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Now shown on Channel 5: 'THE McCANNS AND THE CONMAN'

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Re: Now shown on Channel 5: 'THE McCANNS AND THE CONMAN'

Post by jeanmonroe on 23.05.14 10:20

Halligen did not 'con' the 'fund''

In relation to his 'dealings' with the 'fund', (via NON Brian Kennedy?) he was paid £300,000 for work that the McCanns, themselves, and the 'fund' were 'happy with' and which was 'satisfactorily' carried out.

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Re: Now shown on Channel 5: 'THE McCANNS AND THE CONMAN'

Post by Doug D on 23.05.14 10:25

Endorsing cheques to someone else was long gone by this time and money laundering regs. and reporting had been in force for many years.

Transferring £500k to anybody by cheque is also probably unlikely, though not impossible and 'writing a cheque for £500k' could quite likely just be a figure of speech.

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Re: Now shown on Channel 5: 'THE McCANNS AND THE CONMAN'

Post by Tony Bennett on 23.05.14 10:39

@jeanmonroe wrote:Halligen did not 'con' the 'fund'.

In relation to his 'dealings' with the 'fund', (via NON Brian Kennedy?) he was paid £300,000 for work that the McCanns and the 'fund' were 'happy with' and which was 'satisfactorily' carried out.
@ jeanmonroe

The figure for Haliigen's fee quoted in this article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1231757/Madeleine-McCann-investigator-didnt-listen-ANY-tip-offs-given-hotline--squandered-500-000.html

was £500,000

PLUS EXPENSES.

There is a wel- sourced article (might be the same one IIRC) that puts Halligen's expenses for 'the first month' at nearly £50,000. I think the actual figure quoted was £46,000-and-something.

The total bill might well therefore be OVER £700,000. 

There are two very serious points here.

1. The McCann Team and the Fund Directors - in line with their much-trumpeted commitment to 'openness' and 'transparency' etc. etc. could simply publish a list of all transactions in and out of their account, which IIRC is with the NatWest. They could redact such a document to protect personal data relation to individuals of course   

2. Operation Grange would have the power to seize and inspect those accounts if they had a reasonable suspicon that a criminal offence might have been committed (e.g. money laundering). I wonder if they have exercised that power?

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Re: Now shown on Channel 5: 'THE McCANNS AND THE CONMAN'

Post by Guest on 23.05.14 11:16

Thank you, Doug D, I thought that was the case as the endorsement of cheques was very open to fraud.

I remember when I worked for a local council, someone reported the non-arrival of a rent allowance cheque. It turned out to have been cashed by an electrical goods shop owner who had accepted it in good faith from the person who had stolen it.

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Re: Now shown on Channel 5: 'THE McCANNS AND THE CONMAN'

Post by jeanmonroe on 23.05.14 11:26

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@jeanmonroe wrote:Halligen did not 'con' the 'fund'.

In relation to his 'dealings' with the 'fund', (via NON Brian Kennedy?) he was paid £300,000 for work that the McCanns and the 'fund' were 'happy with' and which was 'satisfactorily' carried out.
@ jeanmonroe

The figure for Haliigen's fee quoted in this article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1231757/Madeleine-McCann-investigator-didnt-listen-ANY-tip-offs-given-hotline--squandered-500-000.html

was £500,000

PLUS EXPENSES.

There is a wel- sourced article (might be the same one IIRC) that puts Halligen's expenses for 'the first month' at nearly £50,000. I think the actual figure quoted was £46,000-and-something.

The total bill might well therefore be OVER £700,000. 

There are two very serious points here.

1. The McCann Team and the Fund Directors - in line with their much-trumpeted commitment to 'openness' and 'transparency' etc. etc. could simply publish a list of all transactions in and out of their account, which IIRC is with the NatWest. They could redact such a document to protect personal data relation to individuals of course   

2. Operation Grange would have the power to seize and inspect those accounts if they had a reasonable suspicon that a criminal offence might have been committed (e.g. money laundering). I wonder if they have exercised that power?

I believe the 'contract' for Oakley International (Halligen) was originally for £500,000, negotiated with NON Brian Kennedy, but the 'contract' was terminated, amicably, at £300,000.

ISTBC, but that's my understanding.

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Re: Now shown on Channel 5: 'THE McCANNS AND THE CONMAN'

Post by Guest on 23.05.14 11:34

I'm waiting for the programme 'THE MCCANNS CONNED THE WORLD OUT OF 15 MILLION'

15 is probably being generous.

7 mill costs for Op Grange.

5 mil for Fund.

Say 3 mill for PJ.

This programme will be a cracker.

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Re: Now shown on Channel 5: 'THE McCANNS AND THE CONMAN'

Post by Guest on 23.05.14 11:34

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Thank you, Doug D, I thought that was the case as the endorsement of cheques was very open to fraud.

I remember when I worked for a local council, someone reported the non-arrival of a rent allowance cheque. It turned out to have been cashed by an electrical goods shop owner who had accepted it in good faith from the person who had stolen it.

Don't want to get too far from a fascinating topic, but how do these back street (and now very much high street) cheque cashing places work then?


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Re: Now shown on Channel 5: 'THE McCANNS AND THE CONMAN'

Post by Guest on 23.05.14 11:40

Thankfully I've never had to resort to one of those, Clay!

http://www.maxcroft.co.uk/ChequeCashing.aspx


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Re: Now shown on Channel 5: 'THE McCANNS AND THE CONMAN'

Post by Tony Bennett on 23.05.14 11:41

@jeanmonroe wrote:
I believe the 'contract' for Oakley International (Halligen) was originally for £500,000, negotiated with NON Brian Kennedy, but the 'contract' was terminated, amicably, at £300,000.

REPLY: You could be right about the payment only being £300,000, though I've seen many references to £500,000, and I would not be surprised, given what has come out about all Brian Kennedy's holding companies (sounds a bit like Robert Maxwell) , to learn that a sum of £500,000 had been deposited somewhere, by cheque, by BACS, or, who knows, in 'wads of fifties'.

The idea that the contract was terminated 'amicably', however, is wholly false.

Two mainstream newspapers reported on major and unseemly rows amongst Madeleines Fund's Directors regarding Halligen/Oakley - both published in August 2008, though I don't have the links right now.        


ISTBC, but that's my understanding.

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Re: Now shown on Channel 5: 'THE McCANNS AND THE CONMAN'

Post by Guest on 23.05.14 11:46

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Thankfully I've never had to resort to one of those, Clay!

http://www.maxcroft.co.uk/ChequeCashing.aspx


So it is possible then. Given the seeming credentials of the people involved it wouldn't surprise me to learn that exactly such a service was used!

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Re: Now shown on Channel 5: 'THE McCANNS AND THE CONMAN'

Post by Guest on 23.05.14 11:49

It's not third party cheques though. They are cheques in Joe Bloggs' name and he has to prove that's who he is. He can't go along with a cheque payable to Fred Smith with an endorsement to him on the back.

No doubt clever tricksters will find a way round any obstacle though.

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Re: Now shown on Channel 5: 'THE McCANNS AND THE CONMAN'

Post by jeanmonroe on 23.05.14 12:14

'amicably' = 'poetic licence'  laughat 

I wonder if 'our' Kev will 'spill the beans' about what was 'discussed' during his 'cosy, kitchen chats' with Gerry and Kate at Rothley Manor.

 winkwink winkwink 

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Re: Now shown on Channel 5: 'THE McCANNS AND THE CONMAN'

Post by Angelique on 23.05.14 12:16

This seems very timely - it could go either way.

I am getting the feeling though that we may be travelling in the wrong direction - it could well be "those poor McCanns" they have suffered so much and now we hear they were conned - let's donate some more.

TM must have "last resort" contingency plans if the Fund drops to a certain level - maybe this is one of them?

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Re: Now shown on Channel 5: 'THE McCANNS AND THE CONMAN'

Post by Guest on 23.05.14 12:43

@ShuBob wrote:Richard Desmond owns Channel 5.

Just saying.....

ShuBob, he's sold it:

Richard Desmond sells Channel 5 to US media group Viacom 'for £450m'

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/richard-desmond-sells-channel-5-3483007

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Re: Now shown on Channel 5: 'THE McCANNS AND THE CONMAN'

Post by ShuBob on 23.05.14 12:45

@jeanmonroe wrote:Halligen did not 'con' the 'fund''

In relation to his 'dealings' with the 'fund', (via NON Brian Kennedy?) he was paid £300,000 for work that the McCanns, themselves, and the 'fund' were 'happy with' and which was 'satisfactorily' carried out.

We all know Clarence Mitchell is a walking contradiction. Having initially claimed Halligen did not con the fund, on the announcement of Halligen's arrest, Clarence was quoted as saying he was happy with the arrest. How, why would he be "happy" about it?

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Re: Now shown on Channel 5: 'THE McCANNS AND THE CONMAN'

Post by Tony Bennett on 23.05.14 12:45

@Angelique wrote: ...it could well be "those poor McCanns" they have suffered so much and now we hear they were conned -
Wait a moment.

Suppose the programme convincingly demonstrates that Kevin Halligen has a proven track record of acting as a serial liar, comman and fraudster (not too hard).

And suppose the McCanns are successfully portrayed in the same programme as being innocent, naive victims who were inexprienced as they'd had no previous experience of finding a missing child etc. etc. (again not too hard).

Suppose that indeed Halligen was paid £500,000, £700,000, or £300,000 or whatever on the basis of e.g.

* wholly false represenatations about what he could offer

* a stream of lies about what he was actually doing

* falsely claiming that he had paid various suppliers of services to him and his Oakley company when in fact he had paid them nothing.

All of the above are effectively proved, and in spades, if Hollingsworth and the other articles about Halligen written in 2009 are at least 50% correct.


IT MUST FOLLOW FROM ALL OF THE ABOVE that Kevin Halligen has knowingly made fraudulent representations, thus gaining 'a pecuniary advantage by deception' - and should therefore be arrested, charged, convicted if guilty, and then sentenced for his crimes?

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Re: Now shown on Channel 5: 'THE McCANNS AND THE CONMAN'

Post by ShuBob on 23.05.14 12:47

Cherry Blossom wrote:
@ShuBob wrote:Richard Desmond owns Channel 5.

Just saying.....

ShuBob, he's sold it:

Richard Desmond sells Channel 5 to US media group Viacom 'for £450m'

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/richard-desmond-sells-channel-5-3483007

Thanks a lot for that.

According to dates, it was sold earlier this month. I believe such a programme would have been made some time ago. It's interesting in itself that the new owners would want to air such a programme,

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Re: Now shown on Channel 5: 'THE McCANNS AND THE CONMAN'

Post by The Rooster on 23.05.14 12:51

Who in their right mind would hand over £700K representing a serious percentage of the fund accumulated to a Johnny come lately, for services of a somewhat secretive nature.  I'm not buying the search scenario.  That's far to clean an explanation.  So what was the real reason?

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Re: Now shown on Channel 5: 'THE McCANNS AND THE CONMAN'

Post by ultimaThule on 23.05.14 12:58

Given that the payment to Halligan is alleged to have 'rested' in one of non-uncle Brian Kennedy's holding companies before being transferred to another, it could be he owns one of those previously back street, now high street, cheque cashing agencies, Clay.

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Re: Now shown on Channel 5: 'THE McCANNS AND THE CONMAN'

Post by ShuBob on 23.05.14 13:01

Here's what Clarence Mitchell is quoted to have said in November 2009 re Halligen's arrest:

Family spokesman Mr Mitchell said: "We are glad this man was tracked down. It is distressing someone would seek to make money out of Madeleine."

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id285.html

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Re: Now shown on Channel 5: 'THE McCANNS AND THE CONMAN'

Post by ultimaThule on 23.05.14 13:06

@Tony Bennett wrote:
< snip >

Suppose the programme convincingly demonstrates that Kevin Halligen has a proven track record of acting as a serial liar, comman and fraudster (not too hard).

And suppose the McCanns are successfully portrayed in the same programme as being innocent, naive victims who were inexprienced as they'd had no previous experience of finding a missing child etc. etc. (again not too hard).

Suppose that indeed Halligen was paid £500,000, £700,000, or £300,000 or whatever on the basis of e.g.

* wholly false represenatations about what he could offer

* a stream of lies about what he was actually doing

* falsely claiming that he had paid various suppliers of services to him and his Oakley company when in fact he had paid them nothing.

All of the above are effectively proved, and in spades, if Hollingsworth and the other articles about Halligen written in 2009 are at least 50% correct.


IT MUST FOLLOW FROM ALL OF THE ABOVE that Kevin Halligen has knowingly made fraudulent representations, thus gaining 'a pecuniary advantage by deception' - and should therefore be arrested, charged, convicted if guilty, and then sentenced for his crimes?


It's my understanding that in order for Halligan to be arrested in connection with any crimes, other than motoring offences or similar, he may have allegedly committed, it's necessary for one or more of his victims to make a formal complaint to the police.

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Re: Now shown on Channel 5: 'THE McCANNS AND THE CONMAN'

Post by jeanmonroe on 23.05.14 13:08

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Angelique wrote: ...it could well be "those poor McCanns" they have suffered so much and now we hear they were conned -
Wait a moment.

Suppose the programme convincingly demonstrates that Kevin Halligen has a proven track record of acting as a serial liar, comman and fraudster (not too hard).

And suppose the McCanns are successfully portrayed in the same programme as being innocent, naive victims who were inexprienced as they'd had no previous experience of finding a missing child etc. etc. (again not too hard).

Suppose that indeed Halligen was paid £500,000, £700,000, or £300,000 or whatever on the basis of e.g.

* wholly false represenatations about what he could offer

* a stream of lies about what he was actually doing

* falsely claiming that he had paid various suppliers of services to him and his Oakley company when in fact he had paid them nothing.

All of the above are effectively proved, and in spades, if Hollingsworth and the other articles about Halligen written in 2009 are at least 50% correct.


IT MUST FOLLOW FROM ALL OF THE ABOVE that Kevin Halligen has knowingly made fraudulent representations, thus gaining 'a pecuniary advantage by deception' - and should therefore be arrested, charged, convicted if guilty, and then sentenced for his crimes?

All of the above 'might' be true..........HOWEVER we have THIS:

Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for Mr and Mrs McCann, said: "Due diligence was carried out before Oakley were employed on behalf of the Madeleine fund. Money was paid for work satisfactorily carried out in the early months but questions were raised later on and the contract was terminated. The matter is considered closed."

"DUE DILIGENCE WAS 'CARRIED OUT' BEFORE OAKLEY INTERNATIONAL WERE 'EMPLOYED'"

So, McCanns can NOT 'claim' naivety, and subjected to having been 'conned' by Oakley Int, in any way, shape or form.

They only 'claim' naivety when it comes to leaving, diliberately and consciously, THREE children, all under 4 years old, alone, in a totally unlocked/unsecured apartment, out of sight and earshot, when they went out, every night to the tapas restaurant, to dine with their friends, who had also left all their young children ALONE in their apartments, the night Madeleine 'disappeared'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
eta: This article drew a prompt response from the McCanns on their official website:
Quote:
Date Released: 26/08/2008

In the light of articles in some UK Sunday newspapers this weekend, we feel it is appropriate to comment briefly on our relationship with the investigation company Oakley International.

We appointed them several months ago to investigate the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. We continue to work with them to this end. The working relationship is managed by Brian Kennedy, who also confirms the relationship with Oakley International continues to be good and that it remains entirely focused on the search for Madeleine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

They can hardly 'claim' they were 'conned' by Oakley International, can they, after putting the above statement on their OFM website?

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Re: Now shown on Channel 5: 'THE McCANNS AND THE CONMAN'

Post by jeanmonroe on 23.05.14 13:12

@ShuBob wrote:Here's what Clarence Mitchell is quoted to have said in November 2009 re Halligen's arrest:

Family spokesman Mr Mitchell said: "We are glad this man was tracked down. It is distressing someone would seek to make money out of Madeleine."

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id285.html

Anyone care to 'remind' Mitchell how much money he has personally 'made' out of Madeleine?

('retainer' from the 'fund' £28,000pa!)

THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE 'PINK', I WOULD SAY!

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Re: Now shown on Channel 5: 'THE McCANNS AND THE CONMAN'

Post by ShuBob on 23.05.14 13:28

@jeanmonroe wrote:
@ShuBob wrote:Here's what Clarence Mitchell is quoted to have said in November 2009 re Halligen's arrest:

Family spokesman Mr Mitchell said: "We are glad this man was tracked down. It is distressing someone would seek to make money out of Madeleine."

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id285.html

Anyone care to 'remind' Mitchell how much money he has personally 'made' out of Madeleine?

('retainer' from the 'fund' £28,000pa!)

THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE 'PINK', I WOULD SAY!

Like I said before, Mr Mitchell is a walking contradiction. Calling him a hypocrite doesn't begin to describe what he is.

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MAN or MEN

Post by PeterMac on 23.05.14 15:35

Shouldn't it read
The McCanns and the con MEN

Then they could include the whole list
PIs
dodgy lawyers
Spokes-people sponging off Madeleine's short life
Lawyers pretending to run a proper "Fund" but failing to do due diligence on any of the above
and so on

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