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Red Flags

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Re: Red Flags

Post by HelenMeg on 28.03.14 16:01

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:
Out of interest, why does the swinging theory make little sense to you? 
It makes perfect sense to me so interested in hearing your views...

Thanks

Because I'm not one of those people that thinks that everything is about sex :)  I've not read anything convincing on this forum - or on textusa's blog - that would indicate a swinging holiday.  I agree with a few of Textusa's theories, but I find the rest to be based on huge assumptions that are a thousand miles wide of the mark.  For example: the theory that 'Smithman' could have taken several escape routes because he first saw the Smiths at a distance of 120 metres.  The assumption of 120 metres is nothing but complete tosh, which throws the entire theory out of the window.  Oh yes, textusa does like to include lots of diagrams and google earth photos to back it all up, but don't let them distract you from analysing the 'facts' that have been presented.
OK I disagree that Textusa's theories are based on huge assumptions that are a thousand miles wide of the mark. I think that statement does her grave injustice. However, its not a problem that we all have different theories and I tend to agree with some people some of the time.  But my question was in fact, why does the swinging theory make little sense to you?  You answered because you're not one of those people that thinks everything is about sex and you haven't read anything convincing that indicates a swinging holiday. That is fair enough I suppose, but why the need to speak like you did about another blogsite e.g. Textusa's?

That is not very fair or very reasonable

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Re: Red Flags

Post by Newintown on 28.03.14 16:17

@HelenMeg wrote:
@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:
Out of interest, why does the swinging theory make little sense to you? 
It makes perfect sense to me so interested in hearing your views...

Thanks

Because I'm not one of those people that thinks that everything is about sex :)  I've not read anything convincing on this forum - or on textusa's blog - that would indicate a swinging holiday.  I agree with a few of Textusa's theories, but I find the rest to be based on huge assumptions that are a thousand miles wide of the mark.  For example: the theory that 'Smithman' could have taken several escape routes because he first saw the Smiths at a distance of 120 metres.  The assumption of 120 metres is nothing but complete tosh, which throws the entire theory out of the window.  Oh yes, textusa does like to include lots of diagrams and google earth photos to back it all up, but don't let them distract you from analysing the 'facts' that have been presented.
OK I disagree that Textusa's theories are based on huge assumptions that are a thousand miles wide of the mark. I think that statement does her grave injustice. However, its not a problem that we all have different theories and I tend to agree with some people some of the time.  But my question was in fact, why does the swinging theory make little sense to you?  You answered because you're not one of those people that thinks everything is about sex and you haven't read anything convincing that indicates a swinging holiday. That is fair enough I suppose, but why the need to speak like you did about another blogsite e.g. Textusa's?

That is not very fair or very reasonable

I joined a forum in 2007 a few months after Madeleine disappeared and "swinging" was talked about then, it seemed to be widely known about at that time regarding Madeleine and not something I'd thought about myself but nothing can be ruled out in this particular case just because someone thinks that "not everything is about sex".

Talking about swinging has just reminded me that there was a TV programme shown sometime last year about the "swinging" clubs in Amsterdam, it was quite an eye opener watching it (it also made my eyes water watching it  big grin ), now who lived in Amsterdam for a year, hmmm, let me think.

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Re: Red Flags

Post by rainbow-fairy on 28.03.14 18:45

@Watching wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:[i]Snipped i]'Other people have described that the bed was very neat and tidy but that isn’t what, you know, I could confirm.
1485    ”What was the bed like that you can confirm?”
Reply    ”I, I, you know, I, my note, visual note was she’s not there, the twins are there, you know I just ran out and you know was wanting to, you know, run around like a headless chicken and try and do something you know to be helpful.'

Nothing like completely ignoring the question and replying with something unrelated - after she brought up the bed herself!

The above quote these are not the words of Rachael Oldfield but those of David Payne!   See my response to Mirage.

Cheers
Sorry and thank you Watching, had posted before I saw your correction.
Now I know, I can see that it is more of a DP gibber-speak ramble!

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Re: Red Flags

Post by Watching on 28.03.14 18:46

@jeanmonroe wrote:DP: err I wasn’t certainly there for any length of time, whether it’d be a minute, you know that would be something, or that I’d ever stayed at the maximum because there was just so..
-------------------------------
WTF is the 'maximum' ?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DP ROG:
1485 "Is there anything that you consider pertinent or relevant to establish the material truth''
Reply "Err the, there are a few things but I don't think this is the right forum for bringing those up.'

Thus implying:

(There ARE a 'few things', that he considers 'pertinent and relevent to establish the material truth', but he isn't going to tell the interviewing police officer)

1485 "Okay. And finally, Mr PRIOR touched on the re-enactment earlier on, I think the re-re-enactment's likely to take place either at the end of April or sometime in the middle of May. Do you see yourself attending''

00:54:14 Reply "I will do anything in my powers that could be helpful to shed light on what happened to Madeleine or bring Madeleine back, or to change the status that Kate and Gerry find themselves in. Though saying that, we have concerns regarding going back err for a re-enactment and those points that we have you know raised
-----------------------------------------------------------------
DP: "I will do anything in my powers that could be helpful to shed light on what happened to Madeleine"

"BUT i will not tell you, the police, the 'few things' i know that are 'pertinent and relevent to establish the material truth"

SO, NOT THAT 'HELPFUL' was he?

NEVER, EVER,  did 'go back' did he?

NOT even to the libel case, as a witness for the distraught, constantly depressed, McCanns.

NOT even to 'change' the status that the McCanns 'found themselves in' let alone the status Madeleine 'found herself in'

But he would do ANYTHING in his 'powers' to 'help',,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,NOT!

You wouldn't like HIM 'in the trenches' with you, would you?
-----------------------------------------------

Currently 'serving' and Ex 'proper' coppers have told me that, DP would not have left the police interview UNTIL he HAD TOLD them what the 'few things' he 'knew' were 'pertinent and relevent to establish the truth' (about a childs 'disappearance')

And would have charged and held him on 'suspicion of perverting the course of justice' UNTIL he TOLD them the 'few things' he knew.

So what (or WHO has?) is 'stopping/stopped' DCI Redwood from doing exactly THAT?

And WHY haven't the McCanns, themselves, asked Operation Grange, to 're-interview' Mr Payne about the 'few things' he knows are 'pertinent and relevent to establish the material TRUTH' about the 'disappearance' of THEIR daughter, Madeleine?
 





1485    "Is there anything that you consider pertinent or relevant to establish the material truth''


Mr & Mrs compiled a list of questions for the Leicestershire Police to ask of their mates. The one I have highlighted is one from the list.  We can be sure Payne & t'others knew beforehand what those questions would be.  If you note all interviews, this question was put to them.

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Re: Red Flags

Post by Watching on 28.03.14 19:01

A little example of the same Mr & Mrs question being put to Dianne Webster.  This time by another officer.




4078 -  "And this question's a little bit, a bit of an awkward lengthy question, so err I'll read it as it's written because it's obviously how Gerry and Kate formed it.
Is there any supplementary explanation that you consider pertinent or relevant to establish the material truth?    Basically, is there anything else that you can think of that needs to be mentioned?


 Reply   "What in relation to err.."


 
4078   "It just says is there any supplementary explanation that you consider pertinent or relevant to establish the material truth."   Is there anything that you know that you haven’t previously said that, or that you have possibly said before but you don't think anyone's picked up on, that we need to be aware of and certainly that might make a difference in our search for Madeleine?"”


Reply  "What in relation to what I think might have happened to her? or...?


4078   "Mm, yeah/"
 
Reply  "Err I mean, I, my feeling is the person that err Jane saw err that it was Madeleine that he was err carrying.  I also have a feeling that, that because of the time between Gerry having checked on, on the children and her being taken, err and I think I mentioned it to Gerry, you know, at the time, well not at the time, but days later, that the abductor may well have already been in the apartment when he went to check on Madeleine."

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Re: Red Flags

Post by tigger on 28.03.14 19:03

candyfloss wrote:
@Mirage wrote:
@Watching wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:Snipped from Rachael Oldfield...'Other people have described that the bed was very neat and tidy but that isn’t what, you know, I could confirm.
1485    ”What was the bed like that you can confirm?”
Reply    ”I, I, you know, I, my note, visual note was she’s not there, the twins are there, you know I just ran out and you know was wanting to, you know, run around like a headless chicken and try and do something you know to be helpful.'

Nothing like completely ignoring the question and replying with something unrelated - after she brought up the bed herself!

The above quote these are not the words of Rachael Oldfield but those of David Payne!   See my response to Mirage.

Cheers

Thank you for pointing this out, Watching. It is a very misleading layout error in the rogatory statements. There seem to be two versions as far as I can see. I will look into it immediatley

I have contacted Admin meanwhile to remove the post. My apologies follow  for this error of course. I will also try and contact the site to have this mistake rectified shortly,  as fairness is always my concern to all parties.


Have removed the post and as many quoted as I could see. Mirage.  Can members take note of this error in future posts as things are being attributed to RO instead of DP.  Thanks.


Isn't a real problem Mirage, in terms of the content it highlights the same weakness in that rog. DP is an absolute gift for statement analysis.

I think they shot themselves in the foot by trying to delay the rogs for so long, mainly because the PJ  also wanted to interview the McCanns as well, they finally managed to have an urgent appointment in Brussels  just when the rogs got underway.
But after five  months of delay the instructions given during the Rothley meeting may not have been so fresh in the mind of those who attended. Certainly  DP is a source of much information he particularly wanted to avoid mentioning.
Shades of John Cleese - don't mention the - errrm.

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Re: Red Flags

Post by Watching on 28.03.14 19:25

@rainbow-fairy wrote:
@Watching wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:[i]Snipped i]'Other people have described that the bed was very neat and tidy but that isn’t what, you know, I could confirm.
1485    ”What was the bed like that you can confirm?”
Reply    ”I, I, you know, I, my note, visual note was she’s not there, the twins are there, you know I just ran out and you know was wanting to, you know, run around like a headless chicken and try and do something you know to be helpful.'

Nothing like completely ignoring the question and replying with something unrelated - after she brought up the bed herself!

The above quote these are not the words of Rachael Oldfield but those of David Payne!   See my response to Mirage.

Cheers
Sorry and thank you Watching, had posted before I saw your correction.
Now I know, I can see that it is more of a DP gibber-speak ramble!


Yeah, gibbering and ducking and diving!  His visual note huh?  And he just ran out? His statement he said he walked up to 5A with Kate, so walked in, ran out!

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Re: Red Flags

Post by rainbow-fairy on 28.03.14 19:35

@HelenMeg wrote:
@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:
Out of interest, why does the swinging theory make little sense to you? 
It makes perfect sense to me so interested in hearing your views...

Thanks

Because I'm not one of those people that thinks that everything is about sex :)  I've not read anything convincing on this forum - or on textusa's blog - that would indicate a swinging holiday.  I agree with a few of Textusa's theories, but I find the rest to be based on huge assumptions that are a thousand miles wide of the mark.  For example: the theory that 'Smithman' could have taken several escape routes because he first saw the Smiths at a distance of 120 metres.  The assumption of 120 metres is nothing but complete tosh, which throws the entire theory out of the window.  Oh yes, textusa does like to include lots of diagrams and google earth photos to back it all up, but don't let them distract you from analysing the 'facts' that have been presented.
OK I disagree that Textusa's theories are based on huge assumptions that are a thousand miles wide of the mark. I think that statement does her grave injustice. However, its not a problem that we all have different theories and I tend to agree with some people some of the time.  But my question was in fact, why does the swinging theory make little sense to you?  You answered because you're not one of those people that thinks everything is about sex and you haven't read anything convincing that indicates a swinging holiday. That is fair enough I suppose, but why the need to speak like you did about another blogsite e.g. Textusa's?

That is not very fair or very reasonable
The swinging theory doesn't really work for me as I haven't seen direct or indirect evidence that really points that way, nor do I think it a serious enough reason for such a cover-up. Nor did textusa's piece convince me.
OTOH, I have seen more to convince me of the paedophile theory (and imo a definite reason for a cover-up)
Gaspar statements
CATS no's
Repeated references by McCanns and T9
Posed photos and make-up
P129 and other references in 'madeleine'
I even find the date of the holiday either coincidental or worse - also Kates bizarre reference to the butterfly landing during the visit to the Pope...

For sure, they could all be red herrings. (I would love to think there ISN'T paedophilia involved) The swinging theory could well be correct, all any of us have are theories. I just think there has to be something big behind all this and swinging just doesn't seem to be big enough. Just my opinion though.

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Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

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Re: Red Flags

Post by rainbow-fairy on 28.03.14 19:38

@Watching wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:
@Watching wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:[i]Snipped i]'Other people have described that the bed was very neat and tidy but that isn’t what, you know, I could confirm.
1485    ”What was the bed like that you can confirm?”
Reply    ”I, I, you know, I, my note, visual note was she’s not there, the twins are there, you know I just ran out and you know was wanting to, you know, run around like a headless chicken and try and do something you know to be helpful.'

Nothing like completely ignoring the question and replying with something unrelated - after she brought up the bed herself!

The above quote these are not the words of Rachael Oldfield but those of David Payne!   See my response to Mirage.

Cheers
Sorry and thank you Watching, had posted before I saw your correction.
Now I know, I can see that it is more of a DP gibber-speak ramble!


Yeah, gibbering and ducking and diving!  His visual note huh?  And he just ran out? His statement he said he walked up to 5A with Kate, so walked in, ran out!
The more I read that extract the more bizarre it seems! More bizarre still is the fact he wasn't questioned more - but I suppose there are only so many "errrs" and "you knows" that one policeman can listen to before losing the will to live  laughat

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Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

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Re: Red Flags

Post by Guest on 28.03.14 20:14

**Quote by rainbow-fairy:-


The swinging theory doesn't really work for me as I haven't seen direct or indirect evidence that really points that way, nor do I think it a serious enough reason for such a cover-up. Nor did textusa's piece convince me.
OTOH, I have seen more to convince me of the paedophile theory (and imo a definite reason for a cover-up)
Gaspar statements
CATS no's
Repeated references by McCanns and T9
Posed photos and make-up
P129 and other references in 'madeleine'
I even find the date of the holiday either coincidental or worse - also Kates bizarre reference to the butterfly landing during the visit to the Pope...

For sure, they could all be red herrings. (I would love to think there ISN'T paedophilia involved) The swinging theory could well be correct, all any of us have are theories. I just think there has to be something big behind all this and swinging just doesn't seem to be big enough. Just my opinion though.

**Quote end


What are you thinking of re the dates of the holiday rainbow-fairy. Alice Day (25th April)? Or Beltane (30th April - 1st May)? Or something else...?

I agree absolutely with the rest of your post...

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Re: Red Flags

Post by rainbow-fairy on 28.03.14 20:31

BlackCatBoogie wrote:**Quote by rainbow-fairy:-


The swinging theory doesn't really work for me as I haven't seen direct or indirect evidence that really points that way, nor do I think it a serious enough reason for such a cover-up. Nor did textusa's piece convince me.
OTOH, I have seen more to convince me of the paedophile theory (and imo a definite reason for a cover-up)
Gaspar statements
CATS no's
Repeated references by McCanns and T9
Posed photos and make-up
P129 and other references in 'madeleine'
I even find the date of the holiday either coincidental or worse - also Kates bizarre reference to the butterfly landing during the visit to the Pope...

For sure, they could all be red herrings. (I would love to think there ISN'T paedophilia involved) The swinging theory could well be correct, all any of us have are theories. I just think there has to be something big behind all this and swinging just doesn't seem to be big enough. Just my opinion though.

**Quote end


What are you thinking of re the dates of the holiday rainbow-fairy. Alice Day (25th April)? Or Beltane (30th April - 1st May)? Or something else...?

I agree absolutely with the rest of your post...
Hi BlackCatBoogie,
No not beltane, it's Alice Day (25th April). This is a paedophile 'celebration' for those who like 'girls' and it is celebrated during the whole of April too with gatherings (which put me in mind of the big numbers supposedly at Donegal earlier Apr too)
Here is a link http://absolutezerounited.blogspot.com/2007/04/alice-day-facts.html?m=1
There is a better one on ukpaedos-exposed.com but my battery has gone too low to use Wifi so can't find the page link. I'm sure it's the one that lists symbols (including butterfly)

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Re: Red Flags

Post by Guest on 28.03.14 20:53

@rainbow-fairy wrote:
BlackCatBoogie wrote:**Quote by rainbow-fairy:-


The swinging theory doesn't really work for me as I haven't seen direct or indirect evidence that really points that way, nor do I think it a serious enough reason for such a cover-up. Nor did textusa's piece convince me.
OTOH, I have seen more to convince me of the paedophile theory (and imo a definite reason for a cover-up)
Gaspar statements
CATS no's
Repeated references by McCanns and T9
Posed photos and make-up
P129 and other references in 'madeleine'
I even find the date of the holiday either coincidental or worse - also Kates bizarre reference to the butterfly landing during the visit to the Pope...

For sure, they could all be red herrings. (I would love to think there ISN'T paedophilia involved) The swinging theory could well be correct, all any of us have are theories. I just think there has to be something big behind all this and swinging just doesn't seem to be big enough. Just my opinion though.

**Quote end


What are you thinking of re the dates of the holiday rainbow-fairy. Alice Day (25th April)? Or Beltane (30th April - 1st May)? Or something else...?

I agree absolutely with the rest of your post...
Hi BlackCatBoogie,
No not beltane, it's Alice Day (25th April). This is a paedophile 'celebration' for those who like 'girls' and it is celebrated during the whole of April too with gatherings (which put me in mind of the big numbers supposedly at Donegal earlier Apr too)
Here is a link http://absolutezerounited.blogspot.com/2007/04/alice-day-facts.html?m=1
There is a better one on ukpaedos-exposed.com but my battery has gone too low to use Wifi so can't find the page link. I'm sure it's the one that lists symbols (including butterfly)

Thanks rainbow-fairy, thought you meant one of those 'celebrations'.  Although the OC holiday started on the 28th April and Alice day is on the 25th I guess it could be linked if as you say the 'celebrations' continue throughout April (I didn't know they celebrated the whole month the sick f*cks), and yes that would include Donegal as well wouldn't it?

 I have looked ukpaedos-exposed.com and yes the symbol of the butterfly is indeed listed.  Hmmm.   thx again for your reply

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Re: Red Flags

Post by rainbow-fairy on 28.03.14 21:54

BlackCatBoogie wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:
BlackCatBoogie wrote:R**Quote by rainbow-fairy:-


The swinging theory doesn't really work for me as I haven't seen direct or indirect evidence that really points that way, nor do I think it a serious enough reason for such a cover-up. Nor did textusa's piece convince me.
OTOH, I have seen more to convince me of the paedophile theory (and imo a definite reason for a cover-up)
Gaspar statements
CATS no's
Repeated references by McCanns and T9
Posed photos and make-up
P129 and other references in 'madeleine'
I even find the date of the holiday either coincidental or worse - also Kates bizarre reference to the butterfly landing during the visit to the Pope...

For sure, they could all be red herrings. (I would love to think there ISN'T paedophilia involved) The swinging theory could well be correct, all any of us have are theories. I just think there has to be something big behind all this and swinging just doesn't seem to be big enough. Just my opinion though.

**Quote end


What are you thinking of re the dates of the holiday rainbow-fairy. Alice Day (25th April)? Or Beltane (30th April - 1st May)? Or something else...?

I agree absolutely with the rest of your post...
Hi BlackCatBoogie,
No not beltane, it's Alice Day (25th April). This is a paedophile 'celebration' for those who like 'girls' and it is celebrated during the whole of April too with gatherings (which put me in mind of the big numbers supposedly at Donegal earlier Apr too)
Here is a link http://absolutezerounited.blogspot.com/2007/04/alice-day-facts.html?m=1
There is a better one on ukpaedos-exposed.com but my battery has gone too low to use Wifi so can't find the page link. I'm sure it's the one that lists symbols (including butterfly)

Thanks rainbow-fairy, thought you meant one of those 'celebrations'.  Although the OC holiday started on the 28th April and Alice day is on the 25th I guess it could be linked if as you say the 'celebrations' continue throughout April (I didn't know they celebrated the whole month the sick f*cks), and yes that would include Donegal as well wouldn't it?

 I have looked ukpaedos-exposed.com and yes the symbol of the butterfly is indeed listed.  Hmmm.   thx again for your reply
You're very welcome :) Yes according to this blog https://tuecaa.wordpress.com/category/alice-day/ which is the  one I had been trying to find) the whole month of April is used with the 25th 'main day' as it were. Definitely sick f**ks! Trying to normalise what they do, ugh  bad 
Really do hope these are just coincidences, but to my mind there are just too many  sad1

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Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

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Re: Red Flags

Post by HelenMeg on 28.03.14 22:06

BlackCatBoogie wrote:**Quote by rainbow-fairy:-


The swinging theory doesn't really work for me as I haven't seen direct or indirect evidence that really points that way, nor do I think it a serious enough reason for such a cover-up. Nor did textusa's piece convince me.
OTOH, I have seen more to convince me of the paedophile theory (and imo a definite reason for a cover-up)
Gaspar statements
CATS no's
Repeated references by McCanns and T9
Posed photos and make-up
P129 and other references in 'madeleine'
I even find the date of the holiday either coincidental or worse - also Kates bizarre reference to the butterfly landing during the visit to the Pope...

For sure, they could all be red herrings. (I would love to think there ISN'T paedophilia involved) The swinging theory could well be correct, all any of us have are theories. I just think there has to be something big behind all this and swinging just doesn't seem to be big enough. Just my opinion though.

**Quote end


What are you thinking of re the dates of the holiday rainbow-fairy. Alice Day (25th April)? Or Beltane (30th April - 1st May)? Or something else...?

I agree absolutely with the rest of your post...
I just want to say, I am impressed by this post. Whilst you dont agree with the swinging theory (fair enough) you are reasonable enough to be open-minded to it being a possibililty, alongside other suggestions.
It gets a bit frustrating when posters dismiss other peoples theories without at least showing some respect that different individuals have made their own deductions from information they have found.
There are many theories that people put forward that I dont agree with but I still acknowledge that they are entitled to voice their opinions and maybe they are based on information that I am unaware of.
Thats why this BCB post is a breath of fresh air.

I think you are right, there is something big behind all of this, that binds many different people together including the OC.

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Re: Red Flags

Post by XTC on 28.03.14 22:13

@canada12 wrote:The more I read of this 7 years later, the more the obvious rears its head.

Upon discovering that Madeleine was missing, Kate and then Gerry seem to have made several important assumptions:

1. None of their Tapas friends had anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance
2. Jeremy Wilkins had nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance
3. None of the people they'd met and chatted with at the Ocean Club had anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance

The fact that they immediately promoted "stranger abduction" without interrogating their friends and others they were familiar with on that holiday is a huge red flag.

How did they know, in the first instance, that these people had nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance?
Those are all excellent points.

Whe I first heard of the ' abduction ' of a child amongst a group of people from an  unlocked apartment I thought - Who would know that the parents of the child were at the table and that the apartment was unlocked and unguarded?

Only those at the table would know that and if one or some of them were absent from the group for a period of time the group then would
come under instant suspicion. Unless there was someone or some people on the fringe of the group who may have known the same info?

As for JW - did he ever play tennis with the manager John Hill? Too busy managing I hope than finding time to play tennis? So prior to the panic how did he know who John Hill was?

Lastly JW's partner Bridget O'Donnell said in her Guardian piece that the children loved going to the creche each day. I don't see either of the parents name in the signing in book. So is there more than one creche- or was artistic licence used?

Interesting angle with these discussions I think.

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Re: Red Flags

Post by rainbow-fairy on 28.03.14 22:52

@HelenMeg wrote:
BlackCatBoogie wrote:**Quote by rainbow-fairy:-


The swinging theory doesn't really work for me as I haven't seen direct or indirect evidence that really points that way, nor do I think it a serious enough reason for such a cover-up. Nor did textusa's piece convince me.
OTOH, I have seen more to convince me of the paedophile theory (and imo a definite reason for a cover-up)
Gaspar statements
CATS no's
Repeated references by McCanns and T9
Posed photos and make-up
P129 and other references in 'madeleine'
I even find the date of the holiday either coincidental or worse - also Kates bizarre reference to the butterfly landing during the visit to the Pope...

For sure, they could all be red herrings. (I would love to think there ISN'T paedophilia involved) The swinging theory could well be correct, all any of us have are theories. I just think there has to be something big behind all this and swinging just doesn't seem to be big enough. Just my opinion though.

**Quote end


What are you thinking of re the dates of the holiday rainbow-fairy. Alice Day (25th April)? Or Beltane (30th April - 1st May)? Or something else...?

I agree absolutely with the rest of your post...
I just want to say, I am impressed by this post. Whilst you dont agree with the swinging theory (fair enough) you are reasonable enough to be open-minded to it being a possibililty, alongside other suggestions.
It gets a bit frustrating when posters dismiss other peoples theories without at least showing some respect that different individuals have made their own deductions from information they have found.
There are many theories that people put forward that I dont agree with but I still acknowledge that they are entitled to voice their opinions and maybe they are based on information that I am unaware of.
Thats why this BCB post is a breath of fresh air.

I think you are right, there is something big behind all of this, that binds many different people together including the OC.
TY HelenMeg - I think it important to be open-minded here. It would be all too easy to think something impossible just because we can't contemplate it (something textusa's swinging blog did illustrate, imo) Personally I am on the fence over a few aspects, especially whitewash v truth. Very well argued from both sides - I find myself changing my mind every time!
We are lucky to have some fantastic posters here, thanks to you all  roses 
Your posts are always well written and make sense to me  - I'm thinking it completely possible for swingingand paedophilia to coexist (swinging much more palatable, anyway)

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Re: Red Flags

Post by magrat70 on 28.03.14 23:09

Red flag for me the first time I saw them on TV, which is about a week later because I had been on holiday and seen the posters at the airports etc but hadn't seen them. They were so cold, I know grief and lose can do things to people but when I looked at them, there was nothing but maybe annoyance and a sneer from him, gave me the shivers to be honest and the fact they set up the fund so quickly. I still blame them slightly for that silly mare up in Yorkshire Karen Matthews for thinking you can make a few bob from making your kid disappear. Swap Special Brew for Kiwi Chardonnay there is little difference. I could see it bare knuckle Yorkshire v Lancashire, Matthews against Healy

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Re: Red Flags

Post by bodiddly on 28.03.14 23:17

Red flag for me. The footage of KM meeting the pope.
The way she shook. It was a mixture of nerves, excitement and without a doubt to me, guilt.

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Re: Red Flags

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 28.03.14 23:18

@HelenMeg wrote:
OK I disagree that Textusa's theories are based on huge assumptions that are a thousand miles wide of the mark. I think that statement does her grave injustice. However, its not a problem that we all have different theories and I tend to agree with some people some of the time.  But my question was in fact, why does the swinging theory make little sense to you?  You answered because you're not one of those people that thinks everything is about sex and you haven't read anything convincing that indicates a swinging holiday. That is fair enough I suppose, but why the need to speak like you did about another blogsite e.g. Textusa's?

That is not very fair or very reasonable

I automatically thought of textusa because that's where I've seen the most about the swinging holiday theory.  I haven't done her a grave injustice, I already pointed out the 120 metre Smithman assumption, which if you're interested another time I can show to be based on nothing at all.

The swinging theory makes little sense to me because they brought all their young children and one couple brought their mother/mother-in-law.  I've never been a 'swinger', but if I try to put myself into that mindset I would not bring either my children or the mother of my wife along with me.

I would just add that at no point have I suggested that the 'swinging' theory is impossible. Of course it's possible. But there's no evidence for it.

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Re: Red Flags

Post by bodiddly on 28.03.14 23:34

Helenmeg I am an avid Textusa reader and her theory intrigues me.
I like her writing style and I enjoy reading her blog. There are not many that post their theories in such detail and this is what makes her so exciting to read.

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Re: Red Flags

Post by Woofer on 28.03.14 23:46

@rainbow-fairy wrote:
BlackCatBoogie wrote:**Quote by rainbow-fairy:-


The swinging theory doesn't really work for me as I haven't seen direct or indirect evidence that really points that way, nor do I think it a serious enough reason for such a cover-up. Nor did textusa's piece convince me.
OTOH, I have seen more to convince me of the paedophile theory (and imo a definite reason for a cover-up)
Gaspar statements
CATS no's
Repeated references by McCanns and T9
Posed photos and make-up
P129 and other references in 'madeleine'
I even find the date of the holiday either coincidental or worse - also Kates bizarre reference to the butterfly landing during the visit to the Pope...

For sure, they could all be red herrings. (I would love to think there ISN'T paedophilia involved) The swinging theory could well be correct, all any of us have are theories. I just think there has to be something big behind all this and swinging just doesn't seem to be big enough. Just my opinion though.

**Quote end


What are you thinking of re the dates of the holiday rainbow-fairy. Alice Day (25th April)? Or Beltane (30th April - 1st May)? Or something else...?

I agree absolutely with the rest of your post...
Hi BlackCatBoogie,
No not beltane, it's Alice Day (25th April). This is a paedophile 'celebration' for those who like 'girls' and it is celebrated during the whole of April too with gatherings (which put me in mind of the big numbers supposedly at Donegal earlier Apr too)
Here is a link http://absolutezerounited.blogspot.com/2007/04/alice-day-facts.html?m=1
There is a better one on ukpaedos-exposed.com but my battery has gone too low to use Wifi so can't find the page link. I'm sure it's the one that lists symbols (including butterfly)

Could be coincidences again but Alice Day is based on Lewis Carroll`s interest in young girls and of course he wrote Alice in Wonderland - there have been other Alice references during this saga i.e. Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee, cuddle Cat is very similar to the Cheshire Cat, Bread and Butterflies; there`s also a KEY in the story which Alice can`t reach because she`s drunk the drink that made her small.

Not linked to Alice in Wonderland but wonder if the reference to the can of beans falling off the shelf is `spilling the beans`.

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Re: Red Flags

Post by rainbow-fairy on 28.03.14 23:59

@Woofer wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:
BlackCatBoogie wrote:**Quote by rainbow-fairy:-


The swinging theory doesn't really work for me as I haven't seen direct or indirect evidence that really points that way, nor do I think it a serious enough reason for such a cover-up. Nor did textusa's piece convince me.
OTOH, I have seen more to convince me of the paedophile theory (and imo a definite reason for a cover-up)
Gaspar statements
CATS no's
Repeated references by McCanns and T9
Posed photos and make-up
P129 and other references in 'madeleine'
I even find the date of the holiday either coincidental or worse - also Kates bizarre reference to the butterfly landing during the visit to the Pope...

For sure, they could all be red herrings. (I would love to think there ISN'T paedophilia involved) The swinging theory could well be correct, all any of us have are theories. I just think there has to be something big behind all this and swinging just doesn't seem to be big enough. Just my opinion though.

**Quote end


What are you thinking of re the dates of the holiday rainbow-fairy. Alice Day (25th April)? Or Beltane (30th April - 1st May)? Or something else...?

I agree absolutely with the rest of your post...
Hi BlackCatBoogie,
No not beltane, it's Alice Day (25th April). This is a paedophile 'celebration' for those who like 'girls' and it is celebrated during the whole of April too with gatherings (which put me in mind of the big numbers supposedly at Donegal earlier Apr too)
Here is a link http://absolutezerounited.blogspot.com/2007/04/alice-day-facts.html?m=1
There is a better one on ukpaedos-exposed.com but my battery has gone too low to use Wifi so can't find the page link. I'm sure it's the one that lists symbols (including butterfly)

Could be coincidences again but Alice Day is based on Lewis Carroll`s interest in young girls and of course he wrote Alice in Wonderland - there have been other Alice references during this saga i.e. Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee, cuddle Cat is very similar to the Cheshire Cat, Bread and Butterflies; there`s also a KEY in the story which Alice can`t reach because she`s drunk the drink that made her small.

Not linked to Alice in Wonderland but wonder if the reference to the can of beans falling off the shelf is `spilling the beans`.
Wow hadn't thought of that Woofer, but you are right! Definite likenesses there  thumbup 
Not to forget 'down the rabbithole we go' - that's what this case feels like to me!

The beans reference is intriguing - a very odd phrase to use - its not like beans just fall off shelves is it? It could well be a not-so-subtle reference to telling the truth (or not, as is the case!)  yes

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Re: Red Flags

Post by coati mundi on 29.03.14 0:04

Have joined this late but:

DP ROG:
1485 "Is there anything that you consider pertinent or relevant to establish the material truth''
Reply "Err the, there are a few things but I don't think this is the right forum for bringing those up.

I have just seen this and have to say that as someone who represented many people in police station interviews, I find it astounding that he could tell the police that it wasn't " the right forum" to to tell them the things that might be relevant. It was not a "forum" it was a police interview.

Anyone I ever represented would probably have been arrested and pressed to tell the police what they meant by that.

By the way, did anyone ask him what would have been the right forum in which to bring up these "few things"? That should have been the next question.

The sweeping arrogance of these people!

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Re: Red Flags

Post by rainbow-fairy on 29.03.14 0:19

@coati mundi wrote:Have joined this late but:

DP ROG:
1485 "Is there anything that you consider pertinent or relevant to establish the material truth''
Reply "Err the, there are a few things but I don't think this is the right forum for bringing those up.

I have just seen this and have to say that as someone who represented many people in police station interviews, I find it astounding that he could tell the police that it wasn't " the right forum" to to tell them the things that might be relevant. It was not a "forum" it was a police interview.

Anyone I ever represented would probably have been arrested and pressed to tell the police what they meant by that.

By the way, did anyone ask him what would have been the right forum in which to bring up these "few things"? That should have been the next question.

The sweeping arrogance of these people!
Agree coati mundi. It is unbelievable - after all, a little girl's life and wellbeing was, according to these people, at stake and they are playing fast and loose. So hard to believe the police just let them off with such blatant non-cooperation. Its like the T9 were laughing up their sleeves   nah 
I would like to think that they feel utterly ashamed of themselves but I'm not at all confident that that is the case, sadly.

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Re: Red Flags

Post by kimHager on 29.03.14 3:05

I'm shocked the PJ asked these questions and almost never seemed too follow up and get down to business so to speak... Every statement was a bunch of errrms and the well you know errrrms that nothing makes sense they say. If someone say I know something but I'm not telling you then you know they are hiding something.... So hold7 them there until they talk.

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