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Rolf Harris Trial starts Today

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Re: Rolf Harris Trial starts Today

Post by ChippyM on 04.07.14 9:50

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10936837/Rolf-Harris-daughter-said-inheriting-his-11-million-would-be-like-winning-the-lottery.html

It certainly sounds like another case of someone's public image being very different to their private persona.

I wonder if his daughter's continuous support in court was due to fears of being disinherited if she didn't.

The letter the daughter wrote is cringeworthy, all kinds of thinly disguised requests to give her the money she seems to think she 'deserves', with lots of insincere sounding stuff about how it would be best for her parents if they knew what they were doing with their fortune.

 I think this is part of what swayed the jury because she also admitted in court that her and her mother arrived seperartely to Rolf and them met up to be driven to court to put on a show of solidarity. If your own family believes the allegations then that says something doesn't it?

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Re: Rolf Harris Trial starts Today

Post by aquila on 04.07.14 9:55

Well Rolf is back in court today. What's he packed for his 'holiday'.

Wobble board
Paintbrushes
Didgeridoo
CD's (best of Rolf)

Paint and sing all you like Rolf, I doubt you'll remember this....7 year old girl Rolf.....7 year old girl.

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Re: Rolf Harris Trial starts Today

Post by PeterMac on 04.07.14 10:22

Announced that they are not going ahead with the Four counts of downloading indecent images of Children.
They had been holding them back awaiting the result of this trial.

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Re: Rolf Harris Trial starts Today

Post by aiyoyo on 04.07.14 10:22

He will be away from home for a very long time so he might take quite a few more items.  His hideous outfits for example if he can get way with it. I suspect his jail sentence will surpass that of MC.

.

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Re: Rolf Harris Trial starts Today

Post by ChippyM on 04.07.14 11:02

The indecent images were teens and children under 13.

"
[*]Harris compiled images of 'extremely young' semi-naked children under 13
[*]Police found 33 indecent images downloaded from depraved websites

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2680411/Rolf-Harris-leaves-home-boat-family-including-daughter-Bindi-sentenced-today.html#ixzz36Ub9EA7h "

I won't repeat the names of the websites but they are in the article. It seems Rolf definitely had a particular interest that relates directly to the assaults.


(ETA).  I see why they kept back the indecent images charges, if they had detailed all the stuff he looked at the jury would have been convinced by that alone.

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Re: Rolf Harris Trial starts Today

Post by missbeetle on 04.07.14 11:15

"

Interesting necklace of Bindi's.

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Re: Rolf Harris Trial starts Today

Post by ChippyM on 04.07.14 11:25

missbeetl wrote:

Interesting necklace of Bindi's.

Explain please , I see wings and a key..... smilie

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Re: Rolf Harris Trial starts Today

Post by aquila on 04.07.14 11:27

Harris' lawyer is stating that he is the principal carer for his wife (who is too ill to attend court today).

Really? a man with a fortune is the principal carer for his wife? Doesn't she have a devoted daughter?

Harris' lawyer is stating he is elderly and infirm?

Really? a man with a fortune who has enjoyed access to the best of private medical care? Won't he have better access to free medical care in a prison than those who wait in NHS queues?

It's the usual mitigating nonsense.

A seven year old girl Rolf, a seven year old girl. An eleven year old girl Rolf, an eleven year old girl. I doubt very much they have had the privileged existence you have enjoyed. Perhaps they are principal carers for their own families. Perhaps they are prematurely aged and infirm by what you did to them.

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Re: Rolf Harris Trial starts Today

Post by missbeetle on 04.07.14 11:33

@ChippyM wrote:
missbeetl wrote:

Interesting necklace of Bindi's.

Explain please , I see wings and a key..... smilie

Your guess is as good as mine.

I see the ivory wings, the tarnished key and a red plastic flower in her hair.

I see a damaged woman whose father has so badly let her down.

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Re: Rolf Harris Trial starts Today

Post by ChippyM on 04.07.14 11:34

@aquila wrote:......

It's the usual mitigating nonsense.

A seven year old girl Rolf, a seven year old girl. An eleven year old girl Rolf, an eleven year old girl. I doubt very much they have had the privileged existence you have enjoyed. Perhaps they are principal carers for their own families. Perhaps they are prematurely aged and infirm by what you did to them.

I have a feeling the judge will not be lenient as this is so in the public eye.

If he got 3 or 4 years he may die in jail, if he gets 9 or 10 its the same outcome.

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Re: Rolf Harris Trial starts Today

Post by ChippyM on 04.07.14 11:38

@missbeetle wrote:
@ChippyM wrote:
missbeetl wrote:

Interesting necklace of Bindi's.

Explain please , I see wings and a key..... smilie

Your guess is as good as mine.

I see the ivory wings, the tarnished key and a red plastic flower in her hair.

I see a damaged woman whose father has so badly let her down.

Oh ok, I thought you meant it symbolised something in particular.
I think it's a bit arty, which would be explained by them being a family of artists but I suppose you could read something into the angel wings, wings with which to escape, fly away etc. and a key to someones heart. Hmmm.

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Re: Rolf Harris Trial starts Today

Post by ultimaThule on 04.07.14 13:05

Extract from a current online BBC news report:
In court
Jane Peel, BBC News correspondent

"The queue outside court two began to form at 07:45 BST - more than two hours before the hearing was due to begin. Members of the public had brought their books to fill the time.

When the affable court usher, Billy, unlocked the door, it was not quite a stampede, but it was not pretty.

Two journalists immediately sat in seats reserved for the Harris support team. They refused to budge until told that the media could occupy the 12 jury seats as none of the jurors had taken up the opportunity to return for sentencing.

Another 30 people were sent off to an overspill court where they witnessed proceedings on a video feed.

Rolf Harris had started his final journey to Southwark in a boat from his house on the Thame
s, in Bray, Berkshire, but he arrived as usual in a car.

His daughter Bindi was with him but there was no sign of his frail wife, Alwen.

Perhaps in contrast to his mood, he wore a jazzy, multi-coloured tie and a light grey suit."


'Final journey' along the Thames to Southwark?  The symbolism is of Harris being taken to the the Traitor's Gate which is a little further along the Thames from Southwark.  Will it be 'off with his head' when the judge hands down his sentence?

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Re: Rolf Harris Trial starts Today

Post by FrankS on 04.07.14 13:19

Rolf - 5  years 9 months

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Re: Rolf Harris Trial starts Today

Post by plebgate on 04.07.14 13:23

@aquila wrote:Harris' lawyer is stating that he is the principal carer for his wife (who is too ill to attend court today).

Really? a man with a fortune is the principal carer for his wife? Doesn't she have a devoted daughter?

Harris' lawyer is stating he is elderly and infirm?

Really? a man with a fortune who has enjoyed access to the best of private medical care? Won't he have better access to free medical care in a prison than those who wait in NHS queues?

It's the usual mitigating nonsense.

A seven year old girl Rolf, a seven year old girl. An eleven year old girl Rolf, an eleven year old girl. I doubt very much they have had the privileged existence you have enjoyed. Perhaps they are principal carers for their own families. Perhaps they are prematurely aged and infirm by what you did to them.
Haven't given one of these for a while  --    clapping

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Re: Rolf Harris Trial starts Today

Post by ChippyM on 04.07.14 13:29

@FrankS wrote:Rolf - 5  years 9 months

That's about what I expected really.


Oh wait...... he will serve half that time and be released on license, bit of an insult to the victims!

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Re: Rolf Harris Trial starts Today

Post by plebgate on 04.07.14 13:30

Other accusers have now come forward, so if charged and found guilty he might well end his days inside.

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Re: Rolf Harris Trial starts Today

Post by ChippyM on 04.07.14 13:32

"
Harris would have faced a maximum sentence of 14 years for the assault on the girl aged seven or eight in 1969, had the offence been committed today.
On the five counts relating to his daughter's friend, Harris would have faced a maximum term of eight years if committed today.

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Re: Rolf Harris Trial starts Today

Post by tasprin on 04.07.14 14:06

@plebgate wrote:
@aquila wrote:Harris' lawyer is stating that he is the principal carer for his wife (who is too ill to attend court today).

Really? a man with a fortune is the principal carer for his wife? Doesn't she have a devoted daughter?

Harris' lawyer is stating he is elderly and infirm?

Really? a man with a fortune who has enjoyed access to the best of private medical care? Won't he have better access to free medical care in a prison than those who wait in NHS queues?

It's the usual mitigating nonsense.

A seven year old girl Rolf, a seven year old girl. An eleven year old girl Rolf, an eleven year old girl. I doubt very much they have had the privileged existence you have enjoyed. Perhaps they are principal carers for their own families. Perhaps they are prematurely aged and infirm by what you did to them.
Haven't given one of these for a while  --    clapping
Good post Aquila. Another nonsensical mitigation was "no previous convictions". Decades of committing crimes without incurring a single conviction goes in your favour apparently.

And David Cameron made his usual "No-one is above the law" speech [except paedophile politicians of course] following Andy Coulson's sentencing today.

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Re: Rolf Harris Trial starts Today

Post by PeterMac on 04.07.14 14:28

@tasprin wrote:
Good post Aquila. Another nonsensical mitigation was "no previous convictions". Decades of committing crimes without incurring a single conviction goes in your favour apparently.
.
Quite. It merely proves you were so devious that you were not detected.
Surely that is exacerbation, not mitigation.

A bit like the CRS checks. They can never find the ones who were too clever or too threatening to their victims . . .

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Re: Rolf Harris Trial starts Today

Post by Guest on 04.07.14 14:45

@ChippyM wrote:
(ETA).  I see why they kept back the indecent images charges, if they had detailed all the stuff he looked at the jury would have been convinced by that alone.


Er... unless I read it wrong, they were unable to proceed with these charges because they weren't able to satisfactorily prove that the photos were actually of minors.

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Re: Rolf Harris Trial starts Today

Post by ultimaThule on 04.07.14 14:49

That's how I read it too, Clay, and as these charges were not proceeded with I see no cause to tar Harris with a bigger brush than has aleady been applied to him.

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Re: Rolf Harris Trial starts Today

Post by aquila on 04.07.14 14:49

@PeterMac wrote:
@tasprin wrote:
Good post Aquila. Another nonsensical mitigation was "no previous convictions". Decades of committing crimes without incurring a single conviction goes in your favour apparently.
.
Quite. It merely proves you were so devious that you were not detected.
Surely that is exacerbation, not mitigation.

A bit like the CRS checks.  They can never find the ones who were too clever or too threatening to their victims . . .
He's only sorry he got caught. He's not sorry for his crimes - and just in case he got off the CPS were ready to charge him with other crimes. There is talk now of other victims coming forward.

No doubt his loving family will be securing their finances now (if they haven't already) before the forthcoming compensation claims.

There can be no excuses for Rolf. He can't escape jail because he's elderly or infirm. As for his role as principal carer of his wife well she'd have to be quite an extraordinary person to let him back into her home to look after her after learning he sexually assaulted children.

Good call by the judge.

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Re: Rolf Harris Trial starts Today

Post by PeterMac on 04.07.14 14:55

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
@ChippyM wrote:
(ETA).  I see why they kept back the indecent images charges, if they had detailed all the stuff he looked at the jury would have been convinced by that alone.
Er... unless I read it wrong, they were unable to proceed with these charges because they weren't able to satisfactorily prove that the photos were actually of minors.

I think you may have read it wrong.
Those particular charges were so clear and complete that they would have severely prejudiced the jury in its deliberation of the disputed charges of indecent assault
The prosecution had the details of the number of times each site had been accessed, the number of times the history had been wiped, of the details RH has kept of how to delete the records and so on.
IF there has been a verdict of NG in the substantive charges, they would then have moved in with the possession of photos charges, to which he might have had almost no defence

I think.

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Re: Rolf Harris Trial starts Today

Post by Guest on 04.07.14 14:56

@ultimaThule wrote:That's how I read it too, Clay, and as these charges were not proceeded with I see no cause to tar Harris with a bigger brush than has aleady been applied to him.

It does open up a whole other can of worms though, although not for him.


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Re: Rolf Harris Trial starts Today

Post by Guest on 04.07.14 14:58

@PeterMac wrote:
Clay Regazzoni wrote:
@ChippyM wrote:
(ETA).  I see why they kept back the indecent images charges, if they had detailed all the stuff he looked at the jury would have been convinced by that alone.
Er... unless I read it wrong, they were unable to proceed with these charges because they weren't able to satisfactorily prove that the photos were actually of minors.

I think you may have read it wrong.
Those particular charges were so clear and complete that they would have severely prejudiced the jury in its deliberation of the disputed charges of indecent assault
The prosecution had the details of the number of times each site had been accessed, the number of times the history had been wiped, of the details RH has kept of how to delete the records and so on.
IF there has been a verdict of NG in the substantive charges, they would then have moved in with the possession of photos charges, to which he might have had almost no defence

I think.

I read it that the models in question allegedly had ID, albeit of dubious provenance. I'm not going to expend too much energy discussing it though, because it looks like I am defending him and I most certainly am not.

I think it ties into somebody else's "wider agenda" though.

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