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McCanns to appear in libel trial on Monday 16 June

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Re: McCanns to appear in libel trial on Monday 16 June

Post by Silver Shuffle on 13.06.14 11:10

@Tangled Web wrote:
@Silver Shuffle wrote:
@Tangled Web wrote:
@Silver Shuffle wrote:After seeing hope come and go in the justice for Madeleine, I really do now think that GA is going to lose the trial. After all this "digging" saga, to say that MBM may still be alive. There is no more hope for justice...jmo  sad

But haven't SY said they are working on the theory that she was killed and buried locally? There doesn't seem to be any belief that she is alive now.
Yes, but they found nothing.

That remains to be seen but the point is that the Portuguese police believe MM is (sadly) dead and so do the British police. I don't see how the 'digging saga' was to say MBM may still be alive. In fact, it's the opposite. They are looking for a body and must have evidence to support this.

I really do hope you are right, I just can't imagine K & G would turn up at the trial if they weren't very sure of victory We've seen it for so many years so far  sad .

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Re: McCanns to appear in libel trial on Monday 16 June

Post by ChippyM on 13.06.14 11:18

@canada12 wrote:I think whether or not the McCanns show up in Portugal on Monday will depend very heavily upon whether the results of the forensics tests on the objects dug up around PDL are released by then.

I can't see why they would release the results of forensics, they're under no obligation to do so and it would make no sense to reveal small trickles of evidence before they've finished their entire investigation.

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Re: McCanns to appear in libel trial on Monday 16 June

Post by Cristobell on 13.06.14 11:21

@Tangled Web wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:We'll see IF they turn up in Lisbon next Monday. This quote in the Daily Mail, made me doubt it:

Their lawyer Isabel Duarte said: “I’m hopeful both of them will be able to make it.”

I saw this too and thought the same. The Daily Star says they are 'moving mountains' to attend, but in McSpeak this will probably mean the opposite. They're probably doing all they can to get out of going! However, the media are very cleverly forcing them into it  titter and how refreshing to actual see details of the libel trial in our news. The Times They Are a-changin'. IMO.
Yes, the media do seem to be putting them on the spot!

I wonder if we should run a book on why they won't turn up on Monday. 

10/1           Gerry has a tummy bug
2/1             Kate too distressed
1000/1       They have been arrested

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Re: McCanns to appear in libel trial on Monday 16 June

Post by ChippyM on 13.06.14 11:30

@Cristobell wrote:
@Tangled Web wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:We'll see IF they turn up in Lisbon next Monday. This quote in the Daily Mail, made me doubt it:

Their lawyer Isabel Duarte said: “I’m hopeful both of them will be able to make it.”

I saw this too and thought the same. The Daily Star says they are 'moving mountains' to attend, but in McSpeak this will probably mean the opposite. They're probably doing all they can to get out of going! However, the media are very cleverly forcing them into it  titter and how refreshing to actual see details of the libel trial in our news. The Times They Are a-changin'. IMO.
Yes, the media do seem to be putting them on the spot!

I wonder if we should run a book on why they won't turn up on Monday. 

10/1           Gerry has a tummy bug
2/1             Kate too distressed
1000/1       They have been arrested

 big grin   I'd be willing to put 50p on the last one! 

Maybe another one needs adding 'advised not to go'.

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Re: McCanns to appear in libel trial on Monday 16 June

Post by Dr What on 13.06.14 11:53

My guess would be that one of them, probably Gerry, will turn up.The other will remain at home.

That way, there will always be one of them away from any Portuguese police clutches at any given time.

At least until such time if and when they are both formally 'requested' to return to Portugal!

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Re: McCanns to appear in libel trial on Monday 16 June

Post by bobbin on 13.06.14 11:59

@Dr What wrote:My guess would be that one of them, probably Gerry, will turn up.The other will remain at home.

That way, there will always be one of them away from any Portuguese police clutches at any given time.

At least until such time if and when they are both formally 'requested' to return to Portugal!
The Kudos would be very fairly evened out though, relative to 'investigative input' if Portugal arrested one and the UK arrested the other, on the same date......

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Re: McCanns to appear in libel trial on Monday 16 June

Post by AndyB on 13.06.14 12:02

@Cristobell wrote:
I wonder if we should run a book on why they won't turn up on Monday. 

10/1           Gerry has a tummy bug
2/1             Kate too distressed
1000/1       They have been arrested
I'll have £50 on tummy bug, £250 on too distressed and 50p on arrested. You owe me £199.50 :-)

There's also the option of "we've been advised to stay away"

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Re: McCanns to appear in libel trial on Monday 16 June

Post by fossey on 13.06.14 12:06

@AndyB wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
I wonder if we should run a book on why they won't turn up on Monday. 

10/1           Gerry has a tummy bug
2/1             Kate too distressed
1000/1       They have been arrested
I'll have £50 on tummy bug, £250 on too distressed and 50p on arrested. You owe me £199.50 :-)

There's also the option of "we've been advised to stay away"
The bookies are pricing up "we've been advised to stay away" at odds of 1/100.

Absolute banker hence the short odds.

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Re: McCanns to appear in libel trial on Monday 16 June

Post by Cristobell on 13.06.14 12:06

@Silver Shuffle wrote:
@Tangled Web wrote:
@Silver Shuffle wrote:
@Tangled Web wrote:
@Silver Shuffle wrote:After seeing hope come and go in the justice for Madeleine, I really do now think that GA is going to lose the trial. After all this "digging" saga, to say that MBM may still be alive. There is no more hope for justice...jmo  sad

But haven't SY said they are working on the theory that she was killed and buried locally? There doesn't seem to be any belief that she is alive now.
Yes, but they found nothing.

That remains to be seen but the point is that the Portuguese police believe MM is (sadly) dead and so do the British police. I don't see how the 'digging saga' was to say MBM may still be alive. In fact, it's the opposite. They are looking for a body and must have evidence to support this.

I really do hope you are right, I just can't imagine K & G would turn up at the trial if they weren't very sure of victory We've seen it for so many years so far  sad .
The whole trial has been a car crash for the McCanns Silver, they spectacularly failed to make a case for compensation as they had no professionally qualified expert to support their claim.  In addition, they desperately wanted to settle, a full blown trial was never on the agenda.  They hoped Goncalo, his publishers and the makers of the documentary, would simply hand over the cash, as their English victims did, and when that failed, they even offered to settle in the defendants' favour.   Kudos to Goncalo and his fellow defendants in standing firm and insisting on their day in court.  

The McCanns may truly believe they can turn the tide by appearing in person and pleading their case.  I remember Clarence once saying that Kate and Gerry needed to speak to the PM or a senior politician, the inference being that the powerful oratory of the starry pair could persuade even the most sceptical.  This may be the reasoning behind their anticipated trip to Lisbon.  They are smart, attractive, middle class and erudite, not only that they are regular church goers and they raise funds for charity.  For many, that is enough to declare them 100% innocent. Only chavs kill their kids and stage abductions.  In class conscious UK, their 'niceness' has kept them above suspicion, and in the witness box, Kate may come across as positively fragrant. As for Gerry, lets hope he doesn't patronise the Judge for being female and non British, but I wouldn't bet it.

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Re: McCanns to appear in libel trial on Monday 16 June

Post by Cristobell on 13.06.14 12:12

@fossey wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
I wonder if we should run a book on why they won't turn up on Monday. 

10/1           Gerry has a tummy bug
2/1             Kate too distressed
1000/1       They have been arrested
I'll have £50 on tummy bug, £250 on too distressed and 50p on arrested. You owe me £199.50 :-)

There's also the option of "we've been advised to stay away"
The bookies are pricing up "we've been advised to stay away" at odds of 1/100.

Absolute banker hence the short odds.
Yeh, that needs adding to top the list! lol.

1/100         'We've been advised to stay away'
2/1            Kate too distressed
10/1          Gerry has a tummy bug
1000/1       They have been arrested

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Re: McCanns to appear in libel trial on Monday 16 June

Post by MRNOODLES on 13.06.14 12:48

@Cristobell wrote:
@fossey wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
I wonder if we should run a book on why they won't turn up on Monday. 

10/1           Gerry has a tummy bug
2/1             Kate too distressed
1000/1       They have been arrested
I'll have £50 on tummy bug, £250 on too distressed and 50p on arrested. You owe me £199.50 :-)

There's also the option of "we've been advised to stay away"
The bookies are pricing up "we've been advised to stay away" at odds of 1/100.

Absolute banker hence the short odds.
Yeh, that needs adding to top the list! lol.

1/100         'We've been advised to stay away'
2/1            Kate too distressed
10/1          Gerry has a tummy bug
1000/1       They have been arrested

Can I have a fiver on the mountains couldn't be moved?

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Re: McCanns to appear in libel trial on Monday 16 June

Post by aiyoyo on 13.06.14 12:56

@aquila wrote:from today's DM - even a quote from Clarrie

'It reinforces our belief that she could be alive': Madeleine McCann's parents are positive after no evidence is found of her death so far in new investigation

  • Detectives have finished eight-day search around Praia da Luz, Portugal
  • Kate and Gerry McCann say they still believe their child could still be alive
  • 'We're encouraged that despite the intensive searches, no trace of Madeleine has been found and this reinforces our belief she could still be alive'
  • Couple are flying to Portugal for libel case of disgraced Portuguese detective
  • Police chief Goncalo Amaral claimed the couple murdered their daughter
  • Madeleine, three, from Rothley, Leicestershire, vanished during 2007 holiday


The massive search operation would not have gone unheard nor the implications of it gone unnoticed by the Judge.
Have no doubt "We're encouraged that despite the intensive searches, no trace of Madeleine has been found and this reinforces our belief she could still be alive" will be repeated in their statement in Court.

I predict their statements would just be emotional ones (and not factual ones) that will be of absolutely no merits of legal value for the case. The facts were left to, and covered by their lawyer - that's the whole point of engaging lawyer ie for their expertise.

They must be dead desperate and determined to have the last say that they took the unusual step of appealing against the judge's rejection decision. Their statements had better bear some value useful to help their case, else it would be their own goal as they cannot attribute the lost to not given the chance to speak.

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Re: McCanns to appear in libel trial on Monday 16 June

Post by jeanmonroe on 13.06.14 13:01

@Dr What wrote:My guess would be that one of them, probably Gerry, will turn up.The other will remain at home.

That way, there will always be one of them away from any Portuguese police clutches at any given time.

At least until such time if and when they are both formally 'requested' to return to Portugal!

How do we know they have NOT been formally 'requested' to return to Portugal? (as they keep telling the 'gullies' that they will, at the drop of a hat, anytime, to help investigation, but never quite get around to doing it)

Maybe it's the UK 'side' that has blocked ( X number of) ILOR's from the Portuguese Authorities.

SY like to tell us how many of their ILOR's have been 'refused' but are a bit more coy about how many Portuguese ILOR's may have been 'refused' by the UK.

ILOR's are NOT one way traffic!

But all will be 'revealed' in the next tranche of PJ files. (2nd investigation)

Then we'll see who has, or has not, been fully cooperating, with investigations.

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Re: McCanns to appear in libel trial on Monday 16 June

Post by joyce1938 on 13.06.14 13:05

Yes don't let us forget that sy had their case watched by the pj , but I read pj have a different case to be looked at too ,not both speaking from same page I think . So keep the faith and lets hope it makes more sense than the last wasted money  of last week .joyce1938

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Re: McCanns to appear in libel trial on Monday 16 June

Post by jeanmonroe on 13.06.14 13:10

•Police chief Goncalo Amaral claimed the couple murdered their daughter
-----------------------------------------------------
Couple flying to Portugal on Monday for libel case of disgraced Portuguese detective Goncalo Amaral who claimed the couple murdered their daughter


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2656222/It-reinforces-belief-alive-Madeleine-McCanns-parents-positive-no-evidence-death-far-new-investigation.html#ixzz34WJtXXg8
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


NOW, THAT IS SERIOUS 'LIBEL'
------------------------------------------

He has NEVER 'claimed' THAT

He has only EVER said 'died in 5A, possibly accidentally"

GA should SUE the Daily Mail...........................TODAY.

SS, if needed.

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Re: McCanns to appear in libel trial on Monday 16 June

Post by aiyoyo on 13.06.14 13:13

@Monty Heck wrote:Who's to say the McCs wouldn't or couldn't turn a loss to their advantage?  There would be a clamour for tv interviews and press exclusives as the media queue up to pay handsomely to wring every last drop of pathos from this further tragedy.  Could the good folks of Britain stand back and see the parents and siblings of "our Maddie" beggared by those rotten and corrupt foreign courts?   Who knows, we could see Fighting Fund II save G & K from homelessness rise from the ashes if this trial fails to deliver.

The only one possible thing they stand a chance of turning by their appearance is to spin the media.
Be prepared for Gerry to go bearing multiple memorized-by-heart scripts - one script to criticise Portuguese media; and another script ready to read out to UK media meant for uk audiences.

Someone of his personality trait would have his court script prepared then learn over and over until he memorized by heart before he delivers it in court, to avoid being caught foot in mouth than if he were to give statement spontaneously.

Mr and Mrs will each be given their turn separately to speak so hands holding anatomy groping for morale boosting is out of question.

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Re: McCanns to appear in libel trial on Monday 16 June

Post by plebgate on 13.06.14 13:16

Isn't it the case that the judge will be allowed to put questions after any statements made in court?

Oh errrrrr.

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Very restrained article from Portugalresident

Post by PeterMac on 13.06.14 13:18

http://portugalresident.com/mccanns-return-to-portugal-to-face-judge-on-monday
Posted by jomad on June 13, 2014
McCanns return to Portugal to face judge on Monday

Kate and Gerry McCann will be back in Portugal on Monday, following the high-profile but reportedly fruitless police search that punctuated life in Praia da Luz seven years after their daughter Madeleine disappeared. But the two doctors are not expected in the Algarve. They will be flying into Lisbon where they are due to give evidence in the last leg of the long-running civil action which they instigated against former police inspector Gonçalo Amaral.
The McCanns are suing Amaral - the detective in charge of the original investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance - for over a €1 million in damages.
Their defamation action centres on the book he wrote: The Truth of the Lie, in which he contended that their daughter was not abducted from apartment 5a in the Ocean Club all those years ago, but that instead she died by accident, and her body was disposed of.
It was a theory, explained the policeman with 26 years in the force and a degree in law. A theory based on information compiled in the criminal investigation.

But Madeleine’s parents claim the Truth of the Lie not only brought them added grief and heartbreak, it hampered the search for their missing daughter.
They originally succeeded in blocking the sale of Amaral’s book, but the court decision was later overruled - and the Truth of the Lie is now freely available over the Internet and has been translated into a number of languages.
When it first came out, the book was sold through Correio da Manhã newspaper.

In the UK however, it is not for sale - neither was the documentary, based on the book, ever screened there.

Up until recently, very few UK-based newspapers alluded to the groundswell of alternative opinions on the case. This all changed during the Met’s controversial swoop on Praia da Luz at the beginning of the month. Reporters like Sky’s Kay Burley wrote how “conspiracy theorists believe it’s only a matter of time before the McCanns are held culpable for their daughter’s disappearance” - while the Telegraph reported on the graffiti daubed on a wall on the last day of the search, proclaiming the British police to be “estupidos” as well as “alleging they (the McCanns) were responsible” for their daughter’s “disappearance”.

The Telegraph chose its words carefully, as the graffiti had in fact been a great deal more explicit.

Meantime, everyone’s eyes are focused now on the court hearing due to open at the Palácio de Justiça on Monday.
According to the Daily Mirror, the McCanns “are hopeful they will win the case”.
“The poisonous lies said against Kate and Gerry have caused them great distress and have hindered the search for Madeleine”, said the Mirror.
Operation Grange, the investigation opened by the Met in 2011 - specifically to delve into the seven year mystery - is so far reported to have spent 10 million euros.


____________________


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Re: McCanns to appear in libel trial on Monday 16 June

Post by Mirage on 13.06.14 13:22

@AndyB wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
I wonder if we should run a book on why they won't turn up on Monday. 

10/1           Gerry has a tummy bug
2/1             Kate too distressed
1000/1       They have been arrested
I'll have £50 on tummy bug, £250 on too distressed and 50p on arrested. You owe me £199.50 :-)

There's also the option of "we've been advised to stay away"

5/1 Their passports are caught up in the delays.

____________________
Kate McCann: "It's too 'ot. Give 'im a minute."

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Re: McCanns to appear in libel trial on Monday 16 June

Post by Cristobell on 13.06.14 13:22

@MRNOODLES wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
@fossey wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
I wonder if we should run a book on why they won't turn up on Monday. 

10/1           Gerry has a tummy bug
2/1             Kate too distressed
1000/1       They have been arrested
I'll have £50 on tummy bug, £250 on too distressed and 50p on arrested. You owe me £199.50 :-)

There's also the option of "we've been advised to stay away"
The bookies are pricing up "we've been advised to stay away" at odds of 1/100.

Absolute banker hence the short odds.
Yeh, that needs adding to top the list! lol.

1/100         'We've been advised to stay away'
2/1            Kate too distressed
10/1          Gerry has a tummy bug
1000/1       They have been arrested

Can I have a fiver on the mountains couldn't be moved?
You can, but I might have to do a moolight flit, I already owe Andy £200 quid! Sad

It would be a major publicity coup for them if they do appear in Lisbon and return to the UK 'unarrested'.  The words 'told you so' would dominate the fb page forever more.  See, we are not suspects.  But even if they did, I wouldn't read too much into it, it might just be that their chances of arrest are no different in Portugal to the UK - and the stakes are desperately high, money is involved (not the mortal remains of their daughter) and losing this trial will ruin them.  Apart from the fact that they will have no money to launch further libel actions, the 'gag' will be removed from Goncalo's book and the media will have free rein to publish whatever they want.  Greedy libel claims have led to the downfall of many an arrogant twit.

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Re: McCanns to appear in libel trial on Monday 16 June

Post by jhansigirl on 13.06.14 13:23

Unable to get a babysitter for the twins - 20/1

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Re: McCanns to appear in libel trial on Monday 16 June

Post by Cristobell on 13.06.14 13:25

@aiyoyo wrote:
@Monty Heck wrote:Who's to say the McCs wouldn't or couldn't turn a loss to their advantage?  There would be a clamour for tv interviews and press exclusives as the media queue up to pay handsomely to wring every last drop of pathos from this further tragedy.  Could the good folks of Britain stand back and see the parents and siblings of "our Maddie" beggared by those rotten and corrupt foreign courts?   Who knows, we could see Fighting Fund II save G & K from homelessness rise from the ashes if this trial fails to deliver.

The only one possible thing they stand a chance of turning by their appearance is to spin the media.
Be prepared for Gerry to go bearing multiple memorized-by-heart scripts - one script to criticise Portuguese media; and another script ready to read out to UK media meant for uk audiences.

Someone of his personality trait would have his court script prepared then learn over and over until he memorized by heart before he delivers it in court, to avoid being caught foot in mouth than if he were to give statement spontaneously.  

Mr and Mrs will each be given their turn separately to speak so hands holding anatomy groping for morale boosting is out of question.  
Ahh, but he is not good under pressure.  He thought he could take on Jeremy Paxman, but he was reduced to a gibbering heap. 

In fairness, he was good at the Leveson Enquiry, but then I felt Leveson did all but donate to their Fund, maybe he did.

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Re: McCanns to appear in libel trial on Monday 16 June

Post by aiyoyo on 13.06.14 13:26

@petunia wrote:didn't Dr Goncalo amaral also ask to speak? surly if the mac's have been given permission then so has he.

I think he did. When they applied to speak, defence side did too, but Judge rejected the applications from both sides.

Gerry, and apparently Kate too (according to Jerry lawton's tweets) appealed against Judge's decision and won the appeal.  I wonder who JL's source might be.

An analogy of their preemptive move is equivalent to that of Oscar Pistorius - introducing psychiatrist's evidence before appeal or mitigating stage, resulting in own goal, and we know the consequential effect of that in OP case.  IMO Mr and Mrs preemptive action will backfire against them.

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Re: McCanns to appear in libel trial on Monday 16 June

Post by plebgate on 13.06.14 13:27

What would make me laugh on Monday would be to see Our Tony being filmed entering the Pt. court to listen to and observe all that takes place.  titter

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Re: McCanns to appear in libel trial on Monday 16 June

Post by sombrero on 13.06.14 13:29

My own take on this is that the reason the Judge has made this decision is because the prospect of an Appeal has to be considered.  Therefore the Judge would want to be seen as totally fair to GM and KM.  

As for the decision often in a court case the court will much prefer one parties evidence over another.

GM and KM nightmare scenario is that the Judge actually states preference for the opinion of GA in that MM died in 5a and that the parents staged an "abduction".  That would be a very bold verdict but there will have to be detailed reasons in the decision.

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