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Libel Trial Postponement: The Truth about the McCanns' Lie - by Nigel Moore.

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Re: Libel Trial Postponement: The Truth about the McCanns' Lie - by Nigel Moore.

Post by lj on 18.06.14 16:06

@tasprin wrote:A very good, straightforward report from the Portugal Resident


McCanns “day in court” collapses in disarray

Portugalpress on June 18, 2014

By NATASHA DONN

It was meant to be their “day in court”, according to the BBC, but Kate and Gerry McCann - pursuing a long-running civil action for defamation against the former detective who led the original hunt for their missing daughter - were out of luck. Half an hour before they turned up to testify at Lisbon’s 1º Vara do Tribunal Cível, the man they are demanding €1.2 million in damages from slipped in unnoticed and presented a document revoking the mandate of his lawyer. Gonçalo Amaral is playing his cards characteristically close to his chest - not even talking to the press about his motivation for sacking lawyer Vítor Santos Oliveira.

This was the fourth time the case opened in 2009 has been stopped in its tracks, but only the first time the cause has come directly from Amaral  .

Previously, hearings were adjourned due to illness of Santos’ son, a break-in at the judge’s home and a legal technicality.

Nonetheless, the McCanns expressed their “utter frustration” on the steps of the court, calling the latest hitch a “blatant and cynical attempt” to wear them down.

Kate McCann said: “Every time we come here, we have to make arrangements for our children to be looked after.“ Every time he postpones the case like this, it brings us more pain and distress.”  

Quizzed over whether she had any sympathy for Amaral’s personal plight - he has had his bank accounts frozen since the McCanns opened their civil case against him - Mrs McCann said: “Mr Amaral is not the victim in this.”

The hearing has now been adjourned until July 8, with closing arguments scheduled for July 10. Sky News reporter Robert Nesbitt explained that despite this week’s delay, the judge’s final decision was always expected to take “a few weeks”. Now, due to the statutory legal holiday in August, it is unlikely that her decision will come before September.

The case hinges on the McCanns’ contention that Dr Amaral’s book, ‘Maddie: The Truth of the Lie’, defames them.

As many are already aware, the book centres on Amaral’s theory that Madeleine died in apartment 5a on that fateful family holiday in Praia da Luz seven years ago, and her body was disposed of. The McCanns vehemently deny this, and say the theory has caused them pain and distress.

They also claim it has hampered the search for Madeleine, which has to date cost millions of euros and involved the police forces of two countries. It has undoubtedly been the most high-profile missing person’s case of all time, with stories relating to possible suspects constantly appearing in the media.

A massive eight-day ground search coordinated by the Metropolitan police in Praia da Luz earlier this month is reported to have cost an estimated £50,000 a day despite having found “no significant clues” as to what happened to the three year old. British police are now understood to be keen to interview eight people of interest, including three suspected drug dealers. PJ police are understood to be considering whether to give the official go ahead to these interviews. By NATASHA DONN news@algarveresident.com
http://portugalresident.com/mccanns-%E2%80%9Cday-in-court%E2%80%9D-collapses-in-disarray


Not a bad article, considering they clearly state it was only the first time it was because of Dr. Amaral the proceedings had to be postponed.  IE if the red part was in the article, is that correct tasprin?  It would have been so nice if any of the reporters had asked: "what were the other 3?"

That's one (only one of the many) reasons why Tony's contributions here are so important: he's a kind of encyclopedia of facts of this case and a stckler for completeness.

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http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: Libel Trial Postponement: The Truth about the McCanns' Lie - by Nigel Moore.

Post by jeanmonroe on 18.06.14 16:10

sonic72

Yeah, he'll have to get a new lawyer up to speed, but at this stage I dont think the final speeches will swing the decision, and the decision will be made on the 'evidence'.
------------------------------------------------------

There will be numerous lawyers 'up to speed' with this case in Portugal.

How couldn't there be? It's been rammed down their throats for SEVEN years!

They will be queuing up at GA's door to 'represent' him.

imo, obviously.

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Re: Libel Trial Postponement: The Truth about the McCanns' Lie - by Nigel Moore.

Post by Upsy Daisy on 18.06.14 17:29

Sorry if this has already been addresses, just scooted to the end...

gerry says 'today is a blatant and cynical attempt to wear us down, we're not going to give up, we'll keep going'...

 yes, you have just admitted it gerry, you are on the brink of being worn down to the point of defeat! Because you are hereby admitting that you are in fact capable of being worn down until the truth comes out. It' s like he just cannot bear to lose at anything. A really bad loser. But now he believes his own lies so much that he is fighting not for Madeleine but for himself, his own ego. more interested in saving his own skin til the bitter end. Madeleine gets a token mention, as usual. They look very exhausted. Kate looks horrendous and has aged very, very much lately.

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Re: Libel Trial Postponement: The Truth about the McCanns' Lie - by Nigel Moore.

Post by Mirage on 18.06.14 17:36

@Upsy Daisy wrote:Sorry if this has already been addresses, just scooted to the end...

gerry says 'today is a blatant and cynical attempt to wear us down, we're not going to give up, we'll keep going'...

 yes, you have just admitted it gerry, you are on the brink of being worn down to the point of defeat! Because you are hereby admitting that you are in fact capable of being worn down until the truth comes out. It' s like he just cannot bear to lose at anything. A really bad loser. But now he believes his own lies so much that he is fighting not for Madeleine but for himself, his own ego. more interested in saving his own skin til the bitter end. Madeleine gets a token mention, as usual. They look very exhausted. Kate looks horrendous and has aged very, very much lately.
I totally agree. They are being worn down. 

Has anyone seen confirmation they returned to these shores? I find it hard to believe they landed without a microphone or camera in sight.

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Re: Libel Trial Postponement: The Truth about the McCanns' Lie - by Nigel Moore.

Post by tasprin on 18.06.14 17:36

@lj wrote:
@tasprin wrote:A very good, straightforward report from the Portugal Resident


McCanns “day in court” collapses in disarray

Portugalpress on June 18, 2014

By NATASHA DONN

It was meant to be their “day in court”, according to the BBC, but Kate and Gerry McCann - pursuing a long-running civil action for defamation against the former detective who led the original hunt for their missing daughter - were out of luck. Half an hour before they turned up to testify at Lisbon’s 1º Vara do Tribunal Cível, the man they are demanding €1.2 million in damages from slipped in unnoticed and presented a document revoking the mandate of his lawyer. Gonçalo Amaral is playing his cards characteristically close to his chest - not even talking to the press about his motivation for sacking lawyer Vítor Santos Oliveira.

This was the fourth time the case opened in 2009 has been stopped in its tracks, but only the first time the cause has come directly from Amaral  .

Previously, hearings were adjourned due to illness of Santos’ son, a break-in at the judge’s home and a legal technicality.

Nonetheless, the McCanns expressed their “utter frustration” on the steps of the court, calling the latest hitch a “blatant and cynical attempt” to wear them down.

Kate McCann said: “Every time we come here, we have to make arrangements for our children to be looked after.“ Every time he postpones the case like this, it brings us more pain and distress.”  

Quizzed over whether she had any sympathy for Amaral’s personal plight - he has had his bank accounts frozen since the McCanns opened their civil case against him - Mrs McCann said: “Mr Amaral is not the victim in this.”

The hearing has now been adjourned until July 8, with closing arguments scheduled for July 10. Sky News reporter Robert Nesbitt explained that despite this week’s delay, the judge’s final decision was always expected to take “a few weeks”. Now, due to the statutory legal holiday in August, it is unlikely that her decision will come before September.

The case hinges on the McCanns’ contention that Dr Amaral’s book, ‘Maddie: The Truth of the Lie’, defames them.

As many are already aware, the book centres on Amaral’s theory that Madeleine died in apartment 5a on that fateful family holiday in Praia da Luz seven years ago, and her body was disposed of. The McCanns vehemently deny this, and say the theory has caused them pain and distress.

They also claim it has hampered the search for Madeleine, which has to date cost millions of euros and involved the police forces of two countries. It has undoubtedly been the most high-profile missing person’s case of all time, with stories relating to possible suspects constantly appearing in the media.

A massive eight-day ground search coordinated by the Metropolitan police in Praia da Luz earlier this month is reported to have cost an estimated £50,000 a day despite having found “no significant clues” as to what happened to the three year old. British police are now understood to be keen to interview eight people of interest, including three suspected drug dealers. PJ police are understood to be considering whether to give the official go ahead to these interviews. By NATASHA DONN news@algarveresident.com
http://portugalresident.com/mccanns-%E2%80%9Cday-in-court%E2%80%9D-collapses-in-disarray


Not a bad article, considering they clearly state it was only the first time it was because of Dr. Amaral the proceedings had to be postponed.  IE if the red part was in the article, is that correct tasprin?  It would have been so nice if any of the reporters had asked: "what were the other 3?"

That's one (only one of the many) reasons why Tony's contributions here are so important: he's a kind of encyclopedia of facts of this case and a stckler for completeness.

lj, it's copied in full as it appears on the Portugal Resident. I've not added anything apart from highlighting. It gives the reasons for the three other postponements as, 'Previously, hearings were adjourned due to illness of Santos’ son, a break-in at the judge’s home and a legal technicality"

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Re: Libel Trial Postponement: The Truth about the McCanns' Lie - by Nigel Moore.

Post by Upsy Daisy on 18.06.14 17:56

Apologies if I have missed it but is there an actual link to the video of this speech outside court or just newspaper reportings? Thanks.

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Re: Libel Trial Postponement: The Truth about the McCanns' Lie - by Nigel Moore.

Post by Ollie on 18.06.14 19:18

Clearly the McCanns children were a hindrance in May 2007 so they were put into the crèche all day then left on their own (allegedly) at night. After the postponement KM whined about having to make childcare arrangements, so they are still a hindrance. Any other parent would of said that they had to leave their children at home, how much they miss them, but not this pair. Their priority is themselves and money...joint first place.

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Re: Libel Trial Postponement: The Truth about the McCanns' Lie - by Nigel Moore.

Post by Upsy Daisy on 18.06.14 20:44

Found it found it found it....thanks .

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Re: Libel Trial Postponement: The Truth about the McCanns' Lie - by Nigel Moore.

Post by missmar1 on 18.06.14 20:50

@PeterMac wrote:
@missmar1 wrote:
Just a thought Cordelia.....wouldn't the Mccann's lawyer have known what papers ( court woc ) the Mccann's would need when they first set out on this libel trial ?     She has had YEARS to prepare for the final stage !   
 If it turns out she didn't know about the need for those papers then, as their lawyer, imo she should have done her homework better.

But we also remember the finest Libel Lawyers in the world, who had also had YEARS to prepare, and had gone to the trouble and expense of preparing a sworn affidavit . .  had NO EVIDENCE to put before the Court of Abduction.

However good the lawyer, however mendacious the spokesman, however hard they may try, they cannot create Facts where there are none.
Hi PeterMac,

Yes, the oh so mighty lawyer firm  - had to admit in court they had no actual evidence of abduction.....  wait for it :

Their clients TOLD them that it was an abduction !

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Re: Libel Trial Postponement: The Truth about the McCanns' Lie - by Nigel Moore.

Post by Seek truth on 19.06.14 6:19

In a way, Amaral has confirmed what we already know. The thing is they're not informing him, he's no longer in the PJ, so how would he know what is going to happen.

The treatment he is getting is appalling.
A policeman does his job right, and then gets told off, so what's the point of doing your job right ?

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Re: Libel Trial Postponement: The Truth about the McCanns' Lie - by Nigel Moore.

Post by Guest on 19.06.14 8:56

@missmar1 wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@missmar1 wrote:
Just a thought Cordelia.....wouldn't the Mccann's lawyer have known what papers ( court woc ) the Mccann's would need when they first set out on this libel trial ?     She has had YEARS to prepare for the final stage !   
 If it turns out she didn't know about the need for those papers then, as their lawyer, imo she should have done her homework better.

But we also remember the finest Libel Lawyers in the world, who had also had YEARS to prepare, and had gone to the trouble and expense of preparing a sworn affidavit . .  had NO EVIDENCE to put before the Court of Abduction.

However good the lawyer, however mendacious the spokesman, however hard they may try, they cannot create Facts where there are none.
Hi PeterMac,

Yes, the oh so mighty lawyer firm  - had to admit in court they had no actual evidence of abduction.....  wait for it :

Their clients TOLD them that it was an abduction !

I have no legal expertise but I would have thought that all lawyers would insist on some kind of full disclosure indemnity.

So, if Isabel Duarte had been told by the McCanns about the woc she would have a legal duty to advise them of the full implications but been instructed by her clients to ignore it. However, if the McCanns failed to informed ID about the woc, she was under no obligation to investigate.

Isabel Duarte may be the best lawyer in the world (possibly not) but she can only follow her clients' instructions and work with the information she is given.

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Re: Libel Trial Postponement: The Truth about the McCanns' Lie - by Nigel Moore.

Post by aiyoyo on 19.06.14 15:52

@missmar1 wrote:
Just a thought Cordelia.....wouldn't the Mccann's lawyer have known what papers ( court woc ) the Mccann's would need when they first set out on this libel trial ?     She has had YEARS to prepare for the final stage !   
 If it turns out she didn't know about the need for those papers then, as their lawyer, imo she should have done her homework better.


It is patently clear (to me anyway) that the Mccanns were not aware they need authorisation.
Else why would they deliberately file on behalf to represent Madeleine knowing false representation is a crime.  I suspect since WOC is an issue unclear to them whether they need permission or not, I'm inclined to think they'd not informed ID about it.  Hence it is not a question of ID not doing her duty; rather it is a question of Mccs themselves being unclear of the limitation or otherwise of the woc.  

They were given 30-days (since two weeks ago I think, off hand I can't remember date of Judge's latest ruling)  to produce the documentation.  This document is useful only if they win the case. Otherwise it will be a worthless piece of paper since the Judge already ruled that in the absence of said documentation then Madeleine as plaintiff will be removed and Madeleine's claims against the defendants will be deemed nullified since the Judge already ruled the McCanns had no authorisation to represent her.

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Re: Libel Trial Postponement: The Truth about the McCanns' Lie - by Nigel Moore.

Post by PeterMac on 19.06.14 16:11

@aiyoyo wrote:
It is patently clear (to me anyway) that the Mccanns were not aware they need authorisation.
Else why would they deliberately file on behalf to represent Madeleine knowing false representation is a crime.  I suspect since WOC is an issue unclear to them whether they need permission or not, I'm inclined to think they'd not informed ID about it.  Hence it is not a question of ID not doing her duty; rather it is a question of Mccs themselves being unclear of the limitation or otherwise of the woc.  
. . .

But all the WoC stuff is in Exhibit KH 1. along with the Leicestershire Police ACC(O)  saying there was no evidence to exonerate them.
Surely ID would have read it, or would she prefer not to, just like the McCanns' "witnesses" who all said they hadn't, even though one actually said it was on sale IN ENGLISH IN ENGLAND
Ons suspects that C-R chose deliberately NOT TO, just in case they discovered something which might have caused them to withdraw - and therefore to lose money
As it happens they were only exposed in the High Court.
It sounds like professional negligence to me.

Do doctors merely accept what you tell them,
Or do they then reach for the stethoscope, and thermometer, and recommend further investigations ?  Bloods, Urine, scans, and even these days "dogs".

Of course they do.
The first few minutes of a consultation merely sets the scene.

That is why I find the C-R answer so risible.   Accurate, legal, but "incredible' in the sense that we are to accept that a highly educated woman did not bother to research the case . . .
As for ID, well I would not lower myself to comment

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Re: Libel Trial Postponement: The Truth about the McCanns' Lie - by Nigel Moore.

Post by aiyoyo on 19.06.14 16:31

I suspect ID had not read KH exhibit I.
Just like Isabel Martorell, she took the case for money and to improve her portfolio, little realising the cesspit awaiting her.
If the Judge were to ask her same question as Judge Tugendhat had asked IM, you can bet the answer will be exactly the same.

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Daily Mail today

Post by Judex on 19.06.14 17:00

"Kate and Gerry McCann rage outside court after trial halted at last minute...."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2658873/Kate-Gerry-McCann-arrive-Lisbon-court-evidence-trial-Portuguese-police-chief-suing-libel.html#ixzz356JG9n00

Scroll down to the comments! Barely a handful in favour of the McC's "pain and distress."

Very few 'pros', but hundreds have 'liked' hostile and condemnatory comments, but politely and  not filled with the screeching hate of the pro-shills.

Whatever may be the complex reasons behind the events of the last couple of weeks, the undeniable result has been to release much previously hidden material into the UK MSM, and to open the eyes of rapidly growing numbers of the British public. IMHO...


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Re: Libel Trial Postponement: The Truth about the McCanns' Lie - by Nigel Moore.

Post by ultimaThule on 20.06.14 1:20

@aiyoyo wrote:
@missmar1 wrote:
Just a thought Cordelia.....wouldn't the Mccann's lawyer have known what papers ( court woc ) the Mccann's would need when they first set out on this libel trial ?     She has had YEARS to prepare for the final stage !  
If it turns out she didn't know about the need for those papers then, as their lawyer, imo she should have done her homework better.


It is patently clear (to me anyway) that the Mccanns were not aware they need authorisation.
Else why would they deliberately file on behalf to represent Madeleine knowing false representation is a crime.  I suspect since WOC is an issue unclear to them whether they need permission or not, I'm inclined to think they'd not informed ID about it.  Hence it is not a question of ID not doing her duty; rather it is a question of Mccs themselves being unclear of the limitation or otherwise of the woc.  

They were given 30-days (since two weeks ago I think, off hand I can't remember date of Judge's latest ruling)  to produce the documentation.  This document is useful only if they win the case. Otherwise it will be a worthless piece of paper since the Judge already ruled that in the absence of said documentation then Madeleine as plaintiff will be removed and Madeleine's claims against the defendants will be deemed nullified since the Judge already ruled the McCanns had no authorisation to represent her.


Without having seen the order for Wardship in the case of MBM, I am assuming that care and control of the minor was given to her parents.  

I find it hard to believe that prior to applying for Wardship in May 2007 and throughout the subsequent proceedings which spanned the best part of a year, the McCanns were at no time informed of the provisions and restrictions inherent in Wardship and, in particular, of the need to obtain the consent of the Court before they took any 'important step in the child's life', aiyoyo.

I also find it hard to believe that the McCanns were unaware that instituting legal proceedings on the Ward's behalf constituted an 'important step' for which the consent of the Court was required.and, if this should be the case, it would seem that their UK lawyers have been exceedingly remiss in not appraising their clients of the full terms of Wardship and how it may impact on any future actions they were minded to take in respect of the Ward.

As there is no equivalent to Ward of Court in the Portuguese justice system, I would not expect its lawyers to be aware of how this status may affect any proceedings instituted in Portugal on behalf of a British minor and in such cases it is, imo, incumbent on the client to disclose all relevant information to their lawyer(s) before decisions are made.  

That said, when the PJ re-opened their investigation in October last year much was made in the Portuguese and British MSM of the McCanns intention to appy for assistente status which would enable them to work alongside the prosecutor and the police.   When this did not come to pass, I reviewed the press reports from that time and found that their Portuguese criminal lawyer had said only that his clients 'may' apply for this status.

When reading the relevant part of the Portuguese Penal Code, I learned that only those parents and guardians who hold full parental responsibility for their child/ren can apply for this status and it seems to me that the probable reason why no more was heard about the McCanns applying to become assistentes is that either they disclosed the Wardship to Mr Alves or he discovered it, and its implication for any such application, for himself.  

With regard to possible 'false representation', I intend to give this matter further consideration and come back to this thread in due course.

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Re: Libel Trial Postponement: The Truth about the McCanns' Lie - by Nigel Moore.

Post by lj on 20.06.14 1:46

@tasprin wrote:
@lj wrote:
@tasprin wrote:A very good, straightforward report from the Portugal Resident


McCanns “day in court” collapses in disarray

Portugalpress on June 18, 2014

By NATASHA DONN

It was meant to be their “day in court”, according to the BBC, but Kate and Gerry McCann - pursuing a long-running civil action for defamation against the former detective who led the original hunt for their missing daughter - were out of luck. Half an hour before they turned up to testify at Lisbon’s 1º Vara do Tribunal Cível, the man they are demanding €1.2 million in damages from slipped in unnoticed and presented a document revoking the mandate of his lawyer. Gonçalo Amaral is playing his cards characteristically close to his chest - not even talking to the press about his motivation for sacking lawyer Vítor Santos Oliveira.

This was the fourth time the case opened in 2009 has been stopped in its tracks, but only the first time the cause has come directly from Amaral  .

Previously, hearings were adjourned due to illness of Santos’ son, a break-in at the judge’s home and a legal technicality.

Nonetheless, the McCanns expressed their “utter frustration” on the steps of the court, calling the latest hitch a “blatant and cynical attempt” to wear them down.

Kate McCann said: “Every time we come here, we have to make arrangements for our children to be looked after.“ Every time he postpones the case like this, it brings us more pain and distress.”  

Quizzed over whether she had any sympathy for Amaral’s personal plight - he has had his bank accounts frozen since the McCanns opened their civil case against him - Mrs McCann said: “Mr Amaral is not the victim in this.”

The hearing has now been adjourned until July 8, with closing arguments scheduled for July 10. Sky News reporter Robert Nesbitt explained that despite this week’s delay, the judge’s final decision was always expected to take “a few weeks”. Now, due to the statutory legal holiday in August, it is unlikely that her decision will come before September.

The case hinges on the McCanns’ contention that Dr Amaral’s book, ‘Maddie: The Truth of the Lie’, defames them.

As many are already aware, the book centres on Amaral’s theory that Madeleine died in apartment 5a on that fateful family holiday in Praia da Luz seven years ago, and her body was disposed of. The McCanns vehemently deny this, and say the theory has caused them pain and distress.

They also claim it has hampered the search for Madeleine, which has to date cost millions of euros and involved the police forces of two countries. It has undoubtedly been the most high-profile missing person’s case of all time, with stories relating to possible suspects constantly appearing in the media.

A massive eight-day ground search coordinated by the Metropolitan police in Praia da Luz earlier this month is reported to have cost an estimated £50,000 a day despite having found “no significant clues” as to what happened to the three year old. British police are now understood to be keen to interview eight people of interest, including three suspected drug dealers. PJ police are understood to be considering whether to give the official go ahead to these interviews. By NATASHA DONN news@algarveresident.com
http://portugalresident.com/mccanns-%E2%80%9Cday-in-court%E2%80%9D-collapses-in-disarray


Not a bad article, considering they clearly state it was only the first time it was because of Dr. Amaral the proceedings had to be postponed.  IE if the red part was in the article, is that correct tasprin?  It would have been so nice if any of the reporters had asked: "what were the other 3?"

That's one (only one of the many) reasons why Tony's contributions here are so important: he's a kind of encyclopedia of facts of this case and a stckler for completeness.

lj, it's copied in full as it appears on the Portugal Resident. I've not added anything apart from highlighting. It gives the reasons for the three other postponements as, 'Previously, hearings were adjourned due to illness of Santos’ son, a break-in at the judge’s home and a legal technicality"


Thanks tasprin.

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http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: Libel Trial Postponement: The Truth about the McCanns' Lie - by Nigel Moore.

Post by lj on 20.06.14 1:53

Poe wrote:
@missmar1 wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@missmar1 wrote:
Just a thought Cordelia.....wouldn't the Mccann's lawyer have known what papers ( court woc ) the Mccann's would need when they first set out on this libel trial ?     She has had YEARS to prepare for the final stage !   
 If it turns out she didn't know about the need for those papers then, as their lawyer, imo she should have done her homework better.

But we also remember the finest Libel Lawyers in the world, who had also had YEARS to prepare, and had gone to the trouble and expense of preparing a sworn affidavit . .  had NO EVIDENCE to put before the Court of Abduction.

However good the lawyer, however mendacious the spokesman, however hard they may try, they cannot create Facts where there are none.
Hi PeterMac,

Yes, the oh so mighty lawyer firm  - had to admit in court they had no actual evidence of abduction.....  wait for it :

Their clients TOLD them that it was an abduction !

I have no legal expertise but I would have thought that all lawyers would insist on some kind of full disclosure indemnity.

So, if Isabel Duarte had been told by the McCanns about the woc she would have a legal duty to advise them of the full implications but been instructed by her clients to ignore it. However, if the McCanns failed to informed ID about the woc, she was under no obligation to investigate.

Isabel Duarte may be the best lawyer in the world (possibly not) but she can only follow her clients' instructions and work with the information she is given.


I agree, Poe, and since the procedures for making Madeleine ward of the court were very early on, she really might not have heard that. The McCanns must have known though, as even here on the forum that question was asked time, after time, they must have known.

____________________
"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?"  Gerry

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: Libel Trial Postponement: The Truth about the McCanns' Lie - by Nigel Moore.

Post by Okeydokey on 20.06.14 2:03

@ultimaThule wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@missmar1 wrote:
Just a thought Cordelia.....wouldn't the Mccann's lawyer have known what papers ( court woc ) the Mccann's would need when they first set out on this libel trial ?     She has had YEARS to prepare for the final stage !  
If it turns out she didn't know about the need for those papers then, as their lawyer, imo she should have done her homework better.


It is patently clear (to me anyway) that the Mccanns were not aware they need authorisation.
Else why would they deliberately file on behalf to represent Madeleine knowing false representation is a crime.  I suspect since WOC is an issue unclear to them whether they need permission or not, I'm inclined to think they'd not informed ID about it.  Hence it is not a question of ID not doing her duty; rather it is a question of Mccs themselves being unclear of the limitation or otherwise of the woc.  

They were given 30-days (since two weeks ago I think, off hand I can't remember date of Judge's latest ruling)  to produce the documentation.  This document is useful only if they win the case. Otherwise it will be a worthless piece of paper since the Judge already ruled that in the absence of said documentation then Madeleine as plaintiff will be removed and Madeleine's claims against the defendants will be deemed nullified since the Judge already ruled the McCanns had no authorisation to represent her.


Without having seen the order for Wardship in the case of MBM, I am assuming that care and control of the minor was given to her parents.  

I find it hard to believe that prior to applying for Wardship in May 2007 and throughout the subsequent proceedings which spanned the best part of a year, the McCanns were at no time informed of the provisions and restrictions inherent in Wardship and, in particular, of the need to obtain the consent of the Court before they took any 'important step in the child's life', aiyoyo.

I also find it hard to believe that the McCanns were unaware that instituting legal proceedings on the Ward's behalf constituted an 'important step' for which the consent of the Court was required.and, if this should be the case, it would seem that their UK lawyers have been exceedingly remiss in not appraising their clients of the full terms of Wardship and how it may impact on any future actions they were minded to take in respect of the Ward.

As there is no equivalent to Ward of Court in the Portuguese justice system, I would not expect its lawyers to be aware of how this status may affect any proceedings instituted in Portugal on behalf of a British minor and in such cases it is, imo, incumbent on the client to disclose all relevant information to their lawyer(s) before decisions are made.  

That said, when the PJ re-opened their investigation in October last year much was made in the Portuguese and British MSM of the McCanns intention to appy for assistente status which would enable them to work alongside the prosecutor and the police.   When this did not come to pass, I reviewed the press reports from that time and found that their Portuguese criminal lawyer had said only that his clients 'may' apply for this status.

When reading the relevant part of the Portuguese Penal Code, I learned that only those parents and guardians who hold full parental responsibility for their child/ren can apply for this status and it seems to me that the probable reason why no more was heard about the McCanns applying to become assistentes is that either they disclosed the Wardship to Mr Alves or he discovered it, and its implication for any such application, for himself.  

With regard to possible 'false representation', I intend to give this matter further consideration and come back to this thread in due course.

I agree with just about all you say, except "As there is no equivalent to Ward of Court in the Portuguese justice system" - surely all systems of justice have something like the Ward of Court system.

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Re: Libel Trial Postponement: The Truth about the McCanns' Lie - by Nigel Moore.

Post by aiyoyo on 20.06.14 8:34

I have stated before and don't mind repeating it again that imv the WOC was just a narrow spec one for purpose of obtaining info from Police, and not a general one where control over her total welfare is ceded over to Court.  
There won't be  limitations or restrictions in the Wardship else it must be mandatory to have Mccanns agreement and to give them a copy of the terms.   If that occurs they must know where they stand, hence my belief the WOC is not a general one thus they are not aware of any need to apply for permission since no restrictions or limitations were in force.

Unless a situation arising where the parents become deemed unsuitable to retain natural right to legal custodianship to the child, there is no reason for Court to sieze control of custodianship from the parents.

If she was WOC in the true sense preventing her parents from rights to overseer her welfare, surely such important issue would be made public in the media, so that they can no longer campaign for her, raise fund in her name etc.   More importantly the MET need to know that so that there won't be any need or obligation to update the mccanns.

In normal circumstances such issue between court and parents/guardians need not be made public in the observance of privacy right.  But this being exceptionally high profile case where her parents continue to raise fund through campaigns and more, surely the privacy rule cannot apply to this case for obvious reason, else the WOC is self defeating.

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Re: Libel Trial Postponement: The Truth about the McCanns' Lie - by Nigel Moore.

Post by Doug D on 20.06.14 11:18

Aiyoyo:
 
‘hence my belief the WOC is not a general one thus they are not aware of any need to apply for permission since no restrictions or limitations were in force’
 
That can’t be the case as the judge, having seen the WOC provided by GA has given the Mc’s 30 days to come up with any authorization they had to issue proceedings in M’s name.
 
‘The text continues with the consideration that because Madeleine was made a Ward of the Court on the 2nd of April of 2008, her parents did not possess, in 2009, “the necessary capacity of representation of their daughter to file the present action without the authorization from the British court”.
 
Nevertheless, the judge has decided that the final court session, which will include a statement from Gerald McCann and the presentation of closing arguments from all sides, should take place regardless of the matter of the Wardship.
 
After that hearing is completed, the proceedings will be suspended for 30 days. During that period, Madeleine’s parents “shall arrange for the collection and documentation in the records of the British Court’s authorization for the bringing of this action on behalf of the minor Madeleine McCann”. If they fail to do so, the defendants will be “acquitted of the proceedings concerning the requests that have been formulated on behalf of the latter”.’

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Re: Libel Trial Postponement: The Truth about the McCanns' Lie - by Nigel Moore.

Post by jeanmonroe on 20.06.14 11:43

Here's a 'poser'

As all the 'pros' scream that GA is a 'bent, corrupt, and stitcher upper of innocent people' etc.,

He would surely KNOW the 'signs' of a 'corrupt investigation' wouldn't he?

He would KNOW the modus operadi, of such a 'cover up', wouldn't he?

So the Met KNOW, he KNOWS, what is 'going on' don't they?

But they still plough on, with a perceived 'cover up/ whitewash' regardless.

Although a 'corrupt' cop, as the pros say, has said, iho, that is what the Met 'investigation', ARE trying to do.

He just dosen't KNOW, as yet, the 'WHY'

Plebgate police officers 'lied' (backed 100% by the Met Chief Commissioner, BHH) their way all the way to the doors of a high court room, THEN, and only then, did they 'fess up' resulting in a 30 year 'career' cop being JAILED for 'perverting the course of justice'

GA 'knows' exactly what the UK 'protectionists' are up to and is saying so loud and clear in Portugal.

Good on him, i say.

The McCanns, and the Met Police's 'problem' is, that even if a child's 'body' were found, all that would prove is that somebody died.

NOT who DID that 'crime', if that is what it was.

And the very LAST, admitted on record, person to have SEEN a LIVE, now 'missing' child, was that 'missing' child's OWN father!

Should of course have been Jane Tanner, but Met Police have PUBLICLY 'ruled' her 'sighting' out, so hey ho, it wasn't her, the LAST person to have SEEN a LIVE Madeleine WAS Gerry McCann!

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Re: Libel Trial Postponement: The Truth about the McCanns' Lie - by Nigel Moore.

Post by aiyoyo on 20.06.14 12:08

@Doug D wrote:
That can’t be the case as the judge, having seen the WOC provided by GA has given the Mc’s 30 days to come up with any authorization they had to issue proceedings in M’s name.

I am aware of that.
I believe the document in front of the Judge isn't such a clear cut one or the ball would not be thrown back into Mccs court. I think the doc creates doubt affording valid enough legal reason to deny Mccanns action on M's bebalf unless they show proof to clear the doubt. Asking them for permission letter is as good as asking them to prove they are still her legal guardian.
Something that will cost mccs a fortune to engage lawyer to get it sorted, same situation faced by Amaral. That is why I believe they will weigh their winning chances against worthiness of procuring this document. If the winning chances aren't there, it would not be worth their while expending energy, time, and money (lots of it) to hire lawyer to help them source this letter.

I cannot imagine the mccs would knowingly cede control of M over to court, nor can I imagine their lawyer (that turn Maddie to Court using court power to force data from police) would have failed in duty to inform them of the full implications and consequences on such an important matter.
I'm still of the belief it is not a WOC in the true definition of the word, else one would think they would not knowingly breach court's order, or knowingly misrepresent their stance to another court.

Just my take on it...that's all.


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Re: Libel Trial Postponement: The Truth about the McCanns' Lie - by Nigel Moore.

Post by tasprin on 20.06.14 20:38

(excellent -probably should be on 1st page of thread but too late to edit now)


Gerry McCann - The Travellin' Man - by Nigel Moore mccannfiles.com


The woman on the right, photo-bombing Gerry's 'Travellin' Man' shoot, is his sister, Trish Cameron

By Nigel Moore
20 June 2014


To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive, as another Scot with a penchant for poetic licence, Robert Louis Stevenson, once wrote. It's a well worn saying, and you'd be hard pressed to have sat through any TV talent show and not heard a stream of 'Truman effect' wannabees blathering on about 'the journey' - usually just prior to the public ordering them a taxi home. But for the McCanns it's different. For them, the journey is a torturous, soul destroying and time consuming ordeal of booking the flight, arranging the hotel (the usual?), getting time off work (Kate?) and arranging childcare. Why, that's a whole 45 minutes hard work down the pan straight off the bat.

It seems the McCanns are cursed 'above all cattle, and above every beast of the field' to enjoy fruitless journeys. Aside from being physically and emotionally worn down by the libel trial, who can forget their abortive poster-jolly (look at the pictures) to Huelva - where they arrived only to find most of the shops closed due to a public holiday. That particular journey must have slipped the McCanns mind outside the Palace of Justice, otherwise they would surely have raged about the 'FIVE times' Gonçalo Amaral had thwarted their plans. Forget pantomime villain, Dr Amaral is now taking on Svengali-like status with his supreme power to exercise control over the health and well-being of anyone that steps into his path. All he's missing now is a flowing black cape, a fiendishly coiffured moustache and a clap of thunder every time he appears.

So, let's get all this travelling business out into the open, where we can see it, once and for all, and clear up any misunderstandings about Gerry McCann's two trips to Lisbon. As the good doctor himself has frequently said, speculation does nobody any good. So let's burrow down and get to the truth. And that's 'the truth', by the way, not an 'account' of it.

The first time Gerry packed his toothbrush and flannel was for the hearing on 27 September 2013. As we now know, the hearing that day was adjourned due to an illness affecting Gonçalo Amaral's lawyer's son, which required hospital treatment. As Vitor Santos de Oliveira said at the time: "My son is having an operation. I hope that because of this you won't be making a hullabaloo saying that Gonçalo Amaral is holding things up." The 'you' here presumably being directed at the press, although it could equally be applied to the McCanns, seeing as the two have been in a mutually beneficial and 'consciously coupled' relationship for 7 years now.

That same press had led us to believe that Gerry McCann was coming to town for a showdown with his arch nemesis, Gonçalo Amaral, in a thrilling court room battle. He would appear in the witness box to give compelling evidence that would have the former police coordinator crying into his sardine lunch and muttering: "It's a fair cop, doc, you got me done up like a kipper."

As Clarence of the Yard said, in an official McCann press announcement: "I can confirm Gerry McCann is hoping to give evidence." Must be true then.

And, amidst all this, what did the slippery fish that is Gerry McCann have to say as he arrived?

"I am here for Madeleine, for justice, for the twins and ourselves," opined the heart specialist, neatly avoiding the issue of actually giving evidence. When he was pressed as to whether he would be making a statement in court, he replied unhelpfully: "I am not sure."

Following the adjournment, Gerry was asked whether he knew what had just happened, and said: "I think, errr... Isabel will be able to explain that better." Smart move. It's always best to defer tricky questions to a lawyer... or just don't answer them at all.

And in response to another question, he added: "Well, the law's changed and I think, errr... I think Kate and I know better than anyone else, errr... what we've experienced and what we've gone through and the facts of the file and, errm... the damage that's been caused to the search for Madeleine."

Within a week, Gerry was back at the Palace of Justice, in Lisbon, for the Second Act. Mirroring his previous performance, he was not sure what would happen. "We are here to listen to the judge and hopefully be heard," he told reporters.

As we all know, there is a perilous canyon between the towns of Hope and Reality. Twice every week people 'hope' they will win the EuroMillions lottery, even though there is only a 1 in 76,275,360 chance of doing so. Nevertheless, still better odds than there were that Gerry would get his 'day in court' that day.

As we have already seen, Gerry possessed clear knowledge that the law had changed and so it makes sense to take a closer look at what the new law actually says

 

(courtesy of Astro):

The Civil Process Code allows the parties in a civil case to make a 'declaration' to the court. This declaration has a purpose: the parties, not being witnesses and therefore not being able to add anything to the trial in terms of evidence, are given the opportunity to offer the court additional evidence and/or to make a confession. 
This declaration can ONLY be made AFTER all the evidence (witnesses and material evidence) has been presented, precisely because it is supposed to ADD to the evidence that the court has seen and/or heard. And because it is supposed to ADD to the evidence, it is up to the judge to decide whether or not he/she has been presented with enough evidence and whether or not he/she believes that the party or parties can add anything of use to the evidence that has been presented. 
In the former civil process code, there was no opportunity for any of the parties to confess. This is the main purpose of the new disposition.
*** 

None of the parties - Kate and Gerry McCann or Gonçalo Amaral - could ever speak in court before the witnesses had all been heard. That is how the process is designed, no exceptions. And because the judge's permission depended upon her assessment of the evidence that would be presented by the witnesses, she would never have been able to approve or refuse their request for a declaration BEFORE the last witness was heard.


So, the truth is that Gerry McCann would have known exactly what would happen at the hearings he attended and what the judge would say - that she would be unable to rule on whether he could give evidence until after all the witnesses had been heard. Yet he was happy for the lie - that he was 'hoping' to give evidence in court but was then heartbreakingly thwarted - to perpetuate, and he was happy to use the press, and Clarence Mitchell, in the dissemination of this lie.

Any other interpretation of events would suggest the McCanns' lawyer, Isabel Duarte, was incompetent in her duties and had failed to advise her clients correctly. She should therefore have had her mandate revoked immediately, having wasted Gerry McCanns precious time TWICE. A crime that would put her one rung above Maleficent, the self proclaimed Mistress of All Evil, according to the McCann book.

Whether Gerry travelled in full knowledge of the facts (and remember he told us himself that the law had changed thus demonstrating prior knowledge) or in complete ignorance, one fact appears clear: Isabel Duarte was either compliant to her clients charade outside the court (on two occasions) or she was complicit in a blatant and cynical piece of Lisbon street theatre.


So, having no reason to be there, why was it so important for Gerry McCann to fly to Lisbon, on two futile journeys, and drain the diminishing coffers of Madeleine's Fund yet further - having already raided the Fund to pay expenses to all their witnesses?

Maybe he thought his presence needed to be imposed on the proceedings, following the disastrous anecdotal musings, served up as 'evidence', by the witnesses he and Kate had cobbled together. Maybe he wanted to ensure Trish Cameron wasn't approached by the press for an unscripted quote. Maybe he felt the McCanns' reputation is so fragile and powerless he needed to divert attention away from impending bad news - since he chose to travel on the first day that Gonçalo Amaral's witnesses were due to be heard, and then came back again the following week to make sure the job was done. Pure coincidence, I'm sure. And, of course, the press lapped it all up like the thirsty little kittens they are. Clean plates all round.

Never mind. We move on. Street theatre only has a limited shelf life. Justice lasts a lifetime.

And the good news, for justice, is that Gonçalo Amaral is in good spirits and has already appointed a new lawyer, whose name is currently being placed with the court.

The trial will soon be concluded and then it will over to the judge, Maria Emília de Melo e Castro, to make her decision.

What view she takes of all this sideshow nonsense will only be known by her but I am confident her decision will be grounded in the evidence presented before her in the court room, and not in the flights of fancy that have taken place outside it

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id232.html

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Re: Libel Trial Postponement: The Truth about the McCanns' Lie - by Nigel Moore.

Post by Mirage on 20.06.14 21:04

@jeanmonroe wrote:Here's a 'poser'

As all the 'pros' scream that GA is a 'bent, corrupt, and stitcher upper of innocent people' etc.,

He would surely KNOW the 'signs' of a 'corrupt investigation' wouldn't he?

He would KNOW the modus operadi, of such a 'cover up', wouldn't he?

So the Met KNOW, he KNOWS, what is 'going on' don't they?

But they still plough on, with a perceived 'cover up/ whitewash' regardless.

Although a 'corrupt' cop, as the pros say, has said, iho, that is what the Met 'investigation', ARE trying to do.

He just dosen't KNOW, as yet, the 'WHY'

Plebgate police officers 'lied' (backed 100% by the Met Chief Commissioner, BHH) their way all the way to the doors of a high court room, THEN, and only then, did they 'fess up' resulting in a 30 year 'career' cop being JAILED for 'perverting the course of justice'

GA 'knows' exactly what the UK 'protectionists' are up to and is saying so loud and clear in Portugal.

Good on him, i say.

The McCanns, and the Met Police's 'problem' is, that even if a child's 'body' were found, all that would prove is that somebody died.

NOT who DID that 'crime', if that is what it was.

And the very LAST, admitted on record, person to have SEEN a LIVE, now 'missing' child, was that 'missing' child's OWN father!

Should of course have been Jane Tanner, but Met Police have PUBLICLY 'ruled' her 'sighting' out,  so hey ho, it wasn't her, the LAST person to have SEEN a LIVE Madeleine WAS Gerry McCann!

He'll feel very proud to know that ...........  as well as a bit sweaty.   big grin

____________________
Kate McCann: "It's too 'ot. Give 'im a minute."

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