The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Hi,

A very warm welcome to The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ forum.

Please log in, or register to view all the forums, then settle in and start chatting with us!

Enjoy your day,

Jill Havern
Forum owner

Mikaeel Kular

Page 6 of 34 Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7 ... 20 ... 34  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Mikaeel Kular

Post by Tony Bennett on 17.01.14 10:59

@PeterMac wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
I have apologised to those parents for having questioned their account of events.
Yes, but which account ?  
As I remember there were several, and the number has been increasing ever since.
The parents even had different accounts at the start, one of them famously two different accounts on his own, until it got co-ordinated by someone else.

I think, PeterMac, it may be legitimate to list different accounts given by parents of a missing child and witnesses that either support those different accounts or give differing accounts themselves.

But what it appears is not allowed (in certain cases) is to publicly draw any inferences from those differences.

Unless of course you are former Detective Inspector Dave Edgar who can and did say: "Well, of course, you always get inconsistencies when witnesses try to recall what happened".

Has Interpol been alerted yet in this case? - in the event of the police having reacted too slowly and maybe allowed the abductor to escape over the border, or on a yacht to Australia with her new mother?

____________________

                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


Tony Bennett
Researcher/Moderator

Posts : 13957
Reputation : 2141
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 69
Location : Harlow, Essex

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Mikaeel Kular

Post by Tony Bennett on 17.01.14 11:06

@Mirage wrote:

 Kate will probably bring out out a compendium of accounts if we wait long enough.  

What in fact she brought out was a composite of many accounts, not a compendium.

David Payne's account of a visit where he strolled in through the open patio door, sat down and stayed for many minutes, admiring Kate and her angelic children, maybe for up to half an hour - and Kate's wholly contradictory 'I was in the shower, he knocked on the door, I sent him away 30 seconds later - have elegantly been bundled up by Kate into one harmonious paragraph on page 67 of 'madeleine'.

Indeed, you could argue that whole sections of the book amount to a composition consisting of a compendium of composite accounts of contradictions...

____________________

                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


Tony Bennett
Researcher/Moderator

Posts : 13957
Reputation : 2141
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 69
Location : Harlow, Essex

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Mikaeel Kular

Post by PeterMac on 17.01.14 11:08

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
I have apologised to those parents for having questioned their account of events.
Yes, but which account ?  
As I remember there were several, and the number has been increasing ever since.
The parents even had different accounts at the start, one of them famously two different accounts on his own, until it got co-ordinated by someone else.

I think, PeterMac, it may be legitimate to list different accounts given by parents of a missing child and witnesses that either support those different accounts or give differing accounts themselves.

But what it appears is not allowed (in certain cases) is to publicly draw any inferences from those differences.

Unless of course you are former Detective Inspector Dave Edgar who can and did say: "Well, of course, you always get inconsistencies when witnesses try to recall what happened".

Has Interpol been alerted yet in this case? - in the event of the police having reacted too slowly and maybe allowed the abductor to escape over the border, or on a yacht to Australia with her new mother?

Which makes life very difficult.
If I say Gerry said he entered the apartment by the front door "using his key"
AND
the he said he entered the apartment via the patio door which "was unlocked"
(both of which, Kevin, are on the record, in signed statements )
there is surely no need to spell out the inference that one or other, or possibly both is untrue.
It is a simple corollary. It follows a priori.
Only McJustice would hold that this was punishable by imprisonment.

____________________


PeterMac
Researcher

Posts : 10170
Reputation : 143
Join date : 2010-12-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Mikaeel Kular

Post by jeanmonroe on 17.01.14 11:10

Of NO 'inference, relevance or implications' to this case at all.

Just statistics.

NSPCC
•On average, every week in England and Wales one child is killed at the hands of another person.

•On average, 52 children in England and Wales are killed at the hands of another person every year.

•Over two thirds of children killed at the hands of another person in England and Wales are aged under five years.

•Infants aged under one year are more at risk of being killed at the hands of another person than any other single year age group in England and Wales.

•Every ten days in England and Wales one child is killed at the hands of their parent. In over two thirds (67% on average) of all cases of children killed at the hands of another person, the parent is the principal suspect.

The term ‘homicide’ covers the offences of murder, manslaughter and infanticide.

The term 'parent' is defined as a biological parent, step parent, adopted parent of the victim or the resident or non resident partner of the victim's parent.

Child homicides statistics

March 2013.

jeanmonroe

Posts : 5129
Reputation : 883
Join date : 2013-02-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Mikaeel Kular

Post by Daisy on 17.01.14 11:23

A former neighbour claims on a previous occasion the children may have been left home alone. That sets massive alarm bells ringing for me.

Miss Kular, a dance music fan, described herself on an online profile as ‘just me, myself and I ...oh yeah, with a brood of five monsters, six if you count the man indoors!’

A former neighbour claimed the children may have once been left alone at home when Miss Kular’s former husband was due to pick them up for the day.

Patricia Kilpatrick, 72, said: ‘He had come to take the kids on a Sunday but he couldn’t get them from inside the house.

She had gone out for the night and hadn’t come home so they were there in the house by themselves. Soon after that the police arrived to sort out everything.’


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2541111/Police-continue-search-Edinburgh-toddler-Mikaeel-Kular.html


____________________
“Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.”   

Unknown


“And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.” 

Friedrich Nietzsche

Daisy

Posts : 1245
Reputation : 4
Join date : 2011-06-15
Location : Yorkshire, England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Mikaeel Kular

Post by sofieellis on 17.01.14 11:24

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Upsy Daisy wrote:Evening TB. Was watching superintendant's face/eyes for anything to suggest they had an inkling.  What do you think happened based on statements released so far?

I have called out two obvious lies in this case.

I had better not go any further, as I've been told I may go to prison for having, in the past, continually questioned what the parents of another missing child have said about their child's disappearance.

I have apologised to those parents for having questioned their account of events.

Tony, I have twins, who were definitely capable of fully dressing themselves when they were 3. They started nursery the week of their 3rd birthday and could fully dress themselves when thet started. Twins tend to learn to be independant quickly, as it's impossible to see to both of them at the same time, so they learn to do it for themselves.

Having said that, I'm pretty confidant that my twins would not have been able to open that security door by themselves as it looks too heavy and they would have had to reach the button on the wall and the door at the same time (between them, they would probably have had a go, but not on their own).

sofieellis

Posts : 184
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-10-16

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Mikaeel Kular

Post by Daisy on 17.01.14 11:31

@suzyjohnson wrote:Do you think his mother could have left the children alone for the afternoon / evening and he disappeared earlier in the day? I would like to know how old the other children are, did one of them take him out and then lose him? 

It does sound very suspicious that he slept on his own just on the night he vanished. It would be quite difficult to hide anything going on from four other children in the same house.

Praying we have good news about this little boy tomorrow, but it's starting to look less and less likely
That sounds like a strong possibility after reading the former neighbours account. (see my last post end of p13).

____________________
“Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.”   

Unknown


“And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.” 

Friedrich Nietzsche

Daisy

Posts : 1245
Reputation : 4
Join date : 2011-06-15
Location : Yorkshire, England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Mikaeel Kular

Post by PeterMac on 17.01.14 11:33

We are being asked to believe that a three year old (do we know 'just 3' or 'nearly 4' by the way) could see far enough into the future and be sufficiently conscious of the weather conditions and forecast, to select his hooded coat, outdoor trousers, shoes and gloves, put them all on properly, then open the front door of the apartment, and then the front door to the stair well, all without being heard, seen, or in any other way detected, and then to step out into the freezing Scottish January night and to vanish . . . ?
Really ?

____________________


PeterMac
Researcher

Posts : 10170
Reputation : 143
Join date : 2010-12-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Mikaeel Kular

Post by ChippyM on 17.01.14 11:40

“[Mikaeel's mother] is a quiet lady but she obviously protects the kids from the outside because they don’t get out very often.”
Officers have urged anyone with information on his whereabouts or who think they may have seen them to contact them.
..........

“There were sniffer dogs in the area as well going through the bushes.
“I hope he gets found.”
Frank Arthur, 72, a retired project manager who lives in the flat above the Kular family, said:  ”I’ve seen the little lad and his sister playing around downstairs in the stairwell. They don’t seem to go out a lot."

http://swns.com/news/mikaeel-kular-missing-fears-grow-scottish-boy-3-disappearance-43199/

 The kids not going out much leads me to consider a variety of not very positive things. If the kid did go out by himself he wouldn't have much awareness of his surroundings at all. This is looking less and less positive the longer it goes on.

 I also wonder what the sniffer dogs found, could they not start a trail from his door  - or does it not work like that and have I been watching too many films?

ChippyM

Posts : 908
Reputation : 127
Join date : 2013-06-15

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Mikaeel Kular

Post by aiyoyo on 17.01.14 11:47

@Mirage wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
I have apologised to those parents for having questioned their account of events.
Yes, but which account ?  
As I remember there were several, and the number has been increasing ever since.
The parents even had different accounts at the start, one of them famously two different accounts on his own, until it got co-ordinated by someone else.

Kate will probably bring out out a compendium of accounts if we wait long enough.  

So far we have been told the window wide open and whooshing curtains account, and a tiny window of opportunity said Kate because snatcher had glimpsed the reservation book left to public view stating they were leaving their children alone every night of the holiday; followed by this story 3 burglars came to do the job on the 3rd when surveillance was stepped up. Brilliant innit !

She even fibbed that reservation book was amongst released files when it wasn't (very suspect as no one else has seen it); going to the braze neck extent of saying staff noted them "leaving their children alone" comment on it, when she knows she won't be challenged on her lies. Well, NOT yet.

aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 318
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Mikaeel Kular

Post by suep on 17.01.14 11:51

@PeterMac wrote:We are being asked to believe that a three year old (do we know 'just 3' or 'nearly 4' by the way) could see far enough into the future and be sufficiently conscious of the weather conditions and forecast, to select his hooded coat, outdoor trousers, shoes and gloves, put them all on properly, then open the front door of the apartment, and then the front door to the stair well, all without being heard, seen, or in any other way detected, and then to step out into the freezing Scottish January night and to vanish . . . ?  
Really ?

I agree. PeterMac, there are an awful lot of questions going begging here. Sky are just reporting that six non-uniformed police officers have just entered the flat carrying what looked like black computer bags.The reporter seems to think that is a significant change.
I'm not sure why it was necessary to 'let' the child sleep alone in his bedroom simply because he was ill. I wonder just how ill he was.
And the report, if true, that his mother once left them alone all night, only returning in the morning is very worrying. How old, I wonder, is the eldest child?
I'm afraid things are looking very bad for this little boy.

suep

Posts : 161
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2013-12-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Mikaeel Kular

Post by sofieellis on 17.01.14 11:52

@suep wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:We are being asked to believe that a three year old (do we know 'just 3' or 'nearly 4' by the way) could see far enough into the future and be sufficiently conscious of the weather conditions and forecast, to select his hooded coat, outdoor trousers, shoes and gloves, put them all on properly, then open the front door of the apartment, and then the front door to the stair well, all without being heard, seen, or in any other way detected, and then to step out into the freezing Scottish January night and to vanish . . . ?  
Really ?

I agree. PeterMac, there are an awful lot of questions going begging here. Sky are just reporting that six non-uniformed police officers have just entered the flat carrying what looked like black computer bags.The reporter seems to think that is a significant change.
I'm not sure why it was necessary to 'let' the child sleep alone in his bedroom simply because he was ill. I wonder just how ill he was.
And the report, if true, that his mother once left them alone all night, only returning in the morning is very worrying. How old, I wonder, is the eldest child?
I'm afraid things are looking very bad for this little boy.


It's been reported that the eldest child is 8 and the youngest is a baby.

sofieellis

Posts : 184
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-10-16

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Mikaeel Kular

Post by Hopespringseternal on 17.01.14 12:00

http://news.sky.com/story/1196614/missing-mikaeel-could-not-have-left-alone


Now we have another ex-detective/PI looking for 5 minutes of fame and suggesting 'professional abduction'. Yes, the forensics officers can perhaps have prints off the front door  (a child's hand clawing at the door, I ask you, emotive or what!) but can they say when they were made? I know from the doors in our house that the kids handprints were always in the same place and, unless I cleaned them off every day, would be there for days and,  blushing1 , weeks at a time. I know some blocks in Edinburgh have cleaners in weekly to do the communal areas (sprog MKI), but maybe not here.

Hopespringseternal

Posts : 50
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-10-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Mikaeel Kular

Post by aiyoyo on 17.01.14 12:04

@PeterMac wrote:We are being asked to believe that a three year old (do we know 'just 3' or 'nearly 4' by the way) could see far enough into the future and be sufficiently conscious of the weather conditions and forecast, to select his hooded coat, outdoor trousers, shoes and gloves, put them all on properly, then open the front door of the apartment, and then the front door to the stair well, all without being heard, seen, or in any other way detected, and then to step out into the freezing Scottish January night and to vanish . . . ?  
Really ?

Very hard to believe account, especially considering we were told he was left to sleep alone that night since he was ill, when he usually shares a room with his twin.

 The deviation from routine immediately raises alarm bells.
You'd think the other twin would be the one left to sleep alone, while the poorly child sleeps with the mum.

Nearly '4' or just '3' is old enough for his twin to tell the Police what happened  if asked; and a child never lie.

Remember Madeleine could read Harry Porter at that age, apparently she spoke eloquently, and could give anyone the comeuppance.

aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 318
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Mikaeel Kular

Post by Guest on 17.01.14 12:05

@ChippyM wrote:“[Mikaeel's mother] is a quiet lady but she obviously protects the kids from the outside because they don’t get out very often.”
Officers have urged anyone with information on his whereabouts or who think they may have seen them to contact them.
..........

“There were sniffer dogs in the area as well going through the bushes.
“I hope he gets found.”
Frank Arthur, 72, a retired project manager who lives in the flat above the Kular family, said:  ”I’ve seen the little lad and his sister playing around downstairs in the stairwell. They don’t seem to go out a lot."

http://swns.com/news/mikaeel-kular-missing-fears-grow-scottish-boy-3-disappearance-43199/

 The kids not going out much leads me to consider a variety of not very positive things. If the kid did go out by himself he wouldn't have much awareness of his surroundings at all. This is looking less and less positive the longer it goes on.

 I also wonder what the sniffer dogs found, could they not start a trail from his door  - or does it not work like that and have I been watching too many films?

These dogs are so notoriously unreliable, I am amazed the police even bothered to bring them in!

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Mikaeel Kular

Post by Daisy on 17.01.14 12:06

@aiyoyo wrote:
@Tangled Web wrote:I think that this little boy was wearing 'day' clothes because he went 'missing' during the day and not because he dressed himself during the night  sad just my opinion but hope I'm wrong.

His gloves were missing too......so......?
Cannot imagine a 3YO leaving on own volition having the mind frame to put on gloves.
That's my opinion too Tangled Web.

My 3yr old granddaughter is more than capable of dressing herself. But to put on gloves with fingers in them is notoriously difficult for children, even the older ones need help.

____________________
“Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.”   

Unknown


“And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.” 

Friedrich Nietzsche

Daisy

Posts : 1245
Reputation : 4
Join date : 2011-06-15
Location : Yorkshire, England

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Mikaeel Kular

Post by sofieellis on 17.01.14 12:07

Martin Brunt just said Maikaeel didn't attend nursey on Wednesday and possibly hasn't been there all week.

sofieellis

Posts : 184
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-10-16

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Mikaeel Kular

Post by Guest on 17.01.14 12:07

If it's correct that the oldest child is 8, he or she should be able to provide useful information as to when the missing boy was last seen.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Didn't attend nursery on Weds.

Post by Tangled Web on 17.01.14 12:08

Just watched Martin Brunt on Sky News.

Now we have confirmation that he didn't attend nursery on Wednesday and 'maybe not at all this week' and it appears they haven't found anyone that's seen him very recently.

Tangled Web

Posts : 303
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-11-22

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Mikaeel Kular

Post by sallypelt on 17.01.14 12:11

Call me cynical, but no 3 year old SICK child, who for some reason, was "sleeping on his own", would get up in the dark (because it's still dark at 7:00 AM) dress himself and go out.



Edited to add, his siblings will say if the child has been there for the last few nights or not. The best we can hope for, IMO, is that he's with some relative, for whatever reason, and he is unarmed, but I won't hold my breath,

sallypelt

Posts : 3299
Reputation : 522
Join date : 2012-11-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Mikaeel Kular

Post by aiyoyo on 17.01.14 12:15

In every such case, unfailingly Police involve dogs in their search.
It proves Police trust dogs implicitly.  
More reason to believe Op Grange won't ignore dogs in the other case.

aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 318
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Mikaeel Kular

Post by ChippyM on 17.01.14 12:18

@Portia wrote:
Chippy wrote:
 I also wonder what the sniffer dogs found, could they not start a trail from his door  - or does it not work like that and have I been watching too many films?

These dogs are so notoriously unreliable, I am amazed the police even bothered to bring them in!

Oh yes, that's right  titter

Unfortunatley I have considered that the little boy is not outside the house as in the Tia Sharp case and the sniffer dogs being used outside are not finding anything for that reason.

ChippyM

Posts : 908
Reputation : 127
Join date : 2013-06-15

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Mikaeel Kular

Post by aiyoyo on 17.01.14 12:19

I read that ladder was used ......?


aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 318
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Mikaeel Kular

Post by Hopespringseternal on 17.01.14 12:23

Many, many moons ago I looked out the window as I was closing the curtains, to see a wee lad wandering down the street in his dressing gown and slippers. I knew him from the village school and went out to see why he was out so late, in the dark and in his p.js a fair bit away from home. His folks were watching his sister at the school concert and he wanted to go too but wasn't allowed. He waited until they were out and his babysitter was ? (but I know his parents had one in the house) then made a break for it. He was about 5 or 6 yet hadn't thought to get dressed or take a coat. Thankfully it all ended well with him being returned to base in one piece.

Hopespringseternal

Posts : 50
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-10-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Mikaeel Kular

Post by Tony Bennett on 17.01.14 12:39

Judging by the latest leaks, about Mikaeel 'not being at nursery all week', I am wondering if this is a possible scenario:


1. Parents cry 'abduction'

2. Boy said to be missing from bed sometime after 9pm in the evening

3. Cock-and-bull stories about 'first time he had slept in his own room', '3-yr-old perfectly capable of getting dressed and walking out on his own' etc etc

4. Conflicting claims about when the boy was first noticed missing

5. No evidence whatseover of abduction

6. Boy actually 'disappeared' several days ago

7. Mother and maybe at least one other planned an abduction hoax 

8. 'Look over here, don't look over there' - typical magician's trick scenario

____________________

                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


Tony Bennett
Researcher/Moderator

Posts : 13957
Reputation : 2141
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 69
Location : Harlow, Essex

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Page 6 of 34 Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7 ... 20 ... 34  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum