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Why was 'the man from the creche' carrying his daughter home in her pyjamas?

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Why was 'the man from the creche' carrying his daughter home in her pyjamas?

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Re: Why was 'the man from the creche' carrying his daughter home in her pyjamas?

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 29.04.14 21:37

I suggested that Jane Tanner might have carried a dead Madeleine for a brief moment a little while back, and was roundly ridiculed for it :) I said at the time though that it was just speculation on my part, based on her slip in the Panorama interview.

I've no doubt that Tanner was picturing a person in her mind carrying a child as if it was dead at the moment of the slip. But this person could just have been a figment of her imagination. She does seem to have a fairly vivid imagination.

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Re: Why was 'the man from the creche' carrying his daughter home in her pyjamas?

Post by Guest on 29.04.14 21:38

Châtelaine wrote:Is it the late hour? Or is it really a lot of speculation, I see here?

As well as forum myths? E.g. : "I didn't realize that the dogs had detected a deaths scent on the clothing of one of the Tapas friends as well"
I couldn't find it in the Police Files earlier.

Hoping that its a vital piece of evidence the PJ originally kept aside. Ace up the sleeve sort of thing. 

On the other hand it could all be speculation of course.

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Re: Why was 'the man from the creche' carrying his daughter home in her pyjamas?

Post by Guest on 29.04.14 21:42

Châtelaine wrote:Is it the late hour? Or is it really a lot of speculation, I see here?

Of course, Chatelaine. All supposition and theory, like I said. Pure speculation, like most theories on here inevitably are.

But an interesting train of thought which has, in my own head and opinion, caused a few falling pennies to clang into place.

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Re: Why was 'the man from the creche' carrying his daughter home in her pyjamas?

Post by Guest on 29.04.14 21:48



Spot on Noddy100. 

Jane's hair tucked into the back of the top.

Tannerman = Tannerwoman = Jane Tanner.

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Re: Why was 'the man from the creche' carrying his daughter home in her pyjamas?

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 29.04.14 21:54

Andrew77R wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:Is it the late hour? Or is it really a lot of speculation, I see here?

As well as forum myths? E.g. : "I didn't realize that the dogs had detected a deaths scent on the clothing of one of the Tapas friends as well"
I couldn't find it in the Police Files earlier.

Hoping that its a vital piece of evidence the PJ originally kept aside. Ace up the sleeve sort of thing. 

On the other hand it could all be speculation of course.

Technically speaking, what you say here is definitely speculation, no 'could be' about it. :)

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Re: Why was 'the man from the creche' carrying his daughter home in her pyjamas?

Post by Tony Bennett on 29.04.14 22:03

Châtelaine wrote:Is it the late hour? Or is it really a lot of speculation, I see here?

As well as forum myths? E.g. : "I didn't realize that the dogs had detected a deaths scent on the clothing of one of the Tapas friends as well"
The Daily Mail report which claimed the dog(s) had alerted to cadaver odour on one of the Tapas 7's clothes was accompanied by a very specific reference in the article to South Yorkshire Police - which I think were the ones employing Martin Grime at that time. 

It certainly led to a great deal of forum speculation at the time that Jane Tanner might have handled a dead body.

But, fair point, Chatelaine, that Daily Mail article is AFAIK all the evidence we have of this particular matter

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Re: Why was 'the man from the creche' carrying his daughter home in her pyjamas?

Post by Guest on 29.04.14 22:03

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:Is it the late hour? Or is it really a lot of speculation, I see here?

As well as forum myths? E.g. : "I didn't realize that the dogs had detected a deaths scent on the clothing of one of the Tapas friends as well"
I couldn't find it in the Police Files earlier.

Hoping that its a vital piece of evidence the PJ originally kept aside. Ace up the sleeve sort of thing. 

On the other hand it could all be speculation of course.

Technically speaking, what you say here is definitely speculation, no 'could be' about it. :)
Yes of course. Sorry i should of worded it better.

I would like to know who the 'source' was of that Daily Mail Sept 26th 2007 article though.

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Re: Why was 'the man from the creche' carrying his daughter home in her pyjamas?

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 29.04.14 22:13

The question that really should be asked is: if Eddie did detect cadaverine on another one of the Tapas group's clothes, why then did the PJ not include this in the files?  What would be the reason to exclude this information?  I don't see how it's any more an 'ace' up anyone's sleeve, when it is already public knowledge that Eddie detected in 5A, in the hire car, and on Kate's clothes.

I cannot think of a reason why they would exclude it from the files.

Another possibility is that this story was planted on behalf of the McCanns as a threat to the Tapas group, which is what I think was behind the later story in the press about the carrier bag, jeans and fleece.  This is speculation on my part of course.  In my opinion this story was more likely a work of fiction by the press or a plant for the McCanns than a genuine leak.

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Re: Why was 'the man from the creche' carrying his daughter home in her pyjamas?

Post by Guest on 29.04.14 22:31

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:The question that really should be asked is: if Eddie did detect cadaverine on another one of the Tapas group's clothes, why then did the PJ not include this in the files?  What would be the reason to exclude this information?  I don't see how it's any more an 'ace' up anyone's sleeve, when it is already public knowledge that Eddie detected in 5A, in the hire car, and on Kate's clothes.

I cannot think of a reason why they would exclude it from the files.

Another possibility is that this story was planted on behalf of the McCanns as a threat to the Tapas group, which is what I think was behind the later story in the press about the carrier bag, jeans and fleece.  This is speculation on my part of course.  In my opinion this story was more likely a work of fiction by the press or a plant for the McCanns than a genuine leak.

Why withhold any of the files? But withold them the PJ did.

My guess is that anything the PJ were still investigating when the case was shelved that hadn't already become public knowledge (such as Eddie and Keela's alerting to the McCann items) was carefully kept tucked up their sleeves in the event that a time may come as time evolved to justify further investigation beyond the brick wall. And, as we know, that time has arrived. I would imagine, if the report of scent on another Tapas member is true, then that would come into the 'save it for later category'. Another example would be the bloody footprint, alluded to in the press as coming from a reliable source, but dismissed as having 'an innocent explanation' by 'a source close to the investigation'. Wonder who that could've been? If it's dear Clarrie you can be sure his dismissal is because the story has substance. Uncomfortable substance. In my opinion, as ever.

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Re: Why was 'the man from the creche' carrying his daughter home in her pyjamas?

Post by Tony Bennett on 29.04.14 22:33

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:The question that really should be asked is: if Eddie did detect cadaverine on another one of the Tapas group's clothes, why then did the PJ not include this in the files?  What would be the reason to exclude this information?  
The PJ have withheld a significant amount of evidence which they regard as material and confidential to their investigation.

The McCanns have been making concerted efforts, mainly through the review process of late, to get hold of those undisclosed files.

All the signs from Portugal are that those efforts have proved fruitless so far

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Re: Why was 'the man from the creche' carrying his daughter home in her pyjamas?

Post by canada12 on 29.04.14 22:38

Châtelaine wrote:Is it the late hour? Or is it really a lot of speculation, I see here?

As well as forum myths? E.g. : "I didn't realize that the dogs had detected a deaths scent on the clothing of one of the Tapas friends as well"
Sorry Chatelaine - I was responding to the earlier reporting of a newspaper story in which that was mentioned (below). I realize I may have jumped the gun by stating is as a fact, when, in fact, it was something that was written in a newspaper story and denied by Clarence Mitchell. Given Clarence Mitchell's track record of denials however, I tend to think there may be something in this. Obviously we cannot confirm it as it hasn't been confirmed (duh). But it is interesting to speculate, as you say. I wouldn't classify it as a forum myth, however. Forum myths can't be substantiated. In this case, the newspaper article does exist. So I'd say it was something that was written about in the press and subsequently whooshed from our consciousness. Deliberately perhaps.

Madeleine: Sniffer dogs 'found scent of death' on one of the McCanns' friends

Last updated at 09:29 26 September 2007

Friends of the McCanns faced fresh allegations yesterday after it was claimed that sniffer dogs had found the "scent of death" on one of them.

The same police dog which reacted to Mrs McCann's clothes - first causing suspicion to fall on her - was alleged to have smelled "death" on one of the friends who had dinner with the couple the night Madeleine vanished.

Police sources briefed a Portuguese newspaper that two police dogs from South Yorkshire, trained to detect corpses, human remains and microscopic traces of blood, had reacted to some items of clothing.

Family spokesman Clarence Mitchell denied categorically that any such procedure had happened.

The newspaper did not reveal which of the friends' clothing was meant to have triggered the reaction. Police in South Yorkshire refused to comment.

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Re: Why was 'the man from the creche' carrying his daughter home in her pyjamas?

Post by Guest on 29.04.14 22:39

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:The question that really should be asked is: if Eddie did detect cadaverine on another one of the Tapas group's clothes, why then did the PJ not include this in the files?  What would be the reason to exclude this information?  
The PJ have withheld a significant amount of evidence which they regard as material and confidential to their investigation.

The McCanns have been making concerted efforts, mainly through the review process of late, to get hold of those undisclosed files.

All the signs from Portugal are that those efforts have proved fruitless so far

 dance And my belief is that this is the sole reason for the continuation of the lame Operation Grange. It is imperative from a Brit perspective that they infiltrate the PJ investigation, discover this elusive evidence and the direction of the case, and then be in a position to undermine it. Speculative theory, yet again!

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Re: Why was 'the man from the creche' carrying his daughter home in her pyjamas?

Post by Guest on 29.04.14 22:41

I have it from reliable source, that there were indeed files withheld for privacy reasons. E.g. the records of registered paedophile offenders. However, having now read here the latest non-founded speculations, I think it's best I lay my head to rest. Bonne nuit.

ETA wake me up, when there's more than an old UK newspaper article [one] to proof something ...  big grin 

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Re: Why was 'the man from the creche' carrying his daughter home in her pyjamas?

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 29.04.14 22:42

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:The question that really should be asked is: if Eddie did detect cadaverine on another one of the Tapas group's clothes, why then did the PJ not include this in the files?  What would be the reason to exclude this information?  
The PJ have withheld a significant amount of evidence which they regard as material and confidential to their investigation.

The McCanns have been making concerted efforts, mainly through the review process of late, to get hold of those undisclosed files.

All the signs from Portugal are that those efforts have proved fruitless so far

My words make more sense when you consider the entire paragraph:

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
The question that really should be asked is: if Eddie did detect cadaverine on another one of the Tapas group's clothes, why then did the PJ not include this in the files?  What would be the reason to exclude this information? I don't see how it's any more an 'ace' up anyone's sleeve, when it is already public knowledge that Eddie detected in 5A, in the hire car, and on Kate's clothes.

Why would this be excluded from the files (but leaked to the press) when the rest of the cadaver dog findings wasn't?

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Re: Why was 'the man from the creche' carrying his daughter home in her pyjamas?

Post by Tony Bennett on 29.04.14 22:49

Châtelaine wrote:I have it from reliable source, that there were indeed files withheld for privacy reasons. E.g. the records of registered paedophile offenders.
Come, come, Chatelains, 'a reliable source'?

For someone to be able to tell you exactly why a considerable number of PJ files were withheld, they must be very very high up in the PJ.

Be bold!

Name your 'reliable source'

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Re: Why was 'the man from the creche' carrying his daughter home in her pyjamas?

Post by Guest on 29.04.14 22:51

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

Why would this be excluded from the files (but leaked to the press) when the rest of the cadaver dog findings wasn't?
Am i missing something. I thought at some point in the early stages IT WAS in the press about the Cadaver and EVRD dog findings associated with Apt 5a, the hirecar, Cuddlecat etc etc.....??

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Re: Why was 'the man from the creche' carrying his daughter home in her pyjamas?

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 29.04.14 22:56

Andrew77R wrote:
@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

Why would this be excluded from the files (but leaked to the press) when the rest of the cadaver dog findings wasn't?
Am i missing something. I thought at some point in the early stages IT WAS in the press about the Cadaver and EVRD dog findings associated with Apt 5a, the hirecar, Cuddlecat etc etc.....??

I'm not sure I understand what your meaning is. I didn't say that any of that wasn't in the press.

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Re: Why was 'the man from the creche' carrying his daughter home in her pyjamas?

Post by plebgate on 29.04.14 22:57

IIRC one of the  police witnesses (for) Rocky A. at the libel trial said that as far as he knew the only info withheld were the names of paedophiles.

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Re: Why was 'the man from the creche' carrying his daughter home in her pyjamas?

Post by Guest on 29.04.14 23:00

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

Why would this be excluded from the files (but leaked to the press) when the rest of the cadaver dog findings wasn't?
Am i missing something. I thought at some point in the early stages IT WAS in the press about the Cadaver and EVRD dog findings associated with Apt 5a, the hirecar, Cuddlecat etc etc.....??

I'm not sure I understand what your meaning is.  I didn't say that any of that wasn't in the press.
Apologies, i might of misunderstood then.

I thought you meant why was the Tapas member with cadaver scent leaked to the press but the rest of the cadaver dog findings wasn't leaked to the press...

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Re: Why was 'the man from the creche' carrying his daughter home in her pyjamas?

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 29.04.14 23:03

Andrew77R wrote:
Apologies, i might of misunderstood then.

I thought you meant why was the Tapas member with cadaver scent leaked to the press but the rest of the cadaver dog findings wasn't leaked to the press...

Ah, I see :)  No, my question was why was the Daily Mail story mentioned above leaked to the press but excluded from the files (assuming that the story was true), when the rest of the cadaver dog findings were both released to the press and included in the files. I'm not assuming that the story was true at all though, that is something that we simply don't know.

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Re: Why was 'the man from the creche' carrying his daughter home in her pyjamas?

Post by canada12 on 29.04.14 23:10

Here's a list of the information not released by the PJ:

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MISSING_PAGES.htm

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Re: Why was 'the man from the creche' carrying his daughter home in her pyjamas?

Post by Guest on 29.04.14 23:10

@Tony Bennett wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:I have it from reliable source, that there were indeed files withheld for privacy reasons. E.g. the records of registered paedophile offenders.
Come, come, Chatelains, 'a reliable source'?

For someone to be able to tell you exactly why a considerable number of PJ files were withheld, they must be very very high up in the PJ.

Be bold!

Name your 'reliable source'
***
You must be kidding, Tony.
Good night again.

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Re: Why was 'the man from the creche' carrying his daughter home in her pyjamas?

Post by diatribe on 29.04.14 23:16

Firstly, I think that we can safely disregard any sightings or timelines that either the McCanns or the Met. Police are pointing us in the direction of. With respect to  the Tapas group, you have  to put yourself in the position the McCanns possibly found themselves. Hypothetically, you are on holiday with a group of acquaintances and your child dies in circumstances that you can't legitimately explain. You are then faced with the prospect of losing your career, your other children, gaol and the possibility of losing your home if you inform the authorities. In other words, your life as you know it is over.

As a consequence of the aforementioned, you decide to dispose of your child's body and concoct a story that it has been kidnapped, thereby raising the stakes and by default the risks. Would you entrust your liberty, your finances and your career with a group of people, some of whom you barely know, by informing them all of what has transpired whilst enlisting their aid to dispose of the body, or would you merely use them to help you unwittingly without their knowing what exactly had occurred?

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Re: Why was 'the man from the creche' carrying his daughter home in her pyjamas?

Post by Guest on 29.04.14 23:35

@canada12 wrote:Here's a list of the information not released by the PJ:

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MISSING_PAGES.htm
Hiya Canada12.

Looked at that. Really don't get it though.

'A list of information not released' but then release snippets of what it is they are not releasing...

For example. Volume 2.

'List of individuals with the practice of sex crimes with minor and adolescents'
'Reference to an individual with the practice of paedophilier'

No wonder that Clarrie and the tabloids are coming up with allsorts then. It's there in black and white to make a reference from.... 

Surely if the P.J didn't want certain info released then they would do exactly that. Not release it and certainly not give a brief outline of what it is they are not releasing?

Or am i missing something here. It is late and all that!!!

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