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Madeleine McCann search digs up the haters and misguided conspiracy theorists

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Re: Madeleine McCann search digs up the haters and misguided conspiracy theorists

Post by Daryl Dixon on 09.06.14 8:20

@CynicAl wrote:
@Daryl Dixon wrote:The wardrobe, back of sofa etc may not be accurate as locations. Cadaver odour is airborne and could have pooled in a particular place due to air currents.

Cadaverine is a contact substance, no? A liquid seepage not a gas. A gas will attempt to fill any available space and dissipate. It does not 'pool' per se. My understanding is that the dogs are trained to locate cadaverine, rather than merely the gaseous 'whiff of death.'


Hello CynicAl. It's my understanding that Eddie indicated to airborne cadaverine in the apartment. Cadaverine is heavier than air and stays low to the ground but air currents will cause it to pool in corners or other places.

This is an extract from Mr Grime's verbal report

What we have to be able to understand in a situation such as this is in a hot climate with the apartment being closed down, the scent will build up in a particular area. If there isn't a scent source in here, i.e. a physical article where the scent is emitting from, any scent residue will collect in a particular place due to the air movement of the flat, the apartment and what I would say in this case is that there is enough scent in that area there for him to give me a bark indication but the source may not be in that cupboard, the source may well be in this room somewhere else but the air is actually pushing into that corner.

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Re: Madeleine McCann search digs up the haters and misguided conspiracy theorists

Post by juliet on 09.06.14 8:31

To me it's obvious that Kay Burley is attacking the McCanns and all they stand for. The "warm May evening" (not the 3rd then); the restaurant in the resort (not nearby);Kate not answering questions on lawyer's advice; the dogs marking a dead body in the flat and the car; the guilt of wrong doing smothering the parents; the waiting in the hope "nothing is found". I am surprised Kay Burley would be so on the ball - but she will have hugely angered and troubled the McCanns with this veey unusual piece. Think how journalists usually write...."agonised parents - useless PJ - dining in back garden -clutching at hope - brave Kate - always searching - fund worryingly low".

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Re: Madeleine McCann search digs up the haters and misguided conspiracy theorists

Post by aquila on 09.06.14 8:32

@Daryl Dixon wrote:
@CynicAl wrote:
@Daryl Dixon wrote:The wardrobe, back of sofa etc may not be accurate as locations. Cadaver odour is airborne and could have pooled in a particular place due to air currents.

Cadaverine is a contact substance, no? A liquid seepage not a gas. A gas will attempt to fill any available space and dissipate. It does not 'pool' per se. My understanding is that the dogs are trained to locate cadaverine, rather than merely the gaseous 'whiff of death.'


Hello CynicAl. It's my understanding that Eddie indicated to airborne cadaverine in the apartment. Cadaverine is heavier than air and stays low to the ground but air currents will cause it to pool in corners or other places.

This is an extract from Mr Grime's verbal report

What we have to be able to understand in a situation such as this is in a hot climate with the apartment being closed down, the scent will build up in a particular area. If there isn't a scent source in here, i.e. a physical article where the scent is emitting from, any scent residue will collect in a particular place due to the air movement of the flat, the apartment and what I would say in this case is that there is enough scent in that area there for him to give me a bark indication but the source may not be in that cupboard, the source may well be in this room somewhere else but the air is actually pushing into that corner.
Very interesting information but it doesn't alter the fact that the scent of cadaverine was present and alerted to and it doesn't alter the fact that according to the files no-one previously had died in the apartment.

The dogs smelt death. It can't be altered.

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Re: Madeleine McCann search digs up the haters and misguided conspiracy theorists

Post by rainbow-fairy on 09.06.14 8:37

Whatever the intention behind the article, the FB link had thousands of comments yesterday, and the apologist ones weren't getting many likes... 
I don't know if there'll be any whooshing going on there, but both I and many others posted links to mccannpjfiles, mccannfiles, Fb groups and they were certainly still there last time I looked. If even only a couple read them its better than nothing. 

It is quite sad that the 'pro' comments just seem to be along the lines of 'leave them alone, as if YOU are all perfect parents! Have you never made a mistake?' (As usual Maddie got a poor mention, if at all). 
Even sadder, some comments following the line of 'don't comment about this without knowing the FACTS! Hope she is with a family who wanted a child of their own' (yes, had to reply to that one! That the FACTS are freely available to read online, and sadly the EVRD dogs tell us that poor Maddie isn't with a family who wanted a child, nor anyone Sad )

Thinking more on the article itself, I haven't changed my opinion that it was a very cleverly worded piece, *but* was it done to assuage the likes of us and quite a growing band of doubters while at the same time appealing to the MSM-led sheeple who still accept whatever is fed to them on a spoon (papers don't lie, DO they? laughat)
Another poster mentioned hedging bets, and that it was a win-win. I agree. 
If, as we hope, the truth does come out, KB will be able to say 'I knew! I was telling you!' whilst covering her butt and if it doesn't, she can say 'I always said those who doubt are nasty haters! I said it!'

Yes, a definite win-win imo

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Re: Madeleine McCann search digs up the haters and misguided conspiracy theorists

Post by juliet on 09.06.14 8:38

The scent of death also pooled on the car key fob, Cuddlecat and Kate's pants of ganga...among other hugely incriminating places.

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Re: Madeleine McCann search digs up the haters and misguided conspiracy theorists

Post by rainbow-fairy on 09.06.14 8:43

@juliet wrote:To me it's obvious that Kay Burley is attacking the McCanns and all they stand for. The "warm May evening" (not the 3rd then); the restaurant in the resort (not nearby);Kate not answering questions on lawyer's advice; the dogs marking a dead body in the flat and the car; the guilt  of wrong doing smothering the parents; the waiting in the hope "nothing is found". I am surprised Kay Burley would be so on the ball - but she will have hugely angered and troubled the McCanns with this veey unusual piece. Think how journalists usually write...."agonised parents - useless PJ - dining in back garden -clutching at hope - brave Kate - always searching - fund worryingly low".
Absolutely agree juliet. No way was this a mistake. (And it was very surprising too!)

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Re: Madeleine McCann search digs up the haters and misguided conspiracy theorists

Post by PeterMac on 09.06.14 8:43

Well done Rainbow-Fairy
I don't know what to make of the article.
Sloppy journalism, or highly refined deadly accurate journalism ?
either way, as you observe, it has stirred things up and has brought up the dogs, distance to the restaurant, and so on.

Can someone make a bit thing of the "warm evening" and link it to the cold lunchtime and the Photo !

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Re: Madeleine McCann search digs up the haters and misguided conspiracy theorists

Post by rainbow-fairy on 09.06.14 8:49

@PeterMac wrote:Well done Rainbow-Fairy
I don't know what to make of the article.
Sloppy journalism, or highly refined deadly accurate journalism ?
either way, as you observe, it has stirred things up and has brought up the dogs, distance to the restaurant, and so on.

Can someone make a bit thing of the "warm evening" and link it to the cold lunchtime and the Photo !
Thank you PeterMac roses
I definitely err on the side of it was very clever journalism yes
Have you got the actual links for the weather and the photo? I'll certainly try to post them if you have them. 
(On a phone it takes forever to find and save each link)

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Re: Madeleine McCann search digs up the haters and misguided conspiracy theorists

Post by juliet on 09.06.14 8:54

I don't think Kay Burley is clever or switched on enough to have written this without a lot of help and nudges. Murdoch stirring again? I am certain he was behind Brooks' push for a new investigation. The McCanns WERE hacked. It stands to reason. But if Murdoch knows the truth (smothered?) when will he use it?

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Re: Madeleine McCann search digs up the haters and misguided conspiracy theorists

Post by tiny on 09.06.14 8:56

@juliet wrote:I don't think Kay Burley is clever or switched on enough to have written this without a lot of help and nudges. Murdoch stirring again? I am certain he was behind Brooks' push for a new investigation. The McCanns WERE hacked. It stands to reason. But if Murdoch knows the truth (smothered?) when will he use it?
Sooner rather than later Juliet.

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Re: Madeleine McCann search digs up the haters and misguided conspiracy theorists

Post by juliet on 09.06.14 9:01

Thank you rainbow-fairy. I agree it is unusually refined and pointed journalism (therefore someone cleverer than Burley behind it). It brought in everything the McCanns hope everyone has forgotten. It als stresses how guilty they are/must feel.

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Re: Madeleine McCann search digs up the haters and misguided conspiracy theorists

Post by Guest on 09.06.14 9:04

I can understand why some posters may want to believe Kay Burley is being terribly subtle and 'clever', but I have never in my life seen much evidence of either attribute from her. I tend to share Chris Bryant's view – he once famously described her on air as "a bit dim" after being on the receiving end of a particularly inept bit of interviewing from her.

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Re: Madeleine McCann search digs up the haters and misguided conspiracy theorists

Post by juliet on 09.06.14 9:07

I hope it is sooner Tiny. Apart from anything else Murdoch is about 85. He has been tinkering for a while now - Wendy Murphy's outburst, Henri Exton in the Sunday Times, etc.

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Simple solution

Post by woodforthetrees on 09.06.14 9:09

So the McCanns are fed up of all the haters hey?

Well, rather than worsen the situation, they could quite easily put all the conspiracy theories to rest by doing the following (publicly):

- Set foot on Portuguese soil again rather than hide of 'safe soil'

- Do the reconstruction

- Answer the 48 questions they refused to

- Take the lie detector tests they managed to avoid taking

- Gerry speak at the libel closing session

- Close down the find Madeleine website

The longer they avoid doing the above, the more 'hater's' will join the crowd after actually sitting up and reading the police evidence available.

They are digging bigger holes for themselves and again, being dug in the wrong locations

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Re: Madeleine McCann search digs up the haters and misguided conspiracy theorists

Post by canada12 on 09.06.14 9:14

I still believe she knew exactly what she was writing.

If you look at her Twitterfeed, you can see why. (I posted this before, a number of pages back, but it's worth repeating again).

Here's the sequence of tweets:

Kay Burley @KayBurley · 18h
Do the McCanns deserve such Twitter vitriol and who I think is a spoilt, ignorant little brat in tomorrow's @thesundaypeople

To which someone responded:
Kieron Ward ‏@kie9ward 18h
@KayBurley @thesundaypeople I am (obviously) totally against any vitriol but there do seem to be some unaddressed McCann Qs. Agree or not?

To which KB responded:
@KayBurley
@kie9ward @thesundaypeople read my article and tell me what you think ;-)

It's absolutely clear to me from KB's reply that she knew exactly what she was doing in that article, especially as she followed it with a ;-) emoticon, which is a winking eye.

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Re: Madeleine McCann search digs up the haters and misguided conspiracy theorists

Post by rainbow-fairy on 09.06.14 9:17

@juliet wrote:Thank you rainbow-fairy. I agree it is unusually refined and pointed journalism (therefore someone cleverer than Burley behind it). It brought in everything the McCanns hope everyone has forgotten. It als stresses how guilty they are/must feel.
You're welcome juliet roses
Its certainly possible - which makes it all the more intriguing. Interesting times.....

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Re: Madeleine McCann search digs up the haters and misguided conspiracy theorists

Post by HelenMeg on 09.06.14 9:17

I seem to interpret the article differently.

I see KB in the same group as LK KY. She is appalled by those who put forwards their views that the Mc canns are guilty. She puts forward a counter argument for each claim. Maybe she does more harm than good for the Mc Canns in the article but I dont think that was deliberate. I dont credit her with any cunning. I really despise that group of women - no shred of critical analysis - yet they put forward their uninformed views to the nation.
Either they are presenters and should just present or they should give an informed view to the public.

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Re: Madeleine McCann search digs up the haters and misguided conspiracy theorists

Post by Shhh on 09.06.14 9:21

Burley kept tweeting a troll spray picture yesterday.  Childish much?

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Re: Madeleine McCann search digs up the haters and misguided conspiracy theorists

Post by Guest on 09.06.14 9:23

@Shhh wrote:Burley kept tweeting a troll spray picture yesterday.  Childish much?
I don't think she was tweeting it.
Oh maybe she was. That's a bit sad of her  nah

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Re: Madeleine McCann search digs up the haters and misguided conspiracy theorists

Post by rainbow-fairy on 09.06.14 9:23

@canada12 wrote:I still believe she knew exactly what she was writing.

If you look at her Twitterfeed, you can see why. (I posted this before, a number of pages back, but it's worth repeating again).

Here's the sequence of tweets:

Kay Burley @KayBurley  ·  18h
Do the McCanns deserve such Twitter vitriol and who I think is a spoilt, ignorant little brat in tomorrow's @thesundaypeople

To which someone responded:
Kieron Ward ‏@kie9ward 18h
@KayBurley @thesundaypeople I am (obviously) totally against any vitriol but there do seem to be some unaddressed McCann Qs. Agree or not?

To which KB responded:
@KayBurley
@kie9ward @thesundaypeople read my article and tell me what you think ;-)

It's absolutely clear to me from KB's reply that she knew exactly what she was doing in that article, especially as she followed it with a ;-) emoticon, which is a winking eye.
Totally agree Canada12 - the ;-) says it all, imo!

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Re: Madeleine McCann search digs up the haters and misguided conspiracy theorists

Post by rainbow-fairy on 09.06.14 9:30

@HelenMeg wrote:I seem to interpret the article differently.

I see KB in the same group as LK KY. She is appalled by those who put forwards their views that the Mc canns are guilty. She puts forward a counter argument for each claim. Maybe she does more harm than good for the Mc Canns in the article but I dont think that was deliberate. I dont credit her with any cunning. I really despise that group of women - no shred of critical analysis - yet they put forward their uninformed views to the nation.
Either they are presenters and should just present or they should give an informed view to the public.
But all her counter claims do is through up more questions and discrepancies, HelenMeg...
She had no need to mention what she did, a straightforward piece could have been written without them. 
It omitted a lot of the usual - distance to apartment, checks etc - whilst adding lots dogs, q's...
The MSM know which subjects K+G hate. However dim she would know this. 

The 'troll spray' - which set was it aimed at? Wink

ETA: of course, you are free to interpret it as you wish, as is anybody yes

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Re: Madeleine McCann search digs up the haters and misguided conspiracy theorists

Post by juliet on 09.06.14 9:53

That Wink is very telling. The KB article is absolutely tongue in cheek unlike the lickspittle fawnings of LK, Fiona Phillips and co.

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Re: Madeleine McCann search digs up the haters and misguided conspiracy theorists

Post by juliet on 09.06.14 9:59

I didn`t put the wink face but the semi-colon bracket thing as canada12 did! Anyway it is still telling...

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Re: Madeleine McCann search digs up the haters and misguided conspiracy theorists

Post by tasprin on 09.06.14 15:59

Portugal Newswatch

Reflections on current affairs in Portugal by journalist and author Len Port.

Monday, June 9, 2014

The McCann case: opposing opinions

In the midst of the latest phase in the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, Sky News presenter Kay Burley entered the fray with an article in the Daily Mirror in which she castigated “conspiracy theorists” and “haters” of Madeleine’s parents.

Burley, a reporter and newsreader of long standing, wrote: “I am absolutely staggered by the number of people on social media who think they know exactly what happened to little Madeleine. Conspiracy theorists believe that it’s only a matter of time before the McCanns are held culpable for their daughter’s disappearance.”

Burley went on to dismiss criticisms of Kate McCann’s refusal to answer questions put to her by Portuguese police, and to belittle what many have read into the findings of cadaver dogs in the McCanns holiday apartment and a hire car they used.

“Easy to dismiss such claims as Looney Tunes, but even a national newspaper was guilty of claiming the McCanns know more than they have told the police,” wrote Burley.

“As a mother I am offended and appalled by such unfounded allegations.

“Every morning the McCann’s must wake up only to be smothered by a blanket of guilt. ‘ If only we’d done this…’

“They have always held on to the hope that Madeleine will be found alive.

“So as the search continues, please ignore the haters and think instead of two desperate parents hundreds of miles away sitting by the phone and hoping against hope that nothing is found this time.”

This heartfelt standpoint exemplifies one of the most contentious features of this extraordinary case. In the absence of indisputable evidence, two conflicting schools of thought have developed about what happened to Madeleine: one that she was abducted, the other that she died inadvertently in the apartment and her parents were somehow involved in a cover-up.

There was no proof either way in 2007 and there is none today, but it is human nature to adopt a preferred line of probability depending on one’s logical and emotional approach.

It is true that many people hiding in the safety of anonymity or pseudonyms make abhorrent, highly abusive comments on internet sites. In the absence of legal options, indeed they should be ignored.

The trouble with Kay Burley’s condemnation, however, is that in its broad sweep it fails to recognise that many of those who do not accept as a given fact that Madeleine was abducted are not “haters.”

Some of the McCann doubters and critics have probably studied this case in more depth and for longer than most mainstream media journalists in Britain.

They are aware, for example, that back in May 2007 no trace was found of a break-in or a burglary, let alone a kidnapping, at the apartment from which Madeleine went missing.

Well-informed sceptics want the truth to emerge so that justice can finally be done. Their reasoned arguments and conclusions are worthy of serious consideration.

Not everyone believes what they hear on television news channels or read in newspapers. ‘Churnalistic’ and seemingly servile coverage of this case gives rise to distrust.

While there is genuine compassion for Madeleine’s devastated parents, a great many Portuguese mothers are offended and appalled by the repercussions in this country of leaving Madeleine and her siblings alone that fateful night.

The reputations of the Portuguese judicial police, the original lead detective and a range of innocent ‘suspects’ have been blackened in the British media over the years.

To cap it all, the Algarve has been cast recently as a hotbed of paedophilia and the ordinary folk dependent on tourism for their livelihood in Praia da Luz have been subjected to the crass timing of the current search operations.

Obviously this case has been a very public and impassioned one, but simplistic rants in the mainstream or social media are not helpful.

One indisputable fact is that no matter how much anyone sympathises with or is critical of Kate and Gerry McCann, it is still far from clear exactly what happened to their daughter.

Sadly, it is looking increasing unlikely we shall know any time soon.

At the end of a TV interview at the weekend, former Chief Inspector Gonçalo Amaral, who believes Madeleine died in the apartment, was asked: “Will we ever find out what really happened that night?”

He replied:  “Yes, we will. When MI5 opens the case files we will find out. Don’t forget that the British secret services followed the case right from the beginning. On location.”

Amaral did not predict how long it would be before that information became available.

Praia da Luz, the unlikely scene of such an extraordinary mystery.
http://algarvenewswatch.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/the-madeleine-case-opposing-opinions.html?spref=tw

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Re: Madeleine McCann search digs up the haters and misguided conspiracy theorists

Post by missmar1 on 09.06.14 16:27

@HelenMeg wrote:I seem to interpret the article differently.

I see KB in the same group as LK KY. She is appalled by those who put forwards their views that the Mc canns are guilty. She puts forward a counter argument for each claim. Maybe she does more harm than good for the Mc Canns in the article but I dont think that was deliberate. I dont credit her with any cunning. I really despise that group of women - no shred of critical analysis - yet they put forward their uninformed views to the nation.
Either they are presenters and should just present or they should give an informed view to the public.


Hi HelenMeg,

I tend to think K Burley has ( For whatever reason) deliberately let the cat out of the bag in her two sided article.... as far as putting her in the same group as the fawning Lk, If and when LK stops her constant fawning over the Mccann's and chooses to write an article about them with a two sided sword as, imo, KB has done - then yes, imo, they belong in the same group

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