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Red Flags

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Re: Red Flags

Post by bobbin on 05.03.14 17:38

@Doug D wrote:'arrived at the Ocean Club resort in the village of PdL at around three' (p. 45)

'..... after checking in we were driven over to our accommodation in a minibus by a MW rep.........

We removed the cots and shoved the twin beds together......

.....After reorganising..... and unpacking some essentials we went down to the pool area......'

Thanks DougD, so the photo of the pool can't have been taken on the Sat. of arrival, so given the need for the weather to be sunny, the only possible time, if it is a real photo, would have to be the Sunday, but Maddie was in creche a.m. and p.m.
What else does Kate or Gerry say about that day, or what were they doing re tennis etc. for the time around the pool to be high sun.
It is certainly not possible that the photo was taken on the 3rd, all the weather records and even tapas statements make no bones about stating it was cold and cloudy.

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Re: Red Flags

Post by Doug D on 05.03.14 17:40

I think it fits for the playground photos, but the 'sunny pool' is suggested as the Sunday.

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Re: Red Flags

Post by Guest on 05.03.14 17:42

@Doug D wrote:'arrived at the Ocean Club resort in the village of PdL at around three' (p. 45)

'..... after checking in we were driven over to our accommodation in a minibus by a MW rep.........

We removed the cots and shoved the twin beds together......

.....After reorganising..... and unpacking some essentials we went down to the pool area......'
***
REMOVED the cots and shoved the twin beds together? Where there 3 beds in the room?

ETA sorry or was that removing the cots out of the master bedroom and shove their own twin [and not the twins[ beds together ... ?

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Re: Red Flags

Post by kimHager on 05.03.14 17:44

And Gerry's statement that he wasn't there for fun or relaxing.. Something to that effect on the bus leads me to believe it was all Premeditated... Creepy I don't really think death was but possibly an abduction or something maybe.... Not sure about much when it comes to this case

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Re: Red Flags

Post by Doug D on 05.03.14 17:57

Sunday 29th April.
 
P. 51 ‘soon after midday we collected the children……
 
…. In the afternoon the children went back to their clubs…’
 
Creche records M. out 12.15, back in 14.45
 
S & M. No morning sheet, back in at 14.35
 
Chatelaine,
 
Yes.
 
‘….travel cots…..had been placed in the back bedroom……..we decided to put the three children in the front bedroom’

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Re: Red Flags

Post by Varriott on 05.03.14 18:01

@kimHager wrote:And Gerry's statement that he wasn't there for fun or relaxing.. Something to that effect on the bus leads me to believe it was all Premeditated... Creepy  I don't really think death was but possibly an abduction or something maybe.... Not sure about much when it comes to this case

That's a step too far for me.  If I were going to kill my daughter in a premeditated way, I certainly wouldn't make sarcastic comments to friends and family in advance about what a drag the holiday was going to be for me.  I'm not here to have fun - I'm here to kill my daughter, stage an abduction, and lie to the world on Sky News - so please give me a minute to pout!  No, I think he's just a jerk.  Looking after three little kids is presumably a lot of work and leaves no time for personal relaxing on a holiday.  But that's what you sign up for when you become a parent.

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Re: Red Flags

Post by Okeydokey on 05.03.14 18:02

@frost wrote:one toothbrush between 3 children and the parents are doctors !

Yes, had forgotten that one - very odd.  Has it been confirmed?

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Re: Red Flags

Post by Okeydokey on 05.03.14 18:04

@Varriott wrote:
@kimHager wrote:And Gerry's statement that he wasn't there for fun or relaxing.. Something to that effect on the bus leads me to believe it was all Premeditated... Creepy  I don't really think death was but possibly an abduction or something maybe.... Not sure about much when it comes to this case

That's a step too far for me.  If I were going to kill my daughter in a premeditated way, I certainly wouldn't make sarcastic comments to friends and family in advance about what a drag the holiday was going to be for me.  I'm not here to have fun - I'm here to kill my daughter, stage an abduction, and lie to the world on Sky News - so please give me a minute to pout!  No, I think he's just a jerk.  Looking after three little kids is presumably a lot of work and leaves no time for personal relaxing on a holiday.  But that's what you sign up for when you become a parent.

Yeah not a Red Flag but an orange one perhaps. It's suggestive of a certain narcissicism I think, behaving like that in front of children.

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Re: Red Flags

Post by Guest on 05.03.14 18:09

@Casey5 wrote:Washing cuddle cat. Nobody with a missing child would have done that.
And then, not being able to understand why it upset so many.
Kate's attitude, it was dirty and smelly so obviously it needed washing, she literally didn't get it.
And also sending all Madeleine's clothes to the launderette, the clothes she took off last before being "abducted". It's not normal behaviour- if you're innocent that is.
Washing curtains, disposing of a fridge and doing own pruning on hol?  wtf2 Fine if nothing untoward, but certainly not my kind of holiday.

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Re: Red Flags

Post by Guest on 05.03.14 18:09

@Varriott wrote:
@kimHager wrote:And Gerry's statement that he wasn't there for fun or relaxing.. Something to that effect on the bus leads me to believe it was all Premeditated... Creepy  I don't really think death was but possibly an abduction or something maybe.... Not sure about much when it comes to this case

That's a step too far for me.  If I were going to kill my daughter in a premeditated way, I certainly wouldn't make sarcastic comments to friends and family in advance about what a drag the holiday was going to be for me.  I'm not here to have fun - I'm here to kill my daughter, stage an abduction, and lie to the world on Sky News - so please give me a minute to pout!  No, I think he's just a jerk.  Looking after three little kids is presumably a lot of work and leaves no time for personal relaxing on a holiday.  But that's what you sign up for when you become a parent.

Looking after young children is hard work but Gerry&Kate had plenty of 'me-time' on this holiday.  The three children were put into creche each day and saw their parents at meal-times.

That's not to say that I believe MBM attended the creche until 3rd May.

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red flag

Post by janders1872 on 05.03.14 18:28

when mrs fenn asks about the commotion below ,gerry says a young girl has gone missing!not that my daughter is missing or have you seen anything or is she with you? it seems he was trying to fob off mrs fenn.big red flag.

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Re: Red Flags

Post by Varriott on 05.03.14 19:00

In my opinion, these are all enormous red flags.  What I think it points to, however, is circumstantial evidence.  I personally think the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming.  But it's clearly not enough for a court conviction beyond reasonable doubt.  Not even enough for charges... at least not unless one of the two police forces dealing with this knows something they are not saying. Where does that leave us?  Are we some kind of outraged mob?  I think we all have to accept that in a democracy, some people will escape justice because there's not enough evidence against them.  I'm ok with that, as it prevents a lot of wrongful convictions.  What gets me about this case is really about the media - how the media act as if the parents have been exonerated, when they haven't been.  A fair, balanced, unbiased media (let alone police force) would use more qualifiers like 'alleged' abduction, etc.  I once spoke to someone from the MSM who told me that the tabloids act for their own agendas with no regard for the truth, while the broadsheets actually don't care about this case.  Anyway, those are my thoughts triggered by this red flag topic.

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Re: Red Flags

Post by Woofer on 05.03.14 19:41

On the 15th May 2007 the McCanns formed a company called Madeleine`s Fund - No Stone Unturned.  This was only 11 days after her disappearance and she could have been found any day.  As Enid O`Dowd pointed out, such funds are usually started after a tragic event and in a person`s memory.  It`s one of the biggest red flags for me, but obviously not illegal.

A defence barrister could whitewash that away - but whether a jury would fall for it is another matter.

AND ..

A child crying for 1 & 3/4 hours on the Tuesday as per Mrs. Fenn`s statement.

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Re: Red Flags

Post by Okeydokey on 05.03.14 19:51

MILLIE wrote:
@Casey5 wrote:Washing cuddle cat. Nobody with a missing child would have done that.
And then, not being able to understand why it upset so many.
Kate's attitude, it was dirty and smelly so obviously it needed washing, she literally didn't get it.
And also sending all Madeleine's clothes to the launderette, the clothes she took off last before being "abducted". It's not normal behaviour- if you're innocent that is.
Washing curtains, disposing of a fridge and doing own pruning on hol?  wtf2 Fine if nothing untoward, but certainly not my kind of holiday.

Not sure any of those are verified. Do you have sources for those?

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Re: Red Flags

Post by Casey5 on 05.03.14 20:59

@Okeydokey wrote:
@Casey5 wrote:Washing cuddle cat. Nobody with a missing child would have done that.

Not sure any of those are verified. Do you have sources for those?
Can only give sources for mine Okeydokey:-



From Kate's diary



http://www.mccannfiles.com/id166.html
 
THURSDAY, JULY 12: I hate the person who took my Madeleine—the same one who has caused all this trouble, who made us feel worthless and mistrustful and mainly who has frightened my beautiful Madeleine. I will never forgive that person/those people for this. Never.
 
Today I washed the Cuddle Cat (Madeleine's favourite soft toy and a constant comfort to heartbroken Kate). I was hoping not to have to do it until Madeleine returns, but it was now quite dirty and smelly, unfortunately without the smell of Madeleine on it. XX
 
 
 
 
http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4697p10-maddie-s-clothes
Also on 5th May 2007, two days after the announcement of Madeleine's disappearance, the police, according to Amaral, would commit an important error: "We were busy checking all the traces that came with the Ambassador. Traces that were moreover, found to be false".

New instructions from the regional national directorate of the PJ, given after the intervention of two British diplomats – Ambassador John Buck and Consul Bill Henderson – turned the investigator's attention away from the McCanns
.

Kate and Gerry McCann, for the first and only time, went to hand in clothes to be washed in the Complex laundry, including Madeleine's clothes, which the inspectors only heard about two days later. Too late, according to Amaral.

"At the time we had not established exactly which clothes Gerry was wearing on the night of the disappearance nor which clothes were handed in to be washed on 5th May", says Gonçalo Amaral.


http://www.mccannfiles.com/id165.html.
 
It was by means of the statements by various members of staff from the complex, linked to the laundry service, that the inspectors were to learn that the McCanns had their children's clothes - those of Madeleine and also those of Sean and Amélie - washed.

"That would never have happened without the intervention of Mark Warner and, in particular, of the Ambassador. They took advantage of the space we gave them, It was a mistake on our part", admits Gonçalo Amaral.

 
"Last Saturday (05/05/2007) I received a bag of clothes brought in by Mark Warner staff, and was told expressly that these belonged to Madeleine's family – there was adult clothing (male and female) and children's clothing... ", states one of the laundry workers.

Although the laundry worker only remembers a pink skirt belonging to Madeleine, she has no uncertainty in confirming that there were also other clothes belonging to the small British girl, which has also been confirmed to the police by other colleagues.

 
 
 

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Re: Red Flags

Post by Watching The Detectives on 05.03.14 21:21

Re:toothbrushes

I have seen suggested elsewhere that toothbrushes may have gone missing so that they were not available to be tested for drugs present in saliva.

Personally, I find old toothbrushes useful for cleaning grouting between tiles, although I'm not sure how robust a child's toothbrush would be for this purpose.

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Re: Red Flags

Post by Guest on 05.03.14 21:33

@Watching The Detectives wrote:Re:toothbrushes

I have seen suggested elsewhere that toothbrushes may have gone missing so that they were not available to be tested for drugs present in saliva.

Personally, I find old toothbrushes useful for cleaning grouting between tiles, although I'm not sure how robust a child's toothbrush would be for this purpose.

Do you think that would also apply to the children's hairbrushes (missing or one between three) - to avoid hairs being tested for drugs?

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Re: Red Flags

Post by Woofer on 05.03.14 21:37

If I was on a jury and was presented with just a fraction of all these red flags  .....  I know what my verdict would be.

But will anyone ever be charged in order for it to get to court ... that`s the big question?

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Re: Red Flags

Post by Woofer on 05.03.14 21:42

@Casey5 wrote:
@Okeydokey wrote:
@Casey5 wrote:Washing cuddle cat. Nobody with a missing child would have done that.

Not sure any of those are verified. Do you have sources for those?
Can only give sources for mine Okeydokey:-



From Kate's diary



http://www.mccannfiles.com/id166.html
 
THURSDAY, JULY 12: I hate the person who took my Madeleine—the same one who has caused all this trouble, who made us feel worthless and mistrustful and mainly who has frightened my beautiful Madeleine. I will never forgive that person/those people for this. Never.
 
Today I washed the Cuddle Cat (Madeleine's favourite soft toy and a constant comfort to heartbroken Kate). I was hoping not to have to do it until Madeleine returns, but it was now quite dirty and smelly, unfortunately without the smell of Madeleine on it. XX
 
 
 
 
http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4697p10-maddie-s-clothes
Also on 5th May 2007, two days after the announcement of Madeleine's disappearance, the police, according to Amaral, would commit an important error: "We were busy checking all the traces that came with the Ambassador. Traces that were moreover, found to be false".

New instructions from the regional national directorate of the PJ, given after the intervention of two British diplomats – Ambassador John Buck and Consul Bill Henderson – turned the investigator's attention away from the McCanns
.

Kate and Gerry McCann, for the first and only time, went to hand in clothes to be washed in the Complex laundry, including Madeleine's clothes, which the inspectors only heard about two days later. Too late, according to Amaral.

"At the time we had not established exactly which clothes Gerry was wearing on the night of the disappearance nor which clothes were handed in to be washed on 5th May", says Gonçalo Amaral.


http://www.mccannfiles.com/id165.html.
 
It was by means of the statements by various members of staff from the complex, linked to the laundry service, that the inspectors were to learn that the McCanns had their children's clothes - those of Madeleine and also those of Sean and Amélie - washed.

"That would never have happened without the intervention of Mark Warner and, in particular, of the Ambassador. They took advantage of the space we gave them, It was a mistake on our part", admits Gonçalo Amaral.

 
"Last Saturday (05/05/2007) I received a bag of clothes brought in by Mark Warner staff, and was told expressly that these belonged to Madeleine's family – there was adult clothing (male and female) and children's clothing... ", states one of the laundry workers.

Although the laundry worker only remembers a pink skirt belonging to Madeleine, she has no uncertainty in confirming that there were also other clothes belonging to the small British girl, which has also been confirmed to the police by other colleagues.

 
 
 

It`s good to keep going over things - I`d forgotten about all this.  Absolutely unbelievable   wft

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Re: Red Flags

Post by Guest on 05.03.14 21:46

F**king unbelievable indeed.

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Re: Red Flags

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 05.03.14 22:43

Châtelaine wrote:F**king unbelievable indeed.

Shocked!  big grin

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Re: Red Flags

Post by Okeydokey on 05.03.14 22:51

Casey - I was replying to Millie, not querying your sources.

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Re: Red Flags

Post by annysmithgold on 05.03.14 23:23

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:
@frost wrote:one toothbrush between 3 children and the parents are doctors !

Please let that one be a forum myth as it's so gross!  puke

PeterMac, the Sunday's date was 29th not 31st April.

That still leaves the problem of why wasn't the photo made available immediately if it was really taken on

the holiday and why is there such a difference between Madeleine there and in the tennis ball one


There are only 30 days in april

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Re: Red Flags

Post by Okeydokey on 05.03.14 23:59

One that was a Red Flag for the PJ was Kate's indifference when they sped her to the police station having heard of a new lead that could be an ID of the missing Madeleine. She had no interest.

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Re: Red Flags

Post by ultimaThule on 06.03.14 0:59

@Varriott wrote:
@kimHager wrote:And Gerry's statement that he wasn't there for fun or relaxing.. Something to that effect on the bus leads me to believe it was all Premeditated... Creepy  I don't really think death was but possibly an abduction or something maybe.... Not sure about much when it comes to this case

That's a step too far for me.  If I were going to kill my daughter in a premeditated way, I certainly wouldn't make sarcastic comments to friends and family in advance about what a drag the holiday was going to be for me.  I'm not here to have fun - I'm here to kill my daughter, stage an abduction, and lie to the world on Sky News - so please give me a minute to pout!  No, I think he's just a jerk.  Looking after three little kids is presumably a lot of work and leaves no time for personal relaxing on a holiday.  But that's what you sign up for when you become a parent.
If the wee one wasn't there to enjoy himself, what was he there to do?  Chat up quiz hostesses?  Watch British football matches in those bars of Luz which have Sky tv?  Absent himself on the tennis courts?  Or reluctantly spend quality time with his spouse and 3 children, one of whom he thought looked so beautiful while she slept and all of whom made him feel so lucky to be their father that he was happy to consign them to the care of MW staff all day, every day - but never at night.

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