Re: Photographs revisited - questions

by Doug D 22.05.16 10:32

Long sleeved or short sleeved, they are all made basically the same, with obviously less material for the kids versions which might change the lines slightly.

The ‘shoulder seam’ follows the line of the ‘sleeve seam’, which in the photo hits MM right at the top of her visible shoulder, which is why it doesn’t show.

In the other photo you can see the shoulder seam:

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That's not to say it couldn't have been photoshopped on. I've no idea and her right arm seems remarkably out of focus in this copy of the photo

by Doug D 22.05.16 10:39

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Shirt being worn.

by BarryTheHatchet 22.05.16 10:47

Doug D wrote:
That's not to say it couldn't have been photoshopped on. I've no idea and her right arm seems remarkably out of focus in this copy of the photo

That could just be camera shake, but the placement of the head on top of the neck still bothers me (I would have placed it slightly further back) and there's evidence of a clone tool just above the fingers of the left hand, at the hairline.

by Guest 22.05.16 10:51

canada12 wrote:
Doug D wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I think you'll find it's just this shirt canada12.

Nope. Madeleine's shirt is missing the seam that runs down from the neckline along the arm. Plus her shirt is short-sleeved - it's not the same shirt at all.

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It's the same shirt.

Kids kits are sometimes cut differently.

I worked in the industry for 3 years.

by **sharonl** 22.05.16 10:54

Doug D wrote:Long sleeved or short sleeved, they are all made basically the same, with obviously less material for the kids versions which might change the lines slightly.

The ‘shoulder seam’ follows the line of the ‘sleeve seam’, which in the photo hits MM right at the top of her visible shoulder, which is why it doesn’t show.

In the other photo you can see the shoulder seam:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

That's not to say it couldn't have been photoshopped on. I've no idea and her right arm seems remarkably out of focus in this copy of the photo

Funny you should mention the right arm, to me it looks slightly out of position, but I may be wrong.

by Guest 22.05.16 10:58

Here's one on ebay.

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Collar is " a different blue" as well.

Another

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by BarryTheHatchet 22.05.16 11:02

It would also depend on whether it was an authentic replica kit, or a cheap knockoff from some Leicester market stall.

by Amy Dean 22.05.16 11:08

I can't imagine Lady Kate slumming it at a market stall!

by Guest 22.05.16 11:12

The shirt is too big for her.
The seam starts at the point where the collar starts.
You can see the seam in the other picture.
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by pennylane 22.05.16 11:13

Look at Wendy Murphy's head in the above banners. You could say it looks as if it's been photo shopped onto the neck, and her neck looks rather thin for the head! Look at John Gaunt's arm and hand, does it not look a bit strange and out of proportion, and what of his other arm, that looks really far back? My point is you can find lots of oddities in photos if you look close enough.

by Guest 22.05.16 11:17

BarryTheHatchet wrote:It would also depend on whether it was an authentic replica kit, or a cheap knockoff from some Leicester market stall.

Looks like the real deal to me.

I used to make them. Same company.

Umbro used to sell "replica" kits - not sure it they still call it that.

The actual kits worn by the players were slightly different in terms of quality, and sometimes cut and material.

Certainly in terms of manufacturing care.

by BarryTheHatchet 22.05.16 11:18

Amy Dean wrote:I can't imagine Lady Kate slumming it at a market stall!

Well at least one of her tops she was wearing in Portugal came from Asda! I know this because I had exactly the same one. Only bigger, because I have bigger boobs. So there! big grin

by bobbin 22.05.16 12:41

BlueBag wrote:
canada12 wrote:
Doug D wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I think you'll find it's just this shirt canada12.

Nope. Madeleine's shirt is missing the seam that runs down from the neckline along the arm. Plus her shirt is short-sleeved - it's not the same shirt at all.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
It's the same shirt.

Kids kits are sometimes cut differently.

I worked in the industry for 3 years.

BlueBag,
I'm shocked. If you worked in the industry all that time how on earth didn't you notice the different type of sleeves.
As someone who has made clothing since the age of 11, including technically the more difficult stuff including cutting on the bias, triangular inserts etc. the sleeves that Doug D's example is showing are 'raglan' style and the shirt Maddie is wearing is conventional.

I would have checked my facts out before claiming to have been in the industry for all that time, or at least kept quiet, for fear of showing such a basic ignorance.

by Doug D 22.05.16 13:04

Bobbin:

Not a clothing expert, but if you look at the photo @10.39 where the shirt is actually being worn, I don’t think this is ‘raglan’.

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Raglan sleeve from Wiki.

Just a big shirt on a little girl imo.

by bobbin 22.05.16 13:38

Not being picky DougD because as you know, I very much respect your posts, keeping us up to date on the political etc. side, including now, the Chilcott report which I hope will deliver what it is claimed to be, by the Times.

However, a raglan sleeve, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is one where the sleeve material is tailored and continued over the shoulder to become integrated in/ part of the neck line.

Normally, a basic T shirt will be front and back panels joined together in a seam along the shoulder and the sleeve entered into the armhole at the arm end of the shoulder seam.

A 'raglan' will be a diagonal, whether it continues from (front and back of) neck to right under the arm, to the shirt side seam, or is integrated as part of a more complicated side panel, and/or interesting design feature, with the sleeve extending at any rate into the neck line.

I do wonder if the two photos are of different T shirts nevertheless.

Neither seem to fit her well, and the one does seem to be bigger than the other.

As for the neck triangular piece, it does look like the folded back part (mini collar) of the male adult raglan type insert which constitutes the upper part of the sleeve. What it is doing on the 'conventional' sleeve cut is anybody's guess. The whole thing to my mind is 'publicity'.

I'm more concerned that Maddie has the coloboma in the one photo, which apparently she didn't really have at all, and as Kate says, they (the parents) never really made much of it anyway.
"LOOK" says Kate, No Coloboma !! spin

by Guest 22.05.16 14:28

bobbin wrote:
BlueBag wrote:
canada12 wrote:
Doug D wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I think you'll find it's just this shirt canada12.

Nope. Madeleine's shirt is missing the seam that runs down from the neckline along the arm. Plus her shirt is short-sleeved - it's not the same shirt at all.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
It's the same shirt.

Kids kits are sometimes cut differently.

I worked in the industry for 3 years.
BlueBag,
I'm shocked. If you worked in the industry all that time how on earth didn't you notice the different type of sleeves.
As someone who has made clothing since the age of 11, including technically the more difficult stuff including cutting on the bias, triangular inserts etc. the sleeves that Doug D's example is showing are 'raglan' style and the shirt Maddie is wearing is conventional.

I would have checked my facts out before claiming to have been in the industry for all that time, or at least kept quiet, for fear of showing such a basic ignorance.

It is a fact that kids kits were sometimes cut differently - they were sometimes simplified.

You can stick your "shocked".

Regardless, the shirt Madeleine is wearing has the seam starting where the collar starts - you can see the seam in one of the photos.

It is too big for her.

I don't see what the problem is, the seam is in the right place in relation to the collar and Madeleine isn't filling the thing.

The seam is in the right place in relation to the collar.

Once again people are making mountains out of molehills over photos.

by Guest 22.05.16 14:36

bobbin wrote:

BlueBag,
I'm shocked. If you worked in the industry all that time how on earth didn't you notice the different type of sleeves.
As someone who has made clothing since the age of 11, including technically the more difficult stuff including cutting on the bias, triangular inserts etc. the sleeves that Doug D's example is showing are 'raglan' style and the shirt Maddie is wearing is conventional.

I would have checked my facts out before claiming to have been in the industry for all that time, or at least kept quiet, for fear of showing such a basic ignorance.

Latest England kit from Nike.
Kids and Adults:
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Got it?

by Verdi 23.05.16 0:02

sharonl wrote:Bumping this this thread because I am curious about these two photographs. I don't think that they have been tampered with but given the McCanns association with Everton I wondered whether these photos were placed in the media purely as an advert for Everton. If that was the case, are they genuine or has the shirt been photo-shopped onto her?

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More likely something to do with this..

Official Find Madeleine website update - 3rd May 2009 (Anniversary campaign)

[color:b33e=000000]Everton and Sunderland Football Clubs kindly helped us -once again - to remind everyone about Madeleine and the fact that she is still missing. The football community as a whole has helped us hugely over the last two years and we are so grateful for this show of support and solidarity across all clubs and colours. It is incredibly uplifting to have so many supporters with all the passion and pride they display, standing by Madeleine and willing her home. Thank you!

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by Guest 23.05.16 7:59

bobbin wrote:

BlueBag,
I'm shocked. If you worked in the industry all that time how on earth didn't you notice the different type of sleeves.
As someone who has made clothing since the age of 11, including technically the more difficult stuff including cutting on the bias, triangular inserts etc. the sleeves that Doug D's example is showing are 'raglan' style and the shirt Maddie is wearing is conventional.

I would have checked my facts out before claiming to have been in the industry for all that time, or at least kept quiet, for fear of showing such a basic ignorance.

Seeing as bobbin hasn't bothered to respond to my post (which shows I absolutely do know what I'm talking about), I'll show who is ignorant and who isn't.

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Raglan sleeve my bottom.

There is one seam and it joins the front and back panels.

It isn't in the normal place, it is slightly over the shoulder at the front.

The join starts where the collar starts.

Madeleine's collar is sitting on top of her shoulder and that is where the join is.

I'm shocked at the lack of digging some posters are prepared to do.

by canada12 23.05.16 9:02

BlueBag wrote:
bobbin wrote:

BlueBag,
I'm shocked. If you worked in the industry all that time how on earth didn't you notice the different type of sleeves.
As someone who has made clothing since the age of 11, including technically the more difficult stuff including cutting on the bias, triangular inserts etc. the sleeves that Doug D's example is showing are 'raglan' style and the shirt Maddie is wearing is conventional.

I would have checked my facts out before claiming to have been in the industry for all that time, or at least kept quiet, for fear of showing such a basic ignorance.
Seeing as bobbin hasn't bothered to respond to my post (which shows I absolutely do know what I'm talking about), I'll show who is ignorant and who isn't.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Raglan sleeve my bottom.

There is one seam and it joins the front and back panels.

It isn't in the normal place, it is slightly over the shoulder at the front.

The join starts where the collar starts.

Madeleine's collar is sitting on top of her shoulder and that is where the join is.

Except it isn't. There's clearly no seam running from the collar edge down the sleeve. The collar edge is sitting by itself. Madeleine's sleeve is joined to the rest of her t-shirt by a seam that runs all the way around the sleeve. It's visible on both arms.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Also quite visible in this photo - seam going all the way around the sleeve:

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by Guest 23.05.16 9:19

BlueBag wrote:The shirt is too big for her.
The seam starts at the point where the collar starts.
You can see the seam in the other picture.
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Yes there is.

by **sharonl** 24.05.16 21:02

I started the discussion on the Everton picture, not because I felt that it was photo shopped but because I thought that Madeleine may have been used as a marketing tool for the club.

I don't know whether this is relevant but I just picked it up from Wiki re: Sir Phillip Green who donated £250,000 plus the use of his private Jet for the Vatican trip.

"He is heavily involved with Everton Football Club due to his friendship with chairman Bill Kenwright, but has no intention of formally investing in the club.^[28] He arranged for another friend, Planet Hollywood's owner Robert Earl, to purchase shares from former director Paul Gregg during a struggle for control of Everton in 2004.^[29] He offers business advice to the club alongside Tesco CEO Terry Leahy and helps negotiate player transfer fees with agents."^[30]

Is Madeleine being exploited here?

by Liz Eagles 24.05.16 21:50

sharonl wrote:I started the discussion on the Everton picture, not because I felt that it was photo shopped but because I thought that Madeleine may have been used as a marketing tool for the club.

I don't know whether this is relevant but I just picked it up from Wiki re: Sir Phillip Green who donated £250,000 plus the use of his private Jet for the Vatican trip.

"He is heavily involved with Everton Football Club due to his friendship with chairman Bill Kenwright, but has no intention of formally investing in the club.^[28] He arranged for another friend, Planet Hollywood's owner Robert Earl, to purchase shares from former director Paul Gregg during a struggle for control of Everton in 2004.^[29] He offers business advice to the club alongside Tesco CEO Terry Leahy and helps negotiate player transfer fees with agents."^[30]

Is Madeleine being exploited here?

I can definitely see your point Sharonl.

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