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Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by pennylane on 11.08.14 10:48

@tiny wrote:I also believe the Smith family, i also believe it was Gerry carrying Madeleine.
Me too, tiny!  thumbup

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by Carrry On Doctor on 11.08.14 10:50

Apologies, I should have given reasons for my thinking.

1. The Smiths come across as an honest family, and there were many of them . Hence I agree with Peters elimination of option 1.
2. The man they saw fitted the overall description of GM.
3. The buttons observed on the side of the trousers, similar to those owned by GM.
4. The necessity for an abductor to be observed, carrying a small blond girl.
5. The child seemed lifeless/sleeping, as were the twins.
6. MS thought the person was GM when seeing him alight from the plane, 60-80%.

The delay in reporting could be due to doubt/fear or not realising what they had seen.
Stating it was not RM - For someone we know, we can tell without seeing a person up close that it is (or isnt) that person, so this is a reasonable thing to say.

Just my opinion based on the information and arguments put forward.

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by Guest on 11.08.14 10:52

I agree with 2c. But I also think there is the small possibility that the Smiths may have got the date wrong too. 

I cannot fathom why Martin Smith did not report the sighting until two weeks later. He was in the middle of all the commotion and must have known that a little girl had disappeared. And only did so when prompted by his son. 
It is possible that he didn't report it because in his mind it was a different day. The memories of several people of that couple of evenings could be mixed together, and this may account for the discrepancies in the bar receipt.

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by pennylane on 11.08.14 11:09

@Justformaddie wrote:
@admin wrote:
@fossey wrote:



Previous

 spit coffee 
Trying to jog anyone's memory  friends

omg that's brilliant, fossey!

You can run but you can't hide Gerry!   shark

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by Carrry On Doctor on 11.08.14 11:14

Why would Smithman be a Gerry look-alike ? If Smithman was needed to assist in a staged abduction, then surely he would have been chosen to look quite different to GM. 2c seems a bit of an own goal in this respect (although possible).

IMO.

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by PeterMac on 11.08.14 11:21

@Carrry On Doctor wrote:Why would Smithman be a Gerry look-alike ? If Smithman was needed to assist in a staged abduction, then surely he would have been chosen to look quite different to GM. 2c seems a bit of an own goal in this respect (although possible).
IMO.

I tend to the view that he was nothing at all to do with anything.
Totally irrelevant
Nothing to do with staged abduction, not 'needed' to do anything, not arranged, not organised . . .
Just a random bloke looking after his child, who happened to pass a family going back to their apartment, either that night, or as someone else has observed, on some other night.

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by sallypelt on 11.08.14 11:21

@PeterMac wrote:
@tiny wrote:I also believe the Smith family, i also believe it was Gerry carrying Madeleine.
Do you therefore dismiss the dogs alerts, the forged Last Photo, the blue tennis bag and so on.
Petermac, despite the INCORRECT claim that I have said that Martin Smith lied, when all I said was there are inconsistencies in MS's statements, I try to keep a balanced mind. As I've already stated, I don't know if Martin Smith has been got at, and this could explain his inconsistencies, but there's something else that often crossed my mind. I am in total agreement with you, that if this was staged, and everything points to it having been staged, and this would have taken time, so, as you have said, why would Gerry McCann be Smithman, if the stage had been set long before 10PM on 3 May?

Well, let me begin with what may be truth or myth, and this is, that around the time MM disappeared there were claims that J Wilkins saw Gerry tampering with  the shutters. Now, if JWs threw the T9's plans into disarray, this may account for a number of issues, including the fact that MM's body may still have been in the apartment at the time Gerry was spotted by JW. Gerry would have known that the plan (if there was one) had now been scuppered. So this may explain the panic of drawing up new timelines on the torn colouring book covers, even having to do it at least twice.

Moreover, it may also explain why the phone calls home to at least four members of the McCann's family stated that the "shutters had been jemmied" Was this due to  confusion and  was part of the original plan that had now gone down the tubes?  Was this the major cock-up.? If this is the case, then maybe Martin Smith DID see Gerry McCann carrying Madeleine that night. This is all speculation on my part, but if this is what happened, it goes a long way to explain why it all unravelled for the others, who may have been involved in the cover-up.

I am interested in what you think about the above theory, and why it could, or could not be correct.

Edited to add, Petermac, in my opening paragraph of the above post, I want to clarify, for all the other members, that it wasn't aimed at PM, but reading it back, it could appear to be that way. So my apologies to you PM, if any member thought that I was referring to you.

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by Justformaddie on 11.08.14 11:25

I believe Martin, the reason is, while it's possible he could have been helping someone he's seen a few times, I honestly don't think he'd have contacted the police after the plane episode. He'd already told police that it wasn't murat he'd seen that night, so why would he go a huge step forward in saying he's 60/80% he seen gm? After all, the mcs were going through hell (aparantly) why on earth would he lie and put them through more turmoil?
IMO

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by Woofer on 11.08.14 11:28

@PeterMac wrote:
@Carrry On Doctor wrote:Why would Smithman be a Gerry look-alike ? If Smithman was needed to assist in a staged abduction, then surely he would have been chosen to look quite different to GM. 2c seems a bit of an own goal in this respect (although possible).
IMO.

I tend to the view that he was nothing at all to do with anything.
Totally irrelevant
Nothing to do with staged abduction, not 'needed' to do anything, not arranged, not organised . . .
Just a random bloke looking after his child, who happened to pass a family going back to their apartment, either that night, or as someone else has observed, on some other night.

If that was the case, surely he would have come forward and said `hey, that was me` - no one could have been unaware of the publicity at that time.

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by Woofer on 11.08.14 11:38

I`ve brought this post over from another thread as it`s more relevant here:-

I found this odd - Martin Smith interviewed for The Daily Mirror straight after the Crimewatch programme.  Martin Smith is saying he made his statement soon after Maddie disappeared, the PJ did not take him seriously because they were more interested in the Jane Tanner sighting, and he said he provided details for an efit a year later but this only became public 6 years later.
 
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-key-witness-accuses-2433328
 
"A key witness in the Madeleine McCann case claimed yesterday that Portuguese police failed to take his evidence seriously.
Retired businessman Martin Smith, 64, provided details for an e-fit of the prime suspect after spotting the mystery man carrying a child at 10pm close to where the three-year-old vanished more than six years ago.
But he said his information was virtually ignored by local officers because they were too busy chasing up another sighting of a man near Kate and Gerry McCann’s holiday apartment in Praia da Luz 45 minutes earlier.
Scotland Yard detectives reinvestigating the case after six years have now established that the suspect Portuguese police were so keen to trace – spotted by holidaymaker Jane Tanner at 9.20pm – was just an innocent British tourist returning his own child from a crèche.
 
Mr Smith, a former Unilever executive, made a statement along with his wife Mary, daughter Aoife and son Peter soon after Madeleine vanished on May 3, 2007.
He helped compile e-fits a year later – but the images were not released at the time and were only made public for the first time earlier this week.
Speaking from his home in Drogheda, Co Louth, Mr Smith said that the Portuguese police did not seem to think his sighting was significant.
He added: “It looked as if they put 90% credence on the Jane Tanner sighting, maybe that wrong-footed them and they didn’t take our sighting as seriously. I was surprised it took six years to rule out the other sighting.”

Why would Martin Smith join the `let`s run down the PJ` brigade.

In his statements he said that his daughter phoned him the day after Maddie went missing and he admits he thought the person he had seen the night before could have been carrying Maddie.  So maybe, going on the Mirror piece, he did contact the PJ straight after and as he says they weren`t interested.  And after seeing the News Item on the 9th September it reinforces his memory that it was in fact GM so phones his local police.

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by Justformaddie on 11.08.14 11:40

I don't think Martin has got mixed up in the dates because his son (Peter, I think) was returning home the next day, 4th which was why they were going home early that night.
IMO

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by Justformaddie on 11.08.14 11:45

@Woofer wrote:I`ve brought this post over from another thread as it`s more relevant here:-

I found this odd - Martin Smith interviewed for The Daily Mirror straight after the Crimewatch programme.  Martin Smith is saying he made his statement soon after Maddie disappeared, the PJ did not take him seriously because they were more interested in the Jane Tanner sighting, and he said he provided details for an efit a year later but this only became public 6 years later.
 
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-key-witness-accuses-2433328
 
"A key witness in the Madeleine McCann case claimed yesterday that Portuguese police failed to take his evidence seriously.
Retired businessman Martin Smith, 64, provided details for an e-fit of the prime suspect after spotting the mystery man carrying a child at 10pm close to where the three-year-old vanished more than six years ago.
But he said his information was virtually ignored by local officers because they were too busy chasing up another sighting of a man near Kate and Gerry McCann’s holiday apartment in Praia da Luz 45 minutes earlier.
Scotland Yard detectives reinvestigating the case after six years have now established that the suspect Portuguese police were so keen to trace – spotted by holidaymaker Jane Tanner at 9.20pm – was just an innocent British tourist returning his own child from a crèche.
 
Mr Smith, a former Unilever executive, made a statement along with his wife Mary, daughter Aoife and son Peter soon after Madeleine vanished on May 3, 2007.
He helped compile e-fits a year later – but the images were not released at the time and were only made public for the first time earlier this week.
Speaking from his home in Drogheda, Co Louth, Mr Smith said that the Portuguese police did not seem to think his sighting was significant.
He added: “It looked as if they put 90% credence on the Jane Tanner sighting, maybe that wrong-footed them and they didn’t take our sighting as seriously. I was surprised it took six years to rule out the other sighting.”

Why would Martin Smith join the `let`s run down the PJ` brigade.

In his statements he said that his daughter phoned him the day after Maddie went missing and he admits he thought the person he had seen the night before could have been carrying Maddie.  So maybe, going on the Mirror piece, he did contact the PJ straight after and as he says they weren`t interested.  And after seeing the News Item on the 9th September it reinforces his memory that it was in fact GM so phones his local police.
I've always thought the timeline of 9:15/9:20 had confused people. Especially the pj, which could be the reason Martins sighting was not taken as seriously. 
IMO

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by Cristobell on 11.08.14 11:47

@Justformaddie wrote:I believe Martin, the reason is, while it's possible he could have been helping someone he's seen a few times, I honestly don't think he'd have contacted the police after the plane episode. He'd already told police that it wasn't murat he'd seen that night, so why would he go a huge step forward in saying he's 60/80% he seen gm? After all, the mcs were going through hell (aparantly) why on earth would he lie and put them through more turmoil?
IMO

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by Justformaddie on 11.08.14 11:55

@Cristobell wrote:
@Justformaddie wrote:I believe Martin, the reason is, while it's possible he could have been helping someone he's seen a few times, I honestly don't think he'd have contacted the police after the plane episode. He'd already told police that it wasn't murat he'd seen that night, so why would he go a huge step forward in saying he's 60/80% he seen gm? After all, the mcs were going through hell (aparantly) why on earth would he lie and put them through more turmoil?
IMO

 goodpost
Thank you Cristobell, it just stands out that IF it was Martins good deed for Murat, he'd done that, no reason at all to try and get the blame on the father. That's why I believe the Smiths are not lying and infact, have tried to help maddie fully. 
IMO

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by Cristobell on 11.08.14 12:19

@Justformaddie wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
@Justformaddie wrote:I believe Martin, the reason is, while it's possible he could have been helping someone he's seen a few times, I honestly don't think he'd have contacted the police after the plane episode. He'd already told police that it wasn't murat he'd seen that night, so why would he go a huge step forward in saying he's 60/80% he seen gm? After all, the mcs were going through hell (aparantly) why on earth would he lie and put them through more turmoil?
IMO

 goodpost
Thank you Cristobell, it just stands out that IF it was Martins good deed for Murat, he'd done that, no reason at all to try and get the blame on the father. That's why I believe the Smiths are not lying and infact, have tried to help maddie fully. 
IMO
Indeed JFM, that's a pretty damning allegation, no wonder the Smith family were in such emotional turmoil. As you say, it is one thing to confirm it wasn't their 'friend Robert Murat, its quite another to point the finger at the father of a missing child!

We can only imagine the number of criminal charges the entire Smith family would face if they are lying, including prison terms for obstructing the course of justice in a major crime.  The idea that Martin Smith would persuade his wife, children and grandchildren to assist him in misleading the police in the case of a missing child is absurd.

Those accusing the Smiths of lying, are doing so on a fraction of the evidence collected in this case.  So sparse is our knowledge that we can run to 100 page threads trying to deconstruct a single sentence uttered by one of the main protagonists.  We know nothing of the investigation!

A few facts we do know are, Goncalo Amaral was removed from the case when he was arranging to fly the Smith family back to PDL.  We know that the McCanns suppressed the efits of Smithman.  We know Smithman is Scotland Yard's prime suspect.  We know the police suspect death in the apartment.

We can dissect every word uttered in the Smith statements, but as anyone familiar with linguistics and semiotics will know, communication is 93% non verbal.  None of us have met the Smith family, the police have, and others who have met them, describe them as decent, honest people.  The fact they have stayed away from the McCann circus, makes them honourable people in my opinion, which I why I am so uncomfortable with this invasion of their privacy.

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by jeanmonroe on 11.08.14 13:00

dantezebu wrote:I agree with 2c. But I also think there is the small possibility that the Smiths may have got the date wrong too. 

I cannot fathom why Martin Smith did not report the sighting until two weeks later. He was in the middle of all the commotion and must have known that a little girl had disappeared. And only did so when prompted by his son. 
It is possible that he didn't report it because in his mind it was a different day. The memories of several people of that couple of evenings could be mixed together, and this may account for the discrepancies in the bar receipt.

Martin Smith "We were out the night it happened. My son and his family were leaving on the Friday (4th May) and we were going for a family meal. We went home about 9.50pm and we heard nothing at all about Madeleine McCann until the next day. (Friday 4th May)

"I was taking my son Peter to the airport and on my way back, I heard that a kidnapping had happened in the village of Luz".

"We were looking at all the commotion on Sky News and we really felt quite helpless".
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So NO 'different' days 'recall'.

STAYED in village until Wednesday 9th May 2007. (kept SCHTUM)

He didn't go anywhere NEAR the police 'investigating' the 'kidnapping' in PDL he had 'heard about' on the 4th May 2007.

He would hardly have got done for 'wasting' police time if he had reported, to police, what he, and his family members, had 'seen' (man carrying child) on 3rd May 2007, would he?

Hmmmm.

A bit like JW who also did NOT tell PJ first thing next morning, after his tennis buddy, GM, child had been 'abducted'

In fact JW passed the police THREE times, one time even lifting up police 'tape' cordon to get by, on morning of 4th May 2007, (before they eventually went to his apartment), and didn't say once, to police, 'i was standing right there, last night, with GM, at the exact time GM says his friend JT saw Madeleine 'being abducted', or 'have you found my tennis buddy's child'?.

Hmmmmm.

Also there is NO 'record' of JW ever doing any 'searching' fo his tennis buddy's child until he left PDL on 5th May 2007.

He and Bridgette DID manage to 'sit around chatting' by the OC pool though, on the 4th while everybody 'else' was 'searching'

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by Woofer on 11.08.14 13:20

Martin Smith KNEW on Friday 4th May that it could have been Maddie he`d seen the night before.
In his statement of the 26th May 2007 he says :-

"— Urged, states that when he passed this individual it would have been around 22H00, and at the time he was completely unaware that a child had disappeared. He only became aware of the disappearance of the child the next morning, through his daughter, L*****, in Ireland who had sent him a message or called him regarding what had happened. At this point he thought that MADELEINE could have been the child he saw with the individual.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Peter Smith also realised soon after it could have been Maddie.
In his statement of the 26th he says :-

"He only found out about the disappearance of the child the next morning through someone he knew, the son of the builder of Estrela da Luz, who was also at the airport. The witness went to the airport given that, as planned, he intended to return to Ireland on that day
At that time he did not associate the said individual with the disappearance, only after thinking on the subject and the coincidence of the time did he infer that MADELEINE could have been the child carried by the individual that he had seen.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Aoife Smith does not say, in her statement, when she realised it could have been Maddie.

What I am getting at here is that 2 of the Smiths admit that it was the next day that they thought it could have been Maddie they saw.

And from the Mirror article that I`ve posted above, it seems that Martin Smith did report this to local officers`soon after`  but `this was virtually ignored` and he was not taken seriously.  So have we all got in wrong when accusing him of not reporting it for 12 days?  From the Mirror article it seems Martin Smith isn`t too happy with the Portuguese police.

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by Woofer on 11.08.14 13:24

Jean Monroe - do you know this for sure - is there a link?

"He didn't go anywhere NEAR the police 'investigating' the 'kidnapping' in PDL he had 'heard about' on the 4th May 2007."


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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by PeterMac on 11.08.14 13:25

@Woofer wrote:
If that was the case, surely he would have come forward and said `hey, that was me` - no one could have been unaware of the publicity at that time.

Many years ago I was in New York. During my stay there were two murders. One in Manhattan one in Queens
I have no idea what happened in either investigation and if I was described or seen on CCTV.
I was not involved, I was nowhere near either scene, and have never bothered to do anything to find out.

So why would someone not involved in any way "Come forward"
Tannerman didn't !

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by jeanmonroe on 11.08.14 13:33

@Woofer wrote:Jean Monroe - do you know this for sure - is there a link?

"He didn't go anywhere NEAR the police 'investigating' the 'kidnapping' in PDL he had 'heard about' on the 4th May 2007."


He says so HIMSELF. (in his 'statements')

EXCLUSIVE: Tourist met rude man carrying child in blanket on night Madeleine vanished

By SANDRA MURPHY, VANESSA ALLEN..................................Daily Mail (paper version only)

3rd January 2008.

Though the Smith family believe they met an almost identical man closer to 10pm, the coincidence prompted them to contact police after they returned to Ireland. Mr Smith said: "Luz is such a small place and so quiet, we felt a duty to tell police and let them decide if it was important."

...........the COINCIDENCE PROMPTED THEM to CONTACT police AFTER they RETURNED TO Ireland!

on the 9th May 2007.

So NO 'feeling a DUTY' to 'telling' police 'anything' and letting the police decide, what was IMPORTANT, between 4th May and up to, and until AFTER, 9th May 2007?

His words, not mine!

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by Guest on 11.08.14 13:39

@sallypelt wrote:
Marlie wrote:I don't know sallypelt, the first statement was made in Portugal using an interpreter and the second was made in his local garda station, a bit of a difference for me. 

In the first statement he said that smithman wore light trousers but wasn't sure about the remainder of the clothing. We don't know what other questions were asked. 

But now he's being asked specific questions at his local station, they may have probed him about say if his top was lighter or darker in colour than the trousers, if he had long/short sleeves so no doubt easier for him to answer.

To the best of my knowledge he didn't sell his stories unless there is something that I missed. I don't know if they were involved in efits however if they were couldn't it have been after his interview in Jan?

Marlie. I have no idea whether Martin Smith is telling the truth, or whether he's been "got at". All I am going on is the inconsistencies in his statements. This is what we are judging the Tapas members on. I don't do hypocrisy.

I've taken this off below thread as requested. I hope that I'm not going too far off topic, just to say sallypelt I was in no way inferring that you are a hypocrite, I was simply trying to tease through the differences, that's all.

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t10089p220-buried-by-mainstream-media-new-film-due-soon

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by Cristobell on 11.08.14 13:45

If the sighting by the Smith family is fabricated, why the need for Martin Smith to drag his wife, his children and his grandchildren into the lie?  Why implicate the entire family including the minors in a criminal offence?  If he fabricated the entire story to implicate the missing child's father and get his friend Robert Murat off the hook, he could have put forward any scenario that would have protected his family, something that is a priority even for the most hardened of villains.

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by pennylane on 11.08.14 13:52

@Woofer wrote:Martin Smith KNEW on Friday 4th May that it could have been Maddie he`d seen the night before.
In his statement of the 26th May 2007 he says :-

"— Urged, states that when he passed this individual it would have been around 22H00, and at the time he was completely unaware that a child had disappeared. He only became aware of the disappearance of the child the next morning, through his daughter, L*****, in Ireland who had sent him a message or called him regarding what had happened. At this point he thought that MADELEINE could have been the child he saw with the individual.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Peter Smith also realised soon after it could have been Maddie.
In his statement of the 26th he says :-

"He only found out about the disappearance of the child the next morning through someone he knew, the son of the builder of Estrela da Luz, who was also at the airport. The witness went to the airport given that, as planned, he intended to return to Ireland on that day
At that time he did not associate the said individual with the disappearance, only after thinking on the subject and the coincidence of the time did he infer that MADELEINE could have been the child carried by the individual that he had seen.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Aoife Smith does not say, in her statement, when she realised it could have been Maddie.

What I am getting at here is that 2 of the Smiths admit that it was the next day that they thought it could have been Maddie they saw.

And from the Mirror article that I`ve posted above, it seems that Martin Smith did report this to local officers`soon after`  but `this was virtually ignored` and he was not taken seriously.  So have we all got in wrong when accusing him of not reporting it for 12 days?  From the Mirror article it seems Martin Smith isn`t too happy with the Portuguese police.
Excellent find Woofer, and very interesting too!

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by pennylane on 11.08.14 13:56

@Cristobell wrote:If the sighting by the Smith family is fabricated, why the need for Martin Smith to drag his wife, his children and his grandchildren into the lie?  Why implicate the entire family including the minors in a criminal offence?  If he fabricated the entire story to implicate the missing child's father and get his friend Robert Murat off the hook, he could have put forward any scenario that would have protected his family, something that is a priority even for the most hardened of villains.
I gave up arguing the points long ago, but I'm with you all the way!

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by jeanmonroe on 11.08.14 14:03

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P16/16_VOLUME_XVIa_Page_4135.jpg

He has been contacted by Mr Brian Kennedy who is supporting the McCann family to take part in a photo fit exercise. He has given no stories or helped in any photo fits.
---------------------------------------------------------

So, M Smith did NOT help 'produce' the e-fits/photo fits DCI was so er, excited, about showing/promoting to the UK public, of Smithman/men!

WHERE did the 'producers' of DCI Redwood's 'revelation' e-fits 'moment' ACTUALLY get the e-fits from?

They certainly did NOT get them from M Smith, did they?

SOMEBODY 'compiled' those e-fits of DCI Redwood's Smithman/men!

WHO, and what information did they 'have' to be able to 'produce' such specific 'faces'?

OR

Did they, the 'compilers' just take a wild 'guess' as to what an 'abductor/suspect' MIGHT look like, in their 'imagination'?

Good job they haven't seen my OH! Or he'd be in 'nick' right now!  winkwink

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