Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

[Atomic Peanut]

In addition to the digs, they appear to be scrutinising the land in forensic detail. Finding something microscopic from 7 years ago would be immensely difficult given the number of people that have walked there since.
I suspect they are also looking for something that has been accidentally left much more recently. And I mean "much".

[noddy100]

I keep yelling at the telly for them to nip down the road and take Tito and Muzzy to 5A for a quick once-over. Seems such a wasted opportunity.

And, what would be the point of that ?  Will that yield a body ?

It's gone beyond 'death'.  
It is no longer about a body of evidence (that they have) it is about a body for evidence (this they are looking for).

If they do find something (trace of cadaver scent seems the most likely), is there any credible scenario that does NOT point the finger immediately and irrevocably at the parents?  Finding the body seems very unlikely (almost certainly moved), and finding blue-bags or toothbrushes equally so (they are too easy to dispose of in public bins). So cadaver trace seems to be the only thing that this 'dig' could find.  Won't be easy that's for sure - but perhaps that is what lies behind the cryptic comment from the McCanns about "find her DNA and prove it's Madeleine - then we will come out".    

An innocent person would assume that the most likely thing to be found was her body, and would be there - fearful that they do.  That's what made their comment so inappropriate. DNA...?  Who says that?!?

But if a body is WAS once there, then surely it is stretching the public's credulity too far to try and spin a story that despite the alerts in 5A and in the Scenic, and GA's conclusions, that some random burglar did it...?    Is the public that stupid?  Please tell me no...  !

I always wondered if the ring Madeleine had 'played' with had been on her and maybe got lost when she was moved and that's why they mentioned it

[annemab]

Nothing actually in the news about this today - could that mean anything? Do the media know something that they've been told not to reveal - are they waiting for an announcement? Or should I just get my tin hat? 

I know there's been no digging yet today but that didn't stop it from being in the news first thing yesterday and Monday...

[ChippyM]

According to  the DM the 'snail' area was not only a local pet cemetery but a 'former cabbage patch'.  So hopefully the scent of old cabbage won't confuse the sniffer dogs too much.

  The 'shaft' or hole they uncovered has also reportedly been there for 10 years according to locals. IMO it's likely that they found this hole and it's metal cover whilst doing the initial clearing for the GPR and they have to examine it, ie sifting the soil etc just because it's there. It may not
be what they are looking for though.

[ChippyM]

In addition to the digs, they appear to be scrutinising the land in forensic detail. Finding something microscopic from 7 years ago would be immensely difficult given the number of people that have walked there since.
I suspect they are also looking for something that has been accidentally left much more recently. And I mean "much".

 They could also be looking for soil that has been moved from one area to another, it would have a different composition and different plant matter in it to maybe the soil it is on top of....which would indicate something being covered up.  I would think that would count as possible supporting evidence if they find other things.

[HelenMeg]

If Smithman was GM who,  some of us think may have taken a decoy blonde girl for a walk to give credibility to abduction scenario, then nothing will be found. If the body went directly from apartment to freezer then nothing will be found.

[MrsC]

If Smithman was GM who,  some of us think may have taken a decoy blonde girl for a walk to give credibility to abduction scenario, then nothing will be found. If the body went directly from apartment to freezer then nothing will be found.

This sounds reasonable. GM knows nothing will be found, he always has done, hence the ubiquitous smirk.

[whatliesbehindthesofa]

If Smithman was GM who,  some of us think may have taken a decoy blonde girl for a walk to give credibility to abduction scenario, then nothing will be found. If the body went directly from apartment to freezer then nothing will be found.

As I don't agree with that theory at all, for me Scotland Yard are looking in exactly the right place.

[nglfi]

This may be slightly off topic but I just wondered if anyone can confirm something about the DNA issue - if a body is found, horrible to say but it will almost certainly be a skeleton. 
1) can DNA be extracted from a skeleton? 
2) if it can, can it be determined as Madeleine simply by taking samples from adult McCanns and comparing them?

I'm thinking about the issue some people have raised that the DNA samples sent back from the FSS or indeed from the Rothley pillowcase may have been dodgy.  I'm thinking that even if they were, it doesn't matter because if a skeleton or parts of a body which contain DNA are found, they can be confirmed with 99% certainty as being a relative of the McCanns.  And truly they have no way to argue their way out of that!  I think I've read somewhere that the PJ already have samples of the McCanns so it's too late for them to refuse to provide a sample anyway.

[Bishop Brennan]

If Smithman was GM who,  some of us think may have taken a decoy blonde girl for a walk to give credibility to abduction scenario, then nothing will be found. If the body went directly from apartment to freezer then nothing will be found.

As I don't agree with that theory at all, for me Scotland Yard are looking in exactly the right place.

For what? If you believe a body is buried there, then does that not suggest a 'burglar with a spade' story.

[MarleneP]

If Smithman was GM who,  some of us think may have taken a decoy blonde girl for a walk to give credibility to abduction scenario, then nothing will be found. If the body went directly from apartment to freezer then nothing will be found.

I can not believe in this faked abduction scenario. The actor would expect to be seen, otherwise the show would have been in vain. Then he would also have to expect that he would be recognized later due to its publicitiy show as a grieving father.

[Markus 2]

It is not yet known what led them to the specific area yesterday afternoon or what they found in the shaft.
Madeleine’s parents Kate, 46, and Gerry, 45, are being kept informed throughout the excavation work. They are said to be bracing themselves for ‘significant news’.
 
Wonder if this is an entrance to tunnels, locals say it has been there for ten years but why the tin covering. If you were burying something quick  or an animal you would dig a hole and just fill it in.

[whatliesbehindthesofa]

As I don't agree with that theory at all, for me Scotland Yard are looking in exactly the right place.

For what?  If you believe a body is buried there, then does that not suggest a 'burglar with a spade' story.  

No I don't believe a body is buried there, but one may have been temporarily hidden there.  In which case they need to test soil samples for traces of DNA, and so far it looks to me as if that is exactly what SY are doing.

[whatliesbehindthesofa]

I'm thinking about the issue some people have raised that the DNA samples sent back from the FSS or indeed from the Rothley pillowcase may have been dodgy.  I'm thinking that even if they were, it doesn't matter because if a skeleton or parts of a body which contain DNA are found, they can be confirmed with 99% certainty as being a relative of the McCanns.  And truly they have no way to argue their way out of that!  I think I've read somewhere that the PJ already have samples of the McCanns so it's too late for them to refuse to provide a sample anyway.

Great point. Even if they are not in possession of any of Madeleine's DNA, they can compare any DNA found to Kate, Gerry, and their children's DNA.

[cass7]

this bit of land how far is it away from the mw complex ? a fit person to walk , has it ever been used as a dumping ground in the past and cleaned up , odd clothes items , bags , bedding , fridges , freezers , all kinds of things , matresses ?

[PeterMac]

this bit of land how far is it away from the mw complex ? a fit person to walk , has it ever been used as a dumping ground in the past and cleaned up , odd clothes items , bags , bedding , fridges , freezers , all kinds of things , matresses ?

The photos are quite clear. Have a look back in the thread, there are mps and a good aerial photo.
And just out of interest - there is no MW complex

[whatliesbehindthesofa]

this bit of land how far is it away from the mw complex ? a fit person to walk , has it ever been used as a dumping ground in the past and cleaned up , odd clothes items , bags , bedding , fridges , freezers , all kinds of things , matresses ?

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I've calculated that at average walking speed for a male it should take between 6 and 7 minutes to walk from 5A to the area of scrubland being searched.

This is a possible route (image from Google Earth):

[Guest]

this bit of land how far is it away from the mw complex ? a fit person to walk , has it ever been used as a dumping ground in the past and cleaned up , odd clothes items , bags , bedding , fridges , freezers , all kinds of things , matresses ?

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I've calculated that at average walking speed for a male it should take between 6 and 7 minutes to walk from 5A to the area of scrubland being searched.

Is that factoring in an achilles injury, or not?

[MarleneP]

this bit of land how far is it away from the mw complex ? a fit person to walk , has it ever been used as a dumping ground in the past and cleaned up , odd clothes items , bags , bedding , fridges , freezers , all kinds of things , matresses ?

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I've calculated that at average walking speed for a male it should take between 6 and 7 minutes to walk from 5A to the area of scrubland being searched.

Is that factoring in an achilles injury, or not?

Do you think he has taken this injury  when he dug the hole in the afternoon?

[HelenMeg]

this bit of land how far is it away from the mw complex ? a fit person to walk , has it ever been used as a dumping ground in the past and cleaned up , odd clothes items , bags , bedding , fridges , freezers , all kinds of things , matresses ?

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I've calculated that at average walking speed for a male it should take between 6 and 7 minutes to walk from 5A to the area of scrubland being searched.

Is that factoring in an achilles injury, or not?

An achilles heel injury that 'heeled' within a few hours.

[Guest]

Do you think he has taken this injury  when he dug the hole in the afternoon?

I never thought of that. But I think it was probably bogus. I have had achilles injuries in the past and they are not the kind of thing that you can "run off" or that just go away spontaneously - I needed physiotherapy for mine. So he really should have just said twisted ankle, or something, and I really don't know why he didn't.

[whatliesbehindthesofa]

Is that factoring in an achilles injury, or not?

Not ;-)  But this is a guy who was seen to run to the pool and children's play area after the alert was given, so for him anything is possible! He has the healing powers of Wolverine apparently ;-)

[Guest]

Do you think he has taken this injury  when he dug the hole in the afternoon?

I never thought of that. But I think it was probably bogus. I have had achilles injuries in the past and they are not the kind of thing that you can "run off" or that just go away spontaneously - I needed physiotherapy for mine. So he really should have just said twisted ankle, or something, and I really don't know why he didn't.

To -sort of- 'incapacitate' himself totally, seeing that most of us would walk on with an ankle problem?

[phil_burton]

How would finding cadaver scent in a nearby field 7 years after the event put the McCanns in the frame when the cadaver scent was found in their apartment and that has disappeared from public consciousness?

[Guest]

How would finding cadaver scent in a nearby field 7 years after the event put the McCanns in the frame when the cadaver scent was found in their apartment and that has disappeared from public consciousness?

It would put paid to all the 'oh these dogs are so notoriously unreliable' claims by some people we have come to know over the years