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Kate's Mates

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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by canada12 on 24.05.14 13:26

@missbeetle wrote:A young Gerry perhaps?

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Could be, but a different photo would have had to be used, I think. His face is too narrow in this one.

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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by canada12 on 24.05.14 13:28

MILLIE wrote:Fair enough Canada12, I just reread your other post where you explain you had to increase the size of the other head. They still sure do look alike to me.

They look very alike to me as well.

Yes, very easy to increase or decrease the head sizes before popping them into a picture. In the original, the head of the child in the hammock is smaller than the head of the child in the foreground. There also appears to be what looks like a little fist on the chin belonging to the head's right side (our left) but it's all out of proportion to the size of the head. Very tiny.

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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by Guest on 24.05.14 13:39

What a hall of mirrors! Reminds me of the words of Garth Stein



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“Inside each of us resides the truth,” I began, “the absolute truth. But sometimes the truth is hidden in a hall of mirrors. Sometimes we believe we are viewing the real thing, when in fact we are viewing a facsimile, a distortion. As I listen to this trial, I am reminded of the climactic scene of a James Bond film, The Man with the Golden Gun. James Bond escaped his hall of mirrors by breaking the glass, shattering the illusions, until only the true villain stood before him. We, too, must shatter the mirrors. We must look into ourselves and root out the distortions until that thing which we know in our hearts is perfect and true, stands before us. Only then will justice be served.”

Garth Stein, The Art of Racing in the Rain


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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by canada12 on 24.05.14 13:54

MILLIE wrote:What a hall of mirrors! Reminds me of the words of Garth Stein



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Inside each of us resides the truth,” I began, “the absolute truth. But sometimes the truth is hidden in a hall of mirrors. Sometimes we believe we are viewing the real thing, when in fact we are viewing a facsimile, a distortion. As I listen to this trial, I am reminded of the climactic scene of a James Bond film, The Man with the Golden Gun. James Bond escaped his hall of mirrors by breaking the glass, shattering the illusions, until only the true villain stood before him. We, too, must shatter the mirrors. We must look into ourselves and root out the distortions until that thing which we know in our hearts is perfect and true, stands before us. Only then will justice be served.”

Garth Stein, The Art of Racing in the Rain


Perhaps the photo is a riddle, like the riddle posted on Cristobel's blog



Kate reclining in a hammock, with a very obviously enlarged and misshapen left hand holding the hammock together. The hand is also wearing a very prominent watch. In fact the hand looks more like a foot when you enlarge it.

Lurking in the hammock (or behind it, if you choose the no-legs option), a child who looks similar to the child who is walking away, but who cannot obviously be IN the hammock or he'd tip out. He also seems to be holding a book! I wonder if it's meant to be a diary, or a sticker book! (I'll post a picture of this enlarged section after this message.)

Small blonde female child is wandering away, looking disgruntled. Why? And why is the lady in the hammock (who may or may not be Kate) smiling through gritted teeth? (not a happy smile, a forced smile).

And what's that in the bottom right of the photo? It's a table and chair, very indistinct. The table seems to have some kind of tapestry thrown over it, that looks like it has a pattern of leaves and garden things. It's like the Dali painting of the bendy clocks - the tapestry is warped and bent over, as if time has been altered. And beside the table, on the ground, yet another book cover?

Hmm.

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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by canada12 on 24.05.14 14:00

Here's an enlargement of the foot-like hand and the book the child seems to be holding...


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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by Guest on 24.05.14 17:40

The thing in the bottom right corner is one of these.


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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by tigger on 24.05.14 18:13

Ah! A statue of a foreign God, venerated in the North of England when the sun comes out and the ritual of watering the lawn is performed!

Sorry, can't see snything wrong with this shot. Two children - neither of them Kate's.
child in the hammock, Kate grasping the edge because she is turning and weight distribution looks about right.
Very low quality shot, someone else's garden because it looks quite nice.

I would guess around 1999?

Clay, I honestly had already seen it wasn't a table. can't see any books either, somehow not a natural association, KH and books.

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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 24.05.14 18:31

May be I'm wrong and/or it doesn't matter, but are those two Zumapress images definitely photos or stills from a video?

Just that the interlacing/herringbone pattern on these two images say video to me?

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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by Guest on 24.05.14 18:32

@tigger wrote:Ah! A statue of a foreign God, venerated in the North of England when the sun comes out and  the ritual of watering the lawn is performed!

Sorry, can't see snything wrong with this shot. Two children - neither of them Kate's.
child in the hammock, Kate grasping the edge because she is turning and weight distribution looks about right.
Very low quality shot, someone else's garden because it looks quite nice.

I would guess  around 1999?

Clay, I honestly had already seen it wasn't a table. can't see any books either, somehow not a natural association, KH and books.

Going by Amazon reviews (one gets bored, trying to fill the gap between Monaco GP qualifying and the Champions League final, you understand) it was on sale around 2007-2010.

It is a bit of an odd photo, but then what's new?

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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by lj on 25.05.14 2:09

@tigger wrote:@ lj:  I know you asked for it, perhaps not in this topic, but here are the comments from the creche workers in Amsterdam.

There's also a topic about two new photographs of Gerry doing some parenting in the creche. If you type Amsterdam in the search box, you'll find it.

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t9280-controversy-about-amsterdam-stay?highlight=amsterdam

Part of the translation from above link: from a creche worker.

I believe that she had no work here. But I'm not absolutely sure. It's so many years ago.
As far as Maddy is concerned I remember her as a quiet girl who was rather sad from time to time, but that is not so strange at that age. On the whole she was always easily soothed if you came to sit by her or if you got some toys or a little book and sat next to her. But I do know of plenty of kids who are perfectly happy in the creche and terrorise  home life.
Kate came - for me - always over as very stressed and I suspected even then that she had Post Natal depression.
She could come in with an icy look and would barely react to the group, other parents or us.
As is she wasn't really there (Hence the suspected depression)
[/size]Sometimes her interaction with Maddy was very noticable. She certainly made the expression 'dumping your kid in the creche' come to life. Just Hello and Goodbye.

Thanks for that, tigger. I had not seen those. I am not really surprised, although I think it's more something in Kate's character than a post natal depression.
Also very interesting the line about kids being good in the creche and little terrorists at home.

All just my opinion.

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Human Resources Director from A Public English Organism...

Post by missbeetle on 25.05.14 6:10

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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by lj on 25.05.14 6:30

Why the Sorry, but only users granted special access can read topics in this forum. ?

Fo r the crecheworkers interviews

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http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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Cake Lady...?

Post by missbeetle on 25.05.14 7:15

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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by Angelique on 25.05.14 7:30

@lj wrote:Why the Sorry, but only users granted special access can read topics in this forum. ?

Fo r the crecheworkers interviews

lj

I got this as well - it may be you have to ask for permisssion from Admin.

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Some thoughts on this picture

Post by missbeetle on 25.05.14 7:37



Somebody is behind Kate, left hand holding the knife, right hand gripping Madeleine's arm?

Kate looks smart, dressed up in her Pants of Ganga.

Masonic tea towel?

Kate is tanned - could this have been taken April/May 2007 in PDL? Or a bit later on in the year?

I really don't like this picture.

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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by tigger on 25.05.14 8:13

@missbeetle wrote:

Somebody is behind Kate, left hand holding the knife, right hand gripping Madeleine's arm?

Kate looks smart, dressed up in her Pants of Ganga.

Masonic tea towel?

Kate is tanned - could this have been taken April/May 2007 in PDL? Or a bit later on in the year?

I really don't like this picture.

I think Kate is pasted in for sure. Her right arm isn't far enough back for her hand to apparently grip Maddie's left arm
Enlarge Maddie's left arm. Line and colour change from elbow to knickled hand, Left hand normal child's hand, so...
And no way is that child 90 cm tall.

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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by Hicks on 25.05.14 10:44

@tigger wrote:
@missbeetle wrote:

Somebody is behind Kate, left hand holding the knife, right hand gripping Madeleine's arm?

Kate looks smart, dressed up in her Pants of Ganga.

Masonic tea towel?

Kate is tanned - could this have been taken April/May 2007 in PDL? Or a bit later on in the year?

I really don't like this picture.

I think Kate is pasted in for sure. Her right arm isn't far enough back for her hand to apparently grip Maddie's left arm
Enlarge Maddie's left arm. Line and colour change from elbow to knickled hand, Left hand normal child's hand, so...
And no way is that child 90 cm tall.
Why is it that practically every photo released by the McCann's looks like it has been altered in some way?

I wonder if Madeleine lived elsewhere for long periods of her short life. Perhaps with the female holding her.

Just magnified the picture to 400, I think that the female holding Madeleine has been pasted in. The kitchen is definitely the McCann's. Kate was there alone originally I would guess. Look at Madeleine's arm, the one that Kate is holding, it looks like it has been cut in half midway down.

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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by Snifferdog on 25.05.14 10:55

Missbeetle this photo gives me the creeps.  The knife that Kate is holding looks like a huge sacrificial knife dagger.  Or else it is badly photoshopped and the knife is casting an impossible shadow on the wall to the left of the toaster.

Tiggerand Hicks, I agree with you re. the photoshopping.  Why do the Mccanns send out photoshopped images of their daughter, when they would surely have lots of unphotoshopped suitable ones of Madeleine in their possession - without makeup, strange poses and bruised looking neck etc.  This is after all the digital age where people take many many photos more than before, knowing that they have not laid out for expensive film, and only need to print what they choose to.

I purport the theory that these, and the other odd images of Madeleine released by the parents, mean something.  
For example, in this and other images of Madeleine, there are elements which serve as an open warning, to whom they are aimed.  All IMO.

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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by Doug D on 25.05.14 11:09

Pretty sure it’s Amelie & Sean’s birthday, which would make it February. If you blow up the cake you can make out Amelie’s name at the top & ‘ean’ at the bottom.
 
I know it looks like M. has a ‘bionic arm’ stuck on at the elbow, her sock line is not right and Kate’s arms/hands look odd, but I often think we take too much notice of photoshopping and try to bring conspiracy theories into every picture we see.
 
Every picture we see in the papers will have been through a photo-editors hands for ‘correction’ prior to being printed and this one is probably no different.
 
For example, it could well be that Kate was standing ‘too far’ to the right for the available slot on the page and the only way to get the three of them into the space, as well as the cake, was to squeeze her and possibly M. over a bit, requiring a number of ‘corrections’.
 
I can fully understand the debates on the ‘last’ and ‘tennis’ photos, as they were trying to prove something, which may or may not have occurred, but if someone can come up with a logical reason for trying to ‘fraudulently’ create or manipulate this photo, I would like to hear it.
 
Other than the hopeless black & white images & a couple of reasonable ones such as the playground scene, which can be found in the PJ files, I think all the rest have come via papers, which could well explain all the apparent discrepancies.

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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by Hicks on 25.05.14 11:17

@Snifferdog wrote:Missbeetle this photo gives me the creeps.  The knife that Kate is holding looks like a huge sacrificial knife dagger.  Or else it is badly photoshopped and the knife is casting an impossible shadow on the wall to the left of the toaster.

Tiggerand Hicks, I agree with you re. the photoshopping.  Why do the Mccanns send out photoshopped images of their daughter, when they would surely have lots of unphotoshopped suitable ones of Madeleine in their possession - without makeup, strange poses and bruised looking neck etc.  This is after all the digital age where people take many many photos more than before, knowing that they have not laid out for expensive film, and only need to print what they choose to.

I purport the theory that these, and the other odd images of Madeleine released by the parents, mean something.  
For example, in this and other images of Madeleine, there are elements which serve as an open warning, to whom they are aimed.  All IMO.
I know a lot on here think that the riddler is just a wind up but I think there could be a lot more to the post s/he wrote.
This photo for me adds more weight.

The Birthday cake has two candles so this photo could have been taken on the twins birthday, either their first (one candle for each twin to blow) or second, that would have been February 2006/ 2007. I suspect that Madeleine wasn't living there. The riddler said that the McCann's moved to Rothley in 2006 with their TWO children.

To create the illusion of one big happy family (and no perhaps the true picture that Madeleine was farmed out when the twin came along) Madeleine has been added when in all probability she was not there.

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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by Hicks on 25.05.14 11:42

Is this the same woman, Aunt Norah?

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/z/z%20(52).jpg

I reckon the photo put out by the McCanns was taken in 2006 as Aunt Norah seems to look quite a bit different in 2007.

If the photo was taken in Feb 2006-and I think it was- Madeleine would have been two, three in the May, yet Madeleine seems much older than that in the photo.

Another snippet, I was reading-can't think where-GM was talking about their time in the Netherlands. A sentence of his jumped out, that being ...'Madeleine spent a year with us in Amsterdam'. What a strange thing to say.

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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by Guest on 25.05.14 11:52

Thanks for putting those two pics up together:) (Tennis & Memorial Day).

Now about flipped pics. 

Tennis pic imo.

Birthday? Aunt Norah pic as well.

Once flipped, the latter would leave Kate right-handed & Aunt Norah easier recognisable.
Wearing her watch consistently on the same pulse.

All imo 

kindest regards to all here
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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by Snifferdog on 25.05.14 11:53

Hicks I have also not dismissed the riddler as it may just be genuine.  To my mind there is no harm in looking into and debating what s/he has posted, as long as one bears in mind that we do not have any proof as to its veracity. I don't think that anything should be dismissed out of hand with this case, though there are instances where we can see a disinfo wind up merchant such as the fraud Stephen Birch. 
As far as the riddler goes perhaps s/he is afraid to come out with the facts, possibly fearing for own safety, as to my mind the disappearance of MM has far reaching tentacles.  Some of us are aware as to what can happen to those who know too much and speak about it.  After all, what is the sacrifice of one or two individuals to people, who are able to sanction the sending of entire armies to war, under false pretexts, for their own corrupt financial gain.

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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by canada12 on 25.05.14 12:10

parapono wrote:Thanks for putting those two pics up together:) (Tennis & Memorial Day).

Now about flipped pics. 

Tennis pic imo.

Birthday? Aunt Norah pic as well.

Once flipped, the latter would leave Kate right-handed & Aunt Norah easier recognisable.
Wearing her watch consistently on the same pulse.

All imo 

kindest regards to all here
parapono


Interesting point. Is Kate left or right handed?

If Kate is right handed, why is she holding the knife in her left hand?

FWIW, I think the peculiar shadows in the birthday cake photo are caused by a flash on the camera. If you have a rather dark room and you use a flash, you often get very pronounced shadows.

My problems with this picture include Madeleine's weird left arm, the oddness of Kate's grip on Madeleine's arm, the reflection of the birthday cake (the cake is smaller than the plate therefore how can you have a complete reflection in the countertop. incuding the striped "trim" which is right on the lip of the plate - not sure anyone's explained that adequately to me yet), and the reflection of the plates. There are 5 plates. The reflection shows 6. Also the dishtowel reflection - there's a fold on the top of the towel which cannot possibly be reflected in the countertop as it wouldn't even be visible from below. IMO the "reflections" are just reverse images of the objects that have been added.

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Re: Kate's Mates

Post by 1soapy on 25.05.14 13:33

I have often thought that pictures in general are looked into/analysed too much, and many, without a reason to do so – i.e. even if it were edited, why bother/what’s the point or benefit?

I do now however think that many are worth looking at. It could be that we don’t need to have a reason to justify each picture for scrutiny; rather, the number of dodgy pictures (and the relatively few family pics and of Madeleine) create the justification as to a motive for there being so many oddities.

Good reasons given have been that either/or: the family were not all living together all the time or they were not too happy or Madeleine might not have been... around.

I have posted before that in most of our own photo collections, if we put them to the same level of scrutiny and suspicion, we would be surprised at how much looks dodgy.

However, there does seem to be significantly more strangeness and in more photos in this case and I think that this justifies the added interest without a conspiracy theory label.

It was interesting that DougD (do you have some inside knowledge?) mentions that many pics shown via the media go through editing. I think this is very important (to find out from the particular media outlets that have displayed each picture, if/where they have photoshopped/edited them, if at all) because if these photos are being drawn to the MET/PJs attention (but are actually innocent or unaltered), then it looks bad for people trying to search for the truth and later information presented to the authorities might be taken less seriously in future.

Is there a list/collection of pictures deemed/suspected as possible candidates for editing? Perhaps such, as a presentation on its own, could be sent to the MET/PJ with annotations?

A small list that springs to mind for me are:

The birthday kitchen picture (superimposed person)

Kate as a child (with superimposed face)

Tennis balls pic (arm/hand, reversed)

Last pic at pool (any superimposing or shadow issues or reflection in glasses)

The castle pic (legs facing sideways)

The garden hammock pic (child in or out of hammock)

I’m sure there are lots more and I’m not convinced that all of these are edited, but I think it would be important to check that the pics were/weren’t altered (i.e. for the RIGHT reasons) by any media outlet(s) or compare with originals, before making too much more of the pictures.

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