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Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

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Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

Post by littlewoollies on 12.06.14 21:22

IMO they searched the wrong area. They should try some of the places they visited on the day they had an audience with the pope. Why should they be afforded with that privilege. They might think they are royalty but there not.

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Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

Post by missmar1 on 12.06.14 21:23

@aquila wrote:
@missmar1 wrote:
@Bishop Brennan wrote:
@missmar1 wrote:
Yes thats about the top and bottom of it elasticandy  - he's no fool thats why, imo, he snapped " find the body" that time. 
He KNOWS her body will never be found  - but if the PJ do have to shelve this case again lets hope if there is some information in the next batch of released files that the PJ have been holding back, then the case will be back in the news but not in the way the Mccann's will want. all my opinion only.

And it's also why the verdict in the libel trial is so critical.  If they lose that case, the book can then be published in the UK in book, magazine or newspaper format.  If they win it, then their reputation is solidified. It's a high stakes verdict for them if not for the outcome of the investigation.  


Couldn't agree more.   Along with all the negative points you have posted there is also the added issue of the MONEY they stand to lose - so yes, a whole lot is riding on whether they win this case.

I cant help wondering if this whole digging show was put on just in time for the libel trial ?   No, surely not, we have to believe SY is genuine in its  quest to get justice for a little girl who went missing while in the care of her absent parents
Can it only be coincidence that SY (the upstanding UK police authority that never leaks)  released CrimeWatch programmes - yes, there were TWO productions (my flabber is trully gasted) at a time when the libel trial was at a sensitive point?

Can it be coincidence that SY (the upstanding UK police authority that never leaks) showed pictures of themselves arriving in Portugal?

Can it be conicidence that SY (the upstanding UK police authority that never leaks) at the beginning of their 'review' showed pictures of themselves removing boxes of paperwork from the offices of Metodo3?

Hey, CynicAl, what do you think of those folk amongst us who find this whole thing a little too much to not question?

I am very annoyed at the way the report was worded - yes, I know its possible that it may have been worded that way to " lull" the Mccann's into stepping on Portuguise soil for the trial - but it may not have been written in that way for that reason, and if it wasn't, then it has been done for another reason imo, and that is to strengthen the Mccann's case....... otherwise I cannot believe how well timed and "lucky" this report has been for the Mccann's....... CM came rushing out almost tripping over himself to confirm the Mccann's propose to attend the trial in Portugal next week.

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Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

Post by Guest on 12.06.14 21:25

CM came rushing out almost tripping over himself to confirm the Mccann's propose to attend the trial in Portugal next week.

 big grin 

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Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

Post by ChippyM on 12.06.14 21:56

@canada12 wrote:I think the quick departure from PDL before any forensic results are released is to give KH and GM a false sense of security. Nothing indicated, therefore you're safe to come back to Portugal, Mr. and Mrs. McCann. However perhaps Mr and Mrs McCann are awaiting the results of the forensic tests before they decide whether or not to attend the trial in person. I'm betting on the results not being released by Monday. Then Kate and Gerry will have some decisions to make. Go to Portugal and risk being made arguidos all over again, in the event the forensics come back with very incriminating evidence? Or stay home, and risk the forensics indicating nothing, but losing the PR battle and the opportunity to whine about state how much Madeleine's meant to them financially.

If they go back to Portugal and the forensics come back with damning evidence, they could be made arguidos, and / or they could be arrested.

Do you want to risk that, Kate and Gerry? Unless they've been unequivocally assured that nothing like that is going to happen... they should be very very circumspect about their appearance in Lisbon. IMO.

 If it's true that SY have been planning months of activity in Portugal, I doubt they would release results of forensics until then, they don't have to. In fact I think it's more likely they hold on to any results until the case is over one way or another.  They definitely wouldn't want to give anyone implicated a heads up by releasing results.
    I am hopeful there was something significant as the dogs led to one particular area on Wednesday, otherwise Gerry is right and those dogs are useless.

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Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

Post by Gaggzy on 12.06.14 23:13



' ... and that big white one over there is a Kittiwake.'
'You sure, sir ... looks like a Herring gull to me.'
'Nah. It's a Kittiwake, I'm telling you.'

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Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

Post by Guest on 12.06.14 23:23

@ChippyM wrote:
 If it's true that SY have been planning months of activity in Portugal, I doubt they would release results of forensics until then, they don't have to. In fact I think it's more likely they hold on to any results until the case is over one way or another.  They definitely wouldn't want to give anyone implicated a heads up by releasing results.
    I am hopeful there was something significant as the dogs led to one particular area on Wednesday, otherwise Gerry is right and those dogs are useless.
Really? Do you have a link for this, Chippy? Was it at the house or the wasteland with the barn? And did they alert?

Can't believe I haven't seen this!

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Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

Post by fossey on 13.06.14 1:28

Dee Coy wrote:
@ChippyM wrote:
 If it's true that SY have been planning months of activity in Portugal, I doubt they would release results of forensics until then, they don't have to. In fact I think it's more likely they hold on to any results until the case is over one way or another.  They definitely wouldn't want to give anyone implicated a heads up by releasing results.
    I am hopeful there was something significant as the dogs led to one particular area on Wednesday, otherwise Gerry is right and those dogs are useless.
Really? Do you have a link for this, Chippy? Was it at the house or the wasteland with the barn? And did they alert?

Can't believe I haven't seen this!
Yes, didn't know that either.

I was under the assumption the dogs were brought in to have 'sniff' at a specific area but they didn't actually lead their handlers to a particular area within that.

Stand to be corrected though.

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Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

Post by fossey on 13.06.14 1:41

Too long to copy and paste but the below link is worth a read.

http://zizipresscuts.wordpress.com/

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Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

Post by Themis on 13.06.14 7:51

Who ever is running the current activity SY or PJ the Portuguese law of judicial secrecy will still apply, this means that once a criminal investigation is under way, police cannot reveal anything about that investigation, including any details about potential suspects. Not surprising not much is coming out of PDL but it does not mean they have not made progress.

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Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

Post by jozi on 13.06.14 9:02

@Hongkong Phooey wrote:Well,  how much more convenient can you get? SY spend just over a week with a fantasy dig then come out with a statement which could not have been better fir the McCanns if they'd written it themselves. All this done at exactly the right time for the libel trial final statements etc. GM will stand up and say SY have confirmed there is no evidence that Maddie is dead, and he will be correct. What a farce!

Very Convenient eh !!!

Andy and his Merry Band of Men will go down in history as the Stoopidest Police Force in the World, everyone knows it and Portugal is saying it out loud and clear !!!

What a farce is about right !

Will this kill the Mets reputation completely !

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Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

Post by ChippyM on 13.06.14 9:05

Dee Coy wrote:
@ChippyM wrote:
 If it's true that SY have been planning months of activity in Portugal, I doubt they would release results of forensics until then, they don't have to. In fact I think it's more likely they hold on to any results until the case is over one way or another.  They definitely wouldn't want to give anyone implicated a heads up by releasing results.
    I am hopeful there was something significant as the dogs led to one particular area on Wednesday, otherwise Gerry is right and those dogs are useless.
Really? Do you have a link for this, Chippy? Was it at the house or the wasteland with the barn? And did they alert?

Can't believe I haven't seen this!

Ok I have gone back through Wednesdays posts as the original ITV page where Martin Geissler was tweeting doesn't seem to be there.

"http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/10891879/Madeleine-McCann-search-stupid-British-police-face-backlash-from-Portuguese-locals.html

……
Sniffer dogs are being used on the area near where Madeleine McCann went missing in Portugal seven years ago after a fresh area of land was cordoned off by police in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz at first light this morning.
The words "policia ingesa [sic] estupidos" appeared on a nearby wall, as well as accusations against the McCanns, alleging they were responsible for her disappearance.
Two dogs from South Wales Police were seen with their handlers inside the cordon and appeared to be concentrating on a small area which has been marked out with police tape inside."


This was someone taking pictures and observing the dig-
"
Alex Littlewood @westnewsprod  ·  Jun 11  (time 11.19)
British police starting to search an area inside the cordon which has already been swept by sniffer dogs."

 "NickE wrote:11:58am, Wed 11 Jun 2014
Police 'unearth an object' at new McCann search site
ITV News Correspondent Martin Geissler reports from Praia da Luz:


martin geissler
@mmgeissler"

I can't insert pictures at the moment but you can see the sniffer dogs within the internal area here
http://news.sky.com/story/1279830/madeleine-mccann-police-bring-in-sniffer-dogs

and then the officers manually searching here, http://www.itv.com/news/2014-06-11/police-investigate-second-area-of-scrubland-in-madeleine-mccann-search/

    I don't think any of the papers really reported this they just seemed to report that 'nothing was found' aka the SY statement.
 I suppose we can't say for sure the sniffer dogs alerted but it's interesting that they found and object and then packed up!

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Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

Post by ChippyM on 13.06.14 9:11

@Themis wrote:Who ever is running the current activity SY or PJ the Portuguese law of judicial secrecy will still apply, this means that once a criminal investigation is under way, police cannot reveal anything about that investigation, including any details about potential suspects. Not surprising not much is coming out of PDL but it does not mean they have not made progress.

Yes and I think any statements SY have made are worded very carefully!

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Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

Post by fossey on 13.06.14 10:35

From Pat Brown today:

FRIDAY, JUNE 13, 2014

Thank You, Scotland Yard



[size]


As the week of digging up Portugal for no discernibly good reason comes came to a close, Kate and Gerry McCann told the press how pleased they were that Scotland Yard had put forth such effort but not found a dead Maddie. As they fly to Portugal on Sunday to testify against Gonçalo Amaral, their argument that he has caused them great emotional pain and damaged the search for Madeleine has not, in the end, been weakened by Scotland Yard's recent activities. In fact, Scotland Yard's Praia da Luz digging and subsequent statements have actually strengthened their case.

The massive money and time spent over the last three years and in the recent spectacle at the Snail go to show how difficult the struggle is to find Madeleine or at least what happened to Madeleine. Even Scotland Yard with their millions of pounds of taxpayer money haven't yet been able to solve the mystery, a mystery that wouldn't exist if the PJ hadn't failed so dismally in their investigation when the case was fresh and if Gonçalo Amaral hadn't wasted early opportunities to follow good leads to locate Maddie instead of being hellbent on convicting the McCanns. If even Scotland Yard can't seem to clean up the mess and bring this case to closure with so much money and manpower, the damage to the case by the Portuguese police's incompetence  and Amaral's refusal to consider any other theory than the McCann's involvement is quite obviously tremendous. And, if Scotland Yard with all their seemingly unlimited budget and detectives has not yet found Maddie, who can blame the McCanns for failing to find her, in spite of all the cash they have collected through their fund?

On top of all this, Scotland Yard has just issued this incredible statement:  "This recent work is part of ensuring that all lines of inquiry are progressed in a systematic manner and covers just the one hypothesis that she was killed and buried locally."

Two things jump out at me: the first thing is that the statement does not include the words "in the vacation flat" which means, at this point, Scotland Yard is not necessarily giving any credibility to the cadaver and blood evidence in the apartment. And this means their analysis does not support Amaral's conclusion, and in fact, indicates that he came to such a conclusion without reliable evidence; hence, he harmed the McCanns by claiming Maddie was dead, that she died in the apartment, and that her body was removed by the McCanns. The second thing that jumped out at me is that this is "just one hypothesis, " which opens the door for Maddie being alive which validates the McCanns' search, which in turn supports the McCanns' assertion that Gonçalo Amaral's claims in his book are libelous and damaging.

Thank you, Scotland Yard, for conducting this charade of an investigation which has worked out perfectly for the McCanns and been timed just right so that they can now enter the courtroom with their heads held high with just the added ammo they need to possibly win this outrageous and ridiculous lawsuit.

God help, Gonçalo.


Criminal Profiler Pat Brown

June 13, 2014 [/size]

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Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

Post by stillsloppingout on 13.06.14 10:58

The latest pat Brown post says it all .
People must realise including [ Shakespeare AL or whatever he calls himself ]  because of social media all the information is in the public eye , [ if it was going to be a whitewash people say then it would have gone away been swept under the carpet , wrong ] because it is in the public eye , and the files etc are in clear view , every aspect has to be placed again in to the public domain and then , picked off one by one . DO YOU NOT THINK IT A CO INCEDENCE THIS DIG TOOK PLACE AND THEN THE LIBEL TRIAL IS TO RESUME ? . I have been around a long time ive seen a few , and this is no different .

Ps dont get me started on Celebrities MP'S swinging , because i know more than i can say on a forum.

Ps re AL  Ive seen them come and go , people who come onto forums , and try and create division , [ working for the McCann's ] replying to a post is fine but replying deconstructing it to the inch is , not only disruptive it is unsettling to people who are only trying to express there opinion , and the long nature of the posts also screws the forums pages up .

 Doesn't bother me i used to perform stand up . it was always the clever ones i ripped apart .

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Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

Post by ChippyM on 13.06.14 11:02

@fossey wrote:From Pat Brown today:

FRIDAY, JUNE 13, 2014
..........
Two things jump out at me: the first thing is that the statement does not include the words "in the vacation flat" which means, at this point, Scotland Yard is not necessarily giving any credibility to the cadaver and blood evidence in the apartment. And this means their analysis does not support Amaral's conclusion, and in fact, indicates that he came to such a conclusion without reliable evidence; hence, he harmed the McCanns by claiming Maddie was dead, that she died in the apartment, and that her body was removed by the McCanns. The second thing that jumped out at me is that this is "just one hypothesis, " which opens the door for Maddie being alive which validates the McCanns' search, which in turn supports the McCanns' assertion that Gonçalo Amaral's claims in his book are libelous and damaging.

Thank you, Scotland Yard, for conducting this charade of an investigation which has worked out perfectly for the McCanns and been timed just right so that they can now enter the courtroom with their heads held high with just the added ammo they need to possibly win this outrageous and ridiculous lawsuit.

God help, Gonçalo.


Criminal Profiler Pat Brown

June 13, 2014 

Why would they include the words 'in the flat' if they are still looking for evidence to support that she died there? If they included those words they would more or less be accusing the parents without the necessary proof, which legally they just can't do.
'Just one hypothesis' to me indicates more than one and does not exclude that she was killed by her own parents or any other possible hypothesis.  Sorry but I don't think Pat Brown is being entirely logical here.  Surely SY's statement that they were searching based on the theory M was killed gives Amaral an advantage or at least levels things out.

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Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

Post by Justformaddie on 13.06.14 11:12

Well, I thought AR said that maddie may not have left the APARTMENT ALIVE! So..... What evidence do they have if they are ignoring Eddie & Keela? All IMO.

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Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

Post by ChippyM on 13.06.14 11:21

@Justformaddie wrote:Well, I thought AR said that maddie may not have left the APARTMENT ALIVE! So..... What evidence do they have if they are ignoring Eddie & Keela? All IMO.

Yep, to even consider that hypothesis, even as one of many, indicates that SY have at least something to make them consider it.

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Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

Post by Justformaddie on 13.06.14 11:31

@ChippyM wrote:
@Justformaddie wrote:Well, I thought AR said that maddie may not have left the APARTMENT ALIVE! So..... What evidence do they have if they are ignoring Eddie & Keela? All IMO.

Yep, to even consider that hypothesis, even as one of many, indicates that SY have at least something to make them consider it.
Or they do believe Eddie & Keela! They've also trusted the dogs last week to involve them aswell, otherwise they wouldnt have been there searching! IMO

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Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

Post by ChippyM on 13.06.14 11:41

@Justformaddie wrote:
@ChippyM wrote:
@Justformaddie wrote:Well, I thought AR said that maddie may not have left the APARTMENT ALIVE! So..... What evidence do they have if they are ignoring Eddie & Keela? All IMO.

Yep, to even consider that hypothesis, even as one of many, indicates that SY have at least something to make them consider it.
Or they do believe Eddie & Keela! They've also trusted the dogs last week to involve them aswell, otherwise they wouldnt have been there searching! IMO

Yes I agree, it makes no sense at all to ignore evidence from one set of dogs but not another.

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Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

Post by Justformaddie on 13.06.14 11:50

@ChippyM wrote:
@Justformaddie wrote:
@ChippyM wrote:
@Justformaddie wrote:Well, I thought AR said that maddie may not have left the APARTMENT ALIVE! So..... What evidence do they have if they are ignoring Eddie & Keela? All IMO.

Yep, to even consider that hypothesis, even as one of many, indicates that SY have at least something to make them consider it.
Or they do believe Eddie & Keela! They've also trusted the dogs last week to involve them aswell, otherwise they wouldnt have been there searching! IMO

Yes I agree, it makes no sense at all to ignore evidence from one set of dogs but not another.
Just thinking also, when AR said it might not follow all of our thinking (or similar words) tells me a few of OG think she did not leave the apartment alive. AR would surely know that cadaver takes time to develop, time that they didn't have IMO  nah

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Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

Post by bobbin on 13.06.14 11:55

@ChippyM wrote:
@Justformaddie wrote:
@ChippyM wrote:
@Justformaddie wrote:Well, I thought AR said that maddie may not have left the APARTMENT ALIVE! So..... What evidence do they have if they are ignoring Eddie & Keela? All IMO.

Yep, to even consider that hypothesis, even as one of many, indicates that SY have at least something to make them consider it.
Or they do believe Eddie & Keela! They've also trusted the dogs last week to involve them aswell, otherwise they wouldnt have been there searching! IMO

Yes I agree, it makes no sense at all to ignore evidence from one set of dogs but not another.

The policemen and women would have broken their spines and their spirits if they had been obliged to dig all the rock hard ground within a radius of 15 Km of PdL.

If they used the dogs it would have been because they were certain that if the dogs 'did not' signify then it was not worth the dig.

The police and MET are indirectly stating that the dogs are the 'first line of defense' and of 'paramount' importance.... in short, 'unquestionably reliable'.  thumbup 

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Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

Post by PeterMac on 13.06.14 12:34

@Justformaddie wrote:
Just thinking also, when AR said it might not follow all of our thinking (or similar words) tells me a few of OG think she did not leave the apartment alive. AR would surely know that cadaver takes time to develop, time that they didn't have IMO 

The mangled syntax of what he said was very telling - to me.  
He was desperately trying NOT to say what they, and everyone else in the world, know, and ended up with several pieces of several sentences jumbled together
Hobs will be able to deconstruct it.

He could have said - We still firmly believe that Madeleine is alive and well and living in a Hellish Lair / with a loving childless family / being treated like a Princess. . .
He could have said  - We still firmly believe that she was alive when she was taken out of the apartment, but, sadly, we do not know what has happened to her since then. . .
He could have said - We are still following the Working Hypothesis that X Y Z

He didn't
He very clearly said -  We believe she was not alive when she left the apartment.   But he managed to mangle it up so that the pro-Child-Neglectors can still feel happy.

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Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

Post by joyce1938 on 13.06.14 13:21

From discussions that have been ongoing over the years I have been looking ,there seemed to be no one that could say for certain how long a body has to lie ,before cadava is smelled . Some say a tiny body would possably not need to be there for as long as an adult ,before it left a trail. Also that a dog might trace it soon after demise,but a human would not ,the dogs noses being so much sense of smell ,. now please do not think I am expert in any of this ,just things I have seen discussed a few times now. joyce1938

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Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

Post by ChippyM on 13.06.14 13:29

I'm going off topic here but has any one seen the RTE drama 'Amber' that is being shown by the BBC at the moment? It's about a missing girl and the impact on her parents etc.

   The mother walks round wearing 'missing' T shirts, with her daughter on and runs a campaign from home that is contacting people all over the world and sending out packs. The dad says she is crazy if she thinks someone has taken her and thinks they will be nice to her.

  There was even a creepy birthday party for the absent girl and a Raymond Hewlett looking dodgy bloke. Even my OH who takes no interest in the McCann case looked over my shoulder and said 'who are they supposed to be looking for, Madeliene McCann?' The actress playing the mother looks just like a certain someone! 

  Will be interesting how the series finishes as there are so many paralells.

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Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

Post by Guest on 13.06.14 14:16

ChippyM If I can offer you some advice its to not waste your time watching the rest of Amber! It was slated for its ending.

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