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Missing Flight MH370

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Re: Missing Flight MH370

Post by tigger on 24.03.14 7:42

Interesting video. Also read sergei@sergeimirkat on twitter.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yfsYIdqvhg4

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Re: Missing Flight MH370

Post by Silver Shuffle on 24.03.14 7:47

The media is not behaving any better here than in the MM case! It's disgusting, especially for the families. It all rings bells and not wanting to contribute to speculation, but a lot of similarities to the Helios flight!

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Re: Missing Flight MH370

Post by russiandoll on 24.03.14 13:57

2 experts on CNN earlier this morning said that the news that the flight path was not programmed for a change 12 minutes before the change  of direction is a huge development : despite the fact that it was military radar that picked up some info re the rapid descent and that this radar was not " transponder- friendly", there had been a rapid change of direction after the last sign -off message from the cockpit,  a swing away from other air traffic, taking care to minimise danger after a catastrophe, and that there was a quick descent to 12,000 ft  [ the aim is for land and rapid descent to 10,000 ft according to these aviation experts ].
 Now breaking, what was seen " live " from the air force planes this morning was picked up by a navy ship and it is now beyond all reasonable doubt that 370 was lost in the southern Indian Ocean, no survivors. The debris picked up has yet to be confirmed. The conclusion re what has happened is that the British satellite company which has been involved in tracking the plane had located it flying west of Perth, so they reasonably believe this debris is from the plane.
 The 2 people on tv this morning said that after this development, something catastrophic seeming to happen soon after the pilot saying goodnight, there was little doubt now that this was a catastrophe , no nefarious events.


 God bless the families and God rest the souls.

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Re: Missing Flight MH370

Post by Tony Bennett on 24.03.14 15:09

@russiandoll wrote:2 experts on CNN earlier this morning said that the news that the flight path was not programmed for a change 12 minutes before the change  of direction is a huge development...something catastrophic seeming to happen soon after the pilot saying goodnight, there was little doubt now that this was a catastrophe, no nefarious events...
Well, I've seen the most recent news reports, and I'm not convinced.

For a start, the circumstances of the top CNN reporter, Richard Quest, being in the actual cockpit of the same plane and with the same pilot, just one week before flight MH370 took off, has yet to be fully explained:



And what ANOTHER CNN reporter was doing on that very plane a week later before the flight took off (he didn't actually go on the flight itself, though).

I'm not sure how ones arrives at the conclusion that there was 'nothing nefarious', russiandoll, when according to the story you have posted, the pilot did a near 180-degree turn less than an hour into the flight and. insetad of heading NE for Beijing in China, apparently headed thousands of miles SW in the general direction of Antarctica

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Re: Missing Flight MH370

Post by crystalclear on 24.03.14 17:43

The switching off of the transponder and communications was a deliberate act.apparently its not like just flicking a switch,you have to know what you are doing.

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Re: Missing Flight MH370

Post by russiandoll on 24.03.14 18:11

All I posted is what was stated THIS MORNING by SOME EXPERTS. After rapid descent it seems acc to latest data, to do with the satellite  and info from Inmarsat, that the plane regained cruising altitude.

 There are still questions re nefarious activity from DIFFERENT EXPERTS, who believe that while auto pilot took it to the south Indian Ocean, it changed direction more than once.

 Not everyone is ruling out bad intent and cockpit intrusion, pilots overwhelmed.

 I have an open mind.
 
 I do not understand your comments re CNN .

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Re: Missing Flight MH370

Post by Newintown on 24.03.14 18:21

@russiandoll wrote:All I posted is what was stated THIS MORNING by SOME EXPERTS. After rapid descent it seems acc to latest data, to do with the satellite  and info from Inmarsat, that the plane regained cruising altitude.

 There are still questions re nefarious activity from DIFFERENT EXPERTS, who believe that while auto pilot took it to the south Indian Ocean, it changed direction more than once.

 Not everyone is ruling out bad intent and cockpit intrusion, pilots overwhelmed.

 I have an open mind.
 
 I do not understand your comments re CNN .

I think TB has a point, when you have every tom, dick and harry coming into the cockpit whether by request by the pilot, co-pilot or any other "official" source the pilots are playing a very dangerous game as they do not know what intentions these people have.

Unfortunately, on this flight they may have let into the cockpit people they wish they hadn't!!

ETA: I should have mentioned that after 9/11 you would imagine that every pilot around the World in charge of a plane would be on their guard against people getting access to the cockpit of any plane, whether a small plane or large plane , they can still do catastrophic damage if flown into a city centre.

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Re: Missing Flight MH370

Post by Guest on 24.03.14 18:42

Whereas the "damage" will be "restricted" to 260+ people, if you fly it into a large and deep ocean ...

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Re: Missing Flight MH370

Post by Newintown on 24.03.14 18:54

Châtelaine wrote:Whereas the "damage" will be "restricted" to 260+ people, if you fly it into a large and deep ocean ...

Well could be, but even the USA and numerous other countries with all their spy equipment haven't come up with anything yet.  I believe myself that the plane may have gone into water somewhere, but nothing is impossible in this day and age, no one foresaw 9/11 (or so we were lead to believe) perhaps noone foresaw this catastrophe.

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Re: Missing Flight MH370

Post by Lance De Boils on 24.03.14 20:54

Whatever on board catastrophic event might or might not have occurred, I don't understand why the flight path would have ever been reprogrammed to head towards antarctica.

That makes no sense whatsoever. If the pilots had time to re-route the plane, they'd have had time to issue a mayday.

If there was a sudden decompression, pilots would know (it's drummed into them through very regular training sessions and upates) that the VERY first thing they do is don oxygen masks, then rapidly drop to a low altitude. They would then be going through their drills and issuing maydays. They'd be heading to the nearest suitable airport - not the southern Indian Ocean.

IF the pilots did not immediately get on oxygen, they would  almost certainly have lost consciousness very quickly. But that wouldn't explain the turning off of the transponder and re-routing. They must have been conscious for long enough to do all that - and again, why head where the plane apparently did?

Sorry, but I'm not understanding any of this.

 nah

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Re: Missing Flight MH370

Post by rainbow-fairy on 24.03.14 21:23

Posted by a Fb friend on her wall 52m ago:

'BREAKING NEWS - Malaysian PM Najib Razak has revealed in an emergency press conference that, according to new and extensive data, flight #MH370 crashed at a location in the Southern Indian Ocean, southwest of Perth.

Malaysia Airlines has notified relatives of the families and crew.'

Haven't had time to google any news articles proper.

Deepest symapthy to the bereaved

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Re: Missing Flight MH370

Post by Tony Bennett on 24.03.14 21:30

@Newintown wrote:
I think TB has a point, when you have every tom, dick and harry coming into the cockpit whether by request by the pilot, co-pilot or any other "official" source the pilots are playing a very dangerous game as they do not know what intentions these people have.

Unfortunately, on this flight they may have let into the cockpit people they wish they hadn't!!
I was slightly mistaken on one point about the senior CNN reporter, Richard Quest.

According to this CNN report a week or so ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phRyN9RO-Ek

...although he was on a flight with the VERY SAME pilot and VERY SAME co-pilot who flew the ill-fated MH370 flight...

...he says in the report that it was a SIMILAR plane he was flying and not the same one.

My apologies.

The fact that CNN's Quest had flown in a Boeing 777 with those very two pilots just a week or two before another Boeing 777 posed one of the biggest mysteries since the disapperance of Madeleine McCann may of course just be an uncanny coincidence.


ETA:

I would like to add these observations.

Here is a quote from the Guardian article on the subject:

QUOTE

He added that they had used a "type of analysis never before used in an investigation of this sort".

The new method "gives the approximate direction of travel, plus or minus about 100 miles, to a track line", Chris McLaughlin, senior vice-president for external affairs at Inmarsat, told Sky News. "Unfortunately this is a 1990s satellite over the Indian Ocean that is not GPS-equipped. All we believe we can do is to say that we believe it is in this general location, but we cannot give you the final few feet and inches where it landed. It's not that sort of system."

UNQUOTE

In another report, Inmarsat was quoted as saying that in arriving at this unlikely location west of Perth, they had used a new predictive 'model'.

How can anyone possibly evaluate this assessment when it is based on:

A. "A type of analysis never used before in an investigation of this sort" and

B. A new predictive 'model'?

So only Inmarsat and their new investiagtion method and new model can tell us where this plane is?

The plane was headed NE towards Beijing for the first hour.

The evidence seems clear that it then headed near enough due west for another hour (and as others have noted up the thread, there is evidence of several very deliberate actions during the first hour by whoever was in control of the plane.

It is then supposed to have changed direction again and flown south-west towards the Antarctic.

And we are supposed to believe this theory when not one item from the plane or one passenger has yet been identified?

Is no news medium anywhere questioning or challenging Inmarsat's analysis?

One thing is I think reasonably certain, assuming these unfortunate passengers are no longer alive.

It is surely a case of mass murder.

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Re: Missing Flight MH370

Post by Guest on 24.03.14 21:41

@Tony Bennett wrote: [...]

One thing is I think reasonably certain, assuming these unfortunate passengers are no longer alive.
It is surely a case of mass murder.
***
Yes, but I have become lately to believe, that it might have been murder/suicide to prevent an even bigger one: a mass murder ... Cannot put the finger on it precisely, so I apologise in advance for maybe being far off target.

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Re: Missing Flight MH370

Post by Tony Bennett on 25.03.14 8:02

On board Flight MH370 were 20 employees of Freescale Semiconductors, a company specialising in aviation electronics.

The source for the claim that the plane crashed west of Australia, whilst heading for Antarctica, is a company called Inmarsat. It has claimed that 'a new form of analysis' and its so-called 'predictive model' fixes the point the plane crashed deep in the southern Indian Ocean.

To coin a phrase: 'I'm not buying it'.  

Here's some more information about both companies:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 
When it was announced that 20 of the passengers on the missing Malaysian Airlines flight worked for a Texas company called Freescale Semiconductors, people naturally began to investigate them. The four major shareholders of Freescale are Blackstone Group, Carlyle Group, TPG Capital, and Permira.

Blackstone Group is notable because its board of directors and top executives are almost exclusively members of the notorious Council on Foreign Relations. Quite a few of them also belong to secret societies, including Skull & Bones, Kappa Beta Phi, and Quill and Dagger. Lord Jacob Rothschild is also on Blackstone’s international advisory board. In addition, there is a Randall Rothschild listed as a managing director.

The Carlyle Group once had George H.W. Bush serving as an adviser there, and Osama bin Laden’s brother, Shafiq bin Laden, invested with Carlyle Group. Bush had actually met the bin Ladens on two occasions while working at Carlyle.

Blackstone and Carlyle are two of the largest private equity firms, so the links to Freescale Semiconductor may be insignificant. Permira, however, is a smaller private equity firm.

One Permira acquisition worth mentioning is Inmarsat. Inmarsat is the satellite company which tracked Malaysian Airlines flight MH370 after the tracking devices were turned off. Some are questioning why we only have the final radar ping from Inmarsat, when we know the satellite received several pings which could be used to narrow the search field. The entire search seems to be dependent on data from Inmarsat.

The Harbinger Group controls 28% of Inmarsat. That name should set off some alarm bells. The Harbinger Group was formerly known as Zapata Corporation, George H.W. Bush’s company. It’s also a well known CIA front, with connections to the Bay of Pigs invasion, the Watergate scandal, and the Iran-Contra affair.

A CIA document obtained from a FOIA request also seems to suggest the agency had a hand in, or at least an interest in, the creation of Inmarsat.

Permira is one of the major shareholders for Freescale Semiconductors, which had 20 employees on the plane, and also a major shareholder of Inmarsat which is the satellite company that tracked the plane after the tracking devices were shut down.

http://thesmellingsalts.wordpress.co...d-and-the-cia/_

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Cultural differences

Post by PeterMac on 25.03.14 8:29

Yet again I am struck by the differences between cultures to the way they deal with grief.
At the funeral of the Diana, sometime Princess of Wales, the entire capital and many other places across the Nation, stood in total silence as her cortege passed.
At normal funerals 'we' remain largely silent, quiet and involve ourselves in deep contemplation, of the person's life and deeds, or possibly of the "Life Everlasting".
We interpret this as dignity and reverence.

At a Muslim funeral in contrast. there is screaming shouting, ritualised throwing oneself on the ground, and if we remember Arafat's, serious attempts to take the coffin from the bearers, one supposed to open it.
"We' see this as undignified, barbarian, ridiculous, and disgraceful, though clearly the level of personal grief is the same.

In China, on hearing the inevitable news, for which everyone - surely - had prepared themselves, we saw screaming, fighting, fainting, and more of a culturally determined response.
The authorities already had paramedics standing by, as part of the response to what they knew was going to happen.
And relatives were then demanding that their loved ones be RETURNED to them ? ? ?

We view self-control as a virtue.
It seems other cultures do not.



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Re: Missing Flight MH370

Post by russiandoll on 25.03.14 9:09

Someone was on Sky last night saying that the Chinese are intensely private and that in their culture there is no funeral " ceremony " for anyone other than the elderly, other ages are laid to rest very quietly and without fuss. He added that the mourning period is 49 days, after which you are supposed to be seen getting on with life normally.

He spoke about the goldfish bowl of media attention having an effect on the bereaved families, together with the highly-charged atmosphere of their being together in large numbers along with the emotion generated by the daily meetings with officials.

Viewers could witness relatives leaving the meeting where the bad news was delivered covering their faces and a couple of men had their hands up to media cameras and in  one case a casual observer seemed to be filming on a mobile a woman being pushed in a wheelchair. Still, CNN played all this footage on a loop, as did Sky. Both also played the footage of an overwhelmed woman who had lost her son, daughter in law and grandchild.

 Out of their usual comfort zone of stoicism and privacy, then and together in large numbers in a confined space... this China expert found their behaviour understandable and distressing.
 Whatever gets them through it, I say.

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Re: Missing Flight MH370

Post by aiyoyo on 25.03.14 9:48

@PeterMac wrote:Yet again I am struck by the differences between cultures to the way they deal with grief.
At the funeral of the Diana, sometime Princess of Wales, the entire capital and many other places across the Nation, stood in total silence as her cortege passed.
At normal funerals 'we' remain largely silent, quiet and involve ourselves in deep contemplation, of the person's life and deeds, or possibly of the "Life Everlasting".
We interpret this as dignity and reverence.

At a Muslim funeral in contrast. there is screaming shouting, ritualised throwing oneself on the ground, and if we remember Arafat's, serious attempts to take the coffin from the bearers, one supposed to open it.
"We' see this as undignified, barbarian, ridiculous, and disgraceful, though clearly the level of personal grief is the same.

In China, on hearing the inevitable news, for which everyone - surely - had prepared themselves, we saw screaming, fighting, fainting, and more of a culturally determined response.
The authorities already had paramedics standing by, as part of the response to what they knew was going to happen.
And relatives were then demanding that their loved ones be RETURNED to them ? ? ?

We view self-control as a virtue.
It seems other cultures do not.



It's pointless protesting at Embassy/Consulate with placards demanding for relatives to be RETURNED - it is not a CAUSE!
Not something that the Malaysian Government can do something to change.
I view the Chinese behavior more as anger rather than just grieving; hence the highly charged emotions associate with anger - lost of self-control, undignified, barbaric and disgraceful - It's  ridiculous to be angry at a government for something like that.
The filter of info to relatives could have been improved but it won't change any thing.

The cultural difference is in the reaction to a catastrophe - ie anger instead of dignified acceptance.

FAIK, Muslim funeral in the regions of Singapore Malaysian and Indonesia is an intensely family affair conducting in private in a dignified way. Funeral to do with well-known public figure is something else altogether where are other underlying reasons to be loud and ridiculous depending on the public sentiments against what purpose.

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Re: Missing Flight MH370

Post by aquila on 25.03.14 9:52

If you apply the basic questions to this incident what are the answers?

Who? - not known
What? - not known
Where? - not known
Why? - not known
When? - not known
How? - not known

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Re: Missing Flight MH370

Post by aiyoyo on 25.03.14 11:07

@russiandoll wrote:Someone was on Sky last night saying that the Chinese are intensely private and that in their culture there is no funeral " ceremony " for anyone other than the elderly, other ages are laid to rest very quietly and without fuss. He added that the mourning period is 49 days, after which you are supposed to be seen getting on with life normally.

He spoke about the goldfish bowl of media attention having an effect on the bereaved families, together with the highly-charged atmosphere of their being together in large numbers along with the emotion generated by the daily meetings with officials.

Viewers could witness relatives leaving the meeting where the bad news was delivered covering their faces and a couple of men had their hands up to media cameras and in  one case a casual observer seemed to be filming on a mobile a woman being pushed in a wheelchair. Still, CNN played all this footage on a loop, as did Sky. Both also played the footage of an overwhelmed woman who had lost her son, daughter in law and grandchild.

 Out of their usual comfort zone of stoicism and privacy, then and together in large numbers in a confined space... this China expert found their behaviour understandable and distressing.
 Whatever gets them through it, I say.

[Sky reporters should get their facts right.
I  used to  live in the Far East for some years, and had the occasions to attend both the Chinese and Muslim funerals.

The Chinese culture is  legendary for big funeral ceremony with funeral wake lasting up from 3-7 days.
Coffin is on display during the wake for families, friends, relatives, colleagues, associates et al to come to pay last respect.
Throughout the wake copious amount of incense papers and joss sticks are burned incessantly while monks chant at appointed hours accompanied by families wailing and crying to show their grieving to their departed loved ones.
Night before the coffin is to depart to the crematorium paper-possessions of house, mansion, passport, money, car, clothings etc will be burned as an appointed time decided by the priest/monk as offerings honoring the death in the belief their loved departed one can bring them with into their next life.   Chinese funeral ceremony is an elaborate and costly event that  can cost a bomb the more elaborate the funeral ceremony corresponding to individual finance situation.  The wealthier the individual the more elaborate and costlier the ceremony.

I must say I was daunted by the Chinese funerals; I find them surreal and a tad impractical.
In contrast, in the Islamic tradition the highest honour you can give someone in death is a swift burial. Muslims try to bury before sunset on the same day of death, with the dead body enshrouded in a Kafan regardless of one's wealth status.

To put in right context, this air crash shows us the cultural difference of Mainland China from the rest of the world; and not merely Chinese Culture vs Western culture which isn't a correct representation. There are Chinese of other countries on board MH 370 and their reaction is dignified grieving.  The mainland Chinese government intimidating demands of the Malaysian Authority is stoking the anger of its people and thus whipping up a mass hysteria that isn't going to help the victims families deal with their grieving in a dignified manner.

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Re: Missing Flight MH370

Post by russiandoll on 25.03.14 13:27


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Re: Missing Flight MH370

Post by PeterMac on 25.03.14 15:52

I remain entirely unclear what the proposed Hunger Strike was to achieve.

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Re: Missing Flight MH370

Post by aiyoyo on 25.03.14 17:34

Objective ? Media attention on their anger at the handling of the investigation apparently.
How that is going to resolve their anger or resolve anything I haven't the foggiest idea !

It is not clear whether hunger strike has started.

There had been air crashes throughout history, including one China Airlines was involved in May 2002 killing 225 people.
But I have never seen anger reaction in the likes of these Mainland Chinese - it's quite uncivilized the way they carry on.


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Re: Missing Flight MH370

Post by Guest on 25.03.14 18:08

petermac do you think the relatives may be actors? Or am I putting two and two together to get 5?

I do not believe this plane crashed in the Indian ocean,I do not believe that after 16days it was tracked to this area and I do not believe that after daily searches since the plane went missing,today was the first day that the weather brought the search to a halt.


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Re: Missing Flight MH370

Post by aiyoyo on 25.03.14 18:37

Belllisa, what is your point ?

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Re: Missing Flight MH370

Post by aiyoyo on 25.03.14 18:58

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/bestoftv/2014/03/25/morning-minute-3-25-newday.cnn.html

Interesting theory - stopped, refueled, then possibly shot down. It's gets more and more bizarre !

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