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Ward of Court: Decision issued by Judge in Libel Trial June 1st 2014

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Re: Ward of Court: Decision issued by Judge in Libel Trial June 1st 2014

Post by Guest on 01.06.14 19:47

@Watching wrote:
@canada12 wrote:Seems to me what the judge is saying is that Gerry and Kate didn't have authorization to bring this action on Madeleine's behalf. She wants to see the authorization from the British court which would have allowed them to bring the action on Madeleine's behalf. If there was no authorization, then GA will be acquitted of the part of the court case that has to do with Madeleine. I don't think the judge is saying that Gerry and Kate can get the authorization after the fact. I think the judge is demanding to see proof that the court authorized them to take action on Madeleine's behalf when they started this libel action.

Ah Canada12 I see where you are coming from, and I believe you are right, so I take back my original post.  I think this part clarifies what you have said:

 During that period, Madeleine’s parents “shall arrange for the collection and documentation IN THE RECORDS of the British Court’s authorization for the bringing of this action on behalf of the minor Madeleine McCann”


The Judge is indeed it would seem giving them 30 days to collect the authorisation which requires to already be in existence for Mr & Mrs to proceed with this action on Maddie's behalf.
My interpretation of the text, just my opinion.
First all parties have to agree on a date.
Judge proposed June 16th.
It'll be delayed, I bet. Those 30 days to produce the 'papers' only start after that 'closing hearing with GMC's statement (in person?)

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Re: Ward of Court: Decision issued by Judge in Libel Trial June 1st 2014

Post by russiandoll on 01.06.14 19:48

Yes Canada12, that's my take on it, given the words AUTHORISATION and RECORDS.  The judge seems to me to be saying this to the Mcs :

   I have seen enough to convince me that you do not have the right to sue on behalf of Madeleine, however in fairness I am asking you to present me something from the court records in the UK to do with the wardship issue which shows me that a judge advised you , when you sought advice in this matter before bringing your libel action, that you had the right to do so. if you do not present me with this, then...

 Probably quite interested to see why a UK judge would read the matter differently, that is if a UK court was even consulted on the matter.

 She has batted the ball into court McCann [ well they like a bit of tennis]

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Re: Ward of Court: Decision issued by Judge in Libel Trial June 1st 2014

Post by NickE on 01.06.14 19:48

@Watching wrote:
@canada12 wrote:Seems to me what the judge is saying is that Gerry and Kate didn't have authorization to bring this action on Madeleine's behalf. She wants to see the authorization from the British court which would have allowed them to bring the action on Madeleine's behalf. If there was no authorization, then GA will be acquitted of the part of the court case that has to do with Madeleine. I don't think the judge is saying that Gerry and Kate can get the authorization after the fact. I think the judge is demanding to see proof that the court authorized them to take action on Madeleine's behalf when they started this libel action.

Ah Canada12 I see where you are coming from, and I believe you are right, so I take back my original post.  I think this part clarifies what you have said:

 During that period, Madeleine’s parents “shall arrange for the collection and documentation IN THE RECORDS of the British Court’s authorization for the bringing of this action on behalf of the minor Madeleine McCann”


The Judge is indeed it would seem giving them 30 days to collect the authorisation which requires to already be in existence for Mr & Mrs to proceed with this action on Maddie's behalf.


Did they get authorisation before taking this action, is the big question?
30 days from when?  16 June??

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Re: Ward of Court: Decision issued by Judge in Libel Trial June 1st 2014

Post by tiny on 01.06.14 19:48

Do they have to obtain this from justice hogg,shouldn't think she will say no somehow.

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Re: Ward of Court: Decision issued by Judge in Libel Trial June 1st 2014

Post by roy rovers on 01.06.14 19:53

Who advised the McCanns at the UK end? Was it CR?

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Re: Ward of Court: Decision issued by Judge in Libel Trial June 1st 2014

Post by canada12 on 01.06.14 19:57

Do we think GA already knows whether or not Kate and Gerry had received authorization from the British Courts to proceed on Madeleine's behalf? If he got the documents which pertained to Madeleine's WOCship, then perhaps he was also able to ascertain at the same time whether the court had given authorization for Kate and Gerry to represent Madeleine in the libel action? Is that possible? And if so - highly improbable the court would issue such a document retro actively, knowing that GA might already know it doesn't exist? All supposition on my part.

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Re: Ward of Court: Decision issued by Judge in Libel Trial June 1st 2014

Post by sallypelt on 01.06.14 19:58

I am a little confused, myself, as to what the McCann's can now bring to the court. It states that "The judge decided that Mr Amaral should present a certificate of the relevant British judicial ruling. That certificate was delivered to the Court on the 2nd of May, after a lengthy, expensive process".
So what else can the McCann's come up with if the British judicial ruling have already found in Dr Amaral's favour?


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Re: Ward of Court: Decision issued by Judge in Libel Trial June 1st 2014

Post by stargazer59 on 01.06.14 19:58

@canada12 wrote:Do we think GA would already know whether or not Kate and Gerry had received authorization from the British Courts to proceed on Madeleine's behalf? If he got the documents which pertained to Madeleine's WOCship, then perhaps he was also able to ascertain at the same time whether the court had given authorization for Kate and Gerry to represent Madeleine in the libel action? Is that possible?
Just what i was thinking !

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Re: Ward of Court: Decision issued by Judge in Libel Trial June 1st 2014

Post by sallypelt on 01.06.14 19:59

@canada12 wrote:Do we think GA would already know whether or not Kate and Gerry had received authorization from the British Courts to proceed on Madeleine's behalf? If he got the documents which pertained to Madeleine's WOCship, then perhaps he was also able to ascertain at the same time whether the court had given authorization for Kate and Gerry to represent Madeleine in the libel action? Is that possible?

Opps, canada, we appear to be on the same wave-length music 

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Re: Ward of Court: Decision issued by Judge in Libel Trial June 1st 2014

Post by SixMillionQuid on 01.06.14 20:00

@canada12 wrote:Do we think GA would already know whether or not Kate and Gerry had received authorization from the British Courts to proceed on Madeleine's behalf? If he got the documents which pertained to Madeleine's WOCship, then perhaps he was also able to ascertain at the same time whether the court had given authorization for Kate and Gerry to represent Madeleine in the libel action? Is that possible?

After LJ Hogg (?) made Madeleine Ward of Court things went quiet. So I'd be curious to see what Court documents they come up with from 2008 - 2009.

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Re: Ward of Court: Decision issued by Judge in Libel Trial June 1st 2014

Post by Guest on 01.06.14 20:02

@canada12 wrote:Seems to me what the judge is saying is that Gerry and Kate didn't have authorization to bring this action on Madeleine's behalf. She wants to see the authorization from the British court which would have allowed them to bring the action on Madeleine's behalf. If there was no authorization, then GA will be acquitted of the part of the court case that has to do with Madeleine. I don't think the judge is saying that Gerry and Kate can get the authorization after the fact. I think the judge is demanding to see proof that the court authorized them to take action on Madeleine's behalf when they started this libel action.

Yep, this is it exactly.

So Justice Hogg will not be able to retrospectively authorize the representation. The Portuguese judge will only accept records dated from before the libel case was launched. I'm betting on them not being able produce such a record. I also bet that the 16 June date will be delayed as long as possible for them to a) scramble together their next move and b) to delay any necessity of Gerry having to set foot on Portuguese soil.

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Re: Ward of Court: Decision issued by Judge in Libel Trial June 1st 2014

Post by Miraflores on 01.06.14 20:07

Kate and Gerry should have known this: wasn't there a previous case where they tried to act in Madeleine's name and couldn't because they had made her a Ward of Court? I can't remember what it was, was it the Accounts? Can someone help me out here?

Who was it who had her made a Ward of Court? None other than Kate and Gerry - whoops!

But re the Portuguese judges ruling - no doubt the McCanns will cry foul and say that they would have won if it hadn't been for a perverse decision by the said judge. Which goes along with the sardine munching police force.

Interesting times!

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Re: Ward of Court: Decision issued by Judge in Libel Trial June 1st 2014

Post by ShuBob on 01.06.14 20:09

@canada12 wrote:Do we think GA already knows whether or not Kate and Gerry had received authorization from the British Courts to proceed on Madeleine's behalf? If he got the documents which pertained to Madeleine's WOCship, then perhaps he was also able to ascertain at the same time whether the court had given authorization for Kate and Gerry to represent Madeleine in the libel action? Is that possible? And if so - highly improbable the court would issue such a document retro actively, knowing that GA might already know it doesn't exist? All supposition on my part.

Well, once Amaral raised the Wardship issue in court, that was the point the McCanns should have produced any evidence if they had it. I believe that tells it's own story.

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Re: Ward of Court: Decision issued by Judge in Libel Trial June 1st 2014

Post by sami on 01.06.14 20:10

@Miraflores wrote:Kate and Gerry should have known this: wasn't there a previous case where they tried to act in Madeleine's name and couldn't because they had made her a Ward of Court? I can't remember what it was, was it the Accounts? Can someone help me out here?

Who was it who had her made a Ward of Court? None other than Kate and Gerry - whoops!


I believe it occurred during the book banning trial.  That is why I was surprised when they continued with it during this trial.  Would ID not have advised them ?

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Re: Ward of Court: Decision issued by Judge in Libel Trial June 1st 2014

Post by Miraflores on 01.06.14 20:14

Absolutely no excuse then for trying to act in Madeleine's name if a Portuguese court had already said that it wasn't permissible.

I could understand if it had been a court case in the UK, where the rules may be different.

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Re: Ward of Court: Decision issued by Judge in Libel Trial June 1st 2014

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 01.06.14 20:26

If it is the case the ward of court issue has bitten them on the bum before suggests the UK courts/judges aren't helping the Mcs....

I have to say though that I'm a little fed up of the semantics/technicalities.  I really wish the UK/PT governments would put a stop to all this crap.

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Re: Ward of Court: Decision issued by Judge in Libel Trial June 1st 2014

Post by Mirage on 01.06.14 20:26

I am wondering if this libel suit could now be adjudged vexatious.

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Re: Ward of Court: Decision issued by Judge in Libel Trial June 1st 2014

Post by Guest on 01.06.14 20:28

@Mirage wrote:I am wondering if this libel suit could now be adjudged vexatious.

Well quite. Seeing as they have 'previous'...

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Re: Ward of Court: Decision issued by Judge in Libel Trial June 1st 2014

Post by missmar1 on 01.06.14 20:29

@Miraflores wrote:Kate and Gerry should have known this: wasn't there a previous case where they tried to act in Madeleine's name and couldn't because they had made her a Ward of Court? I can't remember what it was, was it the Accounts? Can someone help me out here?

Who was it who had her made a Ward of Court? None other than Kate and Gerry - whoops!

But re the Portuguese judges ruling - no doubt the McCanns will cry foul and say that they would have won if it hadn't been for a perverse decision by the said judge. Which goes along with the sardine munching police force.

Interesting times!
 I think it might be the right time for Clarence Mitchel to surface and earn any money ( donated by the public ) he may still be drawing from the search for Madeleine fund.   No doubt, imo, he will find a way to make this ruling look like another unfair blow for the poor Mccann's who were only trying to stop Mr Amaral from hindering the search for their daughter.

Eta, or possibly, this latest ruling may be buried out of sight of the UK public ?  I should also add that I dont know if CM is being paid out of the funds money so please remove admin if I'm wrong.

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Re: Ward of Court: Decision issued by Judge in Libel Trial June 1st 2014

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 01.06.14 20:29

@Mirage wrote:I am wondering if this libel suit could now be adjudged vexatious.

It is the very definition!   big grin 

denoting an action or the bringer of an action that is brought without sufficient grounds for winning, purely to cause annoyance to the defendant.

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Re: Ward of Court: Decision issued by Judge in Libel Trial June 1st 2014

Post by Miraflores on 01.06.14 20:30

Do they have the concept of vexatious litigation in Portugal?

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Re: Ward of Court: Decision issued by Judge in Libel Trial June 1st 2014

Post by russiandoll on 01.06.14 20:31

Why did ID not produce the relevant /required documentation when Amaral raised this issue with the court?

  There is a lively debate on twitter now about whether that judgment implies that the PT court will allow this authorisation in retrospect.. my reading of it is NO... the judge wants to see if UK authorisation was in existence when the case was brought to court, if not...

 The judge might throw the entire case out as vexatious for timewasting and the Mcs not going through the necessary process. Why has ID allowed them to do this ?

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Re: Ward of Court: Decision issued by Judge in Libel Trial June 1st 2014

Post by noddy100 on 01.06.14 20:34

Why was she made a ward of court?

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Re: Ward of Court: Decision issued by Judge in Libel Trial June 1st 2014

Post by Watching on 01.06.14 20:36

@NickE wrote:
@Watching wrote:
@canada12 wrote:Seems to me what the judge is saying is that Gerry and Kate didn't have authorization to bring this action on Madeleine's behalf. She wants to see the authorization from the British court which would have allowed them to bring the action on Madeleine's behalf. If there was no authorization, then GA will be acquitted of the part of the court case that has to do with Madeleine. I don't think the judge is saying that Gerry and Kate can get the authorization after the fact. I think the judge is demanding to see proof that the court authorized them to take action on Madeleine's behalf when they started this libel action.

Ah Canada12 I see where you are coming from, and I believe you are right, so I take back my original post.  I think this part clarifies what you have said:

 During that period, Madeleine’s parents “shall arrange for the collection and documentation IN THE RECORDS of the British Court’s authorization for the bringing of this action on behalf of the minor Madeleine McCann”


The Judge is indeed it would seem giving them 30 days to collect the authorisation which requires to already be in existence for Mr & Mrs to proceed with this action on Maddie's behalf.


Did they get authorisation before taking this action, is the big question?
30 days from when?  16 June??
The Judge is proposing the 16th June for closing arguments, but does state that the lawyers on either side can discuss/decide/come to agreement on this.  So within 30 days from whenever the date of the closing arguments for current proceedings, Mr & Mr will have to produce the documentation requested of them.

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Re: Ward of Court: Decision issued by Judge in Libel Trial June 1st 2014

Post by Mirage on 01.06.14 20:38

@TheTruthWillOut wrote:
@Mirage wrote:I am wondering if this libel suit could now be adjudged vexatious.

It is the very definition!   big grin 

denoting an action or the bringer of an action that is brought without sufficient grounds for winning, purely to cause annoyance to the defendant.

Especially when this quote comes back to haunt Kate McCann:
"He deserves to be miserable and feel fear"

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