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PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by Seek truth on 08.03.14 7:04

@Pershing36 wrote:I had a little look around the pro sites which was very enlightening.  Seems that the PJ not publishing every little detail of their investigation hardens their view they are bungling it again.

I wonder how they will twist it to Mac's and SY benefit when 7 million pounds + and not a single arrest or suspect changes anything?

NO doubt it will be the PJ's fault again.
SY isnt publishing either are they?  So are they bungling it too?
Would they really tell the papers first before arresting anyone?

At least the portuguese published the files, now let's see if SY will too

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by Guest on 08.03.14 11:27

@lj wrote:
@tungsten tel wrote:Pretty sure SY would take the easy route of whitewash but reckon they are covering their proverbial asses by dragging it out and will have in place an ending that matches a PJ charge and conviction of the Mccanns . If they dont know what evidence the PJ have they would be foolish to come to any conclusion first . Imho

I have no doubt that, just as for the pathetic parents, the unexpected reopening by the PJ was a kind of unpleasant surprise.
I bet you're right. And I'm coming increasingly to the conclusion that the only reason the Met 'investigation' is continuing is because the Portuguese one is and they are desperate - via letters of request and dozens of visits and, indeed, their frank admissions to the fact - to join with the PJ investigation and 'work more closely together'. Why would this be?

The PJ have clearly affirmed in this statement that their investigation is exclusive to them and the British are unaware of it's nature and findings. It is the British - NOT the Portuguese that are desirous of the close partnership. There can only be one conclusion: The Met have concerns about just what direction the PJ investgation is taking and what evidence they have to that end. They are rattled.

I am now concluding that the British 'investigation' would have finished by now and would've turned out either a whitewash or inconclusive.  But because of the PJ bombshell in opening the case again the Met are forced to continue theirs, limping along behind the Portuguese in the hope of infiltration and damage limitation. Is that why Redwood looks so grim and determined these days?

The continuing and constant stream of revelations of SY corruption,  cover-ups and investigations of case to find conclusions that fit their own agenda - most recently Lawrence, but also recently an alarming rush of other cases lead me to assume similar motives existed for Grange.

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by comperedna on 08.03.14 12:45

Surely the Met can't want another huge mess in the press if they are found out in a cover up... again... as they surely would be in this case. They simply HAVE to keep their noses clean this time... Don't they?

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by Guest on 08.03.14 12:57

comperedna5 wrote:Surely the Met can't want another huge mess in the press if they are found out in a cover up... again... as they surely would be in this case. They simply HAVE to keep their noses clean this time... Don't they?

Problem is, the review was ordered (by Rebekah Brooks - her desire to protect or expose the McCanns I still can't decide) almost 3 years ago before the damning revelations into their other cover-ups were thrust into an increasingly appalled public eye.

3 years ago, still secure under their undisclosed umbrella of corruption, who knows what the remit was? Although yes, certainly, recent exposure makes the Met position increasingly perilous. Could this precipitate a change of direction? Could they now start to prove what they already know to be the truth, or will they remain gagged by those above them?

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by ultimaThule on 08.03.14 13:14

Mrs Brooks is no-one's fool, DeeCoy.  winkwink 

The seeming moratorium on the UK press with regard to publishing Mchype may leave the Plaintiffs somewhat exposed when the libel trial in Lisbon resumes.   What will they do if the family source is unable to rub a couple of twigs together to create a convenient smokescreen to spare their blushes? big grin

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by tungsten tel on 08.03.14 15:31

comperedna5 wrote:Surely the Met can't want another huge mess in the press if they are found out in a cover up... again... as they surely would be in this case. They simply HAVE to keep their noses clean this time... Don't they?
Thats what I was implying earlier , they cannot whitewash or announce the Mccanns innocence because how stupid and corrupt would SY look to the world should the PJ at some later date charge and try them . Thats why they will wait to see what happens in Portugal . Or decide to do the right
thing and investigate the crime properly .  big grin

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by canada12 on 08.03.14 18:00

IMO the downfall of the last investigation in 2007 was that the PJ cooperated too closely with the British police, leading to interference and manipulation and the eventual outcome that we're all familiar with.

By not appearing to cooperate now, and by keeping their investigation separate from SY, the PJ can handily avoid any new attempts at interference at all levels. They are not sharing their information this time. They have put themselves beyond the reach of any corruption in the UK. And they are not answerable to anyone connected to the McCanns.

I think a British review of the case was all the McCanns wanted. I think it's now a case of, be careful of what you wish for...as it may backfire badly in your face.

I don't think this is what TM envisaged in their wildest nightmares. Remember - they could have asked the PJ to reopen the case at any time. And they didn't.

So now it's been re-opened for them.

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by PeterMac on 08.03.14 19:47

My spies, sorry "sources close to the investigations",  tell me that neither PJ nor SY are leaking ANYTHING
And never have.
What has been seen as leaks is pure CM.

Does anyone here think it likely that either force would say

"We know where she is and who has got her, and their names and identities, and we are going to raid their address and arrest them
.
.
.
at exactly 7:30am -  Thursday 20th March
So watch out !"


Only Mitchell has a mind that would conjure up this carp.
" />

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 08.03.14 20:28

@PeterMac wrote:My spies, sorry "sources close to the investigations",  tell me that neither PJ nor SY are leaking ANYTHING
And never have.
What has been seen as leaks is pure CM.

Does anyone here think it likely that either force would say

"We know where she is and who has got her, and their names and identities, and we are going to raid their address and arrest them
.
.
.
at exactly 7:30am -  Thursday 20th March
So watch out !"


Only Mitchell has a mind that would conjure up this carp.
" />

I find it hard to believe CM is 100% behind the "leaks" alone and without the help of other parties IYKWIM. Not to mention the press printing all these "leaks".

Either the biggest crap is about to hit the fan, or the biggest cover-up in UK history is in the process of being created.

I really don't want to start believing that is possible. wft

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by Guest on 08.03.14 21:17

OT; place where I used to live at least three adults disappeared over the years, swimming in a nearby lake

Down comes the Iron Curtain; in come the carp-fishers in the moonlight

Lo and behold: one of them bags a 5 ft carp apparently capable of swallowing a live pig


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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by Cristobell on 09.03.14 13:16

@canada12 wrote:IMO the downfall of the last investigation in 2007 was that the PJ cooperated too closely with the British police, leading to interference and manipulation and the eventual outcome that we're all familiar with.

By not appearing to cooperate now, and by keeping their investigation separate from SY, the PJ can handily avoid any new attempts at interference at all levels. They are not sharing their information this time. They have put themselves beyond the reach of any corruption in the UK. And they are not answerable to anyone connected to the McCanns.

I think a British review of the case was all the McCanns wanted. I think it's now a case of, be careful of what you wish for...as it may backfire badly in your face.

I don't think this is what TM envisaged in their wildest nightmares. Remember - they could have asked the PJ to reopen the case at any time. And they didn't.

So now it's been re-opened for them.



Good points Canada.  There was undoubtedly interference in the original investigation by the PJ.  So much so, that the co-ordinator Goncalo Amaral, who was on the right track, was removed from the investigation!  How much evidence was lost because the police were ordered not to treat the parents as suspects, something that would be standard procedure in any other claim of child abduction.  

There were a lot of errors on the part of the police too.  They should have photographed what each of the group were wearing, or at least made a note of it, given the toings and froings and Dr. Frankenstein's creature walking away with a lifeless child across his arms.  I suspect however, that the McCanns had put in motion their appeals for help before the police were called, and Gerry's demands for more senior police, actually mean't ones who had been given the nod to treat him and his crew with kid gloves, in a 'how dare you, don't you know who I am' sort of way.

I expect Operation Grange will look into the favours the McCanns received in the Summer of 2007, and in some cases (though v.few imo) still continuing.  Denying any cover up would be futile.  Goncalo Amaral clearly was removed from the investigation, supposedly for criticising the interference of the British!  Questions should definitely be asked about the assistance given to the McCanns by CEOP, especially after they were named as Arguidos by the Portuguese Police? Will the instructions to CEOP be investigated? Or indeed, will those in charge of CEOP at the time, be called to explain their actions? When the time comes for Scotland Yard to submit a detailed report of Operation Grange, they will have to start at the very beginning.  Where it all went wrong.  

Who gave the orders to put pressure on the Portuguese authorities to lay off the McCanns? What pressure was used (Treaty of Lisbon?) to stop the Portuguese investigating the parents, and more importantly, why? So, who gave the orders? Who carried them out?  The British Consul, (?) Buck, was obviously troubled by what he was being asked to do, as seen from the frantic email, asking for confirmation of orders.

However, I'm pretty sure that all those who made the wrong decisions in 2007 have their defences prepared.  Number 1 being, well everyone believed them.  Number 2. 'if they fooled Dr. Sharon Leal (lie expert), what chance did we have?  Number 3. It was someone's else's fault.  In almost all cases Option 3 will apply, with large helpings of 1 and 2, and the buck won't find anywhere to stop.  

I think from 2008 onwards, VIPs and celebrities have been far more guarded in showing support for Kate and Gerry.  Indeed, JK Rowling issued a rare press release, to say that she had no part in writing Kate's book.  What a sneaky way of increasing sale btw, claiming the world's best selling author helped write it! Their devious tricks never fail to astound me.  

But I digress, I don't think Scotland Yard will vigorously pursue grey men in the corridors of Whitehall.  Those in the public eye, will simply say they were acting on information given at the time and their genuine desire to assist a couple bereft with grief over their missing daughter.  I am sure the real villains know who they are and whether they have acted within the bounds of the Law and their own conscience (if they have one).

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by jeanmonroe on 09.03.14 14:06

I think from 2008 onwards, VIPs and celebrities have been far more guarded in showing support for Kate and Gerry.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I think that when the VIP's and zelbrities READ the PJ 'files' released in 2008, they weren't more 'guarded', they were OFF!

All the McCann big gun 'supporters' got their 'minnions' to read EVERY word in the files and when they reported back to their big bosses 'that statements from the McCanns and 'friends' accounts did NOT 'stack up' the ardent 'supporters' were also 'abducted'

And do you honestly think that people like R Branson cannot 'see' what the Met are 'trying to do'?

All the McCanns BILLIONAIRE 'backers' at the outset COULD of hired the very, very, best investigators in the WORLD, as a 'favour' to McCanns to get their daughter back.

DID THEY?

Er...................NO!

AFTER THE 'FILES' RELEASE THE ZLEBS WERE 'GONE'

And who could blame them?

With newspaper 'headlines' awaiting:

"Zleb, X, Y, Z, BACK self confessed child neglectors"

"Zleb, X, Y, Z, say it's alright and responsible to leave you babies, alone in unlocked apartments abroad, out of sight, whilst dining with your friends"

etc.,

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by ultimaThule on 09.03.14 14:33

@PeterMac wrote:My spies, sorry "sources close to the investigations",  tell me that neither PJ nor SY are leaking ANYTHING
And never have.
What has been seen as leaks is pure CM.

Does anyone here think it likely that either force would say

"We know where she is and who has got her, and their names and identities, and we are going to raid their address and arrest them
.
.
.
at exactly 7:30am -  Thursday 20th March
So watch out !"


Only Mitchell has a mind that would conjure up this carp.
" />
I have no doubt that your sources are infinitely more reliable than the lone source whose remit it is to manufacture 'good news' for the McCanns, PeterMac.  

It's clear to me that NSY and the PJ are working together with one common aim in mind namely, to bring the perpetrators of heinous crimes against a 3 year old child to justice.

If this were not the case the investigative review undertaken by Operation Grange would have been concluded some time ago and, with the tacit approval of Portugal's judiciary, a statement would have been made to the effect that all that could have been done was done with efficiency and thoroughness by the PJ - just as if the abduction had taken place in the UK - and that the child's disappearance was an act of god circumstance over which the parents had no control... I could continue in this vein but, in the interest of avoiding any comparison being made between CM and myself, suffice it to say that the McCanns, while remaining social pariahs, would have been left with sufficient dignity to enable their lifestyle fund to limp on to its inevitable closure.

Instead, Grange's review was upgraded to a proactive MIT and, shortly thereafter, the PJ announced the re-opening of their shelved   investigation and, unless those on this forum who have devoted so much of their time to leaving no stone unturned when examining the case are not privy to certain material facts which could alter its entire complexion, I fail to see how these seemingly separate investigations can reach any conclusion which does not accord with that of the parents beiing complicit in the child's disappearance.

Is there any significance to be attached to Thursday 20 March? Were I the fine hand that I see reason to believe has been directing these proceedings for a number of years, I would have selected a date in early May, or possibly 30 March, as being particularly well suited to bring them to an end and, as the clocks will be going back at the end of this month, I would set the time for no later than 6.30am. big grin

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by marconi on 09.03.14 15:01

On November 28th, when Redwood thanked the public's reaction to the CW appeal, to identify the Smiths'
sighting, he referred to reactions from Praia da Luz. I wonder if those reactions will be the ones that will help the PJ and theYard to identify more witnesses. From the Ocean Club?

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by PeterMac on 09.03.14 15:06

@jeanmonroe wrote:
With newspaper 'headlines' awaiting:
"Zleb, X, Y, Z, BACK self confessed child neglectors"
"Zleb, X, Y, Z, say it's alright and responsible to leave you babies, alone in unlocked apartments abroad, out of sight, whilst dining with your friends"
Quite so.

World's most successful writer of children's stories backs self confessed . . .
Woman with ambitions to become Home Office Minister backs self confessed . . .
World renowned philanthropist who funds primary schools in third world countries backs self confessed . . .
Not surprising they jumped ship.

Even Mitchell has no reference to them on his political web site

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by jeanmonroe on 09.03.14 15:42

@PeterMac wrote:
@jeanmonroe wrote:
With newspaper 'headlines' awaiting:
"Zleb, X, Y, Z, BACK self confessed child neglectors"
"Zleb, X, Y, Z, say it's alright and responsible to leave you babies, alone in unlocked apartments abroad, out of sight, whilst dining with your friends"
Quite so.

World's most successful writer of children's stories backs self confessed . . .
Woman with ambitions to become Home Office Minister backs self confessed . . .
World renowned philanthropist who funds primary schools in third world countries backs self confessed . . .
Not surprising they jumped ship.

Even Mitchell has no reference to them on his political web site

Well Mr Mitchell should  have on his political 'site' advocating the McCanns 'responsible parenting' criteria.

According to Clarence Mitchell, we all do it - it's a British thing.

In an interview with RTE News, Clarence states that it's a cultural thing. Us Brits like to bathe our kids, get them to bed and leave them all alone.

Do you, as a parent resent being compared with the McCanns in this way?

This is quite a well balanced programme by RTE News Ireland, well worth a watch.

http://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/

Additional Details

Just wanted to add this point - Clarence Mitchell had been asked by the interviewer about the fact that the McCanns left their children alone in the apartment, night after night while they went out. His 'claim' was that it was a cultural thing - British people do that, it's the norm.
----------------------------------------
So that's alright then.

Mr Mitchell will, no doubt, offer his PR 'skills' (at a price, BUT only if they have established a 'search fund' for him to be paid from) to any parent that goes abroad, this summer, and 'loses' a child citing 'it's a cultural thing' and not the parents 'fault'

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by ultimaThule on 09.03.14 16:26

Since you put it like that, jeanmonroe, I'm considering acquiring a second home by the seaside... possibly in the delightful constituency of Brighton Pavillion in a part of Sussex known as London on Sea.  big grin

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by lj on 09.03.14 18:56

Dee Coy wrote:
comperedna5 wrote:Surely the Met can't want another huge mess in the press if they are found out in a cover up... again... as they surely would be in this case. They simply HAVE to keep their noses clean this time... Don't they?

Problem is, the review was ordered (by Rebekah Brooks - her desire to protect or expose the McCanns I still can't decide) almost 3 years ago before the damning revelations into their other cover-ups were thrust into an increasingly appalled public eye.

3 years ago, still secure under their undisclosed umbrella of corruption, who knows what the remit was? Although yes, certainly, recent exposure makes the Met position increasingly perilous. Could this precipitate a change of direction? Could they now start to prove what they already know to be the truth, or will they remain gagged by those above them?


Exactly. They might want to do the right thing now, now the knife is on their throat, but that does not mean they don't want to bury some skeletons in the process. Plus, in my experience, people don't learn. As long as one is not involved in something one knows the cover up is always the worse, and most of the times what will eventually give them away. Of course there must be some good cover ups, but we would not know that, would we? Are they in hot water, or up until the neck in mud, they always think they can pull it off. Andy must have been pulling his hair out when HH first pretended not to know operation Grange and than say they have the names of the suspects. It even makes you wonder how much HH really knows of the case. I have no doubt that many involved only know what they have been briefed, which might be anything but the truth. That does not mean they should not have looked further: of course. They do know how dubious the whole abduction story is. I hope they did not miss the arguido state of these "tormented" pathetic parents. But imagine what will happen if even SY comes to the conclusion the parents were involved. One of the first questions of Portugal would probably be: "what is in those papers that could do so much damage to the relationship with Portugal". It will also bring up the question what happened with the DNA, what was the role of the FSS and at whose orders? What were the actions of the British diplomats, and who instructed them? What other papers are there that would have been very helpful in 2007 but never made it to Portugal. Who was responsible for that?
Plus there will be the overall "why were the parents protected, was it indeed pure stupidity?".

Interesting times, but I have not much faith we will get to know it all. It is not only the police involved, but also foreign service, politicians. There would be a lot of heads rolling if all would be revealed. I would not be surprised if the current silence is being caused by a feverish effort to come to a theory that would be acceptable for all sides, probably giving the McCanns some resposibility, but not near to what they really are responsible for. Than quickly closed all books and throw them in the fire. Big stumbling stone would be that in Portugal by law the files have to published.
Just fantasizing of course.

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Re: PJ warns British police that they don't want to see the investigation in the papers

Post by marconi on 10.03.14 1:39

Have I heard it well?
On Crimewatch, about 30.30 minutes, Redwood talks about the afternoon that Maddie disappeared, and between 3.00pm and 5pm... a charity man colecting money...
A Freudian slip because he could know that she died in the afternoon?

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