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Teacher stabbed to death in West Yorkshire High School

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Re: Teacher stabbed to death in West Yorkshire High School

Post by tigger on 30.04.14 17:49

This is an article about the Bulger murder. I'm posting it as it's relevant to the earlier discussion on violence in the media and children committing crimes.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/young/bulger/8.html

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Re: Teacher stabbed to death in West Yorkshire High School

Post by Guest on 30.04.14 20:11

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-27231425#"

The boy has now been charged with murder.


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Re: Teacher stabbed to death in West Yorkshire High School

Post by Guest on 30.04.14 21:15

As he should be.

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Re: Teacher stabbed to death in West Yorkshire High School

Post by Tony Bennett on 30.04.14 22:04

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:I'm actually rather proud of what I do...It hasn't all been 'violent' stuff by the way...
Just most of it?

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Re: Teacher stabbed to death in West Yorkshire High School

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 30.04.14 22:07

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:I'm actually rather proud of what I do...It hasn't all been 'violent' stuff by the way...
Just most of it?

I wonder what kind of reaction you are looking for from me. Am I being trolled by any chance?

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Re: Teacher stabbed to death in West Yorkshire High School

Post by Tony Bennett on 30.04.14 22:52

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:I'm actually rather proud of what I do...It hasn't all been 'violent' stuff by the way...
Just most of it?

I wonder what kind of reaction you are looking for from me.  
I was looking for a straightforward answer.

Like: '75%' or '50%', or whatever the actual percentage is

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Re: Teacher stabbed to death in West Yorkshire High School

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 30.04.14 22:56

@Tony Bennett wrote:
I was looking for a straightforward answer.

Like: '75%' or '50%', or whatever the actual percentage is

Why would I do that?  I've given you a little explanation of what I do seeing as you asked, but I didn't expect to be cross-examined.  I'm sorry, but I'm not going to go into any further detail about my personal life.  I've created many, many hours of fun entertainment for millions of people, both children and adults, and hopefully made some of them laugh a few times along the way.

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Re: Teacher stabbed to death in West Yorkshire High School

Post by Tony Bennett on 01.05.14 0:01

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
 I've created many, many hours of fun entertainment for millions of people, both children and adults, and hopefully made some of them laugh a few times along the way.
That certainly sounds like a considerable and worthwhile achievement. Well done!

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Re: Teacher stabbed to death in West Yorkshire High School

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 01.05.14 0:05

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
 I've created many, many hours of fun entertainment for millions of people, both children and adults, and hopefully made some of them laugh a few times along the way.
That certainly sounds like a considerable and worthwhile achievement. Well done!

Thank you Tony :)

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Re: Teacher stabbed to death in West Yorkshire High School

Post by Tony Bennett on 01.05.14 0:16

In another place, a 15-year-old at the same school where the teacher was murdered has penned this (second-hand) account of events:


I've also talked a few people who was actually there and here is the full account (at the best of my abilities):

In third lesson (from 11:15 to 12:15 I think) half the class were sent to a computer room to type up an essay whilst the rest was in the class. There were maybe about 15 or so in there, doing work. One girl got up to show Mrs her work so she stood by her desk with the teacher bent over it. Bear in mind the class layout: There are about 4 rows of desks, and one teacher's desk at the front. There is a door on the top left hand side and a big window at the back looking into a little area between another classroom.


Anyway, those two were over there. The killer was sat either in the computer room or in the actual class. (I don't know why this point has been disputed with other people I've interviewed.) I shall assume he was in the computer room. I think this because he could take the knife from his bag (it was too big to hide in his clothes) and disguise it without many people seeing. He then walked to the classroom, brandishing the knife, and stabbed her either in the neck or the back. The girl standing next to her was covered in blood, as was pretty much everyone, and everyone froze. One boy ran up and tried to wrestle him off but he got beaten back. People ran out screaming, and the teacher said something along the lines of "everyone get out, get everyone out of the classes". She must have thought he was going on a rampage. (What's interesting to note is that he didn't attempt to knife anyone else: only her.) And was trying to get everyone away. This next point is contested: either she ran out, chased and was stabbed again and fell into the gap between the classroom and the other, with him calmly dropping the knife at her feet or he went into the computer room and got a drink from his bag. Personally I believe the first because of what happened next. Because everyone was screaming, a geography teacher ran down the corridor and screamed at everyone to get away. He also apparently tackled him to the ground and as everyone had alerted other teachers more people came. An ambulance and police were called at around 11:48, but the rest is murky because all of my interviewees had run to get help.
Apparently another spanish teacher (from next door) ran in and cradled her in her arms. He was kept detained with a number of teachers.


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Re: Teacher stabbed to death in West Yorkshire High School

Post by russiandoll on 01.05.14 9:59

quote  "What's interesting to note is that he didn't attempt to knife anyone else: only her.) "

 If true it is interesting in the context of my communication with Julia Hartley- Brewer re her certainty that had this been the US this WOULD HAVE [ not could have] BEEN A MASSACRE.

 No conceding a possibility of a US teen having one person as a target, if his weapon was a gun.
 No conceding the possibility that in the confines of a classroom, the Leeds boy IF IT WAS HIS INTENTION could have inflicted serious injuries and multiple fatalities with a knife. Or if it was not his intention, but he was in a frenzy of anger.

 In the context of her AT LEAST IT WAS A KNIFE comment, I suggested she went to read about the horrific impact on a human body of a stabbing.

Her intelligent and mature reply?

 GO AND DO THE REVIEWS YOURSELF AS YOU'RE SO GOOD AT IT.

Her remarks re the preference of a teen having a knife and not a gun in a British classroom were not crass, she maintained, nor insensitive.
  I think Mrs Maguire's family might think otherwise.

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Re: Teacher stabbed to death in West Yorkshire High School

Post by littlepixie on 01.05.14 12:32

In my opinion gaming is the scourge of our youth today. Even a football game can hyper stimulate some children to the point where they lose all control. I read that the first video games were created to train US soldiers to kill without conscience. If that is true then what idiots we are to give them to our children.

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Re: Teacher stabbed to death in West Yorkshire High School

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 01.05.14 12:37

@littlepixie wrote:In my opinion gaming is the scourge of our youth today. Even a football game can hyper stimulate some children to the point where they lose all control. I read that the first video games were created to train US soldiers to kill without conscience. If that is true then what idiots we are to give them to our children.

Yes, it is well known that Pong is used to train cold-blooded assassins.

Serious answer - it isn't true.  It's by far one of the most ludicrous theories I have ever heard.  Examples of early video games are Pong, Donkey Kong, and Space Invaders.  None of which would be of any use in training someone to kill.

And in my opinion, the scourge of youth today is BAD PARENTING.

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Re: Teacher stabbed to death in West Yorkshire High School

Post by Guest on 01.05.14 12:39

I was just waiting for your response, WLBTS!

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Re: Teacher stabbed to death in West Yorkshire High School

Post by littlepixie on 01.05.14 17:54

Bad parenting DOES come into it, I agree. Bad parenting enables the child to become addicted in the first place. Being addicted to an X-box or a phone game can have a devastating affect on a childs mind. I see the consequences of that every single day.

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Re: Teacher stabbed to death in West Yorkshire High School

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 01.05.14 18:03

@littlepixie wrote:Bad parenting DOES come into it, I agree. Bad parenting enables the child to become addicted in the first place. Being addicted to an X-box or a phone game can have a devastating affect on a childs mind. I see the consequences of that every single day.

Well, that's your opinion. My opinion is that I know lots of kids who play games, including my own, and they're all perfectly well adjusted.

I was given a ZX Spectrum computer as a teenager.  It inspired me to learn how it worked, to develop my creativity, to study for a degree in Maths and Computer Science, and to become a software engineer. I simply don't recognise this Daily Mail version of the world that you describe.

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Re: Teacher stabbed to death in West Yorkshire High School

Post by aquila on 01.05.14 18:13

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
@littlepixie wrote:Bad parenting DOES come into it, I agree. Bad parenting enables the child to become addicted in the first place. Being addicted to an X-box or a phone game can have a devastating affect on a childs mind. I see the consequences of that every single day.

Well, that's your opinion. My opinion is that I know lots of kids who play games, including my own, and they're all perfectly well adjusted.

I was given a ZX Spectrum computer as a teenager.  It inspired me to learn how it worked, to develop my creativity, to study for a degree in Maths and Computer Science, and to become a software engineer.
I had Pong and my first computer was a Commodore Vic20  big grin

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Re: Teacher stabbed to death in West Yorkshire High School

Post by comperedna on 02.05.14 14:28

My first computer was an earlier version of the ZX Spectrum I think it was a ZX 81.  Many of my family have been involved in software development... husband in Mathematical software, daughter and son-in-law Website development and a lot else. My eldest grandchild was playing computer games in nappies, and gained lots of pleasure from them. His time at the computer was properly rationed! Next door's sons both worked in computer game development.  I feel it is weird these days to present WLBTS as anything other than a skilled game developer! Why shouldn't she/he enjoy playing them too as an adult! There are games and games. All sensible parents make sure children don't spend too long on computer games, but never ban them. There are such a great variety for children's pleasure and education. It is the balance, the mix of time spent on other things that matters... cricket, football, swimming, dancing, gymnastics, art and craft, playing out with your local mates, reading, school work etc. Anything done too much or too excess can become an addiction. I don't buy this 'people who enjoy computer games have something else lessened in their lives'.

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Re: Teacher stabbed to death in West Yorkshire High School

Post by Cristobell on 02.05.14 15:22

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
@littlepixie wrote:In my opinion gaming is the scourge of our youth today. Even a football game can hyper stimulate some children to the point where they lose all control. I read that the first video games were created to train US soldiers to kill without conscience. If that is true then what idiots we are to give them to our children.

Yes, it is well known that Pong is used to train cold-blooded assassins.

Serious answer - it isn't true.  It's by far one of the most ludicrous theories I have ever heard.  Examples of early video games are Pong, Donkey Kong, and Space Invaders.  None of which would be of any use in training someone to kill.

And in my opinion, the scourge of youth today is BAD PARENTING.
Totally agree, in a relaxed, loving and secure home, kids won't be bothered by computer games anymore than we were bothered by the video nasties that were forbidden to us.  

The children we have, are our own creations - we made them, we formed their characters, we gave them their morals and we taught them compassion. Nothing they see or hear can change what they are.  We cannot control the internet, the games they play or the films we see, the only thing we have control over is the way in which our children perceive what they see, and if they are happy and secure a game is just a game.

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Re: Teacher stabbed to death in West Yorkshire High School

Post by comperedna on 02.05.14 17:13

Grandson is in the kitchen now entertaining us with another joke book :-)  He was the one allowed to play computer games in nappies ... suitable ones and for only a short time at a time.  He is perfectly well adjusted and not obsessed. I agree with Christobel. It is decent parenting that is the point.

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Re: Teacher stabbed to death in West Yorkshire High School

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 02.05.14 22:11

@comperedna wrote:My first computer was an earlier version of the ZX Spectrum I think it was a ZX 81.  Many of my family have been involved in software development... husband in Mathematical software, daughter and son-in-law Website development and a lot else. My eldest grandchild was playing computer games in nappies, and gained lots of pleasure from them. His time at the computer was properly rationed! Next door's sons both worked in computer game development.  I feel it is weird these days to present WLBTS as anything other than a skilled game developer! Why shouldn't she/he enjoy playing them too as an adult! There are games and games. All sensible parents make sure children don't spend too long on computer games, but never ban them. There are such a great variety for children's pleasure and education. It is the balance, the mix of time spent on other things that matters... cricket, football, swimming, dancing, gymnastics, art and craft, playing out with your local mates, reading, school work etc. Anything done too much or too excess can become an addiction. I don't buy this 'people who enjoy computer games have something else lessened in their lives'.

Music to my ears, thanks for that comperedna :)  Ah, the ZX81 - the only computer with a keyboard worse than the Spectrum's!

Addiction can form over anything that gives you pleasure, and games can be very entertaining.  When it comes to your children, you have got to take control.  Both my children would play games at every waking hour if I let them, but I'm constantly telling them to switch the machines off and come and do something with me instead.  If you are consistent with this, then children will not get to the point of throwing tantrums when you try to stop them.  My kids expect me to tell them to stop, and so it doesn't bother them so much.  Also, they know I'm going to spend some fun time with them, which they enjoy.  We do lots of things - cooking, sports, you name it.  Many times, I use their love of games to my (and their) advantage.  We all sit around a table with some pen and paper, and I get them to design their ideal games, or to think up new things to put in existing games.  It develops their thinking processes and their creativity.  My daughter draws lovely pictures of the characters she thinks up, sketches out maps.  She makes up rules, which gives her practice at mathematics.  She makes stop-motion animations that she uploads onto YouTube.  There's no stopping her once her mind has been ignited.

You are responsible for your children.  Pushing the blame onto something else doesn't change that.

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Re: Teacher stabbed to death in West Yorkshire High School

Post by sami on 02.05.14 22:22

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
@littlepixie wrote:Bad parenting DOES come into it, I agree. Bad parenting enables the child to become addicted in the first place. Being addicted to an X-box or a phone game can have a devastating affect on a childs mind. I see the consequences of that every single day.

Well, that's your opinion. My opinion is that I know lots of kids who play games, including my own, and they're all perfectly well adjusted.

I was given a ZX Spectrum computer as a teenager.  It inspired me to learn how it worked, to develop my creativity, to study for a degree in Maths and Computer Science, and to become a software engineer.  I simply don't recognise this Daily Mail version of the world that you describe.


But are your 8 and 9 year olds paying games rated 18's where they can recreate rape scenes ?

As a parent to young boys, that is the biggest challenge I face with gaming.  They cannot comprehend why I will not allow these games in the house, so many of the children in their classes are allowed to play them.  That is the biggest issue.  They will happily play in wet weather, once the sun shines they drop the consoles and head outside.

We don't have a porn night......why would I allow them play 18 rated games ?  This is however happening regularly.

There is nothing wrong with age appropriate gaming, there are many fun game, many educational games, even football manager games can teach them money management etc.

The problem lies with bad parenting decisions.

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Re: Teacher stabbed to death in West Yorkshire High School

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 02.05.14 22:27

@sami wrote:
But are your 8 and 9 year olds paying games rated 18's where they can recreate rape scenes ?

As a parent to young boys, that is the biggest challenge I face with gaming.  They cannot comprehend why I will not allow these games in the house, so many of the children in their classes are allowed to play them.  That is the biggest issue.  They will happily play in wet weather, once the sun shines they drop the consoles and head outside.

We don't have a porn night......why would I allow them play 18 rated games ?  This is however happening regularly.

There is nothing wrong with age appropriate gaming, there are many fun game, many educational games, even football manager games can teach them money management etc.

The problem lies with bad parenting decisions.

Exactly.  My children (who are 14 and 11) are never allowed to play rated-18 games.  Lots of their friends do play them.  I'm amazed that their parents don't seem to know how to say 'NO'.

In the game industry, the certification process - we have PEGI here - is very time consuming and expensive.  The ratings bodies make us change loads of things in games to comply with a particular age rating. It can take months to get a game through certification.  And in my opinion, content that if it were in a film would be given a 12A rating, is regularly given an 18 rating in games.

Ratings are there for a purpose, don't ignore them folks.

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Re: Teacher stabbed to death in West Yorkshire High School

Post by Marian on 03.11.14 17:32


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Re: Teacher stabbed to death in West Yorkshire High School

Post by ultimaThule on 03.11.14 18:28

A minimum of 20 years for cold-blooded murder?   Last week a 'drug lord' got 25 years on a guilty plea to money laundering and conspiracy to supply Class A drugs and, albeit those substances may have caused the death of one or some who bought them, it can't be said he set out to kill with deliberate intent in the same manner that Cornick selected his victim and armed himself with a knife before snuffing out her life.        

In common with this young psychopath, little James Bulger's killers consistently failed to exhibit any remorse for the most heinous of crimes they committed in 1993 and both were released from youth custody in 2001.  

I doubt Cornick's minimum sentence will stand after the 'yuman rights' brigade get on the case.

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