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British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by Indricotherium on 17.06.14 0:01

re. The Mirror headline tomorrow, I've never understood this preoccupation with the word 'vile'. It's also repeated again and again by some of the strange people on Twitter.

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by worriedmum on 17.06.14 0:15

@Indricotherium wrote:re. The Mirror headline tomorrow, I've never understood this preoccupation with the word 'vile'. It's also repeated again and again by some of the strange people on Twitter.
How simply vile of them!  big grin

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by Okeydokey on 17.06.14 2:31

@Mirage wrote:These x4 postponements are being quoted by the likes of Kevin Macguire and Andrew Pearce (Sky newspaper reviews) in Amaral attacks. Does anyone have the chronological facts on this?

At least one of the four seems to have been at the behest of the McCann lawyer Isabel Duarte.

One we know was perfectly legitimate re the MMcC being a ward of court in the UK, a fact that the McCanns had signally failed to bring to the attention of the Portugese courts. They only had themselves to blame for that.

That leaves two which can fairly be laid at Amaral's door potentially.  But what the first might be, I've no idea.

Of course the McCanns might be referring to perfectly legitimate appeals.

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by Newintown on 17.06.14 2:33

@Mirage wrote:These x4 postponements are being quoted by the likes of Kevin Macguire and Andrew Pearce (Sky newspaper reviews) in Amaral attacks. Does anyone have the chronological facts on this?

Some of the dates are here -

From McCannfiles -

Trial that opposes McCanns and Gonçalo Amaral is suspended TVI24
Decision related to negotiation attempt
By: TVI24   | 18/01/2013 17:43

With many thanks to Astro for translation

The trial that opposes the McCann couple and Gonçalo Amaral, in which Madeleine's parents demand compensation of 1.2 million euro over alleged defamation by the former PJ inspector, has been suspended due to an attempt to reach an extrajudicial agreement.
A judicial source has told Lusa agency that the start of the trial, which was planned for the 24th and the 25th of this month at the 1st circuit of the Civil Court of Lisbon, "has been suspended because the parties are trying to reach an agreement".
The judge's order granting the suspension was signed at the end of last week, which means that now a six-month term runs its course, after which, if there is no agreement between Gonçalo Amaral and the parents of the child that went missing in 2007, in the Algarve, an audience will be scheduled.

The start of this trial has been postponed twice, the first one on the 9th of February of 2012.

The judge then scheduled the start of the trial at the Palace of Justice for the 13th of September of the same year, with another three sessions on the agenda, but none took place due to Gonçalo Amaral's lawyer's unavailability, as he was admitted for a stomach examination under anesthesia.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From Jill Havern forum -

 Re: Libel Trial 7th Jan Postponed - confirmed
   sallypelt on Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:52 pm
@jontaito Toast 1m

Trial postponed for 3 days of national mourning for Eusebio. No intrigue, no spin. #mccann

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From McCcannfiles -

GERRY MCCANN will today come face to face with the Portuguese police chief who falsely accused him and wife Kate of covering up their daughter Madeleine's death.
By: Mark Reynolds and Gerard
Published: Fri, September 27, 2013

Gerry, 45, is expected to give evidence at a £1million libel trial over Goncalo Amaral's "awful, malicious lies" that the missing youngster died in their Algarve holiday apartment in May 2007.
The consultant cardiologist hopes to take to the witness box in Portugal to accuse Mr Amaral of hindering the search for Madeleine with claims in a book that the McCanns faked her abduction to cover up her death.
Gerry also intends to spell out the pain and anguish the former detective's "awful, malicious lies" have caused his family.
Gerry has submitted a request to be heard as a witness to the court in Lisbon where the case is held.
Judge Maria Emilia Melo e Castro must approve the request before the trial restarts today.
Gerry's sister Trish Cameron has already been confirmed as a witness. Kate McCann attended the start of the case a fortnight ago with her mother Susan Healy and cousin Michael Corner, but she will not be present today.
Mrs Healy was unable to give evidence when the case was held up by a personal emergency for the judge.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id456.html

The other postponement was when GA's lawyer's son was rushed into hospital and he had to leave the Court.  It may be on the link above but it's getting too late to check.  (I've just found the date on that link - 27th Sept 2013 - Martin Brunt sent a Tweet from the court)

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All In.

Post by BlueBag on 17.06.14 6:54

In poker terms Amaral is now "all in".

God I hope he knows what he is doing.


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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by Guest on 17.06.14 7:33

@Indricotherium wrote:re. The Mirror headline tomorrow, I've never understood this preoccupation with the word 'vile'. It's also repeated again and again by some of the strange people on Twitter.
No mystery, really. Vile is a short but intense word that takes up very little space in a banner headline or intro (especially as two of the four letters are an I and an L. Twitter is also dependant on brevity, so 'vile' and 'evil' go down a storm on there, too.

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by Gaggzy on 17.06.14 7:52

@j.rob wrote:Note how an eye-witness sees them in their car in Huelva at 11.20 at some traffic lights. But according to their version of events they arrrive at 12.15pm.

When questioned about this, I can imagine Gerry McCann saying, Ah yes. Just like those cadaver dogs, eye-witnesses can be so unreliable.

 notme

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by kevmack on 17.06.14 8:39

I'm really keen to find out the veracity of this and the link Candyfloss posted earlier with all the references to dawn in PdL..that's really intriguing, and definitely sounds like certain people know things.., wish they'd hurry up and reveal all, I understand about timing etc and to use the Mccanns favourite soundbite, getting all of the pieces of the puzzle, but it's so frustrating if there is evidence there, that is being kept under wraps until it can all be tied together, prior to finally resolving this crime.

I am a strong believer that the only reason there has been no action against the McCanns so far is the lack of solid evidence that will secure a conviction in a court of law.  Knowing how slippery the McCanns can be, every i needs to be dotted and every t crossed, but hopefully it is just a matter of time

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by noddy100 on 17.06.14 8:45

@kevmack wrote:I'm really keen to find out the veracity of this and the link Candyfloss posted earlier with all the references to dawn in PdL..that's really intriguing, and definitely sounds like certain people know things.., wish they'd hurry up and reveal all, I understand about timing etc and to use the Mccanns favourite soundbite, getting all of the pieces of the puzzle, but it's so frustrating if there is evidence there, that is being kept under wraps until it can all be tied together, prior to finally resolving this crime.

I am a strong believer that the only reason there has been no action against the McCanns so far is the lack of solid evidence that will secure a conviction in a court of law.  Knowing how slippery the McCanns can be, every i needs to be dotted and every t crossed, but hopefully it is just a matter of time
They look rattled
I think they have always been confident because they know the body will never be found
This has kept the charade going
But now I think they may be realising that forensics etc have moved on and some cases are brought without a body and the longer this drags out the more chance they have of being rumbled
That coupled with their indented arrogance is written all over their faces
They are used to calling the shots and now they aren't
Not even with SY

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by ChippyM on 17.06.14 8:46

@Gaggzy wrote:
@j.rob wrote:Note how an eye-witness sees them in their car in Huelva at 11.20 at some traffic lights. But according to their version of events they arrrive at 12.15pm.

When questioned about this, I can imagine Gerry McCann saying, Ah yes. Just like those cadaver dogs, eye-witnesses can be so unreliable.

 notme

 I imagine he would say the allegations are 'ludicrous' or 'ridiculous', or 'you know, we're not even going to answer that'.

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by noddy100 on 17.06.14 8:49

@noddy100 wrote:
@kevmack wrote:I'm really keen to find out the veracity of this and the link Candyfloss posted earlier with all the references to dawn in PdL..that's really intriguing, and definitely sounds like certain people know things.., wish they'd hurry up and reveal all, I understand about timing etc and to use the Mccanns favourite soundbite, getting all of the pieces of the puzzle, but it's so frustrating if there is evidence there, that is being kept under wraps until it can all be tied together, prior to finally resolving this crime.

I am a strong believer that the only reason there has been no action against the McCanns so far is the lack of solid evidence that will secure a conviction in a court of law.  Knowing how slippery the McCanns can be, every i needs to be dotted and every t crossed, but hopefully it is just a matter of time
They look rattled
I think they have always been confident because they know the body will never be found
This has kept the charade going
But now I think they may be realising that forensics etc have moved on and some cases are brought without a body and the longer this drags out the more chance they have of being rumbled
That coupled with their indented arrogance is written all over their faces
They are used to calling the shots and now they aren't
Not even with SY
Undented

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by fossey on 17.06.14 8:52

@Gaggzy wrote:
@j.rob wrote:Note how an eye-witness sees them in their car in Huelva at 11.20 at some traffic lights. But according to their version of events they arrrive at 12.15pm.

When questioned about this, I can imagine Gerry McCann saying, Ah yes. Just like those cadaver dogs, eye-witnesses can be so unreliable.

 notme


Gerry: I can tell you that we have also looked at evidence about (haha) eye-witnesses and they are incredibly unreliable.


Sandra: Unreliable?

Gerry: Eye-witnesses, yes. That's what the evidence shows, if they are tested scientifically."

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by Guest on 17.06.14 10:26

@fossey wrote:

Gerry: I can tell you that we have also looked at evidence about (haha) eye-witnesses and they are incredibly unreliable.

Sadly I believe this is actually considered to be true.

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by sofieellis on 17.06.14 10:43

@ChippyM wrote:Are bodies really left in coffins unnattended in churches in Portugal? I find it hard to believe unless traditions are very different.

 In the UK the body is kept at a funeral home and then transported to the church or cemetery for the funeral.

Sorry if anyone else has already answered this, I'm playing catch-up.

I grew up in the RC faith in the UK and it is still traditional for coffins to be taken to Church the night before the funeral. There is usually a ceremony as the coffin arrrives at the Church. Then the coffin is left overnight and the friends and family return for the funeral the following day. (In Ireland, the body is kept in the person's home and family, friends and priest attend the "wake", before taking the coffin to the church on the day of the funeral).

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by Mirage on 17.06.14 10:58

@sofieellis wrote:
@ChippyM wrote:Are bodies really left in coffins unnattended in churches in Portugal? I find it hard to believe unless traditions are very different.

 In the UK the body is kept at a funeral home and then transported to the church or cemetery for the funeral.

Sorry if anyone else has already answered this, I'm playing catch-up.

I grew up in the RC faith in the UK and it is still traditional for coffins to be taken to Church the night before the funeral. There is usually a ceremony as the coffin arrrives at the Church. Then the coffin is left overnight and the friends and family return for the funeral the following day. (In Ireland, the body is kept in the person's home and family, friends and priest attend the "wake", before taking the coffin to the church on the day of the funeral).

That is quite right sofieellis. My mother's coffin was in church overnight. There is usually a small service for mourners. A few prayers. I think it is called vigil.

As you say, it is the norm for Catholics. It has reminded me of when my daughter was learning to play the church organ I had the keys to the RC church on a Wed evening. I used to collect them from the priest and pop them back through the presbytery letterbox after I'd locked up. One winter evening I unlocked the church and found there was a coffin in overnight.  It was a bit unexpected as the priest hadn't told me. But that's how commonplace it is.

____________________
Kate McCann: "It's too 'ot. Give 'im a minute."

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by Mirage on 17.06.14 11:02

Thank you tasprin, okeydokey and Newintown for helpful responses.

____________________
Kate McCann: "It's too 'ot. Give 'im a minute."

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by ChippyM on 17.06.14 11:08

@sofieellis wrote:
@ChippyM wrote:Are bodies really left in coffins unnattended in churches in Portugal? I find it hard to believe unless traditions are very different.

 In the UK the body is kept at a funeral home and then transported to the church or cemetery for the funeral.

Sorry if anyone else has already answered this, I'm playing catch-up.

I grew up in the RC faith in the UK and it is still traditional for coffins to be taken to Church the night before the funeral. There is usually a ceremony as the coffin arrrives at the Church. Then the coffin is left overnight and the friends and family return for the funeral the following day. (In Ireland, the body is kept in the person's home and family, friends and priest attend the "wake", before taking the coffin to the church on the day of the funeral).

I was brought up RC too, in England. I've never encountered the coffin being left at the church, maybe it's a tradition that's on the wane?.   I suppose it could depend on individual churche's policies and peoples wishes, as you say it is definitely a part of Catholic tradition, which I didn't realise!

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by Guest on 17.06.14 11:15

@Mirage wrote:
@sofieellis wrote:
@ChippyM wrote:Are bodies really left in coffins unnattended in churches in Portugal? I find it hard to believe unless traditions are very different.

 In the UK the body is kept at a funeral home and then transported to the church or cemetery for the funeral.

Sorry if anyone else has already answered this, I'm playing catch-up.

I grew up in the RC faith in the UK and it is still traditional for coffins to be taken to Church the night before the funeral. There is usually a ceremony as the coffin arrrives at the Church. Then the coffin is left overnight and the friends and family return for the funeral the following day. (In Ireland, the body is kept in the person's home and family, friends and priest attend the "wake", before taking the coffin to the church on the day of the funeral).

That is quite right sofieellis. My mother's coffin was in church overnight. There is usually a small service for mourners. A few prayers. I think it is called vigil.

As you say, it is the norm for Catholics. It has reminded me of when my daughter was learning to play the church organ I had the keys to the RC church on a Wed evening. I used to collect them from the priest and pop them back through the presbytery letterbox after I'd locked up. One winter evening I unlocked the church and found there was a coffin in overnight.  It was a bit unexpected as the priest hadn't told me. But that's how commonplace it is.

OK, a bit off the wall here, but as part of learning Portuguese I took to watching the RTP soap opera Bem-vindos a Beirais. Among the characters are a couple of comedy undertakers who might just also be gangsters. I have wondered if this tapped into something in Portuguese culture that we in the UK aren't privy to.

Anyway, don't watch this video.




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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by sofieellis on 17.06.14 11:23

@ChippyM wrote:
@sofieellis wrote:
@ChippyM wrote:Are bodies really left in coffins unnattended in churches in Portugal? I find it hard to believe unless traditions are very different.

 In the UK the body is kept at a funeral home and then transported to the church or cemetery for the funeral.

Sorry if anyone else has already answered this, I'm playing catch-up.

I grew up in the RC faith in the UK and it is still traditional for coffins to be taken to Church the night before the funeral. There is usually a ceremony as the coffin arrrives at the Church. Then the coffin is left overnight and the friends and family return for the funeral the following day. (In Ireland, the body is kept in the person's home and family, friends and priest attend the "wake", before taking the coffin to the church on the day of the funeral).

I was brought up RC too, in England. I've never encountered the coffin being left at the church, maybe it's a tradition that's on the wane?.   I suppose it could depend on individual churche's policies and peoples wishes, as you say it is definitely a part of Catholic tradition, which I didn't realise!


It probably happens less nowadays (apart from anything else, priests are scarce and difficult to find, to conduct the actual funeral, never mind a second service), but it is still quite the norm. Usually only very close friends and family attend the evening service, so it would be quite possible to attend the funeral the following day, without realising that the coffin had been in church since the night before.

In Ireland, when the coffin is taken home, there is a constant vigil by family and friends, who stay with the deceased up until the time of the funeral. But here in England, the deceased is left in the church alone overnight - which has always made me worry about criminals. Not sure why, apart from my family's parish church being in a very rough area!

If the same tradition is used in Portugal, then anyone with keys, would also have access to the coffin.

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by canada12 on 17.06.14 11:28

@sofieellis wrote:
If the same tradition is used in Portugal, then anyone with keys, would also have access to the coffin.

And if someone with keys had the time to wait until someone died, and their coffin was placed overnight in the church, then it would be a simple matter to take an item out of cold storage and transport it to the coffin, and nobody would be any the wiser in the morning.

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by ChippyM on 17.06.14 11:32

@canada12 wrote:
@sofieellis wrote:
If the same tradition is used in Portugal, then anyone with keys, would also have access to the coffin.

And if someone with keys had the time to wait until someone died, and their coffin was placed overnight in the church, then it would be a simple matter to take an item out of cold storage and transport it to the coffin, and nobody would be any the wiser in the morning.

  And someone who knew about the Catholic traditions of leaving the coffin in the church....unlike me, I would never have thought of such a thing!

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by Silver Shuffle on 17.06.14 11:35

I've been googling, but couldn't find any death notices or dates around the Algarve June 2007. Probably like finding a pin in a haystack.

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by Judex on 17.06.14 11:38

@j.rob wrote:Much of interest on here. 

Including the fact that there is a There is a Roman Catholic Cemetery just north of Huelva.

The British Cemetery, called "Nuestra Señora de la Soledad", BELONGS TO THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT. It is in a countryside area outside of town so can be difficult to locate. 


Surely this would be a far more likely 'resting place' - if you subscribe to the Establishment cover-up - than Maddie being snuck into someone else's coffin??





http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/TodayTopics.html

Cementerio de Nuestra Señora de la Soledad Huelva

Copy and paste above into Google maps. The cemetery is in open countryside on the outskirts of the town, also close to deserted salt marshes .

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by End on 17.06.14 13:06

@sofieellis wrote:
@ChippyM wrote:Are bodies really left in coffins unnattended in churches in Portugal? I find it hard to believe unless traditions are very different.

 In the UK the body is kept at a funeral home and then transported to the church or cemetery for the funeral.

Sorry if anyone else has already answered this, I'm playing catch-up.

I grew up in the RC faith in the UK and it is still traditional for coffins to be taken to Church the night before the funeral. There is usually a ceremony as the coffin arrrives at the Church. Then the coffin is left overnight and the friends and family return for the funeral the following day. (In Ireland, the body is kept in the person's home and family, friends and priest attend the "wake", before taking the coffin to the church on the day of the funeral).

In Ireland quiet often the coffin will be left in the Church overnight, esp. when the deceases has no relatives or the remains has come in from abroad.

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Re: British Police hiding evidence in Maddie case.

Post by Bishop Brennan on 17.06.14 13:10

@ChippyM wrote:
@canada12 wrote:
@sofieellis wrote:
If the same tradition is used in Portugal, then anyone with keys, would also have access to the coffin.

And if someone with keys had the time to wait until someone died, and their coffin was placed overnight in the church, then it would be a simple matter to take an item out of cold storage and transport it to the coffin, and nobody would be any the wiser in the morning.

  And someone who knew about the Catholic traditions of leaving the coffin in the church....unlike me, I would never have thought of such a thing!

It's an astonishing twist to this saga that seems to have no end. But that the story comes from Amaral - already facing a libel charge - does give it a lot of credibility. This is not a 'source' or a rumour, this seems to be Amaral being quoted directly. As bluebag said earlier, he appears to be going "all in" - so let's hope he's got the cards (Ace or otherwise) to back it up. The McCanns lawyers are certain to call him on it, so he needs to know this is true... or know someone who does. Fingers crossed!


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