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Farce: Phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers

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Re: Farce: Phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers

Post by Guest on 06.06.14 10:33

@worriedmum wrote:

Did all three of them hide, like sheets of paper, behind the bedroom door?



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Re: Farce: Phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers

Post by russiandoll on 06.06.14 10:34

comment on the story from justice forum :

 
Quote from: jassi on Today at 10:24:32 AM
These are traffickers, not your ordinary addicts.  Not likely to be short of cash.


Oh you mean like the real heavy dudes like the Colombians?
I see yeah it makes sense someone of that calibre would be involved. I mean with the amount they'd make out of it there would be at least enough for another clip of ammo for an AK47. Definitely worth their while.

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Here you are, Clay!

Post by worriedmum on 06.06.14 10:46




And so that's THREE more lots of DNA not found in 5a. Did they jemmy the shutters?

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Re: Farce: Phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers

Post by gbwales on 06.06.14 10:49

candyfloss wrote:
@BigRon wrote:I still say the whole point of the Grange review is to come up with something, anything to exonerate K&G. SY would love to do some surreptitious work, coincidentally 'unsupervised' by the PJ and suddenly "Hey guys! Look what we've found! Something that fits in with our druggie/paedo/burglar abductor theory!". All of this activity around Portugal is because the PJ reopened their own investigation and SY want to get closer to it so they can report back to the McCanns. They can then be forewarned if the inevitable happens.

Why else would K&G have pressed for a review in the first place? Best form of defence is attack and all that....

Just my theory of course..

Exonerate K & G?  How come, they were exonerated according to them and the press who said they were cleared.  The papers have since printed stories very favourable to them, and in the eyes of the public the shelving report cleared them.  So what's to exonerate?

And of course it's really kind of impossible for SY to come up with something to "exonerate" them - their extraordinary conduct in the initial investigation is laid bare in the PJ Files and Amaral's book and Eddie & Keela's alerts are on record and on Youtube. These things cannot be unsaid and unseen. They are out there and they will stay out there.

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Re: Farce: Phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers

Post by CynicAl on 06.06.14 10:56

They were obviously pitifully poor at drug trafficking. The idea that the numerous traffickers operating across the water from North Africa would do business with anyone who used a traceable, trackable mobile phone before, during and after the kind of crime that would bring entirely the wrong kind of attention is laughable. That the three are even still alive after word of their hobby got out in the criminal fraternity of drug traffickers who are, in that part of the world, largely Muslim or Catholic, nominally at least, with likely qualms about the random murder of children as an evening pastime is nothing short of miraculous. 

They were also terrible burglars it seems... Sod the valuables, take a kid. No? Oh right, the kid was dead. Take a dead kid. Hmmm. That doesn't work either. Ok, they must have made the kid dead... And then took the body... Because a missing kid is less shocking than a dead one when mum and dad stagger home from the bar, right? Errr, wrong. No, so if we take the kid, bury it, clean the place up and no one will know we were ever there and no one will come looking for us! Right... Apart from the missing kid, who is missing, with everyone out looking for them... Screw it... I'm out here carrying this dead kid - god, she's getting heavier - and looking for somewhere to dump her... Now, where... Oh sh1t... Is that a bunch of tourists coming? They sound like they have an Irish accent... What do I do? What do I do? What did the boss say to do? Let me think... Rule 1, don't make any phone calls, rule 2, if you get spotted don't do anything to draw attention to yourself, operate like you're in disguise... I know, I'll just give him a ring and ask where he thinks I should take her... But I'll do it in english so those Irish people won't know what I'm saying...

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Re: Farce: Phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers

Post by sombrero on 06.06.14 11:04

Why would a drug trafficker actually rob an apartment?   To me it makes no sense at all.  No evidence of a break in and if say the door was open (as an entry point) and a child awoke I would have thought that run quickly away would be the best plan of action.

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Re: Farce: Phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers

Post by joyce1938 on 06.06.14 11:08

yes exactly where did this new peson come from  so now not only seen by a whole family ,but now someone else saw the child being carried ,how is it we have never heard of this before ? joyce1938

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Re: Farce: Phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers

Post by canada12 on 06.06.14 11:20

@CynicAl wrote:They were obviously pitifully poor at drug trafficking. The idea that the numerous traffickers operating across the water from North Africa would do business with anyone who used a traceable, trackable mobile phone before, during and after the kind of crime that would bring entirely the wrong kind of attention is laughable. That the three are even still alive after word of their hobby got out in the criminal fraternity of drug traffickers who are, in that part of the world, largely Muslim or Catholic, nominally at least, with likely qualms about the random murder of children as an evening pastime is nothing short of miraculous. 

They were also terrible burglars it seems... Sod the valuables, take a kid. No? Oh right, the kid was dead. Take a dead kid. Hmmm. That doesn't work either. Ok, they must have made the kid dead... And then took the body... Because a missing kid is less shocking than a dead one when mum and dad stagger home from the bar, right? Errr, wrong. No, so if we take the kid, bury it, clean the place up and no one will know we were ever there and no one will come looking for us! Right... Apart from the missing kid, who is missing, with everyone out looking for them... Screw it... I'm out here carrying this dead kid - god, she's getting heavier - and looking for somewhere to dump her... Now, where... Oh sh1t... Is that a bunch of tourists coming? They sound like they have an Irish accent... What do I do? What do I do? What did the boss say to do? Let me think... Rule 1, don't make any phone calls, rule 2, if you get spotted don't do anything to draw attention to yourself, operate like you're in disguise... I know, I'll just give him a ring and ask where he thinks I should take her... But I'll do it in english so those Irish people won't know what I'm saying...

Wait, wait, I'll have to abandon this dead kid NOW. I can't go back to my two pals with her. Maybe I can take her back to the flat I took her from. I left the shutters open. Should be easy. In the same way I climbed out. And who's that English lady looking at me and making notes? She looks proper shifty. I think I'll just drop the kid here on this wasteland and hope she doesn't notice. Damn. She's seen me. I'm leaving. I need a pee. I think there's a loo at the Ocean Club...

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Re: Farce: Phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers

Post by Woofer on 06.06.14 11:21

@joyce1938 wrote:yes exactly where did this new peson come from  so now not only seen by a whole family ,but now someone else saw the child being carried ,how is it we have never heard of this before ? joyce1938
 
The same as how we didn`t hear of crecheman before I suppose - these people seem to be magicked from nowhere.

Abracadabra - crecheman
Abracadabra - holiday lady

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Re: Farce: Phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers

Post by joyce1938 on 06.06.14 11:25

Just a thought ,they are not now speaking about jane tanner and what she said she saw  ,and including tannerman ? is it a mistake ? makes you wonder eh ? when it suits make it fit ? joyce1938

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Re: Farce: Phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers

Post by Mirage on 06.06.14 11:27

I believe the press are ushering in a new era of unemployment for themselves. Editors clearly never read "The boy who cried wolf" as children. Nor did they heed the truism that the British are slow to anger.

I sense newspapers will pay in the pocket for misleading and misinforming the British public. And I don't want to hear any whining about being muzzled later on. If you are prevented from publishing the truth, the answer is certainly not to publish lies.

Eta  I realise the OP is an article in CdM.

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Re: Farce: Phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers

Post by canada12 on 06.06.14 11:28

@joyce1938 wrote:Just a thought ,they are not now speaking about jane tanner and what she said she saw  ,and including tannerman ? is it a mistake ? makes you wonder eh ? when it suits make it fit ? joyce1938

I was just about to say the same thing Joyce!
What if the English holidaymaker was Jane Tanner?
Even more intriguing, what if this is something she discussed with the others as an alternate sighting or explanation?
And now, IMO, the info has been leaked to the press - so T9 KNOW - IMO JT has been talking to the police.
All IMO.

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Re: Farce: Phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers

Post by sombrero on 06.06.14 11:33

That's a great comment

" If you are prevented from publishing the truth, the answer is certainly not to publish lies".

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Re: Farce: Phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers

Post by FH on 06.06.14 11:40

@Cheshire Cat wrote:Another article which I feel merits its own thread. It's another one of those 'unhelpful' articles.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/06/phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers.html

English Police say that Maddie McCann assassins are Portuguese and are involved in drug trafficking

by Tânia Laranjo/Rui Pando Gomes

They are Portuguese and have a criminal record for drug trafficking. The English police states that they assaulted the apartment at the Ocean Club resort, in Lagos, and killed Madeleine McCann on 3 May 2007.

The phone calls made before and after the crime were used as evidence to support the searches that have been ongoing since Monday.

Scotland Yard also ensures that there is a British witness who saw one of the men carrying a child in his arms up to the wasteland, situated less than 500 meters from the resort. The British say that he fled, but before he was able to bury the girl's cadaver.

They want to hear the three suspects, but they still lack the evidence to support the claim.

“Those who are going to commit a robbery do not travel on foot and they will not abandon a body so close to the crime scene. Moreover, there were no signs of forced entry at the apartment”, said Gonçalo Amaral, the former PJ inspector who investigated the case and considers that this new theory is not credible.

This version is, incidentally, one among others contained in the letter rogatory which determined that the searches would take place. Though it is the strongest, the British open the door to other possibilities. Other five suspects are listed, they also have a criminal record for theft. 

Seven years after the disappearance, the British police now guarantees to the Public Prosecutor's Office that their claim was well founded. The description given by a British holidaymaker coincides with one of the suspects who lives nearby. The woman saw him speaking in English on the phone, as he passed, carrying the child in his arms.

in Correio da Manhã, June 6, 2014
Before people start shouting at me about Smithman not existing (because they KNOW he didn't) , I would like to point out we are not necessarily in possession of all the facts.

This new "sighting" could be a load of drivel, or it could be info we have not been party to,  up to now.

If I remember correctly there was a lot of discussion about who had drawn up the e-fits of Smithman, as the Smiths were not supposed to have seen his face clearly. AR said Smithman was a revelation. He  said the Smiths had seen a man carrying a child and that the e-fits  had been draw with the help of witnesses, but never actually said those witnesses were the Smiths AND he never said the Smiths were the only witnesses to see a man carrying a child.

Is it possible that somewhere in the non-published PJ documents, or the information the McCanns suppressed,  there are actually other sightings of a man with child and that witnesses other than the Smiths  drew up the e-fits of a man carrying a child? Maybe the Smiths fabricated their sighting as TB thinks, BUT maybe there was a man seen carrying a child by other people.  Perhaps Smithman is a misnomer?

AR also said the phone records were important. Perhaps phone pings from a certain individual (man carrying child, on phone,  speaking English) , put him exactly where a different holiday maker witnessed a man carrying a child, placed him on  this scrub land, show him moving  off  quickly?

I still think the McCanns know exactly what happened, but it could easily have been someone else carrying the child away. Kate's  phrase "they've taken her", if it was ever said, is most bizarre.

Was Sergei Malinka completely ruled out? He's not dissimilar to the second e-fit although perhaps a little young and was  there not a discussion  of him being on the phone to RM from 10-10:30?

As an aside, I have no idea if Tannerman existed, or was a necessary invention of JT's to divert attention, BUT I find it strange that  a lot of people dismiss  AR's Tannerman on the grounds no-one has 6 year old PJ's. I  have 3 daughters with 6.5 years between them. They grew very quickly and rarely  wore clothes out  and I would have been able to produce my eldest's 6 year old PJ's no problem, as my youngest would be wearing them.

Finally,  drug traffickers tend to have money and cars (round where I live  they have really , really nice cars), so is it likely drug traffickers would walk/carry anything, anywhere? Even their minions have transport.

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Re: Farce: Phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers

Post by Woofer on 06.06.14 11:41

Anyhow - why would drug traffickers murder a child and then hang around for an hour while cadaver odour developed, be flat enough to hide behind the bedroom door when GM looked in, then pick up the dead child and skiddadle out of it ...... oh, and, before leaving, giving the apartment a deep clean to get rid of all traces of themselves.

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Re: Farce: Phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers

Post by Woofer on 06.06.14 11:48

@ FH  - Good points :-

"Was Sergei Malinka completely ruled out? He's not dissimilar to the second e-fit although perhaps a little young and was  there not a discussion  of him being on the phone to RM from 10-10:30? "  and RM - both of them lived nearby

"Finally,  drug traffickers tend to have money and cars (round where I live  they have really , really nice cars), so is it likely drug traffickers would walk/carry anything, anywhere? Even their minions have transport." - excellent point.

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Re: Farce: Phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers

Post by joyce1938 on 06.06.14 11:52

Hi ,the pyjamas of the child we were shown in sketch are nothing like the ones we saw held up from M and a spencers ,thet looked more like fleece over clothes ,you might use  over p j if cold night . So what ever it doesn't match what we have been led to believe she was wearing  that night,dont know what to believe anymore. joyce1938

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Re: Farce: Phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers

Post by noddy100 on 06.06.14 12:00

I wondered initially if Smithman was a panic set up as GM thought that perhaps Jez Wilkins had seen tannerman who was in fact genuinely carrying MM

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Re: Farce: Phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers

Post by noddy100 on 06.06.14 12:03

DRug traffickers take risks in their line of business but not that sort of risk!

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Re: Farce: Phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers

Post by XTC on 06.06.14 12:23

@Cheshire Cat wrote:Another article which I feel merits its own thread. It's another one of those 'unhelpful' articles.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/06/phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers.html

English Police say that Maddie McCann assassins are Portuguese and are involved in drug trafficking

by Tânia Laranjo/Rui Pando Gomes

They are Portuguese and have a criminal record for drug trafficking. The English police states that they assaulted the apartment at the Ocean Club resort, in Lagos, and killed Madeleine McCann on 3 May 2007.

The phone calls made before and after the crime were used as evidence to support the searches that have been ongoing since Monday.

Scotland Yard also ensures that there is a British witness who saw one of the men carrying a child in his arms up to the wasteland, situated less than 500 meters from the resort. The British say that he fled, but before he was able to bury the girl's cadaver.

They want to hear the three suspects, but they still lack the evidence to support the claim.

“Those who are going to commit a robbery do not travel on foot and they will not abandon a body so close to the crime scene. Moreover, there were no signs of forced entry at the apartment”, said Gonçalo Amaral, the former PJ inspector who investigated the case and considers that this new theory is not credible.

This version is, incidentally, one among others contained in the letter rogatory which determined that the searches would take place. Though it is the strongest, the British open the door to other possibilities. Other five suspects are listed, they also have a criminal record for theft. 

Seven years after the disappearance, the British police now guarantees to the Public Prosecutor's Office that their claim was well founded. The description given by a British holidaymaker coincides with one of the suspects who lives nearby. The woman saw him speaking in English on the phone, as he passed, carrying the child in his arms.

in Correio da Manhã, June 6, 2014
In my opinion you candismiss this whole atricle by the sentence benath:

" Scotland Yard also ensures that there is a British witness who saw one of the men carrying a child in his arms up to the wasteland, situated less than 500 meters from the resort. The British say that he fled, but before he was able to bury the girl's cadaver.
"

So where is the girl's cadaver as he has just fled? It shpould have lain there for 7 years.

Oh- hang on a minute though he could have come back for it when the coast was clear say after the case was closed. Complete tosh!

There will be many more articles like this in the next few weeks I fear. Possibly from a certain source.

Blacksmiths latest article is spot on. Because the MSM couldn't be **sed to read the files in the first place they are now relying on title tattle
from the web and making stories up from that - pro stories or anti stories any will do.

I hope SY are laughing at this tale. If they aren't then you know which way this is going.

p.s. The US Security Services are designing software to detect " sarcastic comments " on Twitter etc. They should in my humble opinion
design software for irony ( as apparently Americans don't do irony) and then test the system on all the web traffic re: The Disappearance of Madeleine McCann. That will be the ultimate test for this system.

p.p.s. Re: Unknowns in the PJ files.

Does anyone think that possibly soil samples were recovered from 5a or the Scenic or shoes and this has what has led them to dig where they are digging?

Also if following telephone times and pings can they track by time and distance travelled between calls? For example if I make a call  from my mobile at point A and make another call from the same phone at point B would that indicate approximately the distance I have walked between calls from point A to B?











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Re: Farce: Phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers

Post by j.rob on 06.06.14 12:26

If you look at the people that the McCanns surrounded themselves with following their daughter's disappearance, they are not the most savoury of characters. Experts in money laundering, crooked private detective/s - some of them verging on gangsters (if not gangsters). The haste with which Gerry's brother set up the Fund. 

Money always seemed to be a big motive, imo. As long as it was other people's money. Were they accommodated free or at least at reduced cost for some of the time after Madeleine's disappearance? They certainly carried on using the creche for the twins which, I do believe, was even kept open on some Saturdays (change-over day so usually closed) especially for the twins? I bet this was a cut-price deal, if not free, seeing as the McCann's had an aversion to spending money on childcare. 

I have also read that the Ocean Club provided them with free food, meals and wine. Not sure what the exact deal was. 

But it is notable in Kate's book that one day she writes that they had to pick up the twins themselves from the creche! As though somehow having gained celebrity status as parents of an abducted child the couple would henceforth be waited upon by servants and butlers and handled with kid gloves!

Page 111: "When lunchtime came, Gerry and I were in the middle of another meeting when we discovered there was no on around to collect Sean and Amelie. We had to interrupt proceedings and to the Toddler Club ourselves, phoning round our friends and family en route to try to get somebody who wasn't too far away to come back and give them their lunch."

Yes - child-care was never the Mcs forte, not even having lunch with your children!

So it's all follow the money with the MT. 

Why did Kate cry out 'they have taken her' that evening, as reported by eye-witnesses. Why did she tell Yvette Martin, the social worker, that a couple had taken Madeleine?

It's all so dodgy.

So I would not be surprised at all if 'it' - whatever exactly 'it' is -  involved some kind of cocktail of drugs (prescription or otherwise) trafficking, sex, abuse, pornography, money laundering (The Fund) profiting from crime.........

....have I missed anything out?

The McCanns themselves and their friends often cited paedaphilia as a motive for the abduction. Which always struck me as odd. Until I read more about the case. 

Just theorizing.

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Re: Farce: Phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers

Post by riskybuisness on 06.06.14 12:38

If drugs are in the equation.  Then may be that's how she dies by accidentally getting hold of them.  Now in "theory"  the group have a dead drugged infant - All who are involved are in it up to their necks - the dealers and any of the group for whom the drugs were for.  All would have to work together to get her out or loose everything.  Just a theory - sounds like a fiction plot for book. 

I have never thought that any of the group deliberately harmed her - off course I may be proved wrong.

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Re: Farce: Phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers

Post by CynicAl on 06.06.14 12:44

@Cheshire Cat wrote:Another article which I feel merits its own thread. It's another one of those 'unhelpful' articles.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/06/phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers.html

English Police say that Maddie McCann assassins are Portuguese and are involved in drug trafficking

by Tânia Laranjo/Rui Pando Gomes

They are Portuguese and have a criminal record for drug trafficking. The English police states that they assaulted the apartment at the Ocean Club resort, in Lagos, and killed Madeleine McCann on 3 May 2007.

The phone calls made before and after the crime were used as evidence to support the searches that have been ongoing since Monday.

Scotland Yard also ensures that there is a British witness who saw one of the men carrying a child in his arms up to the wasteland, situated less than 500 meters from the resort. The British say that he fled, but before he was able to bury the girl's cadaver.

They want to hear the three suspects, but they still lack the evidence to support the claim.

“Those who are going to commit a robbery do not travel on foot and they will not abandon a body so close to the crime scene. Moreover, there were no signs of forced entry at the apartment”, said Gonçalo Amaral, the former PJ inspector who investigated the case and considers that this new theory is not credible.

This version is, incidentally, one among others contained in the letter rogatory which determined that the searches would take place. Though it is the strongest, the British open the door to other possibilities. Other five suspects are listed, they also have a criminal record for theft. 

Seven years after the disappearance, the British police now guarantees to the Public Prosecutor's Office that their claim was well founded. The description given by a British holidaymaker coincides with one of the suspects who lives nearby. The woman saw him speaking in English on the phone, as he passed, carrying the child in his arms.

in Correio da Manhã, June 6, 2014

Actually, this is good news indeed, if true. In fact, it's progress. I'll explain why in a moment.

Initial thoughts on the report, and I'm aware some of them may be just pedantic responses to statements which are 'lost in translation.'

Opening line: 'They are Portuguese and have a criminal record for drug trafficking.' That doesn't make them 'drug traffickers.' It also doesn't necessarily follow that ALL of them have that criminal record. They might have a very diverse criminal history. They might, in fact, be well known locally for being 'facilitators' of all things murky. Well known to people, perhaps, who have the initials RM, SM, MW, EM. Well known for supplying special tablets that help 'party night' go a little faster for young English employees of those dreadful holiday resorts in Mediterranean climates.

Have many not said all along that the Mc's had to have help on the ground, and it sure as hell wasn't an MI5 clean up crew or a CIA wetwork team?

Those inclined to provide services and assistance in the underworld are rarely one-trick ponies.

Second line: '...assault on the apartment.' What assault? There wasn't an assault. There is precisely zero evidence of an assault. Nor a raid. Nor a burglary. If that gang was in that apartment, it's because someone intended for them to be there in such a way that they would not draw attention to themselves going in. I'm sure whoever organised it is looking back with hindsight and cursing themselves for lacking the genius of actually insisting on a staged burglary and a forced entry.

Third line: 'phone calls made before and after the crime...' OK, so SY has to have a very specific window that they can prove to the Portuguese authorities. They also have to be able to place and trace all those phone signals specifically. This means that they also know who - outside of the three - had contact within or without PDL. Because one thing is sure - even wannabe 'drug traffickers' who are aware that the police are watching out for them because of their 'criminal record' do not engage in escalated crime while still using their old mobile phones with speeddial entries in the contact book listing 'Henchman, Godfather, Kingpin, Hitter and Forensic Level Cleaner'. They didn't suddenly decide to turn their hand to burglarising a holiday apartment which is repeatedly (every 15-30 minutes) attended by adult tourists and occupied by children with occupied residencies above, below and around, at an 'active' time of the evening, as an act of sponteneity, luckily chancing on one with a door left open, and leaving everything except a single dead child. If they went in that apartment, they had a reason to be in that apartment - a reason that was fulfilled by the extremely careful removal of only one object.

The rest sort of descends into nonsense. The English female witness (hmmm) sees him carrying a child, clearly doing so in such a way that he draws attention, sees him enter the wasteland, and sees him flee.

BUT, on the bright side... to be specific SY must have a really astounding track on confirming the sighting. They have the witness location, giving the track of the suspect, and the godsend of all godsends, HE WAS ON THE PHONE AT THE TIME. Which means they've got pings like crazy, and either the unexplained witness saw him rush into the brush with a child and then scurry out in a hurry without one (no explanation for why the witness didn't think of raising the subject at the time) or the PJ, before SY, must have phone records demonstrating that the individual was indeed where the witness said, did indeed enter the snail area, and did indeed leave far too quickly to have performed the last rites and a burial.

Most important of all, out of the three suspects, the odds of all of them being dead are preposterous. They're alive, and able to speak. In fact, if this is legitimately in the media, then they've already been spoken to, because the PJ aren't waiting for SY to pitch up two weeks after it was leaked to the press and then gape in wonder at the 'To Let' sign hanging on the outside of the Henchman's Lair.

Even more important than that is that our 'suspect' is apparently as white as the Milky Bar Kid, easy to spot because he looks so much like GM, speaks perfect English in spite of being native Portuguese, and is not a dead Cape Verdean farmer. I can imagine that the PJ would also like to talk to him to see if there are any dots to be connected to how a formerly living Cape Verdean farmer managed to end up beneath a tractor a few inconvenient years ago. So we have a living, white, English speaking suspect who lives locally. Makes you wonder what the police are waiting for. But I'll bet money that he's known to someone with the initials RM.

GA kind of understated his response, although the article sets an interesting precedent for consulting GA for his opinion on the latest discoveries, demonstrating that Lisbon and the PJ will have no end of trouble keeping him quiet if they do happen to be whitewashing or coming up with anything less than a credible answer. He said that someone committing a burglary would not dispose of a body close to the crime scene. I think he's omitted to make reference to any cases where someone committing a burglary has EVER taken a body away for disposal in anything resembling a predictable, profile-able case of routine burglarising (other than bodysnatching, of course). He's also right that any degree of organised criminality targeting 5a - kidnap, murder, a threat against an indebted druggie, burglary, pedophile abduction - would almost certainly involve a vehicle.

This 'scenario', albeit the stuff of crimewriters dreams, does raise some very interesting points that we can take some encouragement from.

Logical deduction tells us that the Portuguese authorities are not bending over for just any old whim. They require convincing. The statement also says that this theory is one of several in the ILOR's. So, either the CPS and SY have formulated a laundry list of possible scenarios and gone with a lucky dip, or the reason for the number of scenarios presented to the authorities are not what the UK want to pursue per se, but rather the scenarios that they've seen an opportunity to rule out. Arguably they could pursue these AND keep the gruesome twosome duly informed on a stage by stage basis right up until they utter the words "so as you can see, we've pursued and exhausted every possibility, investigated every suspect and are right back to square one... which just leaves...."

There's another ray of hope too. The article, if it proved to be even partially accurate, actually rules nothing out. SY could well be digging holes all over Portugal looking for traces of three drug trafficking child-murdering burglars who dabble in budget undertaking and are exceptional cleaners. It seems that every time they dig a hole and look in it, there are a couple of little Portuguese guys that seem to look in it with them. Doesn't matter who SY are looking for traces of. If the PJ are looking for traces of Glaswegian or Liverpudlian, the British public, nor the McCann's, have any right whatsoever to that information, which is clearly protected by judicial secrecy.

One thing is sure. Something has made the Portuguese authorities agree to this outrageous and preposterous display, and I don't believe for a moment that it is plotlines from third rate pulp fiction novels that are securing their co-operation. I have to believe that in long careers all of these people have some degree of professional pride and conviction for their work. To make a mockery of it, to actively assist in facilitating the escape of the known perpetrators, or to blunder over the facts uncovered by a prior investigation and a team of sterling sniffers would be totally and utterly incredulous in the long term, not to mention insanely risky should the governments of either country be changed in the future for reformists who take a dim view of what has been happening.

So where does it leave us? Well, there is either a second white male who looks like GM and was wandering the streets of PDL clutching a child to his chest, we'll call him NotSmithman. Or there is only one, Smithman. Either way, for this story to be true there has to be a second witness, since the Smith testimonies make no mention of anyone speaking English on a mobile phone. The only thing that the 'story' does confirm - either as a cover story or as the real deal - is that SY are on the snail because of intelligence that tells them that something that they're desperately seeking is on, in, under or has been to the snail, and that something has a strong likelihood of having left a trace of itself.

The double affirmation of a Smithman or NotSmithman continues along the line of ruling out Tannerman. The insistence that the suspect was seen with a child, and witnessed (somehow) dumping said child in the vicinity of the snail before legging it, and looks like Smithman/GMLookalikeMan makes a whitewash less likely. Why? Because if whitewash was intended, in defence of the Mc's, and the 'investigation' was inevitably intended to draw a blank which was followed up by MBM being declared legally dead, with the fund to continue in private for those who believe the parents, the easiest way to achieve it would have been to affirm Tannerman, draw blanks with little or no further investigation, save £10m, let the fund continue to fundraise but extricate SY and UKGov from any obligation to expend further resources (in other words 'tell K&G that this is the end of the line, and to STFU and accept the SY exit strategy before we crucify them out of sheer irritation') and let it all go the way of Ben Needham.

It still appears AR is pursuing lines, whether they make sense to us or not, which take TM uncomfortably away from the accounts and suspects that they have pursued for seven years. That's like a symbolic removal of control, and whether it is a ruse or not, it clearly has them rattled. The radio silence of certain members of their intellectual advance team is utterly deafening.

And after all, a living suspect is fantastic news for those fearing a whitewash. You can't easily frame a living suspect when such a weight of evidence is already in the public arena and points in a wholly different direction. The only patsy for this case would be a dead patsy. It is almost certain that PDL itself harbours secrets pertaining to what happened last night. Personalities in local organised crime will inevitably know more than Nana Public, and they won't go down quietly for something they're stitched up for. In fact, even if they were facilitators rather than perpetrators, I doubt they were paid anything like enough money to go down for a murder rap while biting their tongue.

This, actually, necessarily brings us - if its true - closer to answers than we were yesterday, and would certainly make the discomfort level in Rothley more tangible, knotted by uncertainty.

Additional discrepancies to consider...

The suspect was carrying a 4 year old child... and talking on a mobile phone in English? How? Was this individual wearing a bluetooth headset? A wired headset? He was 'talking on the phone' while 'carrying the child in his arms.' Was his third arm holding the phone? If a headset was not visible, could he - wild idea - have been talking to the child? If he had a wired headset, what kind of wired headset? Common or garden, bundled in a box? Or tucked away professionally down a shirt? Was he speaking on a phone, or a radio pack? The answer to these questions yields at least three very pertinent profiles of the individual being sought, not all of which are compatible with 'local drug trafficker.'

And am I the only one incredulous at the idea that this town, smaller than my own sleepy rural paradise, is apparently brimming with drug traffickers, murderers, kidnappers, burglars, all known to the local police but protected by an invisible network of corruption and complicity, well-connected with lookouts and observers, facilitators, cleaners like you've never seen and so on. Makes the place sound like Bogota.

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Re: Farce: Phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers

Post by j.rob on 06.06.14 12:56

@noddy100 wrote:I wondered initially if Smithman was a panic set up as GM thought that perhaps Jez Wilkins had seen tannerman who was in fact genuinely carrying MM

I've sometimes wondered if 'Tannerman' was concocted by Jane Tanner as a decoy as Tannerman was, in actual fact, Jane Tanner carrying Madeleine. She needed to cover her tracks in case anyone had seen her. Plus create confusion.  Plus give herself a few alibis in the form of Gerry and Jez (even if they didn't see her - that just adds to the confusion I suppose). 

At one point Jane Tanner does say: 'I was carrying' in relation to Tannerman. And she is very vague about descriptions, I think even about the gender. 

I know there have been many analyses of how people lie, but the consensus seems to be that it is best to stick as closely as possible to a version of the truth. 

In the 'Madeleine was Here' reconstruction, she gives an incredibly unconvincing performance when she talks about how she walked up the road and saw the man carrying the child. She speaks very glibly saying words to the effect of  it was so obvious that what she saw was a man abducting a child. I find the whole episode entirely fake and it just screams out as being a complete con, imo.

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Re: Farce: Phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers

Post by Naz_Nomad on 06.06.14 13:05

@j.rob wrote:If you look at the people that the McCanns surrounded themselves with following their daughter's disappearance, they are not the most savoury of characters. Experts in money laundering, crooked private detective/s - some of them verging on gangsters (if not gangsters).....

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