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Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by fred c dobbs on 16.08.14 19:29

@Truthandjustice wrote:  I have been on the forum for only a year or so  and only became aware of the Smith controversy on this forum recently.  I have to say I was utterly gobsmacked that he was being accused of lying in order to get a friend off the hook. I understand that people have their own opinions and that theorising certain scenarios can be interesting but I did find this view extreme and somewhat disturbing given there is no evidence to back it up, merely supposition. Now Mr Smith has spoken out and asked Richard Hall to publish a correction on his video stating that he is not a friend of Murat and knows him only by sight. I would hope that this statement would cause his accusers to rethink their stance. It is one thing theorising without evidence but quite another to accuse someone of lying following a clarifying statement and may have legal  implications in addition to the moral ones. I understand that this theory has been a long time in the making and the road may appear to be well travelled and defined, however that doesn't make it right and there is now a new piece of evidence to be considered in the form of Mr Smith's first public statement in many years. I would hope that forum members are open minded and reasonable enough to accept it unless they can provide evidence to the contrary.
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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by Naz_Nomad on 16.08.14 20:00

We all suspect "Crechemen" is a figment of the imagination, but what confirms it for me is this (and no doubt it's been mentioned before).  IF he was real, surely some cheque book waving journalist would have tracked him down to get the scoop " 'MADDIE SUSPECT' SPEAKS OUT: WORLD EXCLUSIVE".    But since the BBC Crime Fiction Special that was "Crimewatch" that featured "Crecheman" there hasn't been a peep about him since, apart from still featuring on the McCann's website.  Not so long ago, this would have happened, but since we no longer have investigative journalists, it hasn't.  Today's "journalists" simply regurgitate, without question,  official press releases, Twitter messages, and Facebook updates.

The more you dig into this case, the more questions that need answering.

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by pennylane on 16.08.14 21:51

@fred c dobbs wrote:
@Truthandjustice wrote:  I have been on the forum for only a year or so  and only became aware of the Smith controversy on this forum recently.  I have to say I was utterly gobsmacked that he was being accused of lying in order to get a friend off the hook. I understand that people have their own opinions and that theorising certain scenarios can be interesting but I did find this view extreme and somewhat disturbing given there is no evidence to back it up, merely supposition. Now Mr Smith has spoken out and asked Richard Hall to publish a correction on his video stating that he is not a friend of Murat and knows him only by sight. I would hope that this statement would cause his accusers to rethink their stance. It is one thing theorising without evidence but quite another to accuse someone of lying following a clarifying statement and may have legal  implications in addition to the moral ones. I understand that this theory has been a long time in the making and the road may appear to be well travelled and defined, however that doesn't make it right and there is now a new piece of evidence to be considered in the form of Mr Smith's first public statement in many years. I would hope that forum members are open minded and reasonable enough to accept it unless they can provide evidence to the contrary.
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 I absolutely agree!

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by Justformaddie on 16.08.14 22:42

@pennylane wrote:
@fred c dobbs wrote:
@Truthandjustice wrote:  I have been on the forum for only a year or so  and only became aware of the Smith controversy on this forum recently.  I have to say I was utterly gobsmacked that he was being accused of lying in order to get a friend off the hook. I understand that people have their own opinions and that theorising certain scenarios can be interesting but I did find this view extreme and somewhat disturbing given there is no evidence to back it up, merely supposition. Now Mr Smith has spoken out and asked Richard Hall to publish a correction on his video stating that he is not a friend of Murat and knows him only by sight. I would hope that this statement would cause his accusers to rethink their stance. It is one thing theorising without evidence but quite another to accuse someone of lying following a clarifying statement and may have legal  implications in addition to the moral ones. I understand that this theory has been a long time in the making and the road may appear to be well travelled and defined, however that doesn't make it right and there is now a new piece of evidence to be considered in the form of Mr Smith's first public statement in many years. I would hope that forum members are open minded and reasonable enough to accept it unless they can provide evidence to the contrary.
 thumbup  thumbup
 I absolutely agree!
Add me too, Amaral Goncalo and Martin Smith are probably the only two that can be relied upon to tell the truth in this case! If gm reads the debate on here, and if he was smithman, he's well and truly laughing.
IMO

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by inspirespirit on 17.08.14 13:52

I am on the fence re Smithman.  When I hear what Cristobell has to say it makes sense to me, but then again when Tony Bennett states what he believes, that makes sense to me as well.

Just read this over on facebook which was taken from twitter, and this contradicts what he said this week to Hall re his DVD's.


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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by Irisheyes on 17.08.14 13:58

@Justformaddie wrote:
@pennylane wrote:
@fred c dobbs wrote:
@Truthandjustice wrote:  I have been on the forum for only a year or so  and only became aware of the Smith controversy on this forum recently.  I have to say I was utterly gobsmacked that he was being accused of lying in order to get a friend off the hook. I understand that people have their own opinions and that theorising certain scenarios can be interesting but I did find this view extreme and somewhat disturbing given there is no evidence to back it up, merely supposition. Now Mr Smith has spoken out and asked Richard Hall to publish a correction on his video stating that he is not a friend of Murat and knows him only by sight. I would hope that this statement would cause his accusers to rethink their stance. It is one thing theorising without evidence but quite another to accuse someone of lying following a clarifying statement and may have legal  implications in addition to the moral ones. I understand that this theory has been a long time in the making and the road may appear to be well travelled and defined, however that doesn't make it right and there is now a new piece of evidence to be considered in the form of Mr Smith's first public statement in many years. I would hope that forum members are open minded and reasonable enough to accept it unless they can provide evidence to the contrary.
 thumbup  thumbup
 I absolutely agree!
Add me too, Amaral Goncalo and Martin Smith are probably the only two that can be relied upon to tell the truth in this case! If gm reads the debate on here, and if he was smithman, he's well and truly laughing.
IMO

I dont post much but I also totally agree with this.

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by plebgate on 17.08.14 14:00

Thank you ITS for that post. 

No doubt, should there be any legal implications as a poster above suggested, any recorded interviews, emails etc. would need to be produced.

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by Justformaddie on 17.08.14 14:11

@inspirespirit wrote:I am on the fence re Smithman.  When I hear what Cristobell has to say it makes sense to me, but then again when Tony Bennett states what he believes, that makes sense to me as well.

Just read this over on facebook which was taken from twitter, and this contradicts what he said this week to Hall re his DVD's.

As a witness giving a statement, he's probably been asked to be more precise, as in, how many times have you seen Murat in the past 12 months?
He may have seen him several times over the time he's part owned his apartment there, but I don't know how long he did own his apartment for, I wonder does he still go now or sold up.
IMO

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 17.08.14 14:17

@inspirespirit wrote:I am on the fence re Smithman.  When I hear what Cristobell has to say it makes sense to me, but then again when Tony Bennett states what he believes, that makes sense to me as well.

Just read this over on facebook which was taken from twitter, and this contradicts what he said this week to Hall re his DVD's.


The only mention of Robert Murat in 'MS statements is: 
Martin Smith wrote:Adds that in May and August of 2006, he saw ROBERT MURAT in Praia da Luz bars. On one of these occasions, the first, he was inebriated and spoke to everyone. He did not wear glasses at that time. He also states that the individual who carried the child was not ROBERT. He would have recognised him immediately.


The only thing that matters is what is said in official police statements.

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by comperedna on 17.08.14 14:22

TTWO... Your avatar pic is giving me the creeps. What IS it?

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 17.08.14 14:26

@comperedna wrote:TTWO... Your avatar pic is giving me the creeps. What IS it?

Three cute puppies! Not creepy at all.

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by HelenMeg on 17.08.14 14:58

I believe Smithman is real.
I believe that AR set up Crimewatch in order to place GM under the photo fits of Smithman so that he could squirm.  We have all seen the images of G and K
as they sit under the spotlight on CW beneath the e-fits that were suppressed for a long time by the Mac Canons. 

G and K appealed to the Irish (in particular) for someone to come forward with information - someone who may have seen something that evening. The Smiths eventually came forward.
The appeal backfired.

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by comperedna on 17.08.14 17:33

OK TTWO... shows how much I know about dogs . They looked like chimeras to me... three babies with dog's heads. So glad to know I was wrong. Ha Ha. Sorry for disrupting this thread just a little bit.

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by PeterMac on 17.08.14 18:11

They are benefit claimants, watching telly.

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 17.08.14 18:22

@comperedna wrote:OK TTWO... shows how much I know about dogs . They looked like chimeras to me... three babies with dog's heads. So glad to know I was wrong. Ha Ha. Sorry for disrupting this thread just a little bit.

Chimeras wow  I've changed it to a more obviously cute avatar.

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by Justformaddie on 17.08.14 19:08

@TheTruthWillOut wrote:
@comperedna wrote:OK TTWO... shows how much I know about dogs . They looked like chimeras to me... three babies with dog's heads. So glad to know I was wrong. Ha Ha. Sorry for disrupting this thread just a little bit.

Chimeras wow  I've changed it to a more obviously cute avatar.
Ah, they are gorgeous TTWO!

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by comperedna on 18.08.14 13:08

so they are, so they are...

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by Poppyfox on 18.08.14 13:45

The dogs don't lie!! Really cute puppies! smilie

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by aiyoyo on 18.08.14 15:27

@HelenMeg wrote:I believe Smithman is real.
I believe that AR set up Crimewatch in order to place GM under the photo fits of Smithman so that he could squirm.  We have all seen the images of G and K as they sit under the spotlight on CW beneath the e-fits that were suppressed for a long time by the Mac Canons. 



Gerry sat beneath the e-fits - what better chance than that for identity matching?
Yet Redwood the top-notch super experienced detective did not see the obvious.  How can that be?
Neither did any of the TV crews connect the obvious.  How can that be?
And for that matter neither did any of the million viewers phone into the station pointing out the obvious - hey the efit-man is right under your nose!

No, zilch, Gerry who some posters believed to be Smithman eludes Police detection right under the Police nose, what hope is there of public members identifying Gerry as the Smithman? Zero chance.

Do I think Smithman was Gerry? Hell, NO!

Whoever it was that the Smith family saw, it was not Gerry.

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by tiny on 18.08.14 15:59

@aiyoyo wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:I believe Smithman is real.
I believe that AR set up Crimewatch in order to place GM under the photo fits of Smithman so that he could squirm.  We have all seen the images of G and K as they sit under the spotlight on CW beneath the e-fits that were suppressed for a long time by the Mac Canons. 



Gerry sat beneath the e-fits - what better chance than that for identity matching?
Yet Redwood the top-notch super experienced detective did not see the obvious.  How can that be?
Neither did any of the TV crews connect the obvious.  How can that be?
And for that matter neither did any of the million viewers phone into the station pointing out the obvious - hey the efit-man is right under your nose!

No, zilch, Gerry who some posters believed to be Smithman eludes Police detection right under the Police nose, what hope is there of public members identifying Gerry as the Smithman? Zero chance.

Do I think Smithman was Gerry? Hell, NO!

Whoever it was that the Smith family saw, it was not Gerry.
You seem so sure that smithman was not Gerry,have inside info.

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by aiyoyo on 18.08.14 16:07

@tiny wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:I believe Smithman is real.
I believe that AR set up Crimewatch in order to place GM under the photo fits of Smithman so that he could squirm.  We have all seen the images of G and K as they sit under the spotlight on CW beneath the e-fits that were suppressed for a long time by the Mac Canons. 



Gerry sat beneath the e-fits - what better chance than that for identity matching?
Yet Redwood the top-notch super experienced detective did not see the obvious.  How can that be?
Neither did any of the TV crews connect the obvious.  How can that be?
And for that matter neither did any of the million viewers phone into the station pointing out the obvious - hey the efit-man is right under your nose!

No, zilch, Gerry who some posters believed to be Smithman eludes Police detection right under the Police nose, what hope is there of public members identifying Gerry as the Smithman? Zero chance.

Do I think Smithman was Gerry? Hell, NO!

Whoever it was that the Smith family saw, it was not Gerry.
You seem so sure that smithman was not Gerry,have inside info.

No, tiny.
I deduced that, OK?
List one possibly reasonable reason why 38 elite Scotland Yard officers can fail to see the obvious staring them in the face if any one of the two efits was of Gerry.

If witnesses themselves cannot emphatically confirmed that the man they saw was Gerry, if they can't say it who can?

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by tiny on 18.08.14 16:22

@aiyoyo wrote:
@tiny wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:I believe Smithman is real.
I believe that AR set up Crimewatch in order to place GM under the photo fits of Smithman so that he could squirm.  We have all seen the images of G and K as they sit under the spotlight on CW beneath the e-fits that were suppressed for a long time by the Mac Canons. 



Gerry sat beneath the e-fits - what better chance than that for identity matching?
Yet Redwood the top-notch super experienced detective did not see the obvious.  How can that be?
Neither did any of the TV crews connect the obvious.  How can that be?
And for that matter neither did any of the million viewers phone into the station pointing out the obvious - hey the efit-man is right under your nose!

No, zilch, Gerry who some posters believed to be Smithman eludes Police detection right under the Police nose, what hope is there of public members identifying Gerry as the Smithman? Zero chance.

Do I think Smithman was Gerry? Hell, NO!

Whoever it was that the Smith family saw, it was not Gerry.
You seem so sure that smithman was not Gerry,have inside info.

No, tiny.
I deduced that, OK?
List one possibly reasonable reason why 38 elite Scotland Yard officers can fail to see the obvious staring them in the face if any one of the two efits was of Gerry.

If witnesses themselves cannot emphatically confirmed that the man they saw was Gerry, if they can't say it who can?
but we do not know if sy have failed to see the obvious,in fact we don't know what they are up too,but I live in hope they are not stupid and want justice for Madeleine.

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by aiyoyo on 18.08.14 16:44

@tiny wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@tiny wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:I believe Smithman is real.
I believe that AR set up Crimewatch in order to place GM under the photo fits of Smithman so that he could squirm.  We have all seen the images of G and K as they sit under the spotlight on CW beneath the e-fits that were suppressed for a long time by the Mac Canons. 



Gerry sat beneath the e-fits - what better chance than that for identity matching?
Yet Redwood the top-notch super experienced detective did not see the obvious.  How can that be?
Neither did any of the TV crews connect the obvious.  How can that be?
And for that matter neither did any of the million viewers phone into the station pointing out the obvious - hey the efit-man is right under your nose!

No, zilch, Gerry who some posters believed to be Smithman eludes Police detection right under the Police nose, what hope is there of public members identifying Gerry as the Smithman? Zero chance.

Do I think Smithman was Gerry? Hell, NO!

Whoever it was that the Smith family saw, it was not Gerry.
You seem so sure that smithman was not Gerry,have inside info.

No, tiny.
I deduced that, OK?
List one possibly reasonable reason why 38 elite Scotland Yard officers can fail to see the obvious staring them in the face if any one of the two efits was of Gerry.

If witnesses themselves cannot emphatically confirmed that the man they saw was Gerry, if they can't say it who can?
but we do not know if sy have failed to see the obvious,in fact we don't know what they are up too,but I live in hope they are not stupid and want justice for Madeleine.

They must have, haven't they (failed to see the obvious I mean) ?

They were appealing for info on the 2 e-fits weren't they?

Why do that if they had seen the obvious?

They had the efits for some years now, prior to the programme.

Can't tell me they'd seen the obvious yet spent a fortune producing a CW to appeal for info on the 2efits?

Be it they may be clueless about what happened to Madeleine, I doubt they can be that stupid as to waste money seeking info they don't need.

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by tiny on 18.08.14 16:48

@aiyoyo wrote:
@tiny wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@tiny wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:I believe Smithman is real.
I believe that AR set up Crimewatch in order to place GM under the photo fits of Smithman so that he could squirm.  We have all seen the images of G and K as they sit under the spotlight on CW beneath the e-fits that were suppressed for a long time by the Mac Canons. 



Gerry sat beneath the e-fits - what better chance than that for identity matching?
Yet Redwood the top-notch super experienced detective did not see the obvious.  How can that be?
Neither did any of the TV crews connect the obvious.  How can that be?
And for that matter neither did any of the million viewers phone into the station pointing out the obvious - hey the efit-man is right under your nose!

No, zilch, Gerry who some posters believed to be Smithman eludes Police detection right under the Police nose, what hope is there of public members identifying Gerry as the Smithman? Zero chance.

Do I think Smithman was Gerry? Hell, NO!

Whoever it was that the Smith family saw, it was not Gerry.
You seem so sure that smithman was not Gerry,have inside info.

No, tiny.
I deduced that, OK?
List one possibly reasonable reason why 38 elite Scotland Yard officers can fail to see the obvious staring them in the face if any one of the two efits was of Gerry.

If witnesses themselves cannot emphatically confirmed that the man they saw was Gerry, if they can't say it who can?
but we do not know if sy have failed to see the obvious,in fact we don't know what they are up too,but I live in hope they are not stupid and want justice for Madeleine.

They must have, haven't they (failed to see the obvious I mean) ?

They were appealing for info on the 2 e-fits weren't they?

Why do that if they had seen the obvious?

They had the efits for some years now, prior to the programme.

Can't tell me they'd seen the obvious yet spent a fortune producing a CW to appeal for info on the 2efits?

Be it they may be clueless about what happened to Madeleine, I doubt they can be that stupid as to waste money seeking info they don't need.
cant disagree with you there really and I do see where you are coming from,so when do you think they will wrap this case up then.

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Re: Why I believe Smithman is real and likely to be Gerry by Pat Brown

Post by aiyoyo on 18.08.14 17:22

@tiny wrote:
cant disagree with you there really and I do see where you are coming from,so when do you think they will wrap this case up then.

Gone on long enough now.
Indefinite finance of this operation can't go on forever if nothing tangible is found after x number or years then surely it must come time to cut off.
Before this year is out I expect to hear Redwood's closing report, indictment or no indictment.

If it stretches beyond this year I'm inclined to think it is not a normal operation; that the investigation may be on a bigger scope than we know, meaning more than the mcs were under investigation, and I am not talking just the holiday friends.

It's normal to wrap up operation if it is going to lead nowhere.
By 3 years if they can't find cast iron evidence to take to court, it is never going to happen.  
Unless they are investigating additional stuff (the peripheral characters involved in the pi operation and board trustees for example) incriminating stuff that emerged during process of the main line of investigation that compels further in depth scrutiny to complete the investigation.

Just my opinion as usual.

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