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CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March

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Re: CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March

Post by donkeydoodah on 23.03.14 9:03

@canada12 wrote:Remember, if people were searching for Madeleine that night, they'd be searching for a live child, not for a carry-bag possibly buried under a layer of refuse in a bin.
She's more likely to have been in a bin than a freezer, but I suppose it's possible she was in both

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Re: CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March

Post by russiandoll on 23.03.14 9:19

A belated apology for the size of that photo and the space it takes up. It was small on twitter and all I can do is a straightforward c and p job.

 Btw I am frustrated because I posted the same photo somewhere months ago with a comment about their facial expressions, at a time when we were alerted to the posting of the video on youtube. It was only there for a short time iirc because once when I went to have another look at it , the link was there but nothing to be seen.

You could hear the English voiceover of what Andy R was saying, I am sure there must be a transcript somewhere of this German interview? The Mcs faces were a REVELATION .

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unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March

Post by plebgate on 23.03.14 10:34

Her eyebrows do look rather arched in that photo and I don't think it was because of the use of botox.   titter

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Re: CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March

Post by ProfessorPPlum on 23.03.14 10:35

Damn it's so hard to respond on iPhone - I want to 'like' so many posts (can't cos its not Facebook) or reply but I'm always too late, particularly when things go into overdrive like today. Just want to say 'Good work' to everyone, this is good work as ever. The discussion (whatever it's faults Blacksmith) continues to give me hope when I feel like I'm teetering on the brink of insanity and overwhelming despair. The significance of what we're going through in this 'case' is just massive ..so big that I can't even start to articulate it.

That picture of Mr & Mrs looking at AR is indeed a revelation. F---- T---- indeed. I'm sitting here with fingers crossed that we will soon emerge from this nightmarish fog and some semblance of justice for a tiny little girl - who the language of all but the McC's is now telling us what we've known from the start: that she is dead.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March

Post by Guest on 23.03.14 10:36

@russiandoll wrote:A belated apology for the size of that photo and the space it takes up. It was small on twitter and all I can do is a straightforward c and p job.

 Btw I am frustrated because I posted the same photo somewhere months ago with a comment about their facial expressions, at a time when we were alerted to the posting of the video on youtube. It was only there for a short time iirc because once when I went to have another look at it , the link was there but nothing to be seen.

You could hear the English voiceover of what Andy R was saying, I am sure there must be a transcript somewhere of this German interview? The Mcs faces were a REVELATION .

This is the nearest thing I can find and I know it doesn't exactly match the video you describe, rd. You can just about hear the English interview but there is quite a loud German translation. I think the interview with the Macs starts at about 23.00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feJKnsIObck

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Re: CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March

Post by Monty Heck on 23.03.14 11:35

@canada12 wrote:I wonder if inquiries were made about when / what time / what day the bins were emptied in PDL?

Perhaps SY / PJ have been asking around, hoping to find out if anyone remembers any of the Tapas group inquiring about the above.

I don't think anyone would have put Madeleine's body in a bin if there had been any remote chance of the bin being emptied and the body being carted away to the town dump. IMO Madeleine's body needed to disappear, but not that way.

If we consider the possibility that Madeleine's body was put into the blue bag, and then placed in a bin, then whoever did the placing would have to be 100% certain that the bin wasn't going to be emptied before they had a chance to move her body again. They would have had to have asked someone what the schedule for bin emptying was.

Remember, if people were searching for Madeleine that night, they'd be searching for a live child, not for a carry-bag possibly buried under a layer of refuse in a bin.

Bins in PDL are emptied daily (due to climate) in early morning, usually around 5-6am.  There are no individual household bins, instead large communal bins like these  are dotted around the village.  There was a lot of speculation among locals in the immediate aftermath about the "abductor" having used these to dispose of the child that same night - apparently the bins were still emptied the morning of 4 May as usual as the searches were still for a live child, who had probably wandered off.  Interesting that the McCs, according to KMcC, tentatively checked out one (?) bin only during the early hours of 4/5.  If the thought had occurred that M may have been placed there, then why not immediately round up as many friends/OC staff as possible for a swift check aound the village refuse sites?  It's not a large area so there are 10s of sites, rather than hundreds.  Also interesting that KMcC didn't mention whether the bin was empty or not.  It just seems strange that the thought seems to have simply evaporated after one bin had been checked when a systematic search could have been organised without too much difficulty.  No stone left unturned, as they said.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March

Post by donkeydoodah on 23.03.14 11:44

A lot of things involving bins can happen between dusk and dawn, especially if the collection isn't until 5am, like putting things in and taking them out again - ie a hiding place rather than a route to the dump

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Re: CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March

Post by Monty Heck on 23.03.14 12:17

@donkeydoodah wrote:A lot of things involving bins can happen between dusk and dawn, especially if the collection isn't until 5am, like putting things in and taking them out again - ie a hiding place rather than a route to the dump
Exactly, which is why the McCs not demanding search parties to check the refuse bins or an immediate search of the area of the landfill used that day/week is so strange.  They haven't claimed it simply hadn't occurred to anyone and indeed the book confirms that the ideas of disposal in the refuse had indeed occurred that very first night.  So why the demands for helicopters, dogs, the Royal Navy (indeed) but not a systematic search of potential disposal sites?  One possible explanation is that would not have fitted with the insistence that everyone had to keep looking for a live child, which continues until the present day.  Which brings us back full circle, to consider why this insistence when clearly on that very first night they had opened a bin to check, for what?  A child "cowering" in there?

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Re: CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March

Post by russiandoll on 23.03.14 16:09

Thanks so much, Millie, I am sure that is the one I was searching for, why I have not come across it I don't know. I know the voiceover is annoying, the same as when on the news you have simultaneous translation of presidents and politicians when the original voice is still quite loud.

 I will look for a transcript but in the meantime will listen carefully to Redwood because imo those expressions are very striking from the Mcs.

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             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March

Post by NickE on 23.03.14 21:58

Does anyone have access to the full "Correio da Mahna" article about Cameron's involvement in the case?
http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/exclusivo-cm/caso-maddie-ingleses-pressionam-governo-portugues

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Re: CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March

Post by Guest on 24.03.14 20:50

I've not had wifi for a few days so am catching up and have only reached p40 of this thread.

Have either of the following been considered/discussed?

Reopening of PJ investigation - if the PJ's source has stated that they reopened their investigation on the basis of these unsolved assaults on British girls, then could the crimewatch appeal be related to ILORs submitted to the UK by Portugal. This could simultaneously allow the PJ to exclude Target man from the McCann case and also help solve a number of cold cases by allowing the PJ to collect further information from UK citizens who have long left the country. IMO this could be vety useful if these cases had previously been treated as isolated incidents and the investigation into the MBM case has revealed links between them.

Bin lorry - in my experience bins are emptied through the night or very early morning in holiday resorts. This is likely to wake people who are not used to this especially British people who are lucky to get theirs emptied weekly or fortnightly. Is then the bin lorry a red herring? If the parents hadn't been disturbed by the noise then they could well have slept through Target man's night time visitations if he only sat/lay on the beds. It seems unlikely he could be a bin man as he wouldn't have time on his round to stop off and molest children.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March

Post by Guest on 24.03.14 22:18

Sorry for a quick interruption,wanted to put it here so it'll be spotted easier,hope its ok mods?

just seen there's a programme on channel 4 tomorrow night(at 9 or 10pm) about missing people..ad was zoomed in on a pic of Madeleine mccann so it will be interesting to see who is on it..

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Re: CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March

Post by Guest on 24.03.14 22:22

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-missing

It doesn't include the McCann case.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March

Post by Guest on 24.03.14 22:53

Thanks NFWTD! So channel 4 are as bad as the papers using her face on their ads to get more viewers.Ridiculous! Sorry for interruption.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March

Post by Doug D on 25.03.14 8:35

Article from Correio da Manha 24th March 2014
 
http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/nacional/portugal/policia-segue-rasto-de-burloes-de-leste
 
I have not inserted the translation as it is just about CW and 250 calls etc., then SY looking for the charity workers and adds nothing, apart from ‘the most voted comment’:
 
"All that has come to light about this case is merely" diversions "to divert attention from the real culprits. And our police already know there are many who are. .... The rest is bullshit"

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Re: CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March

Post by russiandoll on 25.03.14 8:58

Having watched the first CW again, I find the production interesting. Redwood spoke about the facts, the location of 5a in relation to the tapas bar and its access from the roads. He also spoke about the layout and we saw the steps and the entrance via the patio door, the computer images showed a walk into the lounge towards the bedroom.

 We saw the family arriving and entering via the front door, as would have happened, on arrival day. No pushchair on German version, but there was one in the UK version.

 The evening of 3rd, Redwood limits his description to the Mcs leaving for the tapas bar at 8.30.  The description of what happened that afternoon and evening was not given as a voice-over by Redwood as the film played, but by the actors playing the Mcs. A deliberate decision to arrange it this way, taken by the programme makers in agreement with SY I would guess.

 Whoever wrote the script was clearly told to leave out the Payne visit. How strange was that? In both versions I saw, no Payne. No Kate going for a shower either, while the 3 children played happily [ and safely] without supervision.
 These were allegedly the final hours of a live Madeleine yet key events have been whooshed from the narrative, including the last sighting of her by someone other than her parents.

How many people have read the truthful narrative of that evening in the book? Borrowed from UK libraries, bought, read then loaned to friends, family and work colleagues? These people would not need to have read a page of the files to notice the glaring omission of Payne.


 ETA :  WHEN YOU GOOGLE MET POLICE AND CLICK ON THE LINK FOR THE OFFICIAL SITE, THE FIRST THING YOU SEE IS THE NEW APPEAL RE THE MADDIE CASE, HUGE AT THE TOP OF THE HOME PAGE.  THE CW INFO IS THERE, AS IS THE TENNIS BALLS PHOTO. THERE IS A PHOTO OF THE MAROON SHIRT AND THE 2 SMITHMAN E FITS ARE THERE. PROMINENT ON THE PAGE.

 HOW PROMINENT ARE THESE ON OFM AND HAS TANNERMAN BEEN REMOVED YET, ALMOST CERTAINLY NOT MADDIE'S ABDUCTOR ACC TO REDWOOD ?

 For what it is worth, that Redwood has stated doubts re abduction and is questioning whether an alive Maddie left 5a, tells me that he must have uncovered something of substance to be voicing a never before voiced opinion : a possible body in 5a. rather than a sleeping child.

____________________



             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


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Re: CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March

Post by HelenMeg on 25.03.14 10:31

@russiandoll wrote:Having watched the first CW again, I find the production interesting. Redwood spoke about the facts, the location of 5a in relation to the tapas bar and its access from the roads. He also spoke about the layout and we saw the steps and the entrance via the patio door, the computer images showed a walk into the lounge towards the bedroom.

 We saw the family arriving and entering via the front door, as would have happened, on arrival day. No pushchair on German version, but there was one in the UK version.

 The evening of 3rd, Redwood limits his description to the Mcs leaving for the tapas bar at 8.30.  The description of what happened that afternoon and evening was not given as a voice-over by Redwood as the film played, but by the actors playing the Mcs. A deliberate decision to arrange it this way, taken by the programme makers in agreement with SY I would guess.

 Whoever wrote the script was clearly told to leave out the Payne visit. How strange was that? In both versions I saw, no Payne. No Kate going for a shower either, while the 3 children played happily [ and safely] without supervision.
 These were allegedly the final hours of a live Madeleine yet key events have been whooshed from the narrative, including the last sighting of her by someone other than her parents.

How many people have read the truthful narrative of that evening in the book? Borrowed from UK libraries, bought, read then loaned to friends, family and work colleagues? These people would not need to have read a page of the files to notice the glaring omission of Payne.


 ETA :  WHEN YOU GOOGLE MET POLICE AND CLICK ON THE LINK FOR THE OFFICIAL SITE, THE FIRST THING YOU SEE IS THE NEW APPEAL RE THE MADDIE CASE, HUGE AT THE TOP OF THE HOME PAGE.  THE CW INFO IS THERE, AS IS THE TENNIS BALLS PHOTO. THERE IS A PHOTO OF THE MAROON SHIRT AND THE 2 SMITHMAN E FITS ARE THERE. PROMINENT ON THE PAGE.

 HOW PROMINENT ARE THESE ON OFM AND HAS TANNERMAN BEEN REMOVED YET, ALMOST CERTAINLY NOT MADDIE'S ABDUCTOR ACC TO REDWOOD ?

 For what it is worth, that Redwood has stated doubts re abduction and is questioning whether an alive Maddie left 5a, tells me that he must have uncovered something of substance to be voicing a never before voiced opinion : a possible body in 5a. rather than a sleeping child.
So why have they left out PAYNE.?

Do they feel his visit to Kate did not occur?
Are we being brainwashed that his visit to Kate did not occur?
Have they already established everything they need to know about his visit and the part he played?

For certain, they have a significant reason as to why he is not included, and I very much doubt it is because they think it is not relevant. I think they already know how the death occurred - and they are now just concentrating on the remaining necessary 'eliminations'

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Re: CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March

Post by Miraflores on 25.03.14 10:55

For certain, they have a significant reason as to why he is not included, and I very much doubt it is because they think it is not relevant. I think they already know how the death occurred - and they are now just concentrating on the remaining necessary 'eliminations'

I wish I could share your opinion, but I don't. I think for some reason someone has decided that he is worth protecting. Maybe he is the one who was worth protecting all along. Why? I have no idea - a handful of Drs with a good opinion of themselves doesn't make them important people in my book.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March

Post by HelenMeg on 25.03.14 10:59

@Miraflores wrote:
For certain, they have a significant reason as to why he is not included, and I very much doubt it is because they think it is not relevant. I think they already know how the death occurred - and they are now just concentrating on the remaining necessary 'eliminations'

I wish I could share your opinion, but I don't. I think for some reason someone has decided that he is worth protecting. Maybe he is the one who was worth protecting all along. Why? I have no idea - a handful of Drs with a good opinion of themselves doesn't make them important people in my book.

I understand what you mean - i just dont think they can 'erase' him. I dont think anyone out of the TAPAS 9 is being protected, just those on a slightly higher level . Ther has to be a cut off point for who gets protected and who doesn't. I feel DP falls below that line.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March

Post by Bishop Brennan on 25.03.14 11:49

@HelenMeg wrote:

I understand what you mean - i just dont think they can 'erase' him. I dont think anyone out of the TAPAS 9 is being protected, just those on a slightly higher level . Ther has to be a cut off point for who gets protected and who doesn't. I feel DP falls below that line.

If you are looking for an exit or a creating a coverup then erasing unhelpful details is a fundamental part. Also airbrushed out of history on the same program (and indeed every report in the last 3 years) are our good friends Eddie and Keela. Potentially the two most important players in this entire story. Certainly two that we can be 100% certain are not lying and don't have any hidden agenda.

But perhaps Payne and the dogs form part of "the other story". And that was not the story for CW night. But as we know from recent TV documentaries, the Portugese have Payne and the dogs very much in their storyline. We must just hope that the PJ read the right stories...

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Re: CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March

Post by pennylane on 25.03.14 12:20

No Payne, no gain........

at least that's what the Met were hoping.  They're running scared now (imo), which is
why Redwood snuck in the 'dead before leaving the apartment' possibility.  Now that is a Crimewatch "revelation," DCI Redwood!  

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Re: CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March

Post by HelenMeg on 25.03.14 12:34

@Bishop Brennan wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:

I understand what you mean - i just dont think they can 'erase' him. I dont think anyone out of the TAPAS 9 is being protected, just those on a slightly higher level . Ther has to be a cut off point for who gets protected and who doesn't. I feel DP falls below that line.

If you are looking for an exit or a creating a coverup then erasing unhelpful details is a fundamental part. Also airbrushed out of history on the same program (and indeed every report in the last 3 years) are our good friends Eddie and Keela.  Potentially the two most important players in this entire story.  Certainly two that we can be 100% certain are not lying and don't have any hidden agenda.

But perhaps Payne and the dogs form part of "the other story".  And that was not the story for CW night.  But as we know from recent TV documentaries, the Portugese have Payne and the dogs very much in their storyline.  We must just hope that the PJ read the right stories...
Yes I agree that a 'cover up' process will have to dismiss or erase certain facts or elements. I just dont think they have chosen to 'erase' Dr Payne, merely have chosen for good reason, not to focus on that visit. Erasing Payne would highlight a cover up operation with full spotlight. I also dont think they have chosen to erase Eddie and Keela. These spaniels were a means to highlighting forensic evidence revealing death. Now that death is being acknowledged then there is good reason to suppose that Eddie and Keela played a vital part and there is no reason to think they are being airbrushed out. IMO, SY have to choose how much truth to reveal about what happened

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Re: CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March

Post by Guest on 25.03.14 16:43

PAT BROWN ‏@ProfilerPatB · 7 mins
My new blog post - "No, Andy Redwood and Scotland Yard are not Trying to Solve the Madeleine McCann Case" #McCann http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com/2014/03/why-andy-redwood-and-scotland-yard-are.html


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Re: CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March

Post by ultimaThule on 25.03.14 16:57

I can't agree with Pat Brown that "the "review" is a sham because even if Scotland Yard leaned away from the McCanns as being involved in the disappearance of their daughter, their incredible refusal to even review the physical and behavioral evidence from the crime scene and days following is astounding and unprofessional and is a standard procedure if to do no more than to clear the parents and search for overlooked clues" as, from her location on the other side of the pond, she is even less well placed than others to determine that Operation Grange have refused to review what would have been staring them in the face the minute they set to work on the PJ files.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH Update on MadeleineMcCann case tonight 19th March

Post by pennylane on 25.03.14 17:28

candyfloss wrote:PAT BROWN ‏@ProfilerPatB  · 7 mins  
My new blog post - "No, Andy Redwood and Scotland Yard are not Trying to Solve the Madeleine McCann Case" #McCann http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com/2014/03/why-andy-redwood-and-scotland-yard-are.html

Well done Pat Brown and a big thank you!

We need to leave no stone unturned in exposing the corrupt circle surrounding the McCanns, and the Met's foul attempt at rewriting history. Please keep up the good work from the other side of the pond!   clapping

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