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3 new Lazzeri-lies . .

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Re: 3 new Lazzeri-lies . .

Post by Guest on 11.03.14 10:18

@HelenMeg wrote:
@Jemmied_Shatter wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:I think it a plausible theory that Madeleine saw something she wasn't supposed to see - between DP and Kate. Why the need for DP to
not recall what K was wearing.?  She had previously jogged by Paraiso where DP and others were. She went back to apartment and had shower.
DP saw her jog and left Paraiso at around 6:30 going straight to see K at apartment for a quick rendez-vous.

It is just not normal for a man to go and visit a woman to help her with the kids - not when there are 4 couples.

HelenMeg this is regarded in certain circles as "normal". Just as for example your own children, probably have a fave "Uncle" who "Twizzles" them after they have been in the bath. I got banned for daring to say otherwise using a more plausible theory.
 new  new  new  new 
KM is the one who will crack eventually, especially when she gets a letter from her children's school.
 drama 
In certain circles I can imagine it may well be regarded as normal.  Swinging circles,perhaps. Not ordinary families, I can assure you.

But he didn't go there to help her with the kids or for a quickie .
He most likely didn't go there at all.
This visit was an afterthought, not mentioned in any of the earlier statements.
Only when they needed a witness for Maddie being alive and well on the Thursday evening because they were under suspicion did DPs visit suddenly materialise. The whole thing made even more ridiculous because they couldn't even get their stories straight. imo.

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Re: 3 new Lazzeri-lies . .

Post by frost on 11.03.14 10:22

@Watching wrote:
@frost wrote:in what context is the word twizzle being used there was an icecream of the name twizzle and  in the UK there was one called twizzler many moons ago not sure if they still make them but my kids went mad for them at the time . 

To me on reading the first post its sounds like he is refferring to buying an ice cream or two .


Lifting Maddie and spinning her around
  

Hi can anyone point me to where I can read the original of where he says twizzle tbh its an odd word to use and ive never heard it used in this context in the UK before my kids have been spun round by  family /friends etc not once have I heard the term twizzle or twizzling unless its a north south divide thing . But as I pointed out there were ice creams available of that name and without reading the original and just reading what was written in the first post the first thing that came to my mind was he was reffering to buying her and icecream

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Re: 3 new Lazzeri-lies . .

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 11.03.14 10:23

@frost wrote:
Hi can anyone point me to where I can read the original of where he says twizzle tbh its an odd word to use and ive never heard it used in this context in the UK before my kids have been spun round by  family /friends etc not once have I heard the term twizzle or twizzling unless its a north south divide thing . But as I pointed out there were ice creams available of that name and without reading the original and just reading what was written in the first post the first thing that came to my mind was he was reffering to buying her and icecream

I've both heard of the word, and 'twizzled' my children :)

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Re: 3 new Lazzeri-lies . .

Post by Guest on 11.03.14 10:31

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=twizzle

We live and learn.

I don't think I've heard the word before in any of its many contexts.

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Re: 3 new Lazzeri-lies . .

Post by Guest on 11.03.14 10:35

I've never heard a scouser say it, so it would be odd for KM to use that terminology. In fact I've never heard anyone say it, other than in reference to those nasty things they were giving kids for school dinners ie 'turkey' twizzlers.

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Re: 3 new Lazzeri-lies . .

Post by Watching on 11.03.14 10:39

@frost wrote:
@Watching wrote:
@frost wrote:in what context is the word twizzle being used there was an icecream of the name twizzle and  in the UK there was one called twizzler many moons ago not sure if they still make them but my kids went mad for them at the time . 

To me on reading the first post its sounds like he is refferring to buying an ice cream or two .


Lifting Maddie and spinning her around
  

Hi can anyone point me to where I can read the original of where he says twizzle tbh its an odd word to use and ive never heard it used in this context in the UK before my kids have been spun round by  family /friends etc not once have I heard the term twizzle or twizzling unless its a north south divide thing . But as I pointed out there were ice creams available of that name and without reading the original and just reading what was written in the first post the first thing that came to my mind was he was reffering to buying her and icecream
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id251.html

payne interview



[size=13.333333969116211]"You know I, you know I did know the children very well, we’d all you know, met up many times before err you know I, you know again I’d be playing with Madeleine you know in the, err the play area err you know during that week, you know lifting her up, twizzing her round and everything, I knew her that well, you know, to do that, and as I say err she’d definitely know who I was and certainly, as I say, just to reinforce that she looked very happy.”"[/size]

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Re: 3 new Lazzeri-lies . .

Post by Nina on 11.03.14 10:43

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
@frost wrote:
Hi can anyone point me to where I can read the original of where he says twizzle tbh its an odd word to use and ive never heard it used in this context in the UK before my kids have been spun round by  family /friends etc not once have I heard the term twizzle or twizzling unless its a north south divide thing . But as I pointed out there were ice creams available of that name and without reading the original and just reading what was written in the first post the first thing that came to my mind was he was reffering to buying her and icecream

I've both heard of the word, and 'twizzled' my children :)
I have heard and used the word 'twizzle' as to mean to spin around, I am from Yorkshire as is hubby and he said the same, to turn quickly.

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Re: 3 new Lazzeri-lies . .

Post by frost on 11.03.14 10:45

Thanks watching that does make sense now I see he uses the word twizzing  rather than twizzle

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Re: 3 new Lazzeri-lies . .

Post by unchained melody on 11.03.14 10:47

chilli wrote:I've never heard a scouser say it, so it would be odd for KM to use that terminology. In fact I've never heard anyone say it, other than in reference to those nasty things they were giving kids for school dinners ie 'turkey' twizzlers.

David Payne said it, from his rogatory interview:

”Err oh yeah, you know I’m very sure that if you’d have asked them, you know that evening or the next day they’d all say ah yeah, I popped in. You know I, you know I did know the children very well, we’d all you know, met up many times before err you know I, you know again I’d be playing with Madeleine you know in the, err the play area err you know during that week, you know lifting her up, twizzing her round and everything, I knew her that well, you know, to do that, and as I say err she’d definitely know who I was and certainly, as I say, just to reinforce that she looked very happy.”


ETA, sorry posting at the sime time!

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Re: 3 new Lazzeri-lies . .

Post by Woofer on 11.03.14 10:49

From Wiki :

A twizzle is a multirotational one-foot turn in figure skating.[1] It was first performed by David Grant in 1991. The twizzle is most commonly seen in ice dancing, where it appears in a number of compulsory dances and is a required element of step sequences in the short dance, original dance and free dance.[1] A twizzle is also common in synchronized skating where it is also a required element of step sequences.
A twizzle differs from a figure skating spin in that it travels across the ice instead of being centered in one spot. It also differs from a series of three turns in that the turning action is continuous.
Twizzles can be performed both forward and backward, on both inside and outside edges, and both clockwise and counterclockwise.[1] Twizzles are most commonly performed in an upright position with the free foot held close to the skating leg, but other variants are possible as well, such as a twizzle in a sit spin position.

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Re: 3 new Lazzeri-lies . .

Post by Woofer on 11.03.14 10:53

It seems DP meant to say `twizzle` by said `twizzing`.

Don`t like the thought of anyone other than parents `manhandling` kids - shudder, shiver, yukky woo

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Re: 3 new Lazzeri-lies . .

Post by frost on 11.03.14 10:57

@Nina wrote:
@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
@frost wrote:
Hi can anyone point me to where I can read the original of where he says twizzle tbh its an odd word to use and ive never heard it used in this context in the UK before my kids have been spun round by  family /friends etc not once have I heard the term twizzle or twizzling unless its a north south divide thing . But as I pointed out there were ice creams available of that name and without reading the original and just reading what was written in the first post the first thing that came to my mind was he was reffering to buying her and icecream

I've both heard of the word, and 'twizzled' my children :)
I have heard and used the word 'twizzle' as to mean to spin around, I am from Yorkshire as is hubby and he said the same, to turn quickly.


@ Nina im a tyke too but ive never heard the term used when reffering to picking up a child and spinning them around , however on reading the original he uses the word twizzing  similar but not quite the same , I only queried it as I say as I remember the icecreams  that were called twizzle and twizzler here in UK which if the quote treating her to a twizzle or two had been correct im sure a good defense lawyer could have easily used  the icecream of the same name as what he was reffering to however as he uses the word 'twizzing '  which obviously could not be mistaken for an icecream .

It jsut shows how things can get distorted easily if they are not quoted correctly thanks for the replies everyone

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Re: 3 new Lazzeri-lies . .

Post by Woofer on 11.03.14 11:22

@ Jemmied shatter - Your passionate words on protecting children are shared by most here I`m sure, but we cannot go making accusatory statements.

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Re: 3 new Lazzeri-lies . .

Post by Guest on 11.03.14 11:27

@frost wrote:
@Nina wrote:
@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
@frost wrote:
Hi can anyone point me to where I can read the original of where he says twizzle tbh its an odd word to use and ive never heard it used in this context in the UK before my kids have been spun round by  family /friends etc not once have I heard the term twizzle or twizzling unless its a north south divide thing . But as I pointed out there were ice creams available of that name and without reading the original and just reading what was written in the first post the first thing that came to my mind was he was reffering to buying her and icecream

I've both heard of the word, and 'twizzled' my children :)
I have heard and used the word 'twizzle' as to mean to spin around, I am from Yorkshire as is hubby and he said the same, to turn quickly.


@ Nina im a tyke too but ive never heard the term used when reffering to picking up a child and spinning them around , however on reading the original he uses the word twizzing  similar but not quite the same , I only queried it as I say as I remember the icecreams  that were called twizzle and twizzler here in UK which if the quote treating her to a twizzle or two had been correct im sure a good defense lawyer could have easily used  the icecream of the same name as what he was reffering to however as he uses the word 'twizzing '  which obviously could not be mistaken for an icecream .

It jsut shows how things can get distorted easily if they are not quoted correctly thanks for the replies everyone

Another one here from God's Own County  Mrs  

I haven't heard the term twizzle before either.

In my experience, baths tend to be part of the winding down process leading to bedtime so a favourite "Uncle" who disrupts that bedtime routine making a previously calm and relaxed child over-excited by "twizzling" them is not going to be popular with parents.

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Re: 3 new Lazzeri-lies . .

Post by Jemmied_Shatter on 11.03.14 11:41

@Woofer wrote:@ Jemmied shatter - Your passionate words on protecting children are shared by most here I`m sure, but we cannot go making accusatory statements.

I am not accusing anybody of anything. It is a very serious observation that I cannot and I know Social Services will not ignore. Any suggestion of inappropriate behavour with children (Gasper Statements) is a genuine cause for concern. Now on top of this you have a little girl who is missing, a unmistakable tissue of lies surrounding the circumstances, the red flags of alarm as published on this site by the great Peter Mac this surely is a time for responsible action that cannot be scuppered by money or a team of lawyers. Maybe, just maybe Social Services can knock the door in where the PJ and SY through political influences have so far failed.
 youaretheman youaretheman youaretheman 

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Re: 3 new Lazzeri-lies . .

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 11.03.14 11:53

@Jemmied_Shatter wrote:
I am not accusing anybody of anything. It is a very serious observation that I cannot and I know Social Services will not ignore. Any suggestion of inappropriate behavour with children (Gasper Statements) is a genuine cause for concern. Now on top of this you have a little girl who is missing, a unmistakable tissue of lies surrounding the circumstances, the red flags of alarm as published on this site by the great Peter Mac this surely is a time for responsible action that cannot be scuppered by money or a team of lawyers. Maybe, just maybe Social Services can knock the door in where the PJ and SY through political influences have so far failed.

On the contrary, you made some very serious allegations. And could you reign the emoticons back please, I find them very distracting. Let your posts speak for themselves instead.

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Re: 3 new Lazzeri-lies . .

Post by Guest on 11.03.14 12:01

Jemmied_Shatter, warning not to post anything which may be libellous.

Please tone your posts down

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Re: 3 new Lazzeri-lies . .

Post by Woofer on 11.03.14 12:07

@Jemmied_Shatter wrote:
@Woofer wrote:@ Jemmied shatter - Your passionate words on protecting children are shared by most here I`m sure, but we cannot go making accusatory statements.

I am not accusing anybody of anything. It is a very serious observation that I cannot and I know Social Services will not ignore. Any suggestion of inappropriate behavour with children (Gasper Statements) is a genuine cause for concern. Now on top of this you have a little girl who is missing, a unmistakable tissue of lies surrounding the circumstances, the red flags of alarm as published on this site by the great Peter Mac this surely is a time for responsible action that cannot be scuppered by money or a team of lawyers. Maybe, just maybe Social Services can knock the door in where the PJ and SY through political influences have so far failed.
 
Yep, please give over with the emoticons - they really distract, rather than enhance, what you`re posting.  And yes, all the red flags are there, but I`m sure Yvonne Martin?, who worked for SS would have made enquiries and if relevent, passed on to the authorities.  Also there must be loads of social workers who have sussed what`s going on and done investigations.  Maybe I`m just assuming that `someone else is bound to do it` but I`m sure all the relevent authorities are aware of all these red flags.  Lots of people send them information.

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Re: 3 new Lazzeri-lies . .

Post by Guest on 11.03.14 12:18

Poe wrote:
@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
@Jemmied_Shatter wrote:
HelenMeg this is regarded in certain circles as "normal". Just as for example your own children, probably have a fave "Uncle" who "Twizzles" them after they have been in the bath. I got banned for daring to say otherwise using a more plausible theory.
 new  new  new  new 
KM is the one who will crack eventually, especially when she gets a letter from her children's school.
 drama 

No, it's not normal.  I have a daughter, there is no man on Earth that I would have ever let bathe her, not even my brother.

I'm with you on this whatliesbehindthesofa, I don't have a brother but I have a brother-in-law who I love to bits and trust completely but there's no way he'd be allow to bathe my son ...especially if he offered.

Agree.  I have a three year old and the only people I would let bathe her are myself and her father (and him only because he has shown that he can be trusted).  And my mother if she had to (as she is arthritic I wouldn't ask!).  I would not DREAM of letting anyone else and no-one I know with similarly-aged young children would do either.  Absoulutely not.  And absolutely not my brother or sister - sorry if that sounds paranoid but I really have no reason to trust them more than a stranger.

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Re: 3 new Lazzeri-lies . .

Post by HelenMeg on 11.03.14 12:37

dantezebu wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:
@Jemmied_Shatter wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:I think it a plausible theory that Madeleine saw something she wasn't supposed to see - between DP and Kate. Why the need for DP to
not recall what K was wearing.?  She had previously jogged by Paraiso where DP and others were. She went back to apartment and had shower.
DP saw her jog and left Paraiso at around 6:30 going straight to see K at apartment for a quick rendez-vous.

It is just not normal for a man to go and visit a woman to help her with the kids - not when there are 4 couples.

HelenMeg this is regarded in certain circles as "normal". Just as for example your own children, probably have a fave "Uncle" who "Twizzles" them after they have been in the bath. I got banned for daring to say otherwise using a more plausible theory.
 new  new  new  new 
KM is the one who will crack eventually, especially when she gets a letter from her children's school.
 drama 
In certain circles I can imagine it may well be regarded as normal.  Swinging circles,perhaps. Not ordinary families, I can assure you.

But he didn't go there to help her with the kids or for a quickie .
He most likely didn't go there at all.
This visit was an afterthought, not mentioned in any of the earlier statements.
Only when they needed a witness for Maddie being alive and well on the Thursday evening because they were under suspicion did DPs visit suddenly materialise. The whole thing made even more ridiculous because they couldn't even get their stories straight. imo.
Well, I dont  see how you can state that he did not go there. None of us know that. I believe he did go there in order to swing with K and that is when the accident occurred. When M saw something that she should not have seen.  This is the theory I believe.  It is only a theory.

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Re: 3 new Lazzeri-lies . .

Post by noddy100 on 11.03.14 12:38

Supposing she had witnessed something?
Surely that wouldn't be enough reason to suspect something happened as a result?

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Re: 3 new Lazzeri-lies . .

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 11.03.14 12:50

I believe that Fiona Payne went to visit Kate at 5A at around 7pm, and was there for a while.

Dianne Webster's statement of 4th May 2007:

'Concerning the day yesterday, she went to the beach with the children, her son-in-law and her daughter. They arrived there at around 15h45 and left at around 18h15 to go to the tennis courts where she stayed until 19h00. The informant then went to the apartment with the small children and ten minutes later, her son-in-law, David, joined them. With her son-in-law's help, they bathed the children.'

DW says that she went to the apartment with the kids, and 10 minutes later DP joined them.  No mention of Fiona at all.  And it doesn't take three people to bathe some children.

DW's statement is very specific. 'The informant then went to the apartment with the small children'. Where was Fiona?

I've said before that my theory is that this time is when all three children were sedated, and possibly overdosed.  I believe that David Payne's later story that he went to the apartment was to cover for his wife's presence there.

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Re: 3 new Lazzeri-lies . .

Post by Guest on 11.03.14 13:10

@HelenMeg wrote:
dantezebu wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:
@Jemmied_Shatter wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:I think it a plausible theory that Madeleine saw something she wasn't supposed to see - between DP and Kate. Why the need for DP to
not recall what K was wearing.?  She had previously jogged by Paraiso where DP and others were. She went back to apartment and had shower.
DP saw her jog and left Paraiso at around 6:30 going straight to see K at apartment for a quick rendez-vous.

It is just not normal for a man to go and visit a woman to help her with the kids - not when there are 4 couples.

HelenMeg this is regarded in certain circles as "normal". Just as for example your own children, probably have a fave "Uncle" who "Twizzles" them after they have been in the bath. I got banned for daring to say otherwise using a more plausible theory.
 new  new  new  new 
KM is the one who will crack eventually, especially when she gets a letter from her children's school.
 drama 
In certain circles I can imagine it may well be regarded as normal.  Swinging circles,perhaps. Not ordinary families, I can assure you.

But he didn't go there to help her with the kids or for a quickie .
He most likely didn't go there at all.
This visit was an afterthought, not mentioned in any of the earlier statements.
Only when they needed a witness for Maddie being alive and well on the Thursday evening because they were under suspicion did DPs visit suddenly materialise. The whole thing made even more ridiculous because they couldn't even get their stories straight. imo.
Well, I dont  see how you can state that he did not go there. None of us know that. I believe he did go there in order to swing with K and that is when the accident occurred. When M saw something that she should not have seen.  This is the theory I believe.  It is only a theory.

This is the first description of the visit by DP:

"He states that he saw Madeleine, for the last time, at 5 pm on the 3rd of May, 2007, in the McCanns' apartment. Kate and Gerry were equally present then. He did not state the reason why he was in the apartment at that time, or what they were doing. He does not state for how long he stayed there, either."

In a letter from DC Mike Marshall of LP to Ricardo Pavia on the 24th October 2007.

Compare this version to his later ones and KMs version.
"Kate and Gerry were equally present then"
Incidentally this was the letter with the Gaspars statements attached.
Seen by the PJ for the first time although the statements were given on the 16th May 2007.

Sometimes I think that it wasn't the MCs that were being protected but DP.

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Re: 3 new Lazzeri-lies . .

Post by Watching on 11.03.14 13:57

Poe wrote:
@frost wrote:
@Nina wrote:
@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
@frost wrote:
Hi can anyone point me to where I can read the original of where he says twizzle tbh its an odd word to use and ive never heard it used in this context in the UK before my kids have been spun round by  family /friends etc not once have I heard the term twizzle or twizzling unless its a north south divide thing . But as I pointed out there were ice creams available of that name and without reading the original and just reading what was written in the first post the first thing that came to my mind was he was reffering to buying her and icecream

I've both heard of the word, and 'twizzled' my children :)
I have heard and used the word 'twizzle' as to mean to spin around, I am from Yorkshire as is hubby and he said the same, to turn quickly.


@ Nina im a tyke too but ive never heard the term used when reffering to picking up a child and spinning them around , however on reading the original he uses the word twizzing  similar but not quite the same , I only queried it as I say as I remember the icecreams  that were called twizzle and twizzler here in UK which if the quote treating her to a twizzle or two had been correct im sure a good defense lawyer could have easily used  the icecream of the same name as what he was reffering to however as he uses the word 'twizzing '  which obviously could not be mistaken for an icecream .

It jsut shows how things can get distorted easily if they are not quoted correctly thanks for the replies everyone

Another one here from God's Own County  Mrs  

I haven't heard the term twizzle before either.

In my experience, baths tend to be part of the winding down process leading to bedtime so a favourite "Uncle" who disrupts that bedtime routine making a previously calm and relaxed child over-excited by "twizzling" them is not going to be popular with parents.


what a twizzle this is turning out to be. lol   Payne didn't say he twizzed or twizzled at bath time it was at the tennis courts when he played games with the children

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Re: 3 new Lazzeri-lies . .

Post by jeanmonroe on 11.03.14 14:05

To: Ricard Paiva
From: DC 1756 Mike MARSHALL
Ref: David Payne
Date: October 24, 2007

Leicester Police Constabulary

Ricardo,

As requested, appended are the statements of Arul and Katherina Gaspar.


"I read carefully the written document/questionnaire provided by David Payne."
but was not able to extricate any other information besides what is already known. He declares that he saw Madeleine, for the last time, at 17H00 on 3/5/07 in the McCann apartment. Also present there were Kate and Gerry. He did not indicate the motive for being there or what he was doing. He also cannot indicate how long he stayed.

When asked with whom he was on the afternoon of May 3rd, he declares that this information was already offered to the police and cannot remember if anyone else was there.

He does not remember what he was wearing that afternoon.

He took part in the searches, having carried out most of them alone. He was at times accompanied by Matthew Oldfield.

He did not partake in the searches realized on the 4th of May, because, on this day, he spent to majority of time in the police headquarters.

For many questions, he does not give a complete response, affirming simply that he has already given this information to the Portuguese police in his declarations.

I examined once again the declarations of Fiona Payne. In her depositions, she states that she went to the McCann apartment, around 19H00, on the 3rd of May, together with Kate. She states afterwards that, 10 minutes later, the husband arrived; it is not clear which husband she refers to.

Her responses to the questions are vague. She continued to respond to questions with "they conform with my earlier deposition" or some similar statement.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

He declares that he saw Madeleine, for the last time, at 17H00 on 3/5/07 in the McCann apartment.
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DP must have 20/20 vision!

He was at the beach at 17H00 (5 o'clock pm)

Must have 'borrowed' J Tanner's 'eagle eyes'!

She who saw the front of 'abductors' jacket was fastened by a zipper!

(although she did NOT see a front view but only caught a 1 second sideways view/'glance')

But she did see the 'abductor's' SEMI formal brogue shoes!

She, who GM/KM have both signed truthful statements that she 'saw' the 'abduction' from a distance of FIFTY (50) METRES!

jeanmonroe

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