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I'm hoping Pat Brown is being sarcastic here :)

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Re: I'm hoping Pat Brown is being sarcastic here :)

Post by Casey5 on 14.06.14 15:11

To clear up the misconception, Pat Brown was, indeed, being sarcastic. She has met with and has great respect for Gonçalo Amaral I believe.
http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/thank-you-scotland-yard.html
June 13, 2014 at 5:50 AM

Pat Brown said...
BTW, someone just posted on Facebook that they thought this was a great post, that all along they have thought the McCanns were innocent and that Maddie is alive. Goes to show how people who haven't read the files will view the actions and statements by Scotland Yard (and. in this case, completely miss my point and sarcasm).

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Re: I'm hoping Pat Brown is being sarcastic here :)

Post by ChippyM on 14.06.14 15:41

@petunia wrote:I don't  know what to think of Pat anymore,i used to like her posts a few years back but now?

 I feel the same. She went to Portugal and had a good look at the area and made some conclusions that were quite reasonable........ now however she seems determined to see that everything indicates a whitewash.....yet she uses the 'sources' in the media to hinge her whitewash theory on.

"Two things jump out at me: the first thing is that the statement does not include the words "in the vacation flat" which means, at this point, Scotland Yard is not necessarily giving any credibility to the cadaver and blood evidence in the apartment. .....
....... The second thing that jumped out at me is that this is "just one hypothesis, " which opens the door for Maddie being alive which validates the McCanns' search,

  I don't see why they would include  the words 'in the flat', if they did they would more or less be accusing the Mc's straight out maybe before they have gathered the evidence needed to secure conviction. (if that's what they are trying to do and at this stage no-one knows for sure).

'Just one hypothesis' ,  indicates there could be 'many' others, it does not excluded the one that Amaral was working to. Why just leap to the conclusion that SY's only other hypothesis is that M is alive? 

    I know this latest piece is based on SY's official statement but recently I'm having trouble taking Pat Brown's opinion seriously as she uses unverified media reports on which to base her theories.

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Re: I'm hoping Pat Brown is being sarcastic here :)

Post by ShuBob on 14.06.14 15:54

ChippyM, you and I appear to be singing from the same hymn sheet as far as PB is concerned.

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Re: I'm hoping Pat Brown is being sarcastic here :)

Post by kimHager on 14.06.14 17:13

the writ says the mccanns suffers from " permenant anxiety, insomnia,  lack of appetite ,irritability, and an indefinable fear"
 
one thing is strange..how did GA make you feel this way it is illogical unless deep down you feel like this because GA knows the truth? 
one would think that any parent of a missing child might feel this way because their child is missing.
But kate goes on to say"wild stories were appearing in the papers about my fragile mental state,my innability to cope with my hyperactive children, eating disorders and sedatives...all complete bullshit"


so kate you pretty much said...the lawsuit is a lie..you suffered none of this.From your own words.Hmmm GA the proofs in the pudding.she says so herself.

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Re: I'm hoping Pat Brown is being sarcastic here :)

Post by sofieellis on 14.06.14 17:31

when I read this article, I thought that anyone who was unfamiliar with Pat's work, could easily misinterpret the meaning. Sarcasm is pretty dangerous when you're trying to get a message out.

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Re: I'm hoping Pat Brown is being sarcastic here :)

Post by ChippyM on 14.06.14 17:39

@ShuBob wrote:ChippyM, you and I appear to be singing from the same hymn sheet as far as PB is concerned.

Good to hear I'm not the only one.  Basically I think just like the majority of people here, Pat is offering her opinion. I am a little bit doubtful of what expertise or experience she has in criminal profiling that qualifies her beyond many of the posters here.

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Re: I'm hoping Pat Brown is being sarcastic here :)

Post by Guest on 14.06.14 17:46

@kimHager wrote:the writ says the mccanns suffers from " permenant anxiety, insomnia,  lack of appetite ,irritability, and an indefinable fear"
 
one thing is strange..how did GA make you feel this way it is illogical unless deep down you feel like this because GA knows the truth? 
one would think that any parent of a missing child might feel this way because their child is missing.
But kate goes on to say"wild stories were appearing in the papers about my fragile mental state,my innability to cope with my hyperactive children, eating disorders and sedatives...all complete bullshit"


so kate you pretty much said...the lawsuit is a lie..you suffered none of this.From your own words.Hmmm GA the proofs in the pudding.she says so herself.

I agree k|H.   Just from the heading of this forum the 1st and 3rd quotes from TM totally contradict one another.    

Mind, photos of them smiling and laughing after the loss of their eldest child quite destroy their arguments anyway.

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Re: I'm hoping Pat Brown is being sarcastic here :)

Post by kimHager on 14.06.14 17:59

I know daffodil it makes me hopeful that the judge will see it and know the only emotions those two suffer from are narcissism and greed.( spelling sorry)IMO....   clapping

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Re: I'm hoping Pat Brown is being sarcastic here :)

Post by Guest on 14.06.14 19:46

Pat Brown IMO is being facetious, her blogs about the case have been on the same lines for a while and I like it.  Just look at OG's performance to date, they've been saying much the same things since the case review started in May 2011 but what progress have they made towards a likely solution?  None as far as I can see.  I know they claim to be systematically working through the case (I assume they mean the translated Portuguese files, the private investigator's reports and whatever other information that have access to) but again to what end, wasn't that all been done before by the PJ?  A few more million down the pan while they fanny about with god knows how many slightly suspicious characters with or without a criminal record or take themselves off to the sun and dig a few holes as a token gesture?

I wouldn't or couldn't for a second suggest that OG's recent expedition was solely a tool to reinforce the McCann's attempts at ruining Goncalo Amaral but I appreciate Pat Brown's tongue in cheek implication.  Having said that, what exactly is the purpose of OG, perhaps it should be OMG!

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Re: I'm hoping Pat Brown is being sarcastic here :)

Post by aiyoyo on 14.06.14 21:23

http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/what-some-people-are-misunderstanding.html

Pat's latest - An Extremely Gloomy Piece. dontgetit 

Warning: soz 
Do not open the link if you don't want to spoil your rest of the day. 

ETA:  Either Pat has lost it, or I am bonkers to believe there's light at the end of the tunnel. huh

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Re: I'm hoping Pat Brown is being sarcastic here :)

Post by Guest on 14.06.14 21:49

I have to again agree with her pessimistic outlook.  If Gerry and Kate McCann are being protected for some reason (which I believe to be true) what hope is there of a favourable outcome?  Judging by Crimewatch and press releases, OG are only pursuing dead people, convicted or suspected paedophiles and burglars but they are ignoring the most important aspects of the original Portuguese investigation.  It seems to me that OG also want the public to forget those important factors, as Pat Brown suggests, it's up to the public to make sure that doesn't happen.

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Re: I'm hoping Pat Brown is being sarcastic here :)

Post by canada12 on 14.06.14 22:09

I tend to believe rather strongly in Karma. Even if they "get away with it", as so many seem convinced now will happen, their own personal hell will never disappear. Those who are guilty of causing Madeleine's death, of concealing her death, of lying about her death, of conning the gullable public out of so much money and of continuing to live a lie, will have to also live with this knowledge for the rest of their lives. They may laugh and shrug and sneer and think, ha! We did it, we fooled everyone! But they are not fooling themselves, and they will forever afterwards have to live with the knowledge that when people look back at the history, at the facts which have been made known, at all of the evidence and non-evidence, at the things they've done and said, and the people they've harmed, they will be judged. And judged harshly. There's no escaping that fact. And, if they are at all as religious as they claim to be, they will have to answer to their god. Where will you end up when you're dead, Kate and Gerry? In your idea of heaven? Or condemned to an eternal hell, for all of your deeds and actions? They may be able to escape criminal prosecution now. But they will never be free of their guilt. And they will never be forgiven for what they've done to Madeleine, and Madeleine's memory.

All my own personal opinion.

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Re: I'm hoping Pat Brown is being sarcastic here :)

Post by Guest on 14.06.14 22:16

@canada12 wrote:I tend to believe rather strongly in Karma. Even if they "get away with it", as so many seem convinced now will happen, their own personal hell will never disappear. Those who are guilty of causing Madeleine's death, of concealing her death, of lying about her death, of conning the gullable public out of so much money and of continuing to live a lie, will have to also live with this knowledge for the rest of their lives. They may laugh and shrug and sneer and think, ha! We did it, we fooled everyone! But they are not fooling themselves, and they will forever afterwards have to live with the knowledge that when people look back at the history, at the facts which have been made known, at all of the evidence and non-evidence, at the things they've done and said, and the people they've harmed, they will be judged. And judged harshly. There's no escaping that fact. And, if they are at all as religious as they claim to be, they will have to answer to their god. Where will you end up when you're dead, Kate and Gerry? In your idea of heaven? Or condemned to an eternal hell, for all of your deeds and actions? They may be able to escape criminal prosecution now. But they will never be free of their guilt. And they will never be forgiven for what they've done to Madeleine, and Madeleine's memory.

All my own personal opinion.

Good thinking!

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Re: I'm hoping Pat Brown is being sarcastic here :)

Post by aiyoyo on 14.06.14 22:19

Alright, even granted OG quest is a blur indication, but....but...but.. what about Dr. Amaral's chance ?
Surely Pat's prediction is way off the mark if the injunction overturn and Judges' condemnation of the lower court are anything to do by.
Moreover what has the belief of conspiracy theory or british establishment involvement in the criminal case process got anything to do with a libel case between individuals ? dontgetit 


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Re: I'm hoping Pat Brown is being sarcastic here :)

Post by ChippyM on 14.06.14 22:26

@aiyoyo wrote:http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/what-some-people-are-misunderstanding.html

Pat's latest - An Extremely Gloomy Piece. dontgetit 

Warning: soz 
Do not open the link if you don't want to spoil your rest of the day. 

ETA:  Either Pat has lost it, or I am bonkers to believe there's light at the end of the tunnel. huh

It's not spoiling my day because although, I genuinley think Pat Brown and many of us here want justice for a child that was let down terribly by certain people and that should unite us -  we don't all agree with whats going on with Operation Grange and  we are not a brainless homogenised lump.

  
" Should I only speak if it makes people comfortable and strokes their feelings of optimism? I don't think that is my role. I am a criminal profiler and I have always told it like it is and I am not going to stop now. I am certainly fine with opposing theories or purposes (some have to be the more positive ones), but my keeping it real shouldn't cause such malicious attacks except some people must really think I have hit the nail on the head and they don't like that this means there is not going to be a happy ending."

   Personally I don't think this is to do with making people 'comfortable', maybe some people just don't agree with Pat Brown's conclusions.

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Re: I'm hoping Pat Brown is being sarcastic here :)

Post by canada12 on 14.06.14 22:28

@aiyoyo wrote:Alright, even granted OG quest is a blur indication, but....but...but.. what about Dr. Amaral's chance ?
Surely Pat's prediction is way off the mark if the injunction overturn and Judges' condemnation of the lower court are anything to do by.  
Moreover what has the belief of conspiracy theory or british establishment involvement in the criminal case process got anything to do with a libel case between individuals ? dontgetit 


I tend to think Dr Amaral will win the court case hands down, simply because I don't believe Kate and Gerry have been able to adequately prove that his book has harmed the search for Madeleine, nor has it caused them excessive discomfort or distress. Their witnesses were complete washouts.

I'm still curious about the outcome of the WOC issue. If it turns out they're not able to sue on behalf of Madeleine, I wonder if it will negate the entire court case, or if the judge will decide that they had the right to sue on behalf of the twins and themselves, but not Madeleine. Thinking creatively, I wonder if the judge will decide to throw out the case on the basis that the WOC issue makes the entire lawsuit invalid. Is that even allowed under Portuguese law? I have no idea.

In that event, however, nobody wins. But someone has to pick up the costs, and I suspect it would be the plaintiffs, if that's what it came down to.

On the other hand, the judge may decide that the case was ok to be heard, but without the inclusion of Madeleine (if indeed, the result of the WOC issue is that the McCanns DIDN'T have the right to sue on her behalf). If that happens, I believe the judgement will be against the McCanns and for Dr. Amaral.

Even if the WOC issue turns out to have been solved and they DID have the right to sue on her behalf. I still believe the judgement will be against them.

Whatever the case, I agree that if the McCanns lose, it's likely to be appealed. But I sincerely hope if that's the case, Dr Amaral's assets are unfrozen and he's allowed to try and reassemble his life after all these years.

It will be interesting to see how the UK press spin it.

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Re: I'm hoping Pat Brown is being sarcastic here :)

Post by aiyoyo on 14.06.14 22:34

@ChippyM wrote:

It's not spoiling my day because although, I genuinley think Pat Brown and many of us here want justice for a child that was let down terribly by certain people and that should unite us -  we don't all agree with whats going on with Operation Grange and  we are not a brainless homogenised lump.

I most certainly do not think I have mud for brain, never mind homogenised.
But I do think she's lost the plot being led merrily down the garden path by the UK and Portugal media.

Either she is wrong or I am wrong. She's more to lose if she is wrong.

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Re: I'm hoping Pat Brown is being sarcastic here :)

Post by ChippyM on 14.06.14 22:41

@aiyoyo wrote:
@ChippyM wrote:

It's not spoiling my day because although, I genuinley think Pat Brown and many of us here want justice for a child that was let down terribly by certain people and that should unite us -  we don't all agree with whats going on with Operation Grange and  we are not a brainless homogenised lump.

I most certainly do not think I have mud for brain, never mind homogenised.
But I do think she's lost the plot being led merrily down the garden path by the UK and Portugal media.

Either she is wrong or I am wrong.  She's more to lose if she is wrong.

Well, we'll see. or maybe we won't.....from what I've gathered from the learned people on here the court case could take months. I hope it won't... but it could.   This is a long drawn out game, that's for sure.

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Re: I'm hoping Pat Brown is being sarcastic here :)

Post by missmar1 on 14.06.14 22:59

@aiyoyo wrote:
@ChippyM wrote:

It's not spoiling my day because although, I genuinley think Pat Brown and many of us here want justice for a child that was let down terribly by certain people and that should unite us -  we don't all agree with whats going on with Operation Grange and  we are not a brainless homogenised lump.

I most certainly do not think I have mud for brain, never mind homogenised.
But I do think she's lost the plot being led merrily down the garden path by the UK and Portugal media.

Either she is wrong or I am wrong.  She's more to lose if she is wrong.

It hasn't spoiled my day either because I think PB is genuinely concerned about the way this case has unfolded recently ( The big dig show) and is only voicing her opinion  -  I wouldn't dream of being disrespectful towards her for simply voicing what others also think about recent events.....in the old days she would have been shot for bringing bad news  !   I just hope you have got it right aiyoyo and that she has got it wrong  - very wrong - very very wrong !!!!

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Re: I'm hoping Pat Brown is being sarcastic here :)

Post by HelenMeg on 14.06.14 22:59

@canada12 wrote:This recent work is part of ensuring that all lines of enquiry are progressed in a systematic manner and covers just the one hypothesis that she was killed and buried locally.

My take on this is that there are two parts to the one hypothesis:

1. She was killed and
2. She was buried locally.

There are other hypotheses which are still being considered, including:
1. She was killed and
2. She was not buried locally.
I agree with you.  I also think that whatever SY do or say, they can be interpreted in numerous ways and our interpretation depends on how we are feeling.  I really dont think SY are trying to influence the libel case at all.
We are all on this rollercoaster ride hoping for justice and we are analysing every statement and inferring things left right and center. Its natural after all this time as we are fed up, frustrated, concerned for Amaral, justice etc etc . Also we are only privvy to the tip of the iceberg in terms of SY's investigation.  Of course they cannot be looking for a live Maddie -but I dont blame them if they dont state  ' M is dead.' They do what any of us would do as an investigative team - 'we are looking at the possibility of death in this case'.   So I agree with Canada 12 - this has been a systematic if fruitless (and I'm sur ethey knew it would be fruitless - )  part of the investigation.

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Re: I'm hoping Pat Brown is being sarcastic here :)

Post by ChippyM on 14.06.14 23:02

@missmar1 wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@ChippyM wrote:

It's not spoiling my day because although, I genuinley think Pat Brown and many of us here want justice for a child that was let down terribly by certain people and that should unite us -  we don't all agree with whats going on with Operation Grange and  we are not a brainless homogenised lump.

I most certainly do not think I have mud for brain, never mind homogenised.
But I do think she's lost the plot being led merrily down the garden path by the UK and Portugal media.

Either she is wrong or I am wrong.  She's more to lose if she is wrong.

It hasn't spoiled my day either because I think PB is genuinely concerned about the way this case has unfolded recently ( The big dig show) and is only voicing her opinion  -  I wouldn't dream of being disrespectful towards her for simply voicing what others also think about recent events.....in the old days she would have been shot for bringing bad news  !   I just hope she has got it wrong  - very wrong - very very wrong !!!!

No, I would not want to be disrepectful but I question the placing of some opinions above others, that's all.

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Re: I'm hoping Pat Brown is being sarcastic here :)

Post by suzyjohnson on 14.06.14 23:10

@sofieellis wrote:when I read this article, I thought that anyone who was unfamiliar with Pat's work, could easily misinterpret the meaning. Sarcasm is pretty dangerous when you're trying to get a message out.

I agree with you sofieellis

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Re: I'm hoping Pat Brown is being sarcastic here :)

Post by missmar1 on 14.06.14 23:13

@HelenMeg wrote:
@canada12 wrote:This recent work is part of ensuring that all lines of enquiry are progressed in a systematic manner and covers just the one hypothesis that she was killed and buried locally.

My take on this is that there are two parts to the one hypothesis:

1. She was killed and
2. She was buried locally.

There are other hypotheses which are still being considered, including:
1. She was killed and
2. She was not buried locally.
I agree with you.  I also think that whatever SY do or say, they can be interpreted in numerous ways and our interpretation depends on how we are feeling.  I really dont think SY are trying to influence the libel case at all.
We are all on this rollercoaster ride hoping for justice and we are analysing every statement and inferring things left right and center. Its natural after all this time as we are fed up, frustrated, concerned for Amaral, justice etc etc . Also we are only privvy to the tip of the iceberg in terms of SY's investigation.  Of course they cannot be looking for a live Maddie -but I dont blame them if they dont state  ' M is dead.' They do what any of us would do as an investigative team - 'we are looking at the possibility of death in this case'.   So I agree with Canada 12 - this has been a systematic if fruitless (and I'm sur ethey knew it would be fruitless - )  part of the investigation.


It's a pity HelenMeg  that the SY report came just in time for the Mccann's to be able to repeat at the libel trial that they believe Madeleine could still
 be alive .......but hang on a sec,  shouldn't they now sue SY for harming the search for a live Madeleine who is still findable , but, due to the digs for a dead body,, the Mccann's could claim the public will now stop looking for her ?

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Re: I'm hoping Pat Brown is being sarcastic here :)

Post by Woofer on 14.06.14 23:15

It does wind me up sometimes when all the general public get to hear is what the media spurt out.  I can understand Pat getting frustrated and cynical.  In the USA everything is more open and libel laws not so harsh, so it probably makes her freak out when she reads the UK press.

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Re: I'm hoping Pat Brown is being sarcastic here :)

Post by missmar1 on 14.06.14 23:28

@ChippyM wrote:
@missmar1 wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@ChippyM wrote:

It's not spoiling my day because although, I genuinley think Pat Brown and many of us here want justice for a child that was let down terribly by certain people and that should unite us -  we don't all agree with whats going on with Operation Grange and  we are not a brainless homogenised lump.

I most certainly do not think I have mud for brain, never mind homogenised.
But I do think she's lost the plot being led merrily down the garden path by the UK and Portugal media.

Either she is wrong or I am wrong.  She's more to lose if she is wrong.

It hasn't spoiled my day either because I think PB is genuinely concerned about the way this case has unfolded recently ( The big dig show) and is only voicing her opinion  -  I wouldn't dream of being disrespectful towards her for simply voicing what others also think about recent events.....in the old days she would have been shot for bringing bad news  !   I just hope she has got it wrong  - very wrong - very very wrong !!!!

No, I would not want to be disrepectful but I question the placing of some opinions above others, that's all.


I understand what you are saying ChippyM ...... hopefully she is wrong in her opinion about the outcome of this case.

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