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McCanns will NOT return to Portugal

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Re: McCanns will NOT return to Portugal

Post by stillsloppingout on 29.05.14 14:31

@Bishop Brennan wrote:
@tiny wrote:I am very puzzled about this dig,
why would they let the whole world and his wife
 know when and where this dig is going to be,what happened to the PJ  re  didn't want things splashed in the papers.

Maybe they are hoping that the PJ will lose patience and tell them to get lost - thereby saving SY the time, money and embarrassment of the up-coming white elephant hunt?
Maybe they just want a particular man and his wife to know !!!!!

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Re: McCanns will NOT return to Portugal

Post by Angelique on 29.05.14 14:37

@stillsloppingout wrote:
@Bishop Brennan wrote:
@tiny wrote:I am very puzzled about this dig,
why would they let the whole world and his wife
 know when and where this dig is going to be,what happened to the PJ  re  didn't want things splashed in the papers.

Maybe they are hoping that the PJ will lose patience and tell them to get lost - thereby saving SY the time, money and embarrassment of the up-coming white elephant hunt?
Maybe they just want a particular man and his wife to know !!!!!

But the man and his wife have just stated that they will not return. Is this chess mate?

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Re: McCanns will NOT return to Portugal

Post by tasprin on 29.05.14 14:39

The title of this thread, 'The McCanns will NOT return to Portugal' is reminiscent of 2008, when the McCanns and Tapas 7 would NOT return to Portugal for a reconstruction.

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Re: McCanns will NOT return to Portugal

Post by cass7 on 29.05.14 14:48

the uk public will take note of this , bit by bit press are dropping sly digs , kerry never had the money that the mcanns had yet she goes back to greece when asked bends over backwards for them , i read she gets on very well with south yorkshire police and is greatful for anything , people will remember , hope the press help joe public to remember too

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Re: McCanns will NOT return to Portugal

Post by tasprin on 29.05.14 14:59

@cass7 wrote:the uk public will take note of this , bit by bit press are dropping sly digs , kerry never had the money that the mcanns had yet she goes back to greece when asked bends over backwards for them , i read she gets on very well with south yorkshire police and is greatful for anything , people will remember , hope the press help joe public to remember too

No, there's no fund for Kerry, she pays for everything out of her own pocket and has travelled to Greece often. Not to meet lawyers, attend TV interviews or libel trials but to actively follow leads and physically search for Ben, as well as being there when the police were looking for his body.

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Re: McCanns will NOT return to Portugal

Post by canada12 on 29.05.14 15:18

So, it's just occured to me... what if the dig results in something of interest being found which contains DNA, which the McCanns supplied as belonging to Madeleine.

What if the DNA supplied by the McCanns was NOT Madeleine's DNA, and the PJ and SY have determined that it's not Madeleine's DNA, and yet the McCanns have given them DNA stating that it is.

What will Kate and Gerry say?

Interesting dilemma.

All supposition.

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Re: McCanns will NOT return to Portugal

Post by tiny on 29.05.14 15:26

Châtelaine wrote:Of course, they did test the twins DNA too. The FSS may not have had a standing reputation [and went into oblivion], but they were still able to carry out basic forensics ...

ETA it IS Madeleine's DNA, unless there's a third female natural child of Kate and Gerry. I think that's a bit far-thought, though.
So Gerry had to go to rothley for this pillowcase as there were no dna in Portugal, is that right.

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Re: McCanns will NOT return to Portugal

Post by petunia on 29.05.14 15:30

Very interesting Canada 12 i also wonder if anything is found,it will prove Madeleine was in Portugal 2007 or otherwise if you get my drift.

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Re: McCanns will NOT return to Portugal

Post by stillsloppingout on 29.05.14 15:35

@tiny wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:Of course, they did test the twins DNA too. The FSS may not have had a standing reputation [and went into oblivion], but they were still able to carry out basic forensics ...

ETA it IS Madeleine's DNA, unless there's a third female natural child of Kate and Gerry. I think that's a bit far-thought, though.
So Gerry had to go to rothley for this pillowcase as there were no dna in Portugal, is that right.
Yep There was more DNA from Maddie in my house than there was in app 3a . 

   Thats why if any items relating to that apartment , cloths cleaning products ,toothbrushes Beige [ possibly soiled ] trousers !! is discovered by the sniffer dogs ,then its game over , because even the best spin doctor could not invent a wholly innocent explanation as to why items have been buried in the local vicinity .

It is of my opinion , the dog reference is to make them sweat . the scent will still be there . it lasts just as pee on grass for at least seven years and that is in rainy climates . items buried i would say generations .

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Re: McCanns will NOT return to Portugal

Post by jeanmonroe on 29.05.14 15:59

@tiny wrote:I am very puzzled about this dig,
why would they let the whole world and his wife
 know when and where this dig is going to be,what happened to the PJ  re  didn't want things splashed in the papers.
-----------------------------------------------------------

"why would they (the Met?) let the whole world and his wife know when and WHERE this dig is going to be?"

Not a 'puzzle', really, imo.

The MET, not the PJ, (or maybe the PJ if 'directed' by the Met) imo, WILL 'find something' in one of THEIR 'identified' locations.

"something" that may have been surreptitiously 'placed' there by 'someone' within, say, the last three years. (when Grange 'started') by 'someone' who has 're-visited' PDL 'quietly' once or twice a year, since 2011.

Especially 'someone' who wasn't 'followed' 24/7 on a 'visit'

"Something" like say, an EXACT 'replica' pyjama set, a 'missing' child was SAID to have been wearing, so we're TOLD, as 'displayed' by a 'missing' child's parents, at numerous press conferences, months AFTER the time of the 'missing'  child's 'disappearance'  

Possibly, for good measure, even with a 'bit' of a 'missing' childs, or very close match, say, from a 'missing' childs siblings, DNA/blood on the pyjamas.

Knowing how the Met 'work', from first hand experience, there would be nothing 'puzzling' at all if THEY 'found' something, during THEIR 'digs'.

"A number of officers from Scotland Yard ARE 'HOPING' TO BE "INVOLVED" in the latest phase of activity", Mr Rowley said.

"We have some officers WHO WOULD "LIKE" TO BE 'HELPING" with that on the ground in Portugal, Mr Rowley said.

I bet 'some officers' are 'hoping to be involved', Mr Rowley, i just bet 'some officers' 'would like to help' to 'solve' this case!

STILL, at least this post was posted BEFORE 'something' was/is conveniently/expediently 'found' in the forthcoming 'digs' in Praia da Luz.

DO NOT BE 'SURPRISED'!

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Re: McCanns will NOT return to Portugal

Post by russiandoll on 29.05.14 16:26

There is next to zero chance that they will find a body imo, but they might find a pair of little girl's pyjamas.

 eta, the pyjamas which were worn by Madeleine McCann, which were not as described by her parents and held up on tv.

 Then there would be some questions needing answers.

 My money is on the police looking for a pair of pjs with long sleeves, as described in the Smithman sighting.

 I would give good money to see Clarrie  spin  that one.

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Re: McCanns will NOT return to Portugal

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 29.05.14 16:30

@canada12 wrote:So, it's just occured to me... what if the dig results in something of interest being found which contains DNA, which the McCanns supplied as belonging to Madeleine.

What if the DNA supplied by the McCanns was NOT Madeleine's DNA, and the PJ and SY have determined that it's not Madeleine's DNA, and yet the McCanns have given them DNA stating that it is.

What will Kate and Gerry say?

Interesting dilemma.

All supposition.

The DNA supplied by the McCanns WAS Madeleine's DNA. There are references in this thread to the FSS reports showing that it WAS Madeleine's DNA.

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Re: McCanns will NOT return to Portugal

Post by TozerDerry on 29.05.14 16:42

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
@canada12 wrote:So, it's just occured to me... what if the dig results in something of interest being found which contains DNA, which the McCanns supplied as belonging to Madeleine.

What if the DNA supplied by the McCanns was NOT Madeleine's DNA, and the PJ and SY have determined that it's not Madeleine's DNA, and yet the McCanns have given them DNA stating that it is.

What will Kate and Gerry say?

Interesting dilemma.

All supposition.

The DNA supplied by the McCanns WAS Madeleine's DNA.  There are references in this thread to the FSS reports showing that it WAS Madeleine's DNA.
Do people here really believe that the samples that were given were not ones with Madeleine's DNA. I am no expert in DNA or in this case but what I have read about the samples confirms that the markers in Madeleine's sample confirm that they are from a natural child of the McCanns and exclude the Twins. This is science, not science fiction. Either they are from Madeleine or there is an unknown fourth child or someone is a century ahead of reconstructive DNA procedures!

Edited to say that the idea of it not being Madeleine's DNA IS one for Occam's Razor!

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Re: McCanns will NOT return to Portugal

Post by canada12 on 29.05.14 16:51

Madeleine was an IVF baby. More than one embryo was likely created. We don't know what happened to the other embryos. One possible explanation for there being other sources of DNA which are from a natural child of the McCanns and exclude the Twins.

ETA - if there were other embryos and they were frozen, the McCanns would have had access to them at any time. Correct?

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Re: McCanns will NOT return to Portugal

Post by SchrodingersBody on 29.05.14 17:02

If more DNA was found that was confirmed to be a child of Kate and Gerry, but wasn't "Madeleines" DNA, and wasn't Amelies. That then "proves" something is up, and would be enough to bring charges wouldn't it ?

It's a bit far fetched that they haven't got the right DNA, much more likely that they have the right DNA, but that legitimate sources were "cleaned up" locally, resulting in the trip back to Leicester.

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Re: McCanns will NOT return to Portugal

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 29.05.14 17:02

@canada12 wrote:Madeleine was an IVF baby. More than one embryo was likely created. We don't know what happened to the other embryos. One possible explanation for there being other sources of DNA which are from a natural child of the McCanns and exclude the Twins.

ETA - if there were other embryos and they were frozen, the McCanns would have had access to them at any time. Correct?

And somehow managed to grow those embryos into children that grow hair.

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Re: McCanns will NOT return to Portugal

Post by TozerDerry on 29.05.14 17:05

@canada12 wrote:Madeleine was an IVF baby. More than one embryo was likely created. We don't know what happened to the other embryos. One possible explanation for there being other sources of DNA which are from a natural child of the McCanns and exclude the Twins.

ETA - if there were other embryos and they were frozen, the McCanns would have had access to them at any time. Correct?
As I said, Occam's Razor. The level of conspiracy involved in such a scenario is such as to put it on par with theories that Madeleine was abducted by skilled operatives from the SAS.

Yes both are possible, but the chain of unlikelihood and uncertainty are so long that there better be more evidence than mere supposition that such an occurrence happened.

If one is to admit so far out of left field explanations, then there is little to discuss as we are at the boundaries of human credibility and all options are essentially open and none close making investigation impossible.

Consider the risk of Scotland Yard doing a DNA sweep of the home in Rothley and discovering a fourth child's DNA- unless of course Madeleine never lived there but lived with the fairies at the bottom of the garden!

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Re: McCanns will NOT return to Portugal

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 29.05.14 17:10

@TozerDerry wrote:
@canada12 wrote:Madeleine was an IVF baby. More than one embryo was likely created. We don't know what happened to the other embryos. One possible explanation for there being other sources of DNA which are from a natural child of the McCanns and exclude the Twins.

ETA - if there were other embryos and they were frozen, the McCanns would have had access to them at any time. Correct?
As I said, Occam's Razor. The level of conspiracy involved in such a scenario is such as to put it on par with theories that Madeleine was abducted by skilled operatives from the SAS.

Yes both are possible, but the chain of unlikelihood and uncertainty are so long that there better be more evidence than mere supposition that such an occurrence happened.

If one is to admit so far out of left field explanations, then there is little to discuss as we are at the boundaries of human credibility and all options are essentially open and none close making investigation impossible.

Consider the risk of Scotland Yard doing a DNA sweep of the home in Rothley and discovering a fourth child's DNA- unless of course Madeleine never lived there but lived with the fairies at the bottom of the garden!

Add to this that the McCanns didn't provide a test-tube containing cells, they provided a human hair from a pillowcase.

I'd suggest not wasting time on this, but when you do that somebody usually pops up with the reply "why don't you want us to talk about this, have you got a reason you want us to stop?" and "seems like we've hit a nerve", and the conspiracy theory grows.

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Re: McCanns will NOT return to Portugal

Post by TozerDerry on 29.05.14 17:31

This is an excellent example of Null Hypothesis.

Now I am pretty certain that the DNA offered was from Madeleine.

Let me assume the opposite and consider what I have to do as the evil schemer to ensure that in May 2007 there is DNA available from a non-Madeleine Source to give to the police to avoid her DNA being used.

Well in 2003 we need to access other unimplanted embryos and collect DNA from there and then allow that embryo to be turned into a whole child borne by a surrolgate mother at least until the child has hair long enough to look like that from a four year old.

Then we have to bar discovery. Whatever Madeleine did between 2003 and 2007 we need to expunge all records that might expose us. Her Vitamin K heel prick will still be in existence with her DNA on that. Anywhere she lived she would have shed cells, mucus and hair with identifiable DNA from the McCanns and the McCanns alone. All areas would have to be supercleaned, not just the flat in Portugal, for a simple vacuuming of the house in Rothley would allow DNA to be identified from all who lived there.

What has happened to this other child- it would take a massive conspiracy to conceal its existence whilst still maintaining contact.

Thge list goes on.

When suggested answers require such a high level of extreme action and coincidental lucky decision (the police could have gone alone to Rothley and discovered the chimera child DNA as well as Madeleine's) then all bets ARE OFF. It approaches abduction by aliens scenario- but then quite a high proportion of people believe in that and many also believe that they have been abducted. At that level there is no rational discourse.

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Re: McCanns will NOT return to Portugal

Post by russiandoll on 29.05.14 17:38

Sorry to interrupt you here TD, but I wonder if you would go to p 7 of the Occam's/not Occam's thread, read what I posted and give me your thoughts?  I would be very interested in your response.

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unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: McCanns will NOT return to Portugal

Post by canada12 on 29.05.14 17:45

Sorry, but as I understand it, the DNA provided by Gerry to the police, from the pillowcase in Rothley, was not a hair sample. It was DNA on the pillowcase.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm

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Re: McCanns will NOT return to Portugal

Post by canada12 on 29.05.14 17:47

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
@canada12 wrote:Madeleine was an IVF baby. More than one embryo was likely created. We don't know what happened to the other embryos. One possible explanation for there being other sources of DNA which are from a natural child of the McCanns and exclude the Twins.

ETA - if there were other embryos and they were frozen, the McCanns would have had access to them at any time. Correct?

And somehow managed to grow those embryos into children that grow hair.

Who said anything about hair? My query is about DNA. There was DNA provided on a pillowcase from Rothley.

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Re: McCanns will NOT return to Portugal

Post by noddy100 on 29.05.14 17:47

@canada12 wrote:Sorry, but as I understand it, the DNA provided by Gerry to the police, from the pillowcase in Rothley, was not a hair sample. It was DNA on the pillowcase.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm
Reading that could it be Amelie's ?

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Re: McCanns will NOT return to Portugal

Post by canada12 on 29.05.14 17:52

@noddy100 wrote:
@canada12 wrote:Sorry, but as I understand it, the DNA provided by Gerry to the police, from the pillowcase in Rothley, was not a hair sample. It was DNA on the pillowcase.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm
Reading that could it be Amelie's ?

That was the first assumption of the Forensic Scientist Lesley Ann Denton, but then she amended her findings to state that the DNA profile didn't match Amelie's, and therefore it was not Amelie's DNA.


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Re: McCanns will NOT return to Portugal

Post by TozerDerry on 29.05.14 17:59

@russiandoll wrote:Sorry to interrupt you here TD, but I wonder if you would go to p 7 of the Occam's/not Occam's thread, read what I posted and give me your thoughts?  I would be very interested in your response.
Have gone there. No little of this case and after some of the abuse there I am probably out of here. It does not seem to be a nice place. There is something about the internet that allows people to act in ways they would never do in real life. I have a simple rule- if people are rude and aggressive rather than rational and argumentative, then I do not waste time on them (unless i ma being paid to do so!)

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