once she gets her hands on the loot...I thought she looked a bit deranged actually more than grief stricken...

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Re: Why the McCanns' appearance yesterday was a PR disaster for them

Post by lj on 19.06.14 0:19

@canada12 wrote:One thing I wondered about the McCanns press conference on the courthouse steps - wouldn't they have been in touch by phone with CM beforehand, in order to get their ducks in a row and get hints about what to say? You'd have thought so.

However, here's my thinking. IF they were put in a panic situation by GA (which I believe was the intent all along), then IMO their first thoughts would have been to try and contact CM for his input on how to handle it for the assembled media. I'm thinking that CM was not available for advice - otherwise I'm sure he'd have counselled against them doing or saying anything that would show them in a bad light. I agree with whoever it was suggested that the best thing they could have done was issue a brief statement regarding the delay, and then just leave it at that.

But they didn't do that - they felt the need to grandstand. So, either they were given poor advice by CM, or they were given the correct advice by CM and chose to ignore him, or they weren't able to get in touch with him and were left hanging out to dry on their own.

And if they did get in touch with him... was it by mobile phone?
And was their mobile being monitored by PJ / SY?

Just some thoughts.


I doubt they called Clarrie. If you read Kate's book you see many, MANY examples of things she should not have written. I think Kate has a big problem taking advice. Plus she never liked Clarrie much. My bet: they did not call anyone, and did not listen to Isabel either. It was one of those things they are responsible for, they alone.

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Re: Why the McCanns' appearance yesterday was a PR disaster for them

Post by lj on 19.06.14 0:20

Poe wrote:
@Miraflores wrote:They could also have been advised by Isobel Duarte to keep quiet, but having spent an hour and a half outside the courtroom getting hotter and hotter and crosser and crosser, just couldn't help themselves.

Yep.

With their inflated sense of self-importance, the enforced wait and it being too 'ot, the McCanns were wound up like those little clockwork bombs in Super Mario.

Very much like that!!

 laughat

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Re: Why the McCanns' appearance yesterday was a PR disaster for them

Post by lj on 19.06.14 0:35

@Mirage wrote:
@canada12 wrote:
@Mirage wrote:Very interesting thoughts, Canada12.

 I am wondering if the pair left Pt that day. If reports can be believed the next step of the investigation is to be the interview of 3 suspects by the PJ with SY sitting in. I read somewhere that not all the SY team flew home.

That scenario does not accord with a pre-emptive strike by GA however.

I too wonder if they left Portugal immediately. You'd have thought the press might have been waiting for them at the airports  to grab photos and perhaps further comments - or even waiting in Rothley to snap pictures of their homecoming? We haven't seen anything in the papers about their arrival home.

I think the pre-emptive strike by GA might have been very useful if Kate and Gerry had, shortly thereafter, been invited to a police station for a conversation. They'd have been taken totally unawares, and on top of that, they'd have been extremely rattled. No advance prep and no prepared answers for tough questions.

IMO.

Yes Canada12. The pre-emptive strike by GA might well have served that purpose. Given that he is no longer an investigating officer that strategy could therefore be publicly construed as personal to him and completely divorced from the police process. 

I am not convinced that the pair have left Portugal. I also think they were as shaken and stirred as I have ever seen them. Maybe their schedule for the day was to wrap up the statements in court then, by invitation, attend the PJ in Lisbon for an update.

I am further not convinced AR and top officers came home. Yet, that must be squared with the GA accusation that British police hid evidence. However, there are British police AND British police. Namely, the MET and Leicester.

GA delivered a letter to the court. Did it contain anything other than the notification of dropping the lawyer? The reason for dropping the lawyer was given in arcane language which I am unable to fully understand. However, as a layperson I thought it sounded as if the lawyer was impeded in some way in his representational role. Could this be because events have taken a sudden turn?

IMO when are the police ever going to get to interview this couple if they don't practice a bit of carpe diem while they are together on Portuguese soil? How many more opportunities might the PJ be willing to give the Mcs to turn down all invitations to help the police with their enquiries after seven long years?


Hi Mirage, where did you see anything more about the firing of the lawyer? I am still at a loss. Today Dr. Amaral's website sent an email which very shortly mentioned what happened, no explanation.  What puzzles me too (now that is) is Friday they also send an email with what looks like a press release that the proceedings would start again on Monday. That email had a photo of Dr. Amaral with his lawyer!

And then Dr. Amaral changes the picture for the eagle soaring above the waves: would that be the picture of a creature breaking free?

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"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?"  Gerry

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: Why the McCanns' appearance yesterday was a PR disaster for them

Post by Ollie on 19.06.14 0:45

I agree lj that they never called CM. We know how the McCanns love the camera and telling anyone who will listen that they are the victims - Madeleine is being cared for by a lovely family/paedophile/childless couple.

They thought they would be standing in front of the cameras telling the world how everyone in the court was reduced to tears listening to Gerrys statement from the heart, but Goncalo Amaral threw a huge spanner in the works. It was fun to watch the McCanns furious that they hadn't got their way. They weren't going to be celebrating in a 5* hotel that night, certain that they had the £1m+ in the bag.


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Not a chance

Post by hustling0109 on 19.06.14 1:59

If anyone thinks all the digging and this libel case is just a ruse to trip up the mcanns and there close to being arrested are badly mistaken. I think its just a matter of getting this libel out the way and then allow sy/pj to question the alleged men and i think the police will eliminate them THEN like an english office said 'we want to go back to kate and jerry and say we did everything we could but we cant solve the case' or something like that and they WILL close the case unless groundbreaking evidence comes out then its game on.

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Re: Why the McCanns' appearance yesterday was a PR disaster for them

Post by ultimaThule on 19.06.14 14:10

@hustling0109 wrote:If anyone thinks all the digging and this libel case is just a ruse to trip up the mcanns and there close to being arrested are badly ' mistaken. I think its just a matter of getting this libel out the way and then allow sy/pj to question the alleged men and i think the police will eliminate them THEN like an english office said 'we want to go back to kate and jerry and say we did everything we could but we cant solve the case or something like that and they WILL close the case unless groundbreaking evidence comes out then its game on.

 welcome husting.  

Can you please provide a link to what you claim an 'english officer' has said (above)?

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Re: Why the McCanns' appearance yesterday was a PR disaster for them

Post by ultimaThule on 19.06.14 14:25

@Ollie wrote:I agree lj that they never called CM. We know how the McCanns love the camera and telling anyone who will listen that they are the victims - Madeleine is being cared for by a lovely family/paedophile/childless couple.

They thought they would be standing in front of the cameras telling the world how everyone in the court was reduced to tears listening to Gerrys statement from the heart,  but Goncalo Amaral threw a huge spanner in the works. It was fun to watch the McCanns furious that they hadn't got their way. They weren't going to be celebrating in a 5* hotel that night, certain that they had the £1m+ in the bag.

I very much doubt that the McCanns feel able to celebrate anything when they are in Portugal as they will be in a constant state of fear that at any time they may feel the proverbial hand on the shoulder and hear the words 'you're nicked', or the Portuguese equivalent thereof, Ollie, and I suspect this fear was in part, if not in whole, responsible for them holding their most informative press conference about the libel trial to date.   yes

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Re: Why the McCanns' appearance yesterday was a PR disaster for them

Post by Mirage on 19.06.14 15:07

@lj wrote:
@Mirage wrote:
@canada12 wrote:
@Mirage wrote:Very interesting thoughts, Canada12.

 I am wondering if the pair left Pt that day. If reports can be believed the next step of the investigation is to be the interview of 3 suspects by the PJ with SY sitting in. I read somewhere that not all the SY team flew home.

That scenario does not accord with a pre-emptive strike by GA however.

I too wonder if they left Portugal immediately. You'd have thought the press might have been waiting for them at the airports  to grab photos and perhaps further comments - or even waiting in Rothley to snap pictures of their homecoming? We haven't seen anything in the papers about their arrival home.

I think the pre-emptive strike by GA might have been very useful if Kate and Gerry had, shortly thereafter, been invited to a police station for a conversation. They'd have been taken totally unawares, and on top of that, they'd have been extremely rattled. No advance prep and no prepared answers for tough questions.

IMO.

Yes Canada12. The pre-emptive strike by GA might well have served that purpose. Given that he is no longer an investigating officer that strategy could therefore be publicly construed as personal to him and completely divorced from the police process. 

I am not convinced that the pair have left Portugal. I also think they were as shaken and stirred as I have ever seen them. Maybe their schedule for the day was to wrap up the statements in court then, by invitation, attend the PJ in Lisbon for an update.

I am further not convinced AR and top officers came home. Yet, that must be squared with the GA accusation that British police hid evidence. However, there are British police AND British police. Namely, the MET and Leicester.

GA delivered a letter to the court. Did it contain anything other than the notification of dropping the lawyer? The reason for dropping the lawyer was given in arcane language which I am unable to fully understand. However, as a layperson I thought it sounded as if the lawyer was impeded in some way in his representational role. Could this be because events have taken a sudden turn?

IMO when are the police ever going to get to interview this couple if they don't practice a bit of carpe diem while they are together on Portuguese soil? How many more opportunities might the PJ be willing to give the Mcs to turn down all invitations to help the police with their enquiries after seven long years?


Hi Mirage, where did you see anything more about the firing of the lawyer? I am still at a loss. Today Dr. Amaral's website sent an email which very shortly mentioned what happened, no explanation.  What puzzles me too (now that is) is Friday they also send an email with what looks like a press release that the proceedings would start again on Monday. That email had a photo of Dr. Amaral with his lawyer!

And then Dr. Amaral changes the picture for the eagle soaring above the waves: would that be the picture of a creature breaking free?

Hi Ij. I don't know any more than that the letter was delivered. The  inference being that therein was contained the notification about dropping his lawyer.  I just wondered if there was anything else in that letter, the pair of them looked so stirred and shaken on the steps afterwards.  I simply thought he might have been required to give a verbal explanation re sacking his lawyer, but perhaps the protocol demands it has to be done in writing. I was just wondering out loud really.

 I'm taking the day off now because my head is spinning. I feel it has become a very tense situation and I have a sense that something is about to give. What exactly, I don't know.

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Re: Why the McCanns' appearance yesterday was a PR disaster for them

Post by lj on 19.06.14 15:54

@Mirage wrote:
@lj wrote:
@Mirage wrote:
@canada12 wrote:
@Mirage wrote:Very interesting thoughts, Canada12.

 I am wondering if the pair left Pt that day. If reports can be believed the next step of the investigation is to be the interview of 3 suspects by the PJ with SY sitting in. I read somewhere that not all the SY team flew home.

That scenario does not accord with a pre-emptive strike by GA however.

I too wonder if they left Portugal immediately. You'd have thought the press might have been waiting for them at the airports  to grab photos and perhaps further comments - or even waiting in Rothley to snap pictures of their homecoming? We haven't seen anything in the papers about their arrival home.

I think the pre-emptive strike by GA might have been very useful if Kate and Gerry had, shortly thereafter, been invited to a police station for a conversation. They'd have been taken totally unawares, and on top of that, they'd have been extremely rattled. No advance prep and no prepared answers for tough questions.

IMO.

Yes Canada12. The pre-emptive strike by GA might well have served that purpose. Given that he is no longer an investigating officer that strategy could therefore be publicly construed as personal to him and completely divorced from the police process. 

I am not convinced that the pair have left Portugal. I also think they were as shaken and stirred as I have ever seen them. Maybe their schedule for the day was to wrap up the statements in court then, by invitation, attend the PJ in Lisbon for an update.

I am further not convinced AR and top officers came home. Yet, that must be squared with the GA accusation that British police hid evidence. However, there are British police AND British police. Namely, the MET and Leicester.

GA delivered a letter to the court. Did it contain anything other than the notification of dropping the lawyer? The reason for dropping the lawyer was given in arcane language which I am unable to fully understand. However, as a layperson I thought it sounded as if the lawyer was impeded in some way in his representational role. Could this be because events have taken a sudden turn?

IMO when are the police ever going to get to interview this couple if they don't practice a bit of carpe diem while they are together on Portuguese soil? How many more opportunities might the PJ be willing to give the Mcs to turn down all invitations to help the police with their enquiries after seven long years?


Hi Mirage, where did you see anything more about the firing of the lawyer? I am still at a loss. Today Dr. Amaral's website sent an email which very shortly mentioned what happened, no explanation.  What puzzles me too (now that is) is Friday they also send an email with what looks like a press release that the proceedings would start again on Monday. That email had a photo of Dr. Amaral with his lawyer!

And then Dr. Amaral changes the picture for the eagle soaring above the waves: would that be the picture of a creature breaking free?

Hi Ij. I don't know any more than that the letter was delivered. The  inference being that therein was contained the notification about dropping his lawyer.  I just wondered if there was anything else in that letter, the pair of them looked so stirred and shaken on the steps afterwards.  I simply thought he might have been required to give a verbal explanation re sacking his lawyer, but perhaps the protocol demands it has to be done in writing. I was just wondering out loud really.

 I'm taking the day off now because my head is spinning. I feel it has become a very tense situation and I have a sense that something is about to give. What exactly, I don't know.


Please give your head a rest, we need cool heads like you.

There must be something going on, at least with Dr. Amaral. I doubt there will be a big case breaker. 

Take care Mirage, see you back soon!

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"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?"  Gerry

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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Ohh all seems to have gone quiet not a peep , I truly hope Goncalo is allowed to have his say in court , and Hopefully all goes in his Favour IMO he is the one that has had all the upset.He truthfully wants justice for Madeleine as we all do...

Post by Marcha on 20.06.14 19:51

Please give your head a rest, we need cool heads like you.

There must be something going on, at least with Dr. Amaral. I doubt there will be a big case breaker. 

Take care Mirage, see you back soon!

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Re: Why the McCanns' appearance yesterday was a PR disaster for them

Post by worriedmum on 20.06.14 21:05

If you say something in a court of law in Portugal, are you protected from prosecution?

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Re: Why the McCanns' appearance yesterday was a PR disaster for them

Post by Mirage on 20.06.14 21:10

@worriedmum wrote:If you say something in a court of law in Portugal, are you protected from prosecution?

Why? Are you thinking of going?   big grin  big grin  big grin

Eta: Thanks Ij

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Re: Why the McCanns' appearance yesterday was a PR disaster for them

Post by worriedmum on 20.06.14 21:18

Not voluntarily Mirage!

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Re: Why the McCanns' appearance yesterday was a PR disaster for them

Post by ultimaThule on 20.06.14 21:29

@worriedmum wrote:If you say something in a court of law in Portugal, are you protected from prosecution?

Is this wishful thinking on your part, wm?  smilie 

If you say anything in any court of law which incriminates you in a crime for which you have not been indicted or have been granted immunity, you are not protected from prosecution.

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Re: Why the McCanns' appearance yesterday was a PR disaster for them

Post by worriedmum on 20.06.14 21:57

So if, say a policeman made a statement , he could be sued for libel?

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Re: Why the McCanns' appearance yesterday was a PR disaster for them

Post by ultimaThule on 20.06.14 22:35

@worriedmum wrote:So if, say a policeman made a statement , he could be sued for libel?

Not necessarily.   Is the policeman a serving officer giving sworn testimony in a criminal case or or testiyfing in a personal capacity in a civil case, or vice versa?

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Re: Why the McCanns' appearance yesterday was a PR disaster for them

Post by worriedmum on 20.06.14 22:40

@ultimaThule wrote:
@worriedmum wrote:So if, say a policeman made a statement , he could be sued for libel?

Not necessarily.   Is the policeman a serving officer giving sworn testimony in a criminal case or or testiyfing in a personal capacity in a civil case, or vice versa?
Hypothetically the second scenario....

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Re: Why the McCanns' appearance yesterday was a PR disaster for them

Post by ultimaThule on 20.06.14 23:49

@worriedmum wrote:
@ultimaThule wrote:
@worriedmum wrote:So if, say a policeman made a statement , he could be sued for libel?

Not necessarily.   Is the policeman a serving officer giving sworn testimony in a criminal case or or testiyfing in a personal capacity in a civil case, or vice versa?
Hypothetically the second scenario....

If he is telling the truth and/or stating his honest opinion he will have a defence to a claim of defamation. This extract from the Defamation Act 2013 deals with 'Honest Opinion':

(1) It is a defence to an action for defamation for the defendant to show that the following conditions are met.

(2) The first condition is that the statement complained of was a statement of opinion.

(3) The second condition is that the statement complained of indicated, whether in general or specific terms, the basis of the opinion.

(4) The third condition is that an honest person could have held the opinion on the basis of—

(a) any fact which existed at the time the statement complained of was published;

(b )anything asserted to be a fact in a privileged statement published before the statement complained of.

(5) The defence is defeated if the claimant shows that the defendant did not hold the opinion.

(6) Subsection (5) does not apply in a case where the statement complained of was published by the defendant but made by another person (“the author”); and in such a case the defence is defeated if the claimant shows that the defendant knew or ought to have known that the author did not hold the opinion.

(7) For the purposes of subsection (4) (b) a statement is a “privileged statement” if the person responsible for its publication would have one or more of the following defences if an action for defamation were brought in respect of it—

(a) a defence under section 4 (publication on matter of public interest);

(b) a defence under section 6 (peer-reviewed statement in scientific or academic journal);

(c) a defence under section 14 of the Defamation Act 1996 (reports of court proceedings protected by absolute privilege);

(d) a defence under section 15 of that Act (other reports protected by qualified privilege).

(8) The common law defence of fair comment is abolished and, accordingly, section 6 of the Defamation Act 1952 (fair comment) is repealed.

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Re: Why the McCanns' appearance yesterday was a PR disaster for them

Post by worriedmum on 21.06.14 11:45

Whew! Thanks UT!   roses

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Case closed.

Post by hustling0109 on 21.06.14 18:47

The case will be closed in a few months time, you watch.

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Re: Why the McCanns' appearance yesterday was a PR disaster for them

Post by ultimaThule on 21.06.14 21:19

Which case are you referring to, husting?

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Re: Why the McCanns' appearance yesterday was a PR disaster for them

Post by Cordelia on 22.06.14 11:10

@ultimaThule wrote:Which case are you referring to, husting?


One point no-one has mentioned so far, Kate saying outside the Courthouse how upsetting it was to come to Portugal , yet  tells us previously that she has made a few trips to Portugal on her own not only to visit the Hubbards, but to be near Madeleine. 

I think the McCanns will be hard pressed to  prove the following:-

1. That Amaral's Book hindered their search for her.........they still employed the likes of Halligen and the two retired Detectives , say no more. Rolling Eyes 

2, That Madeleine died in the Apartment, the Portugese Police suggested that in their final Report

3. The Book upset the twins.......it was written in Portugese?

4. Have the McCanns produced any evidence from Doctors that they suffered ill health from Amaral's Book, did they obtain Letters from their Doctors at     the time which will be produced in Court.?

I still don't understand why Amaral "sacked" his Lawyers, if it was a question of money , that was the closing Statement so surely the Lawyers would have agreed to wait for the Verdict???  If Amaral  arranged the cancellation to unsettle the McCanns, I do not agree with his tactics.

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