Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity

Tony Bennett wrote:

PeterMac wrote:http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/madeleine-police-move-to-next-phase

Mr Rowley echoed Kate McCann's calls for restraint in media coverage of the case, and said: "I want to be able to go back to Kate and Gerry at some stage in the future and tell them we've got to the bottom of this, or second best is to go back to them and say we've turned over every stone and we can't get to an answer sometimes."

IMO the words in red tell us precisely where the Met are heading with this series of very public performances.

There will be lots more pictures and photo opportunities.

But nothing at the end of it

Riddlemeree wrote:Hello - long time lurker here - my thought is what if : the police KNOW ... Because let's face it ... There are plenty of pointers...but they need a caste iron case because the core suspects are lawyered up to the eyebrows. How would they play it ? Especially since they know what suspects are capable of. What if they needed core suspects to not know they were in the spotlight - but every so often they wanted to give them a poke, a frisson of fear ... Might they play the most incredible media game - putting Holmes like clues into their press releases which will later jump out as "we knew all along " pointers while deluging the media with distractions . The suspects will be on a roller coaster of wondering whether they have finally been fingered or whether the police are still on side chasing up all sorts of red herrings . It may turn out. The police have played a blinder ... All IMHO.

Bellisa wrote:A source close to the family say Madeleines parents are buoyed by this latest news.

gbwales wrote:

Mr Rowley did not give details about what the next phase would involve, but said officers were working through every credible line of inquiry as part of the "slog of a major investigation".

In fairness, they have pretty much exhausted all the incredible lines of inquiry...

endgame wrote:

Riddlemeree wrote:Hello - long time lurker here - my thought is what if : the police KNOW ... Because let's face it ... There are plenty of pointers...but they need a caste iron case because the core suspects are lawyered up to the eyebrows. How would they play it ? Especially since they know what suspects are capable of. What if they needed core suspects to not know they were in the spotlight - but every so often they wanted to give them a poke, a frisson of fear ... Might they play the most incredible media game - putting Holmes like clues into their press releases which will later jump out as "we knew all along " pointers while deluging the media with distractions . The suspects will be on a roller coaster of wondering whether they have finally been fingered or whether the police are still on side chasing up all sorts of red herrings . It may turn out. The police have played a blinder ... All IMHO.

Welcome Riddlemeree. Without wishing to dampen your enthusiasm and, of course everything is possible, I can only ask if you can name a single case where this technique has been used and used successfully. I can't. Most police investigations follow a path of collecting evidence, following leads created by that evidence, forming conclusions from that evidence and when those conclusions  are certain enough, charging someone with the crime. I can see no reason to vary this tried and trusted technique with reference to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann

Tony Bennett wrote:I've just seen the BBC's news report on Mark Rowley's press conference and statement.

They are putting 'Smithman' at the very heart of their news story, thus:

Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity


Thursday 3 May 2007: Timeline

• 20:30 Kate and Gerry McCann leave their apartment to have dinner at a Tapas bar
  
• 21:05 Gerry McCann checks on Madeleine and her siblings
  
• 22:00 A man is seen carrying a child wearing pyjamas heading towards the ocean
  
• 22:00 Kate McCann raises the alarm that Madeleine has gone missing
  

Yet, never mind all the many other doubts about the validity of the Smiths' claimed sighting, DCI Redwood on CrimeWatch on 14 October 2013 very deliberately led the viewing public to believe that members of this 'Irish family' were capable of producing two e-fits (both of different men, so it seems), despite the fact that all the three Smiths who gave statements to the PJ said they didn't see his face properly because it was dark, his face was hidden, we only saw him for a second or two, etc. etc.   

How is it that some, even on this forum, can swallow such balderdash - hook, line and sinker?

Riddlemeree wrote:Hello - long time lurker here - my thought is what if : the police KNOW ... Because let's face it ... There are plenty of pointers...but they need a caste iron case because the core suspects are lawyered up to the eyebrows. How would they play it ? Especially since they know what suspects are capable of. What if they needed core suspects to not know they were in the spotlight - but every so often they wanted to give them a poke, a frisson of fear ... Might they play the most incredible media game - putting Holmes like clues into their press releases which will later jump out as "we knew all along " pointers while deluging the media with distractions . The suspects will be on a roller coaster of wondering whether they have finally been fingered or whether the police are still on side chasing up all sorts of red herrings . It may turn out. The police have played a blinder ... All IMHO.

Tony Bennett wrote:I've just seen the BBC's news report on Mark Rowley's press conference and statement.

They are putting 'Smithman' at the very heart of their news story, thus:

Madeleine McCann search to enter 'substantial phase' of activity


Thursday 3 May 2007: Timeline

• 20:30 Kate and Gerry McCann leave their apartment to have dinner at a Tapas bar
  
• 21:05 Gerry McCann checks on Madeleine and her siblings
  
• 22:00 A man is seen carrying a child wearing pyjamas heading towards the ocean
  
• 22:00 Kate McCann raises the alarm that Madeleine has gone missing
  

Yet, never mind all the many other doubts about the validity of the Smiths' claimed sighting, DCI Redwood on CrimeWatch on 14 October 2013 very deliberately led the viewing public to believe that members of this 'Irish family' were capable of producing two e-fits (both of different men, so it seems), despite the fact that all the three Smiths who gave statements to the PJ said they didn't see his face properly because it was dark, his face was hidden, we only saw him for a second or two, etc. etc.   

How is it that some, even on this forum, can swallow such balderdash - hook, line and sinker?

tiny wrote:"I want to be able to go back to Kate and Gerry at some stage in the future and tell them we've haven`t got to the bottom of this, or second best is to go back to them and say we've turned over every stone and we  still can't get to the PJ`s safe where Maddie`s hair is stored."


 

Mirage wrote:

endgame wrote:

Riddlemeree wrote:Hello - long time lurker here - my thought is what if : the police KNOW ... Because let's face it ... There are plenty of pointers...but they need a caste iron case because the core suspects are lawyered up to the eyebrows. How would they play it ? Especially since they know what suspects are capable of. What if they needed core suspects to not know they were in the spotlight - but every so often they wanted to give them a poke, a frisson of fear ... Might they play the most incredible media game - putting Holmes like clues into their press releases which will later jump out as "we knew all along " pointers while deluging the media with distractions . The suspects will be on a roller coaster of wondering whether they have finally been fingered or whether the police are still on side chasing up all sorts of red herrings . It may turn out. The police have played a blinder ... All IMHO.

Welcome Riddlemeree. Without wishing to dampen your enthusiasm and, of course everything is possible, I can only ask if you can name a single case where this technique has been used and used successfully. I can't. Most police investigations follow a path of collecting evidence, following leads created by that evidence, forming conclusions from that evidence and when those conclusions  are certain enough, charging someone with the crime. I can see no reason to vary this tried and trusted technique with reference to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann

The big day arrives. The court case of the century.........

Scenario 1.Day 1
The morning session is taken up with reading a list of witness names to 150 potential jurors in case they know any of them. As each name is read out one or two people raise their hand and peel off from the assembled crowd. Down to 50 potential jurors by coffee break. At 11am the judge continues, "Cherie Blair....Gordon Brown" Luckily, the court usher has opened up the double doors. (Exeunt Omnes.)

Scenario 2. Day 1
Defence lawyer: My Lord, it is my contention that neither party can receive a fair trial as a result of duress they have suffered over seven years of police lies and obfuscation when they thought they were being kept informed of the investigation progress. A tragedy in itself that two victims should be victimised twice over by dint of unorthodox and unsanctioned police practices that have struck a blow at the heart of our democracy.
Judge: I agree. You are free to go Mr and Mrs Mc. Have a nice day!

tiny wrote:How can sy get away with this if they do whitewash it,  they have the main players in the palm of there hands who have all LIED but are not suspects(can you believe that) but  they go to Portugal to look for
cleaner ,housebreakers,gypsys,and a multitude of other lowlife(so they say) to say I am angry is an understatement.

Cherry Blossom wrote:Met statement day after The Times artical mentions murder!!

endgame wrote:

Riddlemeree wrote:Hello - long time lurker here - my thought is what if : the police KNOW ... Because let's face it ... There are plenty of pointers...but they need a caste iron case because the core suspects are lawyered up to the eyebrows. How would they play it ? Especially since they know what suspects are capable of. What if they needed core suspects to not know they were in the spotlight - but every so often they wanted to give them a poke, a frisson of fear ... Might they play the most incredible media game - putting Holmes like clues into their press releases which will later jump out as "we knew all along " pointers while deluging the media with distractions . The suspects will be on a roller coaster of wondering whether they have finally been fingered or whether the police are still on side chasing up all sorts of red herrings . It may turn out. The police have played a blinder ... All IMHO.

Welcome Riddlemeree. Without wishing to dampen your enthusiasm and, of course everything is possible, I can only ask if you can name a single case where this technique has been used and used successfully. I can't. Most police investigations follow a path of collecting evidence, following leads created by that evidence, forming conclusions from that evidence and when those conclusions  are certain enough, charging someone with the crime. I can see no reason to vary this tried and trusted technique with reference to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann

Bishop Brennan wrote:Have yourself a brandy there Tony and watch out for your BP.   It's all theatre now as you know.  The characters taking part are barely even relevant.   

Cristobell wrote:

endgame wrote:

Riddlemeree wrote:Hello - long time lurker here - my thought is what if : the police KNOW ... Because let's face it ... There are plenty of pointers...but they need a caste iron case because the core suspects are lawyered up to the eyebrows. How would they play it ? Especially since they know what suspects are capable of. What if they needed core suspects to not know they were in the spotlight - but every so often they wanted to give them a poke, a frisson of fear ... Might they play the most incredible media game - putting Holmes like clues into their press releases which will later jump out as "we knew all along " pointers while deluging the media with distractions . The suspects will be on a roller coaster of wondering whether they have finally been fingered or whether the police are still on side chasing up all sorts of red herrings . It may turn out. The police have played a blinder ... All IMHO.

Welcome Riddlemeree. Without wishing to dampen your enthusiasm and, of course everything is possible, I can only ask if you can name a single case where this technique has been used and used successfully. I can't. Most police investigations follow a path of collecting evidence, following leads created by that evidence, forming conclusions from that evidence and when those conclusions  are certain enough, charging someone with the crime. I can see no reason to vary this tried and trusted technique with reference to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann

Hi Endgame, hope you don't mind my contributing an answer.   

I have no doubt whatsoever that police the world over use subterfuge to catch their criminals.  I am hard pushed to name specific cases, other than two that became headlines - other instances may have successfully run their course without ever being discovered.  The first that comes to mind is the case of Rachel Nickell, a young woman murdered on Wimbledon Common in 1992 and the honey trap that was set for their only suspect at that time, Colin Stagg.  

More recently it has come to light that police worked undercover in the Stephen Lawrence case, some becoming so immersed in their double lives that they could not separate their aliases from their real identities.  

The truth is, we have no idea how much 'undercover' work, or subterfuge the police do carry out in order to solve a crime, but I would imagine that bending the truth plays a big part in every manner of detective work.  

The idea that everything Scotland Yard does during a live investigation is honest and transparent is ludicrous, the role of the policeman has evolved somewhat since Dixon of Dock Green.  In this case they are not dealing with smash and grab robbers, and as the nature of the crime is sophisticated, so too must be the investigation.  I think one of the reasons this case is so fascinating is because it has been like a 7 year game of Cat and Mouse, and its a cunning little mouse that has surrounded itself with top notch lawyers.

utahagen wrote:....
Further -- and this is more to your point -- perhaps SY wants to keep the McCanns off-balance. A close friend of mine who is high up in the NYPD tells me often: when police publicly talk about how specific people are not suspects, that means nothing.

All indications from the McCanns' behavior over the past few months are that they are very nervous -- more nervous than they've ever been. It seems Tony Bennett is much more convinced it's a whitewash than the McCanns are!

The dismissal of Tannerman has been acclaimed as opening the “Window of Opportunity” for an abduction.   It seems to be suggested that the previous 3 minutes has somehow been expanded to an hour and a half.
But does it ?

21:06 Gerry checks the children
21:12 / 15   He then stands outside
21:13 / 16   He returns to the Tapas
21:25 After starters MO and RJO go to back to their apartments via the car park entrance.    They go first to 5D, where RJO’s daughter Evie is heard crying.  RJO enters flat, whilst MO checks inside 5B, then returns to 5D
21:30 RJO remains in 5D as daugher has vomited. MO goes to check on 5A via the patio gate entrance, enters, sees twins breathing . . .

It takes 1 minute to walk from the Tapas to the bottom of the stair at 5A.
1 minute to go from there to the front door of 5A / 5D / 5B  via the car park.
1 minute, at least for both to enter 5D to tend to the crying child
1 minute to go to 5B and check child
30 seconds to return to 5D
one minute to go to the bottom of the stairs 5A
30 second to enter 5A
30 seconds to stand in the apartment and “see the twins breathing”
15 seconds to exit
One minute to return to the Tapas

total a little under 8 minutes.
In fact they allow 10 minutes

But TWO men walked across the car park, and the shutters were obviously closed.
One man walked back across the car park - ditto
Same man entered apartment 5A - ditto -  no slamming doors or whooshing curtains

At that point everything was OK
And it is now . . .    21:35

21:40  JT (again) goes to 5D. so she crosses car park at 2142 - shutters and window obviously OK,  and no other activity, no cars moving around, no people lurking  - nothing.
21:45  RJO returns to table, so he again crossed the car park at 21:43.
21:55 Kate raises alarm (according to the TWO handwritten timelines - this was then (criminally ?) altered on typed one to 2200)
So Kate must have left the table at  21:50 to get to 5A, enter, check, hear slamming doors, and whooshing curtains, hurtle around, checking all rooms cupboards etc and get back to the Tapas by 21:55

So the new window of opportunity is

around 5 minutes - as an absolute maximum

In this time the intruder has to
• Enter the apartment
• Sedate all three children - in the dark
• Select Madeleine as the victim - in the dark
• Open the shutters and window - if he used the front door to enter
• Pick Madeleine out of her bed - in the dark
• Exit the apartment, either through the opened window and shutters, or
through the front door,

BUT In addition the sedation used must now be almost instantaneous, so that by the time Kate reaches the twins within 4 or 5 minutes they are already deeply unconscious, and will not rouse until 10 hours later, without after effects.  This substance must also be undetectable even by a trained anaesthetist (or two, in fact)

There is no substance which can do this.

Well done Redwood.  Bit by bit the net is closing.

And now we apparently have to add
• Walk round the block and down the road so as to be seen by the Smiths
AND THEN retrace his steps and dig a grave in the middle of a car park, in solid limestone, bury her, and cover his tracks before the alarm is raised and the search begins.
Excellent work.