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The World Cup 2014 thread

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Re: The World Cup 2014 thread

Post by HelenMeg on 20.06.14 22:28

@PeterMac wrote:
@Miraflores wrote:
Costa Rica is in C America.
And has a population of just over 4 million.
Half that of London
Its a sad, sad situation  and its getting more and more absurd

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Re: The World Cup 2014 thread

Post by PeterMac on 20.06.14 23:16

@HelenMeg wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@Miraflores wrote:
Costa Rica is in C America.
And has a population of just over 4 million.
Half that of London
Its a sad, sad situation  and its getting more and more absurd

Why do you say it is Sad ?
Why should England, which operates a League which buys the best talent across the globe but produces none of its own
suddenly think that it can compete at international level ?
Why should England think that it can compete in the international sphere at anything,   War, Invasions, Control of the Seas . . .

England is a small part of a small island off the north western coast of a small part of a small continent.
It achieved world domination by inventing important things.  
Like the Gatling Gun
And the Regiment
And the Chain of Command
And the Stiff Upper Lip
And the Public School System.

There was also the small matter of the Industrial revolution, which was entirely British, - until the rest of the world cashed in on it . . .

Lecture follows

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Re: The World Cup 2014 thread

Post by tigger on 21.06.14 5:11

@PeterMac

Cricket, I understand, was invented by the British, golf too I believe.

Possibly a number of other sports. However the status of amateurs, both in sports and in other subjects, has always been higher compared   to the status of  amateurs in most other countries.

E.g. An amateur in botany, who's spent all his spare time researching buttercups will not be dismissed out of hand by a botanist with a number of degrees to his name.
This is not the Germanic world view where to be taken seriously one needs to follow the required education.

Sports of any kind were  almost exclusively for amateurs, possibly around the end of WWII this changed and the rest of the world rather unsportingly  started training professionally  in the sports invented  in the UK. At least that's what I've been told.

The politics of sport possibly took on a new importance with the olympic games in Germany in the thirties.
By the fifties the Olympics were dominated by the  East Bloc countries.

So as I see it the very fact that being good at sports in the UK was long seen as an individual achievement where it was optional  how much you trained, the amateur status was seen as honorable.
Training to the exclusion of anything else would in fact be seen as 'unsporting' , an unequal contest.

Anyway that's my take on it and I'm also convinced that England would probably do much better if there were no politics involved in choosing a national team. I don't really know much about football, but the enthusiasm and cohesion of a real team seem to be missing imo.

I stand to be corrected after this sermon...

(Re inventions - Jet engine, vertical take-off(Harrier)' Hoovercraft etc). Invented in UK, produced elsewhere so the products had to be bought at a high price - usually from the US. )

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Re: The World Cup 2014 thread

Post by Shibboleth on 21.06.14 7:21

My husband will be pleased, he will be permitted to buy his England top now.  It is half-price.

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Re: The World Cup 2014 thread

Post by Guest on 21.06.14 11:39

I thought they'd be given away for nothing by now!

By the way, welcome back Shibboleth.

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Re: The World Cup 2014 thread

Post by Shibboleth on 21.06.14 15:07

Thank you.  I will be back in England until November.  After that, we do not know!  It depends how we find work, I also now have another child so I remain a very busy person.

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Re: The World Cup 2014 thread

Post by bobbin on 21.06.14 15:10

@Shibboleth wrote:Thank you.  I will be back in England until November.  After that, we do not know!  It depends how we find work, I also now have another child so I remain a very busy person.
Also welcome back Shibboleth. Wondered where you had gone. Glad to see your reason for not posting might be your new child. Enjoy your little ones.  thumbsup

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Re: The World Cup 2014 thread

Post by Tony Bennett on 21.06.14 18:03

@PeterMac wrote:
There was also the small matter of the Industrial revolution, which was entirely British - until the rest of the world cashed in on it...

Lecture follows
And the reason Britain had the industrial revolution rather than anywhere else in the world or Europe was because, in 1688, Britain finally threw off the yoke of Roman Catholic oppression.

The Catholic, Stuart monarchy had been restored in 1660, and in the three short years of the reign of James II (1685-1688), he swept away all Protestants from any positions of power in a brutal wave of mass sackings - replacing them, of course, with Roman Catholics.

To the rescue came William of Orange. With him on the throne of England as William III, the 'Glorious Revolution' of 1688 occurred. The Bill of Rights - still current - was passed in early 1689, restoring ancient English freedoms long suppressed by Roman Catholic totalitarianism.

England was, in short, liberated. Most Scots saw the wisdom of union with England and joined us 18 years later in 1707, throwing off their long association with Roman Catholicism and the French. As in:    

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

QUOTE


Economic History Society

THE GLORIOUS REVOLUTION AND THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION: HOW CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGE IS KEY TO ECONOMIC GROWTH

Date: 01 Jan 2009

Constitutions that enfranchise business lobbies assist rather than hinder economic growth. Business lobbies use national representative institutions to regulate and deregulate markets, both of which assist national economic growth.

These are the conclusions of new research by Dr William Pettigrew, which finds that the ‘Glorious Revolution’ of 1688 provided the political framework for the Industrial Revolution and British global supremacy up to the 19th century.

The study has policy implications for developing economies: Constitutions that empower economic interest groups will assist sustainable economic development.

In England, after the Glorious Revolution of 1688, a representative institution, Parliament, replaced the more unilateral ‘monarch and council’ as the decision-making body that regulated the English economy.

Over the next century, and before the Industrial Revolution, the English economy grew by about 200% at a time when the national population grew by less than 60%.

The supremacy of Parliament within the English constitution helps explain this growth. Parliament provided a platform for merchant interest groups (increasingly in the provinces) to assert their interests via petitions in a number of ways…


++++++++++++++

@ tigger

England also invented football and rugby football. As coincidence would have it, today for the first time in my life I visited Magdalen Laver church, just a few miles from Harlow. There William Webb Ellis, the founder of rugby football, is buried, his memory regularly being commemorated by the Rugby Football Union. A teacher at Rugby public school, he played football, and one day decided to run with the ball instead of kicking it.

Today he would be given a red card for this.

But, instead, someone said: 'Hey, let's have another game where you're allowed to run with the ball'. And so rugby football was born

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Re: The World Cup 2014 thread

Post by Lioned on 21.06.14 20:23

Englands failure to perform well on the World stage is not as simple as saying 'too many foreign players' !

Have a look at the German Bunderslige where there are plenty of foreign players,around 45% is the latest figure compared to England which is around 60%.

So that is clearly not the only reason but obviously is part of the cause if youngsters cant get a look in.

England has good young players,i am sure Andros Townsend would have made a big difference but sadly got injured.

England where not miles behind Italy and Uruguay,really not much in either game which could have gone either way.

Just the difference in one quality player and a bit of luck.

Look at how some of the other 'big' teams have failed to impress so far.Today Argentina where outplayed by Iran,again the difference cropped up in the 91st minute in the quality finish by Messi.

So far the only teams to look that much better than England are Germany and maybe Holland and France.

We have seen teams of average quality out perform the higher ranked teams because they have been well managed/motivated and played as a team.Costa Rica,Iran today,Australia played well above their position,USA.

England have been badly managed,Rooney was out of position and out of form,that and some poor defending against Suarez and Balotelli cost us both games.

Germany look good but will have a tough game against Ghana tonight,Holland and France also look good so far.

Most of the others are really not much better than England.

Many English league teams still invest heavily in youth programmes and have many scouts looking for home grown talent.

We cannot blame the influx of foreign players on Englands failure,thats an easy excuse that doesnt wash away poor management selection and motivation.

We are short of a good quality striker and a quality central defender and a play maker.Thats three players that would turn us into a World class team.

Not much to ask really.


Eta.  This article gives the information on all major leagues and foreign players/demographics.There is not a compelling case to be made imo that foreign players is the problem.


http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2013/01/21/new-research-foreign-players-at-record-levels-across-european-football-210102/

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Re: The World Cup 2014 thread

Post by PeterMac on 21.06.14 21:43

I am very grateful for your analysis.
It makes me even more thankful that I neither understand nor care about the Business (sorry - the Game !)

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Re: The World Cup 2014 thread

Post by Lioned on 21.06.14 22:54

And now the mighty Germany made to look quite ordinary by a well organised and hard working Ghana team,no star names and players that would mostly be in the lower English leagues.

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Re: The World Cup 2014 thread

Post by Lioned on 21.06.14 23:33

Just another point to think about.

We are seeing examples of 'lesser' teams outplaying their more technically qualified opponents.

This happens in our domestic cup competitions sometimes where the lower league team outmuscles the silky skills of the premier league team.

You cannot imagine Jackie Charlton or Nobby Stiles allowing Messi or Suarez to dance past them.Good old fashioned centre half or left back would give them a good dig early on to let them know whos boss.Something John Terry was quite good at actually.Our players are a bit soft,need toughening up.

Come to think of it Suarez knows a few tricks out of that book.

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Re: The World Cup 2014 thread

Post by cassius on 21.06.14 23:41

The England Football Team, the gift that keeps giving.

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Re: The World Cup 2014 thread

Post by BlueBag on 22.06.14 8:57

Brazil is too hot for playing proper football.

Where's the mud?

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Re: The World Cup 2014 thread

Post by aquila on 22.06.14 8:59

@BlueBag wrote:Brazil is too hot for playing proper football.

Where's the mud?
I was waiting for a familiar phrase from the pundits and England manager

"give 'em a minute, they're a bit 'ot".

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Re: The World Cup 2014 thread

Post by BlueBag on 22.06.14 9:02

We would be in with a chance here.


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Re: The World Cup 2014 thread

Post by Gaggzy on 23.06.14 1:56

@BlueBag wrote:We would be in with a chance here.


This reminds me of the Baseball Ground, Derby County's pitch in the 1970s.

And also the footy pitches I used to play at on a Sunday morning in the early 1980s. What's that bit of spikey green stuff in the foreground?

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Re: The World Cup 2014 thread

Post by fossey on 23.06.14 2:10

I'm sure that was my old School's football pitch. Mud looks the same anyway.

Glimmer of hope for any Portugal fans tonight. 

Although sadly it won't be enough for them to qualify. 6 Plus goals in their next game won't happen I'm afraid.

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Re: The World Cup 2014 thread

Post by PeterMac on 23.06.14 8:10

Looks like the Ullapool High School pitch ! !

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Re: The World Cup 2014 thread

Post by Tony Bennett on 23.06.14 8:41

@Lioned wrote:Something John Terry was quite good at actually.
He also scored a good number of headed goals for England, many from corner-kicks and free kicks.

As did Peter Crouch - also absent

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Re: The World Cup 2014 thread

Post by ultimaThule on 23.06.14 11:54

@PeterMac wrote:Looks like the Ullapool High School pitch ! !

Is this where uncle Phil's husband was first inspired to create his snuff swamp art?  sarcastic 

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Re: The World Cup 2014 thread

Post by BlueBag on 24.06.14 21:29

Suarez.... I mean... what???????????

Idiot.

Ban him for a long time.

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Re: The World Cup 2014 thread

Post by fossey on 24.06.14 21:33

@BlueBag wrote:Suarez.... I mean... what???????????

Idiot.

Ban him for a long time.
Shocking. Again.

Doesn't learn at all.

Needs a muzzle.

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Re: The World Cup 2014 thread

Post by notlongnow on 25.06.14 0:17

The cowards at fifa will do nothing.

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Re: The World Cup 2014 thread

Post by Guest on 25.06.14 0:25

Suarez is a psycho. He is definitely missing something upstairs,look forward to seeing him getting an appropriate ban.

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