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Operation Grange Update

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Re: Operation Grange Update

Post by Tony Bennett on 23.04.14 20:57

@diatribe wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@lj wrote:

Come, come, Tony. This all is a very clever plot to lull the real perpetrators into a false sense of security.

VERY clever....
So I am told by some on this forum.

But, in the immortal words of Wendy Murphy...

...I'm not buying it

You're obviously a tad tired tonight, Tony, I think Ij was being ironical.
On the contrary, diatribe, the irony was staring at me in the face, and lj and I know each other very well (well, at least, on this and other forums we do) - and I responded to just that irony.

Sorry you didn't recognise that this time!

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Operation Grange

Post by Jauna Loca on 23.04.14 21:11

Still clutching at (hope) straws here. Something happened this time last year to move from this

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/312299/McCanns-We-still-hope-Maddie-will-be-found

to this 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/10030318/McCanns-admit-struggle-to-give-twins-normal-childhood-after-Madeleines-disappearance.html
in a matter of days.

The McCanns have been conspicious in their absence (so far) during the run up to this anniversary.
Hope, hope, hope there's further positive surprises in the pipeline for this anniversary.

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Re: Operation Grange Update

Post by AndyB on 23.04.14 21:24

@SchrodingersBody wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
@jeanmonroe wrote:Deputy Assistant Commissioner Martin Hewitt said Prime Minister David Cameron and Home Secretary Theresa May have expressed a personal interest in the case, and stand ready to interfere intervene.......if necessary.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2611146/BREAKING-NEWS-Police-investigate-claims-five-British-girls-sexually-assaulted-Algarve-lone-intruder-hunt-smelly-pot-bellied-Madeleine-McCann-suspect.html

The MET making damned 'sure' THEY aren't the ONLY ones going to be 'implicated' in any possible, exposed, 'cover up'

imo, obviously.
Re the bit in blue: Why do they have a personal interest in this particular case? Is it because something that embarrasses the powers that be could become public knowledge were this case allowed to be investigated independently? If so what on earth could that be?

(The final question is rhetorical and is designed to cause readers to think about the possibilities. If you do want to answer it publicly be very careful not to commit libel)


Why are you personally interested in the case, why am I, why are we all ?...... interest in the case does not have to be sinister.

Personally I think we've got some good cop, bad cop going on, where the guys portraying the good role are the British, and the Portugese are playing bad cop. Everybody knows roughly what went on, and everybody "knows" who was primarily responsible. It's just not in enough detail to bring charges.
I am neither Prime Minister nor Home Secretary. Can you not see the significance of the holders of these two high offices publicly expressing a personal interest?

Can you explain in a little more detail what behaviours the Met and the PJ are demonstrating that leads you to conclude that SY are playing good cop and PJ are playing bad cop? I might be being thick but I really can't see how anyone could come to that conclusion

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Re: Operation Grange Update

Post by Woofer on 23.04.14 22:38

@AndyB wrote:
@SchrodingersBody wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
@jeanmonroe wrote:Deputy Assistant Commissioner Martin Hewitt said Prime Minister David Cameron and Home Secretary Theresa May have expressed a personal interest in the case, and stand ready to interfere intervene.......if necessary.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2611146/BREAKING-NEWS-Police-investigate-claims-five-British-girls-sexually-assaulted-Algarve-lone-intruder-hunt-smelly-pot-bellied-Madeleine-McCann-suspect.html

The MET making damned 'sure' THEY aren't the ONLY ones going to be 'implicated' in any possible, exposed, 'cover up'

imo, obviously.
Re the bit in blue: Why do they have a personal interest in this particular case? Is it because something that embarrasses the powers that be could become public knowledge were this case allowed to be investigated independently? If so what on earth could that be?

(The final question is rhetorical and is designed to cause readers to think about the possibilities. If you do want to answer it publicly be very careful not to commit libel)


Why are you personally interested in the case, why am I, why are we all ?...... interest in the case does not have to be sinister.

Personally I think we've got some good cop, bad cop going on, where the guys portraying the good role are the British, and the Portugese are playing bad cop. Everybody knows roughly what went on, and everybody "knows" who was primarily responsible. It's just not in enough detail to bring charges.
I am neither Prime Minister nor Home Secretary. Can you not see the significance of the holders of these two high offices publicly expressing a personal interest?

Can you explain in a little more detail what behaviours the Met and the PJ are demonstrating that leads you to conclude that SY are playing good cop and PJ are playing bad cop? I might be being thick but I really can't see how anyone could come to that conclusion
You can add Charles and Camilla to that list as well.  But what the common denominator is I really don't know.

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Re: Operation Grange Update

Post by aiyoyo on 24.04.14 1:21

It makes no sense for DC and TM to want to be seen as having a personal interest in a whitewash.  Wouldn't that be career suicide?

The modus operandi of a whitewash is surely for it to be done clandestinely ensuring no one will be any wiser about the shadow hands involved in it.

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Re: Operation Grange Update

Post by Tony Bennett on 24.04.14 8:00

@aiyoyo wrote:
The modus operandi of a whitewash is surely for it to be done clandestinely ensuring no one will be any wiser about the shadow hands involved in it.
aiyoyo, the reverse is often the case.

A cover-up, or whitewash, is often accomplished in the most high profile of circumstances and in the full glare of publicity.

The 'trick' is to bury all the embarrassing details about the case whilst at the same time giving every appearance of having done an honest and thorough investigation.

Take the initial enquiries into 'Bloody Sunday' which blamed Irish republicans for starting the shooting. It needed the Savile enquiry some 40 years later to establish the truth, when TWO previous and very public enquiries had whitewashed/covered up the role of the police (then the Royal Ulster Constabulary) in preciptating the killings.

Also look at the cover-up of the Dunblane killings of 15 children and a teacher. The very public Cullen report blamed the availability of hand guns for the murder of those children, and recommended it be illegal to hold them, whilst at the very same time covering up the fact that paedophile Thomas Hamilton had been allowed to keep his firearms, against the recommendation of a police Firearms Officer who filed an official report saying that he was unsuitable to retain his firearms certtificate.   

Because Hamilton provided boys for perverted senior police officers, senior members of the Scottish political establishment and others, Lord Cullen sealed the records for an almost unprecedented 100 years - and minimised (and all but eliminated all mention nof) the corruption which had allowed him to carry on his paedophilia unmolested by the Scottish police.

Likewise, Redwood's endless procession of almost unbelieveable statistics: thousands of actions, hundreds of lines of enquiry, tens of thousands of mobile phones, dozens of countires, hundreds of sex offenders to eliminate, tens of thousands of documents examined, dozens of suspects etc. etc. will allow the Met (if they can get away with it) to say, at the end of the day, that they have 'left no stone unturned' to find out the truth.

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Re: Operation Grange Update

Post by aquila on 24.04.14 8:10

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
The modus operandi of a whitewash is surely for it to be done clandestinely ensuring no one will be any wiser about the shadow hands involved in it.
aiyoyo, the reverse is often the case.

A cover-up, or whitewash, is often accomplished in the most high profile of circumstances and in the full glare of publicity.

The 'trick' is to bury all the embarrassing details about the case whilst at the same time giving every appearance of having done an honest and thorough investigation.

Take the initial enquiries into 'Bloody Sunday' which blamed Irish republicans for starting the shooting. It needed the Savile enquiry some 40 years later to establish the truth, when TWO previous and very public enquiries had whitewashed/covered up the role of the police (then the Royal Ulster Constabulary) in preciptating the killings.

Also look at the cover-up of the Dunblane killings of 15 children and a teacher. The very public Cullen report blamed the availability of hand guns for the murder of those children, and recommended it be illegal to hold them, whilst at the very same time covering up the fact that paedophile Thomas Hamilton had been allowed to keep his firearms, against the recommendation of a police Firearms Officer who filed an official report saying that he was unsuitable to retain his firearms certtificate.   

Because Hamilton provided boys for perverted senior police officers, senior members of the Scottish political establishment and others, Lord Cullen sealed the records for an almost unprecedented 100 years - and minimised (and all but eliminated all mention nof) the corruption which had allowed him to carry on his paedophilia unmolested by the Scottish police.

Likewise, Redwood's endless procession of almost unbelieveable statistics: thousands of actions, hundreds of lines of enquiry, tens of thousands of mobile phones, dozens of countires, hundreds of sex offenders to eliminate, tens of thousands of documents examined, dozens of suspects etc. etc. will allow the Met (if they can get away with it) to say, at the end of the day, that they have 'left no stone unturned' to find out the truth.
 bravo

ETA: there will be a change of government/government leader, the retirement of various people in the police service and it all goes back to square one....which is shuffling about on gravel rather than looking under stones.

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Re: Operation Grange Update

Post by AndyB on 24.04.14 8:14

And don't forget it would have been an entirely clandestine cover-up had the Portuguese not published the case files.

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Re: Operation Grange Update

Post by Gillyspot on 24.04.14 8:20

Agreed.  Just look at Hillsborough & Bryn Estyn etc  if you need any more evidence that UK PLC do "coverups" - when it suits the establishment = NOT the victims!  sad1

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Re: Operation Grange Update

Post by AndyB on 24.04.14 8:29

@Gillyspot wrote:Agreed.  Just look at Hillsborough & Bryn Estyn etc  if you need any more evidence that UK PLC do "coverups" - when it suits the establishment = NOT the victims!  sad1
So again I'm back to wondering what on earth it could be that the establishment want covered up

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Re: Operation Grange Update

Post by Cristobell on 24.04.14 8:47

@Woofer wrote:My goodness, doesn't their desperation to clear the Mcs show?  The extreme lengths SY are going to, merely to clear this couples' names, is beyond ridiculous and we can only wonder why that is.
Yeh. its not really clear what SY's remit is, find the child or clear the parents.

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Re: Operation Grange Update

Post by aiyoyo on 24.04.14 9:26

@ TB
A cover-up, or whitewash, is often accomplished in the most high profile of circumstances and in the full glare of publicity.

The 'trick' is to bury all the embarrassing details about the case whilst at the same time giving every appearance of having done an honest and thorough investigation.



Granted that's exactly what white wash is about, ie using publicity to pull the wool over the public of a high profile case, but does not square with DC and TM wanting to be seen personally involved in the otherwise clandestine operation?  


 Isn't the  'trick' not to let the public know the identity/ies of top shot/s allowing the coverup; isn't that the whole point?
The public can be left to guess at whatever they like but the real culprit/s (the dark hands of Parliament involvement)  is never common public knowledge; and it would take an inquiry investigation into the cover up to flash them out if at all possible.  
Usually the top player holding all this together is the last to be exposed as the whole point of an inquiry into a cover up is to hold somebody accountable and have their head on the chopping board.

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Re: Operation Grange Update

Post by Guest on 24.04.14 11:57

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
The modus operandi of a whitewash is surely for it to be done clandestinely ensuring no one will be any wiser about the shadow hands involved in it.
aiyoyo, the reverse is often the case.

A cover-up, or whitewash, is often accomplished in the most high profile of circumstances and in the full glare of publicity.

The 'trick' is to bury all the embarrassing details about the case whilst at the same time giving every appearance of having done an honest and thorough investigation.

Take the initial enquiries into 'Bloody Sunday' which blamed Irish republicans for starting the shooting. It needed the Savile enquiry some 40 years later to establish the truth, when TWO previous and very public enquiries had whitewashed/covered up the role of the police (then the Royal Ulster Constabulary) in preciptating the killings.

Also look at the cover-up of the Dunblane killings of 15 children and a teacher. The very public Cullen report blamed the availability of hand guns for the murder of those children, and recommended it be illegal to hold them, whilst at the very same time covering up the fact that paedophile Thomas Hamilton had been allowed to keep his firearms, against the recommendation of a police Firearms Officer who filed an official report saying that he was unsuitable to retain his firearms certtificate.   

Because Hamilton provided boys for perverted senior police officers, senior members of the Scottish political establishment and others, Lord Cullen sealed the records for an almost unprecedented 100 years - and minimised (and all but eliminated all mention nof) the corruption which had allowed him to carry on his paedophilia unmolested by the Scottish police.

Likewise, Redwood's endless procession of almost unbelieveable statistics: thousands of actions, hundreds of lines of enquiry, tens of thousands of mobile phones, dozens of countires, hundreds of sex offenders to eliminate, tens of thousands of documents examined, dozens of suspects etc. etc. will allow the Met (if they can get away with it) to say, at the end of the day, that they have 'left no stone unturned' to find out the truth.

 clapping 

We are living in a sick, corrupt world where the lunatics have not only taken over the asylum, but have become very adept at convincing us that it is the dissenters who are the madmen when they try to challenge the official line.

Our frustration with this case stems, in my opinion, from the fact that we are witnessing such a farce from SY, a perfect example of 'them' trying to convince us that black is white.

Our hopes rely on the PJ, and the possibility that a powerful member of the cover-up coalition may have reason to blow the case if events evolve such that to remain complicit is no longer in that powerful body's best interests. Who that body would or could be, or if it even exists, is moot.

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Re: Operation Grange Update

Post by PeterMac on 24.04.14 13:27

" />

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Re: Operation Grange Update

Post by gbwales on 24.04.14 13:51

@Tony Bennett wrote:Likewise, Redwood's endless procession of almost unbelieveable statistics: thousands of actions, hundreds of lines of enquiry, tens of thousands of mobile phones, dozens of countires, hundreds of sex offenders to eliminate, tens of thousands of documents examined, dozens of suspects etc. etc. will allow the Met (if they can get away with it) to say, at the end of the day, that they have 'left no stone unturned' to find out the truth.

I would hope that until they are able to put forward an unequivocal view on crucial touchpoints such as Eddie and Keela's findings and the need for a proper and full reconstruction, they will simply not be allowed to say they have left no stone unturned.

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Re: Operation Grange Update

Post by diatribe on 24.04.14 13:56

Dee Coy wrote:





 a perfect example of 'them' trying to convince us that black is white.

They're not trying to convince us, DeeCoy, its a bit like politicians at election times whereby they only require to pursuade a certain percentage of people eligible to vote to actually do so. Of those that do bother to vote, they're only looking to captivate enough to gain an overall majority, hence we end up with a gov. that maybe 12-15 million voted for, although circa 45 million didn't, but its enough.

They achieve this with the aid of their handmaidens, the media, who are to all intents and purpose, a military weapon. I, as Harold Wison was once incorrectly rumoured to have done, only ever read the newspapers for the cricket scores, but as previously stated, since the advent of the internet, I no longer even peruse them for this purpose.

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Re: Operation Grange Update

Post by diatribe on 24.04.14 14:07

@gbwales wrote:

I would hope that until they are able to put forward an unequivocal view on crucial touchpoints such as Eddie and Keela's findings and the need for a proper and full reconstruction, they will simply not be allowed to say they have left no stone unturned.

When did you last hear the names of Eddie and Keela mentioned in the media, Wales, and perhaps more poignantly, has our intrepid inspector Clouseau ever mentioned them. As far as the media goes, the Dodo is the height of fashion by comparison. big grin

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Re: Operation Grange Update

Post by Guest on 24.04.14 14:16

@diatribe.

As Einstein once said:
“The world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it.” 

Or to misquote Marx:
"Comfort is the opium of the masses"

And the silent majority(?) remain quiet.

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Re: Operation Grange Update

Post by diatribe on 24.04.14 14:19

Dee Coy wrote:@diatribe.

As Einstein once said:
“The world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it.” 

Or to misquote Marx:
"Comfort is the opium of the masses"

And the silent majority(?) remain quiet.

Very eloquently put, dear boy.

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Re: Operation Grange Update

Post by PeterMac on 24.04.14 14:35

"It has been said that for evil men to accomplish their purpose it is only necessary that good men should do nothing."

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Re: Operation Grange Update

Post by russiandoll on 24.04.14 14:43

The burning question for me is who is going to have the moral courage to step up and bring the merry-go-round to a halt ?

  I am disgusted by the Star front page, showing a smiling couple at a football game, parents whose child is now reportedly considered as perhaps having been harmed and in all probability killed by a sexual predator. Who decided to use this photo out of the hundreds they had to choose from?

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Re: Operation Grange Update

Post by PeterMac on 24.04.14 15:02

@russiandoll wrote:The burning question for me is who is going to have the moral courage to step up and bring the merry-go-round to a halt ?

  I am disgusted by the Star front page, showing a smiling couple at a football game, parents whose child is now reportedly considered as perhaps having been harmed and in all probability killed by a sexual predator. Who decided to use this photo out of the hundreds they had to choose from?
Perhaps someone with a sense of humour, showing the couple as they really are.
Perhaps, like most of us, photos of them putting on their "sad faces" are just too much.

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Re: Operation Grange Update

Post by lj on 24.04.14 15:09

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@lj wrote:

Come, come, Tony. This all is a very clever plot to lull the real perpetrators into a false sense of security.

VERY clever....
So I am told by some on this forum.

But, in the immortal words of Wendy Murphy...

...I'm not buying it


Neither am I. If all this comes from Pinky why doesn't SY make some corrections? It does not really reflect well on them, does it?

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Re: Operation Grange Update

Post by lj on 24.04.14 15:11

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@diatribe wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@lj wrote:

Come, come, Tony. This all is a very clever plot to lull the real perpetrators into a false sense of security.

VERY clever....
So I am told by some on this forum.

But, in the immortal words of Wendy Murphy...

...I'm not buying it

You're obviously a tad tired tonight, Tony, I think Ij was being ironical.
On the contrary, diatribe, the irony was staring at me in the face, and lj and I know each other very well (well, at least, on this and other forums we do) - and I responded to just that irony.

Sorry you didn't recognise that this time!

It's good to give the opportunity to get something across. Tony never fails in that.

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Re: Operation Grange Update

Post by lj on 24.04.14 15:14

@Woofer wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
@SchrodingersBody wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
@jeanmonroe wrote:Deputy Assistant Commissioner Martin Hewitt said Prime Minister David Cameron and Home Secretary Theresa May have expressed a personal interest in the case, and stand ready to interfere intervene.......if necessary.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2611146/BREAKING-NEWS-Police-investigate-claims-five-British-girls-sexually-assaulted-Algarve-lone-intruder-hunt-smelly-pot-bellied-Madeleine-McCann-suspect.html

The MET making damned 'sure' THEY aren't the ONLY ones going to be 'implicated' in any possible, exposed, 'cover up'

imo, obviously.
Re the bit in blue: Why do they have a personal interest in this particular case? Is it because something that embarrasses the powers that be could become public knowledge were this case allowed to be investigated independently? If so what on earth could that be?

(The final question is rhetorical and is designed to cause readers to think about the possibilities. If you do want to answer it publicly be very careful not to commit libel)


Why are you personally interested in the case, why am I, why are we all ?...... interest in the case does not have to be sinister.

Personally I think we've got some good cop, bad cop going on, where the guys portraying the good role are the British, and the Portugese are playing bad cop. Everybody knows roughly what went on, and everybody "knows" who was primarily responsible. It's just not in enough detail to bring charges.
I am neither Prime Minister nor Home Secretary. Can you not see the significance of the holders of these two high offices publicly expressing a personal interest?

Can you explain in a little more detail what behaviours the Met and the PJ are demonstrating that leads you to conclude that SY are playing good cop and PJ are playing bad cop? I might be being thick but I really can't see how anyone could come to that conclusion
You can add Charles and Camilla to that list as well.  But what the common denominator is I really don't know.

White damsel in distress syndrome.

They all think to score with this, and they do, just not as they wanted.

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