The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Hi,

A very warm welcome to The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ forum.

Please log in, or register to view all the forums, then settle in and start chatting with us!

Enjoy your day,

Jill Havern
Forum owner

SY and PJ fall out - Sunday Express

Page 3 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: SY and PJ fall out - Sunday Express

Post by Bishop Brennan on 25.03.14 13:53

SY do seem to be furious that the PJ won't tell them what they are up to.  Wheeling out BHH to talk about 'closing in' but stuck behind the process.  Then Andy smirking on CW as he revealed some PJ info. Follow that up with Martin Hewett moaning about 'the process' and finally DC himself offering to muscle in.  All in the space of a few weeks. All played to a willing media.  

But the PJ are not reacting. They told SY to shut their traps and get on with the job which worked for a week or two, but then up popped Andy for another go. Are they panicking? Why?  In case the PJ make then look stupid? I'm not sure they need any help with that if recent cases and headlines are anything to go by.

Bishop Brennan

Posts : 695
Reputation : 217
Join date : 2013-10-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: SY and PJ fall out - Sunday Express

Post by aiyoyo on 25.03.14 13:57

@mariola wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@ Texsuta
The Guardian confirms QUOTED words. Confirms Maddie being alive is not what SY thinks. It refers after the assumption that she was abducted. So, to simply add 2 and 2, Maddie was abducted dead.

Abducted dead ?
As in someone outside of the holiday group came and took away Maddie's body ?
As in Kate's  "they've taken her " ?  

"they" could have been rob and mo.

@ Textusa
That, in turn, can only mean that SY have DNA from Maddie’s crime scene that is not from any of the McCanns, the T7 or from any other person who has a reason to have been inside that apartment.

aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 318
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: SY and PJ fall out - Sunday Express

Post by pennylane on 25.03.14 15:00

@Bishop Brennan wrote:SY do seem to be furious that the PJ won't tell them what they are up to.  Wheeling out BHH to talk about 'closing in' but stuck behind the process.  Then Andy smirking on CW as he revealed some PJ info. Follow that up with Martin Hewett moaning about 'the process' and finally DC himself offering to muscle in.  All in the space of a few weeks. All played to a willing media.  

But the PJ are not reacting. They told SY to shut their traps and get on with the job which worked for a week or two, but then up popped Andy for another go. Are they panicking? Why?  In case the PJ make then look stupid? I'm not sure they need any help with that if recent cases and headlines are anything to go by.

I agree with every word, BishopB!

Offering a juicy reward whilst endlessly and consistently massacring the details of that ill-fated night, are sure signs  DCI Redwood has no interest in nailing the McCanns


Let's hope the damn is about to burst, in spite of massive efforts by the Met to rewrite history.

pennylane

Posts : 2529
Reputation : 1189
Join date : 2009-12-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: SY and PJ fall out - Sunday Express

Post by Guest on 25.03.14 18:12

@Bishop Brennan wrote: 

But the PJ are not reacting. They told SY to shut their traps and get on with the job which worked for a week or two, but then up popped Andy for another go. Are they panicking? Why?  In case the PJ make then look stupid? I'm not sure they need any help with that if recent cases and headlines are anything to go by.
I'm more inclined to hope that it's because the PJ are about to conclude their investigation and the scales are about to be stripped from the eyes of the UK public with regard to the McCanns.

This could merit the desperation of the Met to 'join forces' with the PJ, the intervention of Cameron, the panic and covering stories (possible corpse in the apartment) dropped to the press we are seeing from SY, the apparent abolishment of the libel trial and GA's blooming health and recent interview.

I hope. pray2 

Dirty tricks and political intervention imminent? If so, we know it's true.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: SY and PJ fall out - Sunday Express

Post by ultimaThule on 25.03.14 20:22

The libel trial can't be 'abolished', Dee Coy.

ultimaThule

Posts : 3355
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2013-09-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: SY and PJ fall out - Sunday Express

Post by Guest on 25.03.14 21:09

@ultimaThule wrote:The libel trial can't be 'abolished', Dee Coy.

I know. Excuse my non-legal brain's crassness. It does seem to have 'gone away', though. I do wonder if either new evidence (maybe also prompting the possibly-dead-in-the-apartment allusion from SY) or the wardship issue means the libel trial is unable to resume.

Would anyone knowm if the Portuguese are obliged to announce publicly if a libel trial has been terminated for whatever reason, or if this would be a private matter between the plaintiffs and the defendants? Or will it all merely be 'on hold'?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: SY and PJ fall out - Sunday Express

Post by ultimaThule on 25.03.14 21:50

Dee Coy wrote:
@ultimaThule wrote:The libel trial can't be 'abolished', Dee Coy.

I know. Excuse my non-legal brain's crassness. It does seem to have 'gone away', though. I do wonder if either new evidence (maybe also  prompting the possibly-dead-in-the-apartment allusion from SY) or the wardship issue means the libel trial is unable to resume.

Would anyone knowm if the Portuguese are obliged to announce publicly if a libel trial has been terminated for whatever reason, or if this would be a private matter between the plaintiffs and the defendants? Or will it all merely be 'on hold'?
Sincere apologies, Dee - my response wasn't intended as an admonishment and if it appears that way, it's the result of my trying to multi-mulitask and failing dismally   sad  < holds head in hands and stares at scene of utter chaos in kitchen >

I added a response to this thread a couple of days ago, since when it appears to have gone offtopic: http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8887p240-libel-trial-7th-jan-postponed-confirmed#235180 which is a shame as I was hoping others would be able to provide insight as to why the trial appears to be in abeyance.

If the trial is ended for any reason there'll be no obligation on the parties to the proceedings or on the court/other authorities to publish any details relating to the matter and, providing they haven't been gagged by the court, there'll be no reason for either the plantiffs or the defendants to stay schtum.

Another waiting game awaits...  smilie

ultimaThule

Posts : 3355
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2013-09-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: SY and PJ fall out - Sunday Express

Post by Guest on 25.03.14 22:21

Dr. Amaral was quite outspoken recently, whilst the trial was still going on ... [or not ...] ... [or ...] ...

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: SY and PJ fall out - Sunday Express

Post by ultimaThule on 25.03.14 22:49

Dr Amaral has been noticeably outspoken of late, Chatelaine, while the family source seems to be strangely reticent about recent events.  smilie

ultimaThule

Posts : 3355
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2013-09-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: SY and PJ fall out - Sunday Express

Post by Guest on 25.03.14 23:06

@ultimaThule wrote:Dr Amaral has been noticeably outspoken of late, Chatelaine, while the family source seems to be strangely reticent about recent events.  smilie
***
Allow me a  laughat 

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: SY and PJ fall out - Sunday Express

Post by Guest on 25.03.14 23:22

No admonishment taken whatsoever, ultima, and thank you for your thoughts.

I am fascinated, nay, tentatively optomistic at the prolonged suspension of the trial and am starting to believe the dawn lies behind the silence. Something has surely happened, and, together with the other recent clues we are seeing I am hoping that the PJ's investigation has breached a dam that all 40 McCann digits cannot stop, plugged as they are in all directions to stem the leaks.

Dr Amaral's recent words of course, imo, are worth a whole McCann left foot crammed in a hole. Twister isn't the game...

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: SY and PJ fall out - Sunday Express

Post by lj on 26.03.14 1:48

@Bishop Brennan wrote:SY do seem to be furious that the PJ won't tell them what they are up to.  Wheeling out BHH to talk about 'closing in' but stuck behind the process.  Then Andy smirking on CW as he revealed some PJ info. Follow that up with Martin Hewett moaning about 'the process' and finally DC himself offering to muscle in.  All in the space of a few weeks. All played to a willing media.  

But the PJ are not reacting. They told SY to shut their traps and get on with the job which worked for a week or two, but then up popped Andy for another go. Are they panicking? Why?  In case the PJ make then look stupid? I'm not sure they need any help with that if recent cases and headlines are anything to go by.


Indeed, without any help from outside they are very capable to look as stupid as they come.

I think this are the first notes of the "it's all Portugal's fault" aria.

We worked hard, look at all the paper we collected. Bernie even had names of suspects, although it's not clear he even knows what crime he is talking about since he had not heard of operation Grange. I think this is all the setup for the finale: Not enough evidence to arrest anyone.

And that's a whitewash.

____________________
"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?"  Gerry

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

lj

Posts : 3276
Reputation : 148
Join date : 2009-12-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: SY and PJ fall out - Sunday Express

Post by aiyoyo on 26.03.14 7:03

@lj wrote:
@Bishop Brennan wrote:SY do seem to be furious that the PJ won't tell them what they are up to.  Wheeling out BHH to talk about 'closing in' but stuck behind the process.  Then Andy smirking on CW as he revealed some PJ info. Follow that up with Martin Hewett moaning about 'the process' and finally DC himself offering to muscle in.  All in the space of a few weeks. All played to a willing media.  

But the PJ are not reacting. They told SY to shut their traps and get on with the job which worked for a week or two, but then up popped Andy for another go. Are they panicking? Why?  In case the PJ make then look stupid? I'm not sure they need any help with that if recent cases and headlines are anything to go by.


Indeed, without any help from outside they are very capable to look as stupid as they come.

I think this are the first notes of the "it's all Portugal's fault" aria.

We worked hard, look at all the paper we collected. Bernie even had names of suspects, although it's not clear he even knows what crime he is talking about since he had not heard of operation Grange. I think this is all the setup for the finale: Not enough evidence to arrest anyone.

And that's a whitewash.

How does exoneration apply if SY whitewashed it ?
Portugal has primacy over the case and so long as no Court of law has deliberated on it to ascertain it either way how can SY whitewash be validated by law?
More importantly why should Portugal Judiciary be expected to recognise a foreign Police Force's decision ?


aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 318
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: SY and PJ fall out - Sunday Express

Post by Mirage on 26.03.14 9:19

@aiyoyo wrote:
@lj wrote:
@Bishop Brennan wrote:SY do seem to be furious that the PJ won't tell them what they are up to.  Wheeling out BHH to talk about 'closing in' but stuck behind the process.  Then Andy smirking on CW as he revealed some PJ info. Follow that up with Martin Hewett moaning about 'the process' and finally DC himself offering to muscle in.  All in the space of a few weeks. All played to a willing media.  

But the PJ are not reacting. They told SY to shut their traps and get on with the job which worked for a week or two, but then up popped Andy for another go. Are they panicking? Why?  In case the PJ make then look stupid? I'm not sure they need any help with that if recent cases and headlines are anything to go by.


Indeed, without any help from outside they are very capable to look as stupid as they come.

I think this are the first notes of the "it's all Portugal's fault" aria.

We worked hard, look at all the paper we collected. Bernie even had names of suspects, although it's not clear he even knows what crime he is talking about since he had not heard of operation Grange. I think this is all the setup for the finale: Not enough evidence to arrest anyone.

And that's a whitewash.

How does exoneration apply if SY whitewashed it ?  
Portugal has primacy over the case and so long as no Court of law has deliberated on it to ascertain it either way how can SY whitewash be validated by law?
More importantly why should Portugal Judiciary be expected to recognise a foreign Police Force's decision ?  

Cue the return of Pinochet's extradition lawyer? The one who turned up on the doorstep of Rothley on Sunday 9th September 2007 the same day Gerry and Kate fled Portugal. Nice of such an important man to travel up from London on his weekend.

The foreign office seemed to be pulling out stops too, according to this Telegraph article, dated 9th September 2007. Based on its solid show of political intransigence, thinly disguised as humanitarian concern, I think it likely we must brace ourselves for another unedifying display of Pomp and Circumstance and hearty rounds of 'Rule Britannia'

For the signs are we could be in for part 2 of the saga - The Fight against Extradition. Appeals to the Court of Human Rights and much, much more.

Will Miliband senior return from his self-imposed American exile to lend moral support. Or will he say - it's your call Ed? Will there be more phone calls from Cherie? A Hearts and Minds campaign fronted by that well known humanitarian Gordon Brown? Will CEOP open its files on scoping exercises? Will it open any files? Will Gerry widen his agenda?  Will Kate and Gerry try for another baby and get a standing ovulation at the annual conference of police officers for never giving it a rest. Will Cameron and his party go green and wear a special commemorative wristband issued by FM on the 10th anniversary of their flight from Portugal? Will Kate and Gerry finally get Elton John and his son to put on an appeal concert at Carnegie Hall in 2027? Will HH promise to find the key to one more locked warehouse and make a national pledge not to shred what lies within? Stay tooned.

Always instructive to look back at these old articles. This one is littered with the genesis of xenophobic attacks on the Portuguese investigators, the back-pedalling of the forensic evidence (by 'a leading forensic scientist' who wishes to remain anonymous - there's a surprise) and EVRD findings dismissed by John Barrett, a former police dog handler who can't resist putting in his ill-informed tuppence worth.

The article is delightfully shot through with unhelpful observations from Philomena and 'friends', depicting a situation of raw panic and ill-disguised plans to get out of Portugal pdq.

It will go down as a classic.
---------------
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1562575/Madeleine-McCanns-parents-flying-back-to-UK.html

Madeleine McCann's parents flying back to UK
Portuguese police believe Mrs McCann killed Madeleine and Mr McCann helped cover up her crime
By David Harrison and Caroline Gammell in Praia da Luz and Andrew Alderson12:01AM BST 09 Sep 2007

The parents of missing Madeleine McCann will return to Britain from Portugal on Sunday.
Kate and Gerry McCann fear they could be charged over their daughter's death after they were named as "arguidos", or official suspects in her disappearance.
They wanted to fly back to the UK as soon as possible, but were worried that it might appear they are "running scared", according to Mr McCann's sister Philomena.
No conditions were imposed on the McCanns, which means they are free to travel abroad, their lawyer said. "They can travel whenever and wherever they like," lawyer Carlos Pinto de Abreu told Reuters, adding that the McCanns could remain at their home in England as the police investigation continues.The McCanns plan to approach David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, asking him to intervene in the case of their missing daughter Madeleine amid growing fears that they might become the victims of a "shocking injustice".
The couple are "angry and horrified" that the search for the missing four-year-old has been halted as, they believe, police seek to blame them for killing her and disposing of her body.
Some forensic scientists have begun to question some of the evidence against the couple - supposedly samples of Madeline's blood found in the boot of the car they hired 25 days after the disappearance, and the "death smell" allegedly found on Mrs McCann's belongings by a police sniffer dog.
There is suspicion that tiny DNA samples obtained from the McCanns' apartment - and compared with the blood found in the car boot - could have been contaminated.
One of Britain's leading forensic scientists, who asked not be named, said: "If they are spots of blood, it could not be from a car used by the McCanns 25 days later. That doesn't make sense.
"The blood would have dried and it would not transfer as spots unless the child is alive. It would be fragments [of dried blood].
"But that is not what the police are saying they have. This is the prevailing view among other forensic scientists I have spoken to."
John Barrett, a former Scotland Yard dog handler, also indicated that the trained dogs used in an attempt to detect a "death smell" on Mrs McCann's Bible and clothes were brought in too long after Madeleine vanished.
The crucial scent lasts for no longer than a month, he said.
The McCanns are expected to appear before the public prosecutor in Portimao, Portugal, this week. They could face restrictions on their movements and, possibly, charges.
The McCanns, both 39-year-old doctors, are said to be "deeply alarmed" by the turn of events after they were interrogated separately by Portuguese police for a total of 24 hours on Thursday and Friday.
They are furious at the manner of the questioning and may decide to stay in Portugal to clear their names and revive the search for their girl, who vanished four months ago while her parents were at a nearby tapas bar in the resort of Praia da Luz.
Portuguese sources said police were using a "war of nerves" in an effort to make Mrs McCann "crack" and confess to killing her daughter.
Her two interrogations last week - the second lasting 11 hours - were described as "aggressive", with officers said to be "exploring her weaknesses".
Media reports said the couple used their right to remain silent and refused to answer "more than 40 questions". Friends insisted they answered all questions put to them.
The couple, who spoke with Mr Miliband last month, will urge him this week to step in "with any help he can," said a friend of the couple.
"There is a danger of a shocking injustice here," the friend said. "Kate and Gerry are appalled that anybody could think Kate would harm any of her children."
Mrs McCann's mother, Susan Healy, defended her, saying: "She fought her corner in her interview with the police and I felt quite proud that she was able to do that knowing how distraught she was by Madeleine's disappearance."
Philomena McCann, Mr McCann's sister, said of her brother: "He is a bit distressed and very tired. But he is adamant that he has done nothing wrong."
She said the couple were worried it would appear as if they were "running scared" if they returned to Britain.
Plans to return to their home in Rothley, Leicestershire, today have now been shelved.
Portuguese police believe that Mrs McCann killed Madeleine accidentally with a sedative overdose, and then hid the body. They think Mr McCann helped cover up her crime.
The McCanns insist they have never used sedatives on their children and deny any involvement in Madeleine's death. They believe that she was abducted and is still alive.
Police have indicated their case is based on DNA evidence, analysed by British forensic scientists.
It is said to be blood from Madeleine found in the hired car. Investigators say further analysis is needed before any "definitive" conclusions.
The couple spent yesterday at a rented villa in Praia da Luz with their two-year-old twins, Amelie and Sean.
The Foreign Office was last night described as "firing on all cylinders" in its efforts to help the McCanns.
Asked about the case yesterday, Mr Miliband said: "A little girl is missing. This is an independent judicial process we fully respect. Consular services are being provided. Above all, this is about a little girl."The McCanns plan to approach David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, asking him to intervene in the case of their missing daughter Madeleine amid growing fears that they might become the victims of a "shocking injustice".
The couple are "angry and horrified" that the search for the missing four-year-old has been halted as, they believe, police seek to blame them for killing her and disposing of her body.
Some forensic scientists have begun to question some of the evidence against the couple - supposedly samples of Madeline's blood found in the boot of the car they hired 25 days after the disappearance, and the "death smell" allegedly found on Mrs McCann's belongings by a police sniffer dog.
There is suspicion that tiny DNA samples obtained from the McCanns' apartment - and compared with the blood found in the car boot - could have been contaminated.
One of Britain's leading forensic scientists, who asked not be named, said: "If they are spots of blood, it could not be from a car used by the McCanns 25 days later. That doesn't make sense.
"The blood would have dried and it would not transfer as spots unless the child is alive. It would be fragments [of dried blood].
"But that is not what the police are saying they have. This is the prevailing view among other forensic scientists I have spoken to."
John Barrett, a former Scotland Yard dog handler, also indicated that the trained dogs used in an attempt to detect a "death smell" on Mrs McCann's Bible and clothes were brought in too long after Madeleine vanished.
The crucial scent lasts for no longer than a month, he said.
The McCanns are expected to appear before the public prosecutor in Portimao, Portugal, this week. They could face restrictions on their movements and, possibly, charges.
The McCanns, both 39-year-old doctors, are said to be "deeply alarmed" by the turn of events after they were interrogated separately by Portuguese police for a total of 24 hours on Thursday and Friday.
They are furious at the manner of the questioning and may decide to stay in Portugal to clear their names and revive the search for their girl, who vanished four months ago while her parents were at a nearby tapas bar in the resort of Praia da Luz.
Portuguese sources said police were using a "war of nerves" in an effort to make Mrs McCann "crack" and confess to killing her daughter.
Her two interrogations last week - the second lasting 11 hours - were described as "aggressive", with officers said to be "exploring her weaknesses".
Media reports said the couple used their right to remain silent and refused to answer "more than 40 questions". Friends insisted they answered all questions put to them.
The couple, who spoke with Mr Miliband last month, will urge him this week to step in "with any help he can," said a friend of the couple.
"There is a danger of a shocking injustice here," the friend said. "Kate and Gerry are appalled that anybody could think Kate would harm any of her children."
Mrs McCann's mother, Susan Healy, defended her, saying: "She fought her corner in her interview with the police and I felt quite proud that she was able to do that knowing how distraught she was by Madeleine's disappearance."
Philomena McCann, Mr McCann's sister, said of her brother: "He is a bit distressed and very tired. But he is adamant that he has done nothing wrong."
She said the couple were worried it would appear as if they were "running scared" if they returned to Britain.
Plans to return to their home in Rothley, Leicestershire, today have now been shelved.
Portuguese police believe that Mrs McCann killed Madeleine accidentally with a sedative overdose, and then hid the body. They think Mr McCann helped cover up her crime.
The McCanns insist they have never used sedatives on their children and deny any involvement in Madeleine's death. They believe that she was abducted and is still alive.
Police have indicated their case is based on DNA evidence, analysed by British forensic scientists.
It is said to be blood from Madeleine found in the hired car. Investigators say further analysis is needed before any "definitive" conclusions.
The couple spent yesterday at a rented villa in Praia da Luz with their two-year-old twins, Amelie and Sean.
The Foreign Office was last night described as "firing on all cylinders" in its efforts to help the McCanns.
Asked about the case yesterday, Mr Miliband said: "A little girl is missing. This is an independent judicial process we fully respect. Consular services are being provided. Above all, this is about a little girl."

____________________
Kate McCann: "It's too 'ot. Give 'im a minute."

Mirage

Posts : 1665
Reputation : 382
Join date : 2013-02-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: SY and PJ fall out - Sunday Express

Post by rainbow-fairy on 26.03.14 13:03

@Mirage wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
@lj wrote:
@Bishop Brennan wrote:SY do seem to be furious that the PJ won't tell them what they are up to.  Wheeling out BHH to talk about 'closing in' but stuck behind the process.  Then Andy smirking on CW as he revealed some PJ info. Follow that up with Martin Hewett moaning about 'the process' and finally DC himself offering to muscle in.  All in the space of a few weeks. All played to a willing media.  

But the PJ are not reacting. They told SY to shut their traps and get on with the job which worked for a week or two, but then up popped Andy for another go. Are they panicking? Why?  In case the PJ make then look stupid? I'm not sure they need any help with that if recent cases and headlines are anything to go by.


Indeed, without any help from outside they are very capable to look as stupid as they come.

I think this are the first notes of the "it's all Portugal's fault" aria.

We worked hard, look at all the paper we collected. Bernie even had names of suspects, although it's not clear he even knows what crime he is talking about since he had not heard of operation Grange. I think this is all the setup for the finale: Not enough evidence to arrest anyone.

And that's a whitewash.

How does exoneration apply if SY whitewashed it ?  
Portugal has primacy over the case and so long as no Court of law has deliberated on it to ascertain it either way how can SY whitewash be validated by law?
More importantly why should Portugal Judiciary be expected to recognise a foreign Police Force's decision ?  

Cue the return of Pinochet's extradition lawyer? The one who turned up on the doorstep of Rothley on Sunday 9th September 2007 the same day Gerry and Kate fled Portugal. Nice of such an important man to travel up from London on his weekend.

The foreign office seemed to be pulling out stops too, according to this Telegraph article, dated 9th September 2007. Based on its solid show of political intransigence, thinly disguised as humanitarian concern, I think it likely we must brace ourselves for another unedifying display of Pomp and Circumstance and hearty rounds of 'Rule Britannia'

For the signs are we could be in for part 2 of the saga - The Fight against Extradition. Appeals to the Court of Human Rights and much, much more.

Will Miliband senior return from his self-imposed American exile to lend moral support. Or will he say - it's your call Ed? Will there be more phone calls from Cherie? A Hearts and Minds campaign fronted by that well known humanitarian Gordon Brown? Will CEOP open its files on scoping exercises? Will it open any files? Will Gerry widen his agenda?  Will Kate and Gerry try for another baby and get a standing ovulation at the annual conference of police officers for never giving it a rest. Will Cameron and his party go green and wear a special commemorative wristband issued by FM on the 10th anniversary of their flight from Portugal? Will Kate and Gerry finally get Elton John and his son to put on an appeal concert at Carnegie Hall in 2027? Will HH promise to find the key to one more locked warehouse and make a national pledge not to shred what lies within? Stay tooned.

Always instructive to look back at these old articles. This one is littered with the genesis of xenophobic attacks on the Portuguese investigators, the back-pedalling of the forensic evidence (by 'a leading forensic scientist' who wishes to remain anonymous - there's a surprise) and EVRD findings dismissed by John Barrett, a former police dog handler who can't resist putting in his ill-informed tuppence worth.

The article is delightfully shot through with unhelpful observations from Philomena and 'friends', depicting a situation of raw panic and ill-disguised plans to get out of Portugal pdq.

It will go down as a classic.
---------------
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1562575/Madeleine-McCanns-parents-flying-back-to-UK.html

Madeleine McCann's parents flying back to UK
Portuguese police believe Mrs McCann killed Madeleine and Mr McCann helped cover up her crime
By David Harrison and Caroline Gammell in Praia da Luz and Andrew Alderson12:01AM BST 09 Sep 2007

The parents of missing Madeleine McCann will return to Britain from Portugal on Sunday.
Kate and Gerry McCann fear they could be charged over their daughter's death after they were named as "arguidos", or official suspects in her disappearance.
They wanted to fly back to the UK as soon as possible, but were worried that it might appear they are "running scared", according to Mr McCann's sister Philomena.
No conditions were imposed on the McCanns, which means they are free to travel abroad, their lawyer said. "They can travel whenever and wherever they like," lawyer Carlos Pinto de Abreu told Reuters, adding that the McCanns could remain at their home in England as the police investigation continues.The McCanns plan to approach David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, asking him to intervene in the case of their missing daughter Madeleine amid growing fears that they might become the victims of a "shocking injustice".
The couple are "angry and horrified" that the search for the missing four-year-old has been halted as, they believe, police seek to blame them for killing her and disposing of her body.
Some forensic scientists have begun to question some of the evidence against the couple - supposedly samples of Madeline's blood found in the boot of the car they hired 25 days after the disappearance, and the "death smell" allegedly found on Mrs McCann's belongings by a police sniffer dog.
There is suspicion that tiny DNA samples obtained from the McCanns' apartment - and compared with the blood found in the car boot - could have been contaminated.
One of Britain's leading forensic scientists, who asked not be named, said: "If they are spots of blood, it could not be from a car used by the McCanns 25 days later. That doesn't make sense.
"The blood would have dried and it would not transfer as spots unless the child is alive. It would be fragments [of dried blood].
"But that is not what the police are saying they have. This is the prevailing view among other forensic scientists I have spoken to."
John Barrett, a former Scotland Yard dog handler, also indicated that the trained dogs used in an attempt to detect a "death smell" on Mrs McCann's Bible and clothes were brought in too long after Madeleine vanished.
The crucial scent lasts for no longer than a month, he said.
The McCanns are expected to appear before the public prosecutor in Portimao, Portugal, this week. They could face restrictions on their movements and, possibly, charges.
The McCanns, both 39-year-old doctors, are said to be "deeply alarmed" by the turn of events after they were interrogated separately by Portuguese police for a total of 24 hours on Thursday and Friday.
They are furious at the manner of the questioning and may decide to stay in Portugal to clear their names and revive the search for their girl, who vanished four months ago while her parents were at a nearby tapas bar in the resort of Praia da Luz.
Portuguese sources said police were using a "war of nerves" in an effort to make Mrs McCann "crack" and confess to killing her daughter.
Her two interrogations last week - the second lasting 11 hours - were described as "aggressive", with officers said to be "exploring her weaknesses".
Media reports said the couple used their right to remain silent and refused to answer "more than 40 questions". Friends insisted they answered all questions put to them.
The couple, who spoke with Mr Miliband last month, will urge him this week to step in "with any help he can," said a friend of the couple.
"There is a danger of a shocking injustice here," the friend said. "Kate and Gerry are appalled that anybody could think Kate would harm any of her children."
Mrs McCann's mother, Susan Healy, defended her, saying: "She fought her corner in her interview with the police and I felt quite proud that she was able to do that knowing how distraught she was by Madeleine's disappearance."
Philomena McCann, Mr McCann's sister, said of her brother: "He is a bit distressed and very tired. But he is adamant that he has done nothing wrong."
She said the couple were worried it would appear as if they were "running scared" if they returned to Britain.
Plans to return to their home in Rothley, Leicestershire, today have now been shelved.
Portuguese police believe that Mrs McCann killed Madeleine accidentally with a sedative overdose, and then hid the body. They think Mr McCann helped cover up her crime.
The McCanns insist they have never used sedatives on their children and deny any involvement in Madeleine's death. They believe that she was abducted and is still alive.
Police have indicated their case is based on DNA evidence, analysed by British forensic scientists.
It is said to be blood from Madeleine found in the hired car. Investigators say further analysis is needed before any "definitive" conclusions.
The couple spent yesterday at a rented villa in Praia da Luz with their two-year-old twins, Amelie and Sean.
The Foreign Office was last night described as "firing on all cylinders" in its efforts to help the McCanns.
Asked about the case yesterday, Mr Miliband said: "A little girl is missing. This is an independent judicial process we fully respect. Consular services are being provided. Above all, this is about a little girl."The McCanns plan to approach David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, asking him to intervene in the case of their missing daughter Madeleine amid growing fears that they might become the victims of a "shocking injustice".
The couple are "angry and horrified" that the search for the missing four-year-old has been halted as, they believe, police seek to blame them for killing her and disposing of her body.
Some forensic scientists have begun to question some of the evidence against the couple - supposedly samples of Madeline's blood found in the boot of the car they hired 25 days after the disappearance, and the "death smell" allegedly found on Mrs McCann's belongings by a police sniffer dog.
There is suspicion that tiny DNA samples obtained from the McCanns' apartment - and compared with the blood found in the car boot - could have been contaminated.
One of Britain's leading forensic scientists, who asked not be named, said: "If they are spots of blood, it could not be from a car used by the McCanns 25 days later. That doesn't make sense.
"The blood would have dried and it would not transfer as spots unless the child is alive. It would be fragments [of dried blood].
"But that is not what the police are saying they have. This is the prevailing view among other forensic scientists I have spoken to."
John Barrett, a former Scotland Yard dog handler, also indicated that the trained dogs used in an attempt to detect a "death smell" on Mrs McCann's Bible and clothes were brought in too long after Madeleine vanished.
The crucial scent lasts for no longer than a month, he said.
The McCanns are expected to appear before the public prosecutor in Portimao, Portugal, this week. They could face restrictions on their movements and, possibly, charges.
The McCanns, both 39-year-old doctors, are said to be "deeply alarmed" by the turn of events after they were interrogated separately by Portuguese police for a total of 24 hours on Thursday and Friday.
They are furious at the manner of the questioning and may decide to stay in Portugal to clear their names and revive the search for their girl, who vanished four months ago while her parents were at a nearby tapas bar in the resort of Praia da Luz.
Portuguese sources said police were using a "war of nerves" in an effort to make Mrs McCann "crack" and confess to killing her daughter.
Her two interrogations last week - the second lasting 11 hours - were described as "aggressive", with officers said to be "exploring her weaknesses".
Media reports said the couple used their right to remain silent and refused to answer "more than 40 questions". Friends insisted they answered all questions put to them.
The couple, who spoke with Mr Miliband last month, will urge him this week to step in "with any help he can," said a friend of the couple.
"There is a danger of a shocking injustice here," the friend said. "Kate and Gerry are appalled that anybody could think Kate would harm any of her children."
Mrs McCann's mother, Susan Healy, defended her, saying: "She fought her corner in her interview with the police and I felt quite proud that she was able to do that knowing how distraught she was by Madeleine's disappearance."
Philomena McCann, Mr McCann's sister, said of her brother: "He is a bit distressed and very tired. But he is adamant that he has done nothing wrong."
She said the couple were worried it would appear as if they were "running scared" if they returned to Britain.
Plans to return to their home in Rothley, Leicestershire, today have now been shelved.
Portuguese police believe that Mrs McCann killed Madeleine accidentally with a sedative overdose, and then hid the body. They think Mr McCann helped cover up her crime.
The McCanns insist they have never used sedatives on their children and deny any involvement in Madeleine's death. They believe that she was abducted and is still alive.
Police have indicated their case is based on DNA evidence, analysed by British forensic scientists.
It is said to be blood from Madeleine found in the hired car. Investigators say further analysis is needed before any "definitive" conclusions.
The couple spent yesterday at a rented villa in Praia da Luz with their two-year-old twins, Amelie and Sean.
The Foreign Office was last night described as "firing on all cylinders" in its efforts to help the McCanns.
Asked about the case yesterday, Mr Miliband said: "A little girl is missing. This is an independent judicial process we fully respect. Consular services are being provided. Above all, this is about a little girl."
Seriously a former SY dog handler said cadaver odour only lasts a month? nah How then were the dogs correct in the Prout case? Or the Zapata case? From all the studies I have read it lasts a very long long time?
Nice quote from Gerry in there, the infamous 'nothing to implicate us in her DEATH' though...

ETA: sorry I have no idea how to snip the quote box down nowadays

____________________
"Ask the dogs, Sandra" - Gerry McCann to Sandra Felgueiras



Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

NORMAN MACDONALD, Maxims and Moral Reflections.

rainbow-fairy

Posts : 1971
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2011-05-26
Age : 42
Location : going round in circles

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: SY and PJ fall out - Sunday Express

Post by Guest on 26.03.14 13:22

To make it even more interesting: there's a test, where they'd taken sand in which a 2,000 year-old mummy was kept, put it on a sand beach AND Eddy found it ... There's quite a difference between a month and 2,000 years, I'd say  winkwink 

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: SY and PJ fall out - Sunday Express

Post by Guest on 26.03.14 13:32

Châtelaine wrote:To make it even more interesting: there's a test, where they'd taken sand in which a 2,000 year-old mummy was kept, put it on a sand beach AND Eddy found it ... There's quite a difference between a month and 2,000 years, I'd say  winkwink 

Makes you wonder what would happen if another team of cadaver dogs were let loose that same apartment. (With the same T shirt, toy etc). If they alerted in the same places it would certainly be food for thought.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: SY and PJ fall out - Sunday Express

Post by rainbow-fairy on 26.03.14 13:37

Châtelaine wrote:To make it even more interesting: there's a test, where they'd taken sand in which a 2,000 year-old mummy was kept, put it on a sand beach AND Eddy found it ... There's quite a difference between a month and 2,000 years, I'd say  winkwink 
Absolutely right Châtelaine  thumbup

____________________
"Ask the dogs, Sandra" - Gerry McCann to Sandra Felgueiras



Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

NORMAN MACDONALD, Maxims and Moral Reflections.

rainbow-fairy

Posts : 1971
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2011-05-26
Age : 42
Location : going round in circles

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: SY and PJ fall out - Sunday Express

Post by Bishop Brennan on 26.03.14 14:25

Certainly if you were highlighting the major differences between the UK team and the PJ team, then we would have:

1. The dogs - pointing to death before 9:10pm
2. The importance of DP's visit at 6:30
3. The relevance of the gaspar statements

All of these have been erased from the UK media, SY reports, CW.   All 3 figure regularly in Portuguese documentaries and press. And from Amaral of course.  

Different lines of enquiry?  No doubt about it....

Bishop Brennan

Posts : 695
Reputation : 217
Join date : 2013-10-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: SY and PJ fall out - Sunday Express

Post by lj on 26.03.14 19:06

@aiyoyo wrote:
@lj wrote:
@Bishop Brennan wrote:SY do seem to be furious that the PJ won't tell them what they are up to.  Wheeling out BHH to talk about 'closing in' but stuck behind the process.  Then Andy smirking on CW as he revealed some PJ info. Follow that up with Martin Hewett moaning about 'the process' and finally DC himself offering to muscle in.  All in the space of a few weeks. All played to a willing media.  

But the PJ are not reacting. They told SY to shut their traps and get on with the job which worked for a week or two, but then up popped Andy for another go. Are they panicking? Why?  In case the PJ make then look stupid? I'm not sure they need any help with that if recent cases and headlines are anything to go by.


Indeed, without any help from outside they are very capable to look as stupid as they come.

I think this are the first notes of the "it's all Portugal's fault" aria.

We worked hard, look at all the paper we collected. Bernie even had names of suspects, although it's not clear he even knows what crime he is talking about since he had not heard of operation Grange. I think this is all the setup for the finale: Not enough evidence to arrest anyone.

And that's a whitewash.

How does exoneration apply if SY whitewashed it ?  
Portugal has primacy over the case and so long as no Court of law has deliberated on it to ascertain it either way how can SY whitewash be validated by law?
More importantly why should Portugal Judiciary be expected to recognise a foreign Police Force's decision ?  


I don't mean by law aiyoyo. Look what TM and all their followers did with the end report by Portugal's Prosecutor José de Magalhaes e Menezes and Joint General Prosecutor - Joao Melchior Gomes. They claim it exonerated them, while clearly is stated that the McCanns missed their opportunity to do that.

I believe that all SY has to do is throw up a lot of dust (what they have been doing the last year+) and then say "we cannot proof anything -of course blaming Portugal for that. That will make the pathetic parents crow "you see 2 countries' investigations, 7 million alone for the SY, and they still can find anything against us. We now are exonerated by 2 countries.

SY doses not have to find a patsy, nothing is good enough to get them of the hook.

____________________
"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?"  Gerry

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

lj

Posts : 3276
Reputation : 148
Join date : 2009-12-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: SY and PJ fall out - Sunday Express

Post by Casey5 on 26.03.14 20:44

@rainbow-fairy wrote:
ETA: sorry I have no idea how to snip the quote box down nowadays
Left click on the mouse at the start of the piece you want to delete, hold the mouse down until it highlights the whole piece you want to remove and then press delete.

Casey5

Posts : 321
Reputation : 18
Join date : 2013-02-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: SY and PJ fall out - Sunday Express

Post by XTC on 26.03.14 23:17

@lj wrote:
@Bishop Brennan wrote:SY do seem to be furious that the PJ won't tell them what they are up to.  Wheeling out BHH to talk about 'closing in' but stuck behind the process.  Then Andy smirking on CW as he revealed some PJ info. Follow that up with Martin Hewett moaning about 'the process' and finally DC himself offering to muscle in.  All in the space of a few weeks. All played to a willing media.  

But the PJ are not reacting. They told SY to shut their traps and get on with the job which worked for a week or two, but then up popped Andy for another go. Are they panicking? Why?  In case the PJ make then look stupid? I'm not sure they need any help with that if recent cases and headlines are anything to go by.


Indeed, without any help from outside they are very capable to look as stupid as they come.

I think this are the first notes of the "it's all Portugal's fault" aria.

We worked hard, look at all the paper we collected. Bernie even had names of suspects, although it's not clear he even knows what crime he is talking about since he had not heard of operation Grange. I think this is all the setup for the finale: Not enough evidence to arrest anyone.

And that's a whitewash.
I suspect that BHH has many other things on his mind at the moment; i.e how to explain away the shredding of a lorry load ( not a filing cabinet load) of documents relating to the Stephen Lawrence case on one hand and wondering what might be on the hard - drives of seized computers. A bit like Rebecca Brooks and co currently.

In my opinion Judicial Secrecy is working a treat and all the media stories are a reflection of its success. The first time round some policemen surrounding the case were leaking like sieves ( for money ) and revealing some true (and some not true) tales for red tops.
As a result of Levenson inquiry one of the red tops disappeared and the culprits are sat in the dock discussing with the learned Judge
the black arts of seeedy journalism. The main thing in all of this from this case to Milly Dowler, is that the policemen/women who supply
most of this information ( and probably still do) have so far not been scrutinised properly by any authority. The shock headline that PI's tap phones
shouldn't be a revelation to anyone but the fact that police officers tip off journalists etc should be. This particular state of affairs seemed to pass Lord Levenson by. Perhaps the Stephen Lawrence inquiry might highlight what has been going on for years? We shall see. Perhaps the Portuguese Authorities should do the same? Has any Portuguese high up copper ever had an offer of a free holiday from anyone involved in this case I wonder? I suppose promotion is a much better carrot though as it increases your salary. It's longer lasting and if
you keeep your mouth shut as part of the game then a lovely pension follows whether you are Portuguese or British the game and its rules are the same the world over.

XTC

Posts : 210
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2014-03-23

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: SY and PJ fall out - Sunday Express

Post by rainbow-fairy on 27.03.14 1:22

@Casey5 wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:
ETA: sorry I have no idea how to snip the quote box down nowadays
Left click on the mouse at the start of the piece you want to delete, hold the mouse down until it highlights the whole piece you want to remove and then press delete.
Thank you Casey5  high5 
I'm on a phone so may have to have a play but I'll remember that for when I'm on a computer. Can codes still be manually typed do you know?

____________________
"Ask the dogs, Sandra" - Gerry McCann to Sandra Felgueiras



Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

NORMAN MACDONALD, Maxims and Moral Reflections.

rainbow-fairy

Posts : 1971
Reputation : 11
Join date : 2011-05-26
Age : 42
Location : going round in circles

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum