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Terminally McCanned?

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by Monty Heck on 18.03.14 22:15

@PeterMac wrote:Some strange goings on.
3 May 2007   (NOTE:  this information not released until May 2011)
p.  75  “Had Madeleine been given some kind of sedative to keep her quiet ?  Had the twins, too ?”   [3.1]

5 May 2007       (NOTE:  statement dated 25 April 2008)
“They also wanted to know whether the PJ had any evidence that would suggest that the person who took Madeleine had used any substance to facilitate the abduction.”   [3.2]

3 August 2007   (NOTE:  this information not released until June 2008)
“due to which she now presumes that they were under the effect of some sedative drug that a presumed abductor had administered to the three children in order to be able to abduct Madeleine, a situation which Kate refers to being possible . .”  

August 2007
Q: Do you think the children were sedated?
A: There is no doubt.  (Here he told an anecdote: that Kate called a colleague of Gonçalo Amaral's in the PJ, in August, to ask them to check the twins for traces of sedation. Apparently Kate was alone when she called, and a bit upset. That same afternoon, Gerry called and cancelled the request.)   [3.4]

First denials that the parents had used sedation

August 2007
See previous entry. “That same afternoon, Gerry called and cancelled the request.” [3.5]

10 August 2007  ( or thereabouts)
Gerry:  “you know we’re not gonna comment, on anything but you know there is absolutely no way we use any sedative drugs or anything like that an’ you know we we have co-operated with the police we’ll answer any queries ermm …any tests that they want to do. . . “  [3.6]

Implied acceptance of possibility

24 September 2007
Forensic scientist from Control Risks take hair samples from Kate and the twins at the McCanns’ own request  
It is also striking that we are never told of the laboratory which performed the analysis on the hair samples, we are never shown the results, and in fact we have to turn to an Indian newspaper to find these details.  Here it is stated that a company called TrichoTest performed the analysis. [3.17]  [3.18]

And yet even then we have this strange passage,
“All the hair samples produced negative results. While this didn’t totally exclude the possibility that the children had been sedated, especially given the time that had elapsed, it meant nobody else (including the PJ and the media) could prove otherwise.”  [3.19]

The emphasis is not on the twins’ welfare or whether some noxious substance had been administered. Kate is purely concerned with whether there is sufficient “proof” against the parents.   But at the same time she is by implication admitting that the twins might have been sedated.

There are other bizarre aspects of the hair analysis. Laboratories advertise their ability for analyse for a period of 90 days.    The McCanns’s samples were not taken until 24th September, almost six months, 144 days later. Although it is possible at that stage to test for continuous drug use, it is not believed that a single dose of a drug, given in the amount approriate to a 2 year old would be sufficient for sucessful identifcation on analysis.

Kate describes the process as leaving her looking as it she had alopaecia. [3.19] The laboratories state they need one sample taken from close to the scalp, no larger than “a shoelace tip”  [3.20]

This may simply be “|ournalistic licence” to evoke sympathy from the reader, or to add some human interest, and that could be accepted if the book were not described as “very truthful”.
Thanks PM.  So early on, only wishing to know whether the PJ had any evidence of sedation, much later a request was made but immediately cancelled.  Strange goings on indeed, and certainly no sense of urgency shown.

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by Guest on 18.03.14 22:51

[quote="onehand"] [...]
maybe hairs with corpse banding could help as first lead to also change your investigation to a dead person, but you have to investigate further until you found enough evidence that is coupled to a specific person in this case with enough other evidence.
you could say, hairs with a corpse banding gives a lead that at ant time before a dead body could have be present. but you won't know that it was the person you are looking fore, it could be there from some odd way of contamination. 

the same way like the use of the dogs, they bring leads, but the evidence have to come from confirming evidence, like forensics. 

[...]/quote]
***
Do I understand correctly, that when a child goes missing and top-EVRD & CSI dogs signal to cadaver and blood in their parent's rented apartment and rented car AND on top hair with corpse-banding would be found in same car, there would still be the burden of proving WHO'S corpse we're talking about ...?!

ETA I seem to have problems again with quotes ...  sad

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by Cristobell on 18.03.14 23:30

I once worked for solicitors who dealt with child protection and contact issues.  Most of the parents had to undergo regular hair testing for drugs before being allowed to see their children.  Apparently a hair follicle can give an entire history of a person's drug taking, with the hair closest to the scalp showing the most recent drugs.

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by onehand on 18.03.14 23:49

you do understand it correctly.

the dogs on their own are not evidence, except maybe in the usa. look up the statements from martin grimes from the pj files, he explanes it nicely. the dogs are a tool to find evidence, they don't deliver evidence on their own actions. the forensic findings must do this.

in this case the dogs did their jobs nicely, but the forensics did not meet up to prove it. results are unconclusive, so no yes or no.

you have to prove that those findings belong to exactly this missing person and not any other person. because the dogs react to scents which are not traceable to a specific person and a hair with corpse banding without confirmed dna did not also. it could be any dead persons hair with the same hair color. it could only be just enough for getting an warrant for arrest. but in itself even that is difficult, because on itself it is still not bound to a possible suspect. depends mostly on the guts of the cps. to many people who had access to apt. 5a and the car. think of all that family and friends who make use of that car. 

[size=12.727272033691406]it is different if you have also the body, then both could be accepted before court as circumstantial evidence, not for how this person died and who did this, but for action to conceal the body.[/size]

the pj did act on this, by asking any user of the apt. 5a and all that had rented the car before, for other leads that could came up with another dead person. it is still not complete, because the lawyer of the accused could come up with a hole list of personnel from the ocean park, mark warner and hired personnel. and for the car the mechanics and any other person with possible access to that car. 

if you only have to make believable these reactions of the dogs and if there was a hair of more found with a corps banding on it to the people, it would be convincing enough, but the law ask more, certainly if this become a accusation of murder or manslaughter.
for that you have to need proof. 
you have to fulfill the question: WHO, did WHAT, WHEN, HOW and WHY? and that means you need a lot more.

the dogs don't tell from which person the scent they react too is coming.
a not identified hair with a corps banding don't tell were the hair comes from of from who it was.. 

both together could say dead body around. but that is just not enough. 

not your fault this miss in the quote, the forum likes to play around with the up make of text.

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by Guest on 19.03.14 0:09

I do understand, you're replying to me, onehand [and not to cristobel].

But doesn't logic dictate, that
* there was cadaver in apt 5A
* there was cadaver in the Scenic
* the hair were NOT checked for corpse banding, but if they would have and found it, it would again indicate that there was a corpse
* that there's no one missing in relation to apt.5A or the Scenic apart from Madeleine?
* that her parents and friends have been telling porkies about her "disappearance"
* that there is no evidence whatsoever for a kidnapper
* that the word "abduction" has been used with reason, as it also [and originally] refers to simply "taking away", which IMO in fact has happened, but not of an alive MBM
* that the twins were obviously drugged up to their eyeballs
* that a group of Irish witnesses saw someone resembling GM carrying a little blond, pale girl at 10 pm on May 3
* etc., etc., etc. ...




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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by suzyjohnson on 19.03.14 0:58

@Cristobell wrote:............ why on earth are friends covering up?  

I think one of the things that people find hard to believe with this case, is the fact that a large group of professionals would conspire in the disappearance of a child.  None of them were that close to the McCanns according to the rogatory statements.  On 3rd May, they were innocent bystanders to whatever went on.  They may have faced neglect charges, in that they too left their children, but they were charges they could have contested and probably won, clearing their names. They had baby monitors.

I think I have reached the stage where I am over thinking and have found myself back at square 1.  Unfortunately, if you take sedation out of the equation, what are you left with?  What brought about the 'collective decision'?  And thats a toughie.  I am trying to rule out the tapas from having any involvement, and having great difficulty!   

There may not have been many of the Tapas group involved, I have reached the conclusion there many only be two of them ........

!) DW - most of us are agreed that she was not involved in a cover up

2) FW - she drew attention to the fact that KM kept checking the twins breathing on the 3rd May, why would she do that if she were involved?

3) ROB and JT, between them they were absent from the Tapas between 9.15 - 10 pm, would either of them kinow whether or not GM was absent from the table? ROB may not be involved in any cover up but three things make JT's story suspicious
a) that she says she saw Tannerman
b) that she later identified Tannerman as Murat
c) That she said she walked past GM and JW on a narrow street but that neither of them saw her
So, JT may have been involved in a cover up, she may have just felt sympathy for the McCanns plight and tried to be helpful.

4) RO, no evidence (except for her identification of Murat) that she may have been lying, as someone said yesterday she has kept very quiet, perhaps she was not involved.

5) MO - although he checked the McCann children at 9.30 pm, this does not necessarily mean he was involved in a cover up. It is not surprising imo that he did not go into the children's bedroom, he may have woken them up. If he had discovered MM missing, he would not have checked all the apartment but would have gone back to tell her parents. 

6) DP - GM's long standing friend, he provided an alibi for KM at 6.30 pm and said he had seen the children at this time. GM left the tennis court very soon after DP arrived back (did Payne give him a message to go straight back to Kate?) Possibly he was in the know.

One thing that surprised me about when the alarm was raised at 10 pm (earlier according to some witnesses), was that ONLY KM, GM and DP went into 5A, the others (except DW who stayed at the Tapas) remained at the bottom of the patio steps, then they went to check their own children. IF there were any cover up, GM would have had the opportunity to leave 5A by the front door during this time and head to the beach, possibly, encountering the Smith family five minutes later at 10 pm.

If this were the case GM would not have been absent from the Tapas table except for his check 9.05 - 9.20 pm, and therefore the others would not be lying as he would not have been missing from the table, so, most of the Tapas group may not have been involved in a cover up after all?

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by ultimaThule on 19.03.14 1:18

@Woofer wrote:
Woofer wrote:
ultimaThule wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:Is there anything in the world that the ROTHSCHILD's don't control or own....
They don't control or own me.   Other than those which grace my table, I'm hard pressed to think of any pies that the Rothschilds and the Oppenheimers haven't got their fingers in.

Eta maybe this is the reason Kate was keen to make it known that she is descended from Ashkenazi jews via her father's family?

Did she ???   and is she ???   I know its off topic, but just a quickie.
 I'll try to put this reply on another thread which mentioned haemophilia - but -was Googling haemophilia and discovered that although the usual H A and H B strains of it are extremely rare in females, unless you have a H father and a H carrier mother, a strain of it was confined to Ashkenazic Jews.



 Post referring to haemophilia possibility is JeanMonroe's post, at 12.34 today, on "Terminally McCanned" thread.

In her bewk, the devout Catholic says 'My father's line are a mix of Ashkenazim and Sephardic Jews, Woofer.As with every word that comes forth from the saintly one's gob mouth, this claim is best not taken as gospel and it occurs to me that, having exploited their the Scottish, Irish, Liverpudlian, and Catholic roots, mention of having descended from Ashkenazi and Sephardi jews - which effectively establishes a link, however tenuous, to the majority of the Jewish peoples of the world, merely ads another group to whom she can appeal for cash from those gullible souls who may feel obliged to put their hands in the pockets to aid a fellow countryman, so to speak.

I'm surprised we haven't heard about all those CofE, muslim, hindi, african, afro-Caribbean, gay, etc, lives she and her spouse saved during their years of selflessly slaving for the NHS.


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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by onehand on 19.03.14 6:15

[size=12.727272033691406]@Chatelaine [/size]
[size=15.454545021057129]there was cadaver in apt 5A
* there was cadaver in the Scenic
* the hair were NOT checked for corpse banding, but if they would have and found it, it would again indicate that there was a corpse
* that there's no one missing in relation to apt.5A or the Scenic apart from Madeleine?
* that her parents and friends have been telling porkies about her "disappearance"
* that there is no evidence whatsoever for a kidnapper
* that the word "abduction" has been used with reason, as it also [and originally] refers to simply "taking away", which IMO in fact has happened, but not of an alive MBM
* that the twins were obviously drugged up to their eyeballs
* that a group of Irish witnesses saw someone resembling GM carrying a little blond, pale girl at 10 pm on May 3
* etc., etc., etc. ...
[/size]
[size=15.454545021057129]                              ---------------------[/size]
[size=15.454545021057129] [/size]
[size=15.454545021057129] [/size]
[size=15.454545021057129]logic has it uses for the investigation, but not for the court, court ask proving all those things.[/size]
[size=15.454545021057129] [/size]
[size=15.454545021057129]If you don’t have evidence it will not say it has not taken place.[/size]
[size=15.454545021057129] [/size]
[size=15.454545021057129]Lack of evidence don’t mean the opposite is true or false. Every part of a accusation you have to proof by evidence before the court.[/size]
[size=15.454545021057129]There is enough to come to a conclusion for your own opinion and in this case, mine does equal yours. But this type of conclusion is not what the law demands. The law ask for facts and circumstances and the resulting evidence from that.[/size]
[size=15.454545021057129] [/size]
[size=15.454545021057129]IMO there was a cadaver in apt.5a, but the forensics are inconclusive, so not a yes or no.[/size]
[size=15.454545021057129]Meaning it can’t be used as evidence. The third did not been used, so that is only speculation.[/size]
[size=15.454545021057129] [/size]
[size=15.454545021057129]Dogs detecting scent of death, but does not place a time to when this death had taken place, so the defense could use this as an argument it could be from an other cadaver from unknown origin. Nor could the dogs tell you who died there. So technically it could come from unknown sources.until forensics could proof it belongs to madeleine.[/size]
[size=15.454545021057129] [/size]
[size=15.454545021057129]Telling porkies is also something you have to proof in court and what we think makes not the evidence for that. Don’t forget the accused does not have to prove his innocence.[/size]
[size=15.454545021057129] [/size]
[size=15.454545021057129]The sedation of the twins could be proven with a test, but it has to be done in a certain time frame and by a certain protocol before it can be used. Because the twins are minors, you have to get permission of the persons who are their legal guardian, in this case, both of the parents or you have to get a court order. If this lacks you could test what you like, or could get your hands on, but it would never be accepted before court.[/size]
[size=15.454545021057129] [/size]
[size=15.454545021057129]The problem with the smith sightings is that they have seen a unknown person and from what is out in the open, there is no convincing statement that they all are sure who this person is. From what is out, it would be more like a possible a lead then evidence.[/size]
[size=15.454545021057129] [/size]
[size=15.454545021057129]This is the reality in everyday policework and other investigations, without proof or hard evidence you are empty handed. The law is quite strict on procedures and protocols.[/size]
[size=15.454545021057129]Plus they are made from the basic rule that you are only guilty if this is proven before a court. For the heavier crimes there is even less room for interpretation of the evidence.[/size]
[size=15.454545021057129] [/size]
[size=15.454545021057129]From the above, you can not prove that madeleine is dead, but the same could be said for a live madeleine, but it is not likely she could be alive. It is worse, you can still not be sure what type of crime had happen out there. There is enough to conclude that a criminal act has to be involved, mostly because of madeleine’s age. There is still a very small chance she left on her own actions, but her complete vanishing is very much unlikely the result of that possibility. But still if they don’t have other evidence by now, it would still be a possible crime case. That makes it even harder to make use of certain ways to discover and gather evidence. A lot of the decision making about that is, in the hands of the cps and the judge. Let’s hope for a lot of guts there.[/size]
[size=15.454545021057129] [/size]
[size=15.454545021057129]The use of the word abduction could have indeed more then one meaning. But how much of the general public would know that or want to know that. the police knows, the judge knows. that is what matters more.[/size]
[size=15.454545021057129] [/size]
[size=15.454545021057129]There are very few crime cases that you really did not have a clue who did it, but there are a hole lot of cases, you know who did it , but were the evidence to prove it, is absent. what means no court and no conviction.[/size]
[size=15.454545021057129] [/size]
[size=15.454545021057129]The best chances to solve this case and bring it to court would be in finding the body or what is left of it. Not all trauma is visible on remains, and a lot depends of the state of the remaining body, but also the type of trauma, but it will change a lot of opinions and maybe people will do talking from that moment. For myself i am not that sure that there are remains left, that would still looks like a body, but even if such is the case there could be made mistakes and evidence from it.. The other solution could come from somebody who is willing to talk and has true knowledge from first hand of what has taken place. I still have some hope this case can be solved and brought before the portugese court.[/size]
[size=15.454545021057129] [/size]
[size=15.454545021057129]Until the investigation get’s there hands on just one part of hard and credible evidence, all other things and findings could not be enough to get a conviction. Most of these are also not to bind to a specific person. You can imagine that when this becomes a court case, the accused would have not to use a lousy lawyer, so everything has to be done by the book (of law!).[/size]
[size=15.454545021057129]It is often to risky that the judge rules a non guilty verdict, for the next chance to nail you're suspect down, you would need a lot more of complete fresh evidence. So it would be a one off chance.[/size]

edit: this mixing in of codes is not what i meant, but i can't change it!

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by AndyB on 19.03.14 7:42

Châtelaine wrote:
@onehand wrote: [...]
maybe hairs with corpse banding could help as first lead to also change your investigation to a dead person, but you have to investigate further until you found enough evidence that is coupled to a specific person in this case with enough other evidence.
you could say, hairs with a corpse banding gives a lead that at ant time before a dead body could have be present. but you won't know that it was the person you are looking fore, it could be there from some odd way of contamination. 

the same way like the use of the dogs, they bring leads, but the evidence have to come from confirming evidence, like forensics. 

[...]
***
Do I understand correctly, that when a child goes missing and top-EVRD & CSI dogs signal to cadaver and blood in their parent's rented apartment and rented car AND on top hair with corpse-banding would be found in same car, there would still be the burden of proving WHO'S corpse we're talking about ...?!

ETA I seem to have problems again with quotes ...  sad
When you deleted the text at the end of onehand's post, it looks like you also deleted the "[" before "/quote", which means that the software doesn't recognise it as a code[/quote]

ETA I had to add it in to get this to display properly

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by Woofer on 19.03.14 9:14

@ultimaThule wrote:
@Woofer wrote:
Woofer wrote:
ultimaThule wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:Is there anything in the world that the ROTHSCHILD's don't control or own....
They don't control or own me.   Other than those which grace my table, I'm hard pressed to think of any pies that the Rothschilds and the Oppenheimers haven't got their fingers in.

Eta maybe this is the reason Kate was keen to make it known that she is descended from Ashkenazi jews via her father's family?

Did she ???   and is she ???   I know its off topic, but just a quickie.
 I'll try to put this reply on another thread which mentioned haemophilia - but -was Googling haemophilia and discovered that although the usual H A and H B strains of it are extremely rare in females, unless you have a H father and a H carrier mother, a strain of it was confined to Ashkenazic Jews.



 Post referring to haemophilia possibility is JeanMonroe's post, at 12.34 today, on "Terminally McCanned" thread.

In her bewk, the devout Catholic says 'My father's line are a mix of Ashkenazim and Sephardic Jews, Woofer.As with every word that comes forth from the saintly one's gob mouth, this claim is best not taken as gospel and it occurs to me that, having exploited their the Scottish, Irish, Liverpudlian, and Catholic roots, mention of having descended from Ashkenazi and Sephardi jews - which effectively establishes a link, however tenuous, to the majority of the Jewish peoples of the world, merely ads another group to whom she can appeal for cash from those gullible souls who may feel obliged to put their hands in the pockets to aid a fellow countryman, so to speak.

I'm surprised we haven't heard about all those CofE, muslim, hindi, african, afro-Caribbean, gay, etc, lives she and her spouse saved during their years of selflessly slaving for the NHS.



 big grin   Thanks for that UT.

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by ultimaThule on 19.03.14 10:29

You're welcome, Woofer.  It's curious that 'there appears to have been an absence of 'grateful patient' stories; even that fellow passenger on one of Gerry's flights from Portugal back to the UK failed to make any public declaration of 'thanks for saving my life, Dr McCann' after the wee one resuscitated him at altitude, or whatever other procedure he performed to prevent the grim reaper from boarding the flight en route.

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by kimHager on 19.03.14 13:47

My belief is the markers in the dna sample really was most of the actual physical proof the PJ had and in diff countries they each recocognize an ammount that is submissable in court as proof of dna. I believe in portugal its 19 ,much higher than most countries. Now on this note im really not scientifically knowlegeable in dna, but in every sample that came back as possibly* madeleine's, only 15 of the markers was there and the rest was either to destroyed or inconclusive. In each sample though it was always 15 markers....i may be really slow here but not one sample or two but each one was the same which in most places would be a resounding YES to being hers. I believe the samples were sent to Birmingham for testing.Could the PJ have sent it to another lab and got the same results? I just didnt understand some of the report on the dna samples taken from 5a...what i am asking i guess is if they would have sent it elsewhere would results still be the same .

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by Guest on 19.03.14 16:35

@ultimaThule wrote:You're welcome, Woofer.  It's curious that 'there appears to have been an absence of 'grateful patient' stories; even that fellow passenger on one of Gerry's flights from Portugal back to the UK failed to make any public declaration of 'thanks for saving my life, Dr McCann' after the wee one resuscitated him at altitude, or whatever other procedure he performed to prevent the grim reaper from boarding the flight en route.

Indeed, Ut, it does seem peculiar how nobody ever comes forward to the gutterpress for a few extra quid. Tannerman, the guy on the plane, the drunk (we've all been there). Where are they now?

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by Praia on 19.03.14 16:52

Don't forget Silvia Batista, who appears to be a very credible eye witness that night, said the Payne's were hysterical. I have always wondered about their initial reaction.

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by Monty Heck on 19.03.14 20:39

@Praia wrote:Don't forget Silvia Batista, who appears to be a very credible eye witness that night, said the Payne's were hysterical. I have always wondered about their initial reaction.
Upset, anxious, concerned, agitated, ok - but hysteria about a just found to be missing child of friends, who could have turned up at any moment having simply wandered out of an unlocked and unattended apartment?  It would be expected that the parents and friends would be clinging to hope of a good outcome and, even if deeper misgivings are present these tend to be kept in check until the worst is known.  That is generally when the floodgates of emotion are released.  Yet here, when the worst was far from known the McCs and their closest friends on that trip, friends who both admitted to being in the apartment during the early part of the evening, had all simltaneously given up hope and given way to hysterics.  It would be natural for everyone in the group to be affected, to be upset but only the Paynes reported as notably hysterical amongst the parents' companions would doubtless have been quite some flag to investigators had the disappearance happened in the UK.

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by Guest on 19.03.14 20:42

@Monty Heck wrote: [...] It would be natural for everyone in the group to be affected, to be upset but only the Paynes reported as notably hysterical amongst the parents' companions would doubtless have been quite some flag to investigators had the disappearance happened in the UK.
***
Paynes IMO are red flags every which way around. IMO  yes 

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by Monty Heck on 19.03.14 20:54

Châtelaine wrote:
@Monty Heck wrote: [...] It would be natural for everyone in the group to be affected, to be upset but only the Paynes reported as notably hysterical amongst the parents' companions would doubtless have been quite some flag to investigators had the disappearance happened in the UK.
***
Paynes IMO are red flags every which way around. IMO  yes 
Unfortunately there seems to have been a huge benefit endowed courtesy of the language/cultural barrier.  The GNR seem to have put this sort of behaviour down to foreign eccentricity as well they might in such unusual and previously unexperienced circumstances, whereas British police would have been more alert the subtleties and nuances of the goup's behaviour.   The great pity is that these issues were not probed in the rogatory interviews but worst of all is SY, after reviewing this material appears to have failed to note or act on red flags such as these.

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by kimHager on 19.03.14 23:04

I too think the PJ upon witnessing a strange debacle of these vacationers probably thought the whole lot was off their rockers...i can only imagine..in my mind what they saw....TM falling down on their faces wailing ...then the paynes crying and yelling and then suddenly it all changes as a cell phone rings to which the wailing suddenly stops and they hear GM give a press conference.meanwhile KM abruptly starts demanding the priest and starts uding her fists and arms wailing on the beds smashing them up.meanwhile outside we supposedly have tapas members standing around waiting...on a signal perhaps..and JT starts telling everyone how she saw Tannerman/ pimpleman/ carrying a child off and in my mind i can see the PJ looking to andfro trying to figure it all out and the babies slept thru it all.
I have a hard time myself and if my child was missing the last thing id want was a three ring circus going on in my apartment much less be involved in the theatrics.Throw in the language barrier and erm...several hundred erms...and they were probably more confused than to start with.Then to top off everything GM makes the comment about all the confusion being a good thing..how on earth can you say that when your child has been abducted! Would you want mass confusion at a time when every second counts.That alone makes the abduction theory look sofake

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by bodiddly on 26.06.14 20:19

@Cristobell wrote:I don't get 'no evidence of an accident behind the sofa'.  It was not only Eddie, cadaver dog who alerted behind the sofa, so too did Keela, the blood detection dog.  Keela is not called in unless Eddie alerts first.  Minute traces of blood were found beneath the tiles where both dogs indicated.  In addition, the sofa was pushed back against the window, it had been moved to cover the 'spot'.  
forgive me if I am wrong but wouldn't a body need 45/60 minutes to omit cadaver odour.
If this is the case, then MM would have had to lie there for that time atleast. So that means she must have been unattended at that time doesn't it?

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by BlueBag on 26.06.14 21:13

There are absolutely no 45/60 min gaps in the time line.

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by Casey5 on 26.06.14 21:30

@BlueBag wrote:There are absolutely no 45/60 min gaps in the time line.

That's because there is no time line. It's a fictitious account, made up to try to fool people that they checked their kids every 5 minutes but nobody moved from the tapas bar. big grin

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by XTC on 26.06.14 23:35

@Casey5 wrote:
@BlueBag wrote:There are absolutely no 45/60 min gaps in the time line.

That's because there is no time line. It's a fictitious account, made up to try to fool people that they checked their kids every 5 minutes but nobody moved from the tapas bar. big grin
According to some Tapas staff witnesses two people moved from the table all night but the alert time is out of sync too I think.

JT told of a Baby Monitor that she took to the Tapas Bar but said didn't work. That means that two Baby Monitors were available that night
both working? If so if they were both working is it possible that all the children were split between two apartments where the monitors came from?

One very big alert in my opinion is the leaving open of doors. These are British holidaymakers who if they were dining in their back garden in Britain would not leave the front door to house unlocked whilst they dined. I am not certain but suspicious as to whether any doors were left unlocked in any apartment during the dining times at night. It's an instinct if you live in the Cities or Towns.

Just a thought though.

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by Ochosi on 27.06.14 0:26

That's the problem with the Tapas 9 statements and trying to figure out what actually happened. People keep referring back to x said this and this doesn't tally with y scenario etc etc. 
One is wasting that much time trying to work out where an untruth has been inserted, whether there is a truth amongst it etc, how does it work logically with these "facts" when the facts aren't just exaggerations or errors in recall, but outright misdirections - it's too far out from a starting point to unravel without an enormous amount of difficulty. In my esteemed, etc....

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by joyce1938 on 27.06.14 8:36

Yes it seems you could be right chioca,so much energy has been spent on this ,and it goes on and on ,and we get no closer to truth of what really took place that night .joyce1938

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Re: Terminally McCanned?

Post by canada12 on 27.06.14 9:05

Basically, as someone said elsewhere, you have to discount ALL of the statements from ALL of the Tapas friends and Kate and Gerry about anything to do with that night, as well as anything to do with Madeleine that week. IMO none of their statements are reliable, and none can be counted on to give us or the police any basis of any kind of truth.

What are we left with, if we can't rely on anyone's statements?

A search for impartial witnesses. And how do we find those?

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