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Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by plebgate on 27.02.14 14:22

Yes, could be that PeterM, but normally politicians are foaming at the mouth to make political capital out of opposition discomfort.

Bet it wont be raised on Question Time tonight either.

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by tasprin on 27.02.14 18:29

There can’t have been any misunderstanding at the time about the aims of PIE - the Paedophile Information Exchange - the name’s a dead giveaway for starters. The PIE organisation was nothing more than a vast paedophile ring - a group of perverts that advocated (and practised) the illegal activity of the abuse of children. A news report, which was broadcast just a couple of days ago, showed old film footage of anti-PIE protesters scuffling with police in 1977. There’s also many old  press articles from the 70s and 80s on the net and judging from the 1977 photos (below) it is obvious the media & the public were well aware of what PIE stood for.



19 September 1977 [Harriet Harman joined the NCCL in 1978] – Police hold back outraged mothers as they attack members of the paedophile information exchange with eggs, stink bombs and rotten-eggs as they arrived for their first open meeting in London at the Conway hall in Red Lion square
http://cigpapers.wordpress.com/2013/06/

Several members of PIE held positions in education and social work. Founder member Dr Morris Fraser, for instance, was a leading child psychiatrist, yet in 2013 Margaret Hodge gave an interview to the Guardian:
Margaret Hodge attempts to talk her way out of Islington paedophile scandal
In yesterday’s Guardian, Margaret Hodge spoke about her time as leader of Islington Council, when it was proved that a paedophile network had been sexually abusing vulnerable children in every one of the council’s children’s homes.
“All that happened when we didn’t really understand child abuse in the way that we understand it now. This was the early 90s … It was only beginning to emerge that paedophiles were working with children, in children’s homes and elsewhere…”
http://spotlightonabuse.wordpress.com/2013/04/28/margaret-hodge-attempts-to-talk-her-way-out-of-islington-paedophile-scandal/
Margaret Hodge’s second husband, Sir Henry Hodge, was chairman of the NCCL from 1974. PIE was founded in 1974 and was affiliated with the NCCL in 1975, one year after Henry Hodge became chairman.

In 1979, a year after Harman joined, the NCCL actually advertised for new members in PIE’s magazine ‘The Magpie’ (see today‘s Mail http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2568850/Harmans-pressure-group-advertised-members-magazine-paedophiles-New-evidence-links-NCCL-PIE-Harriet-legal-chief.html). Why was PIE, with its illegal aims & posing a direct threat to children, allowed to exist for so many years. It existed under both Labour & Conservative governments. PIE was founded only eight years after Brady and Hindley were sentenced for the abduction and murder of five children.

Imo, all of the political parties are staying well clear of this story; they’re not asking questions because they all know it is not a party political issue - they’d be only too happy to exploit it if it wasn’t for the skeletons in their own cupboards. There are politicians in all political parties that have been involved in paedophilia but for some reason it is much more difficult to bring a politician to justice than it is anyone else. PIE member Sir Peter Hayman, Diplomat and deputy director of MI5, was caught with paedophile material in 1978 but was not charged - police let him off with a warning which left him free to abuse children for another six years. From Wiki: ‘In 1981, Private Eye magazine revealed this event [Hayman‘s brush with the law in 1978]. Then, using parliamentary privilege, MP Geoffrey Dickens asked why Hayman had not been prosecuted. Later, on 29 November 1985, Dickens complained in the House of Commons that he had suffered harassment following his naming of Hayman. "The noose around my neck grew tighter after I named a former high-flying British diplomat on the Floor of the House. Honourable Members will understand that where big money is involved and as important names came into my possession so the threats began. First, I received threatening telephone calls followed by two burglaries at my London home. Then, more seriously, my name appeared on a multi-killer's hit list." The Independent newspaper in February 2013 [29 years too late] could find no corroboration for Dickens' claims in 1985. In May 1984, Hayman was sent to jail after being convicted of paedophiliac practices.’ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Hayman_(diplomat)

Eta: Iain Dale (Tory) backed Harman to the hilt on last nights Sky press review. In his opinion it was a revenge tactic by the Mail for Harman’s involvement in the Hacked Off campaign. Imo Harman’s involvement with Hacked Off was a tactic by her to prevent this story from ever surfacing in the MSM again, as it did in 2009 when the Telegraph covered it.
.

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by sallypelt on 27.02.14 18:48

@tasprin wrote:There can’t have been any misunderstanding at the time about the aims of PIE - the Paedophile Information Exchange - the name’s a dead giveaway for starters. The PIE organisation was nothing more than a vast paedophile ring - a group of perverts that advocated (and practised) the illegal activity of the abuse of children. A news report, which was broadcast just a couple of days ago, showed old film footage of anti-PIE protesters scuffling with police in 1977. There’s also many old  press articles from the 70s and 80s on the net and judging from the 1977 photos (below) it is obvious the media & the public were well aware of what PIE stood for.



19 September 1977 [Harriet Harman joined the NCCL in 1978] – Police hold back outraged mothers as they attack members of the paedophile information exchange with eggs, stink bombs and rotten-eggs as they arrived for their first open meeting in London at the Conway hall in Red Lion square
http://cigpapers.wordpress.com/2013/06/

Several members of PIE held positions in education and social work. Founder member Dr Morris Fraser, for instance, was a leading child psychiatrist, yet in 2013 Margaret Hodge gave an interview to the Guardian:
Margaret Hodge attempts to talk her way out of Islington paedophile scandal
In yesterday’s Guardian, Margaret Hodge spoke about her time as leader of Islington Council, when it was proved that a paedophile network had been sexually abusing vulnerable children in every one of the council’s children’s homes.
“All that happened when we didn’t really understand child abuse in the way that we understand it now. This was the early 90s … It was only beginning to emerge that paedophiles were working with children, in children’s homes and elsewhere…”
http://spotlightonabuse.wordpress.com/2013/04/28/margaret-hodge-attempts-to-talk-her-way-out-of-islington-paedophile-scandal/
Margaret Hodge’s second husband, Sir Henry Hodge, was chairman of the NCCL from 1974. PIE was founded in 1974 and was affiliated with the NCCL in 1975, one year after Henry Hodge became chairman.

In 1979, a year after Harman joined, the NCCL actually advertised for new members in PIE’s magazine ‘The Magpie’ (see today‘s Mail http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2568850/Harmans-pressure-group-advertised-members-magazine-paedophiles-New-evidence-links-NCCL-PIE-Harriet-legal-chief.html). Why was PIE, with its illegal aims & posing a direct threat to children, allowed to exist for so many years. It existed under both Labour & Conservative governments. PIE was founded only eight years after Brady and Hindley were sentenced for the abduction and murder of five children.

Imo, all of the political parties are staying well clear of this story; they’re not asking questions because they all know it is not a party political issue - they’d be only too happy to exploit it if it wasn’t for the skeletons in their own cupboards. There are politicians in all political parties that have been involved in paedophilia but for some reason it is much more difficult to bring a politician to justice than it is anyone else. PIE member Sir Peter Hayman, Diplomat and deputy director of MI5, was caught with paedophile material in 1978 but was not charged - police let him off with a warning which left him free to abuse children for another six years. From Wiki: ‘In 1981, Private Eye magazine revealed this event [Hayman‘s brush with the law in 1978]. Then, using parliamentary privilege, MP Geoffrey Dickens asked why Hayman had not been prosecuted. Later, on 29 November 1985, Dickens complained in the House of Commons that he had suffered harassment following his naming of Hayman. "The noose around my neck grew tighter after I named a former high-flying British diplomat on the Floor of the House. Honourable Members will understand that where big money is involved and as important names came into my possession so the threats began. First, I received threatening telephone calls followed by two burglaries at my London home. Then, more seriously, my name appeared on a multi-killer's hit list." The Independent newspaper in February 2013 [29 years too late] could find no corroboration for Dickens' claims in 1985. In May 1984, Hayman was sent to jail after being convicted of paedophiliac practices.’ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Hayman_(diplomat)

Eta: Iain Dale (Tory) backed Harman to the hilt on last nights Sky press review. In his opinion it was a revenge tactic by the Mail for Harman’s involvement in the Hacked Off campaign. Imo Harman’s involvement with Hacked Off was a tactic by her to prevent this story from ever surfacing in the MSM again, as it did in 2009 when the Telegraph covered it.
.
Eta: Iain Dale (Tory) backed Harman to the hilt on last nights Sky press review. In his opinion it was a revenge tactic by the Mail for Harman’s involvement in the Hacked Off campaign. Imo Harman’s involvement with Hacked Off was a tactic by her to prevent this story from ever surfacing in the MSM again, as it did in 2009 when the Telegraph covered it.

How can exposing the truth about someone in high authority, who is connected to such a disgusting organisation, such as PIE, be considered as "REVENGE"???

I have said it many times before, and I will keep on repeating it; this country's establishment is rotten to the core. It needs tearing down to get rid of the filth. There's no other way.

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by mouse on 27.02.14 19:00

Hi Tasparin

Good to see this thread still alive....just. And thanks for info posted. I agree with you, none of the parties want to discuss this one, probably for fear that it could backfire on them. So, so sad, this game of party politics all parties are playing. To put children before their own political careers is absolutely disgusting...I had hoped that one of the MPs - I think one Tory MP from Reading was pushing for more answers on this, he had pushed a hell of a lot on the Jimmy Saville/BBC issue before. But maybe they've put a gag on him for now. I had hoped that he may raise this issue in PMQs on Wednesday....but no such luck.

Where are their morals? I guess their career and expenses take priority. But how can they sleep at night knowing this stuff. I'm hoping that the DM is sitting on some dynamite story to be published this weekend. To just let this drop when the info is there documented for everyone to see is unbelieveable. 

As for Iain Dale...Well I've been disappointed in his view for some time now. I used to find him funny/entertaining, but these days he doesn't seem to have the passion he once had. Shame on him for backing Harriet Harman. But I guess him being a Tory supporter and being in publishing and in the media - he's obviously playing the game.

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by tasprin on 27.02.14 20:11

Daily MAIL
BREAKING NEWS: 'I got it wrong on Paedophile Information Exchange': Patricia Hewitt finally apologises over group's links to National Council for Civil Liberties when she was its boss

Former Labour cabinet minister was general secretary of NCCL in 1970s
Hewitt says she takes responsibility for the mistakes made at the time
65-year-old adds that NCCL was 'naive and wrong' over links with PIE
By Mark Duell and Michael Seamark and Paul Bentley and Andy Dolan

27 February 2014  

'I got it wrong on PIE and I apologise for having done so': Former Labour cabinet minister Patricia Hewitt
Former Labour cabinet minister Patricia Hewitt has said the National Council for Civil Liberties was ‘naive and wrong’ over its links with the Paedophile Information Exchange.
In her first public comments since the latest controversy broke, Miss Hewitt said that as general secretary of the NCCL in the 1970s, she took responsibility for the mistakes that had been made at that time.
‘I got it wrong on PIE and I apologise for having done so,’ she said in a statement.
Miss Hewitt, 65, who said she had been away for the past 12 days while the controversy was raging in the the press, said any suggestion that she had condoned or supported the ‘vile crimes’ of child abusers was completely untrue.
However she acknowledged that she should have done more to protect the integrity of the NCCL from the activities of PIE, which was allowed to join the organisation as an affiliate member.
‘NCCL in the 1970s, along with many others, was naive and wrong to accept PIE's claim to be a "campaigning and counselling organisation" that "does not promote unlawful acts",’ she said.
‘As general secretary then, I take responsibility for the mistakes we made. I got it wrong on PIE and I apologise for having done so.
‘I should have urged the executive committee to take stronger measures to protect NCCL's integrity from the activities of PIE members and sympathisers and I deeply regret not having done so.’

Sick: The NCCL ran an appeal for members next to a picture of a young boy in what appears to be a PE kit

In particular she said that PIE member Tom O'Carroll should never have been allowed to join the NCCL's gay rights sub-committee.
Miss Hewitt said that a proposal by the NCCL to reduce the age of consent had not been hers, although she acknowledged that it had been the policy of the organisation and the executive committee.
‘I do not support reducing the age of consent or legalising incest,’ she said. ‘As the NCCL archives demonstrate, I consistently distinguished between consenting relationships between homosexual men, on the one hand, and the abuse of children on the other.’

She defended the roles played by Labour deputy leader Harriet Harman and her husband Jack Dromey - who is also a Labour frontbencher - who were both prominent figures in the NCCL
‘When Jack Dromey, as NCCL chairman in 1976, vigorously opposed PIE at the NCCL AGM, he did so with the full support of the executive committee and myself as general secretary,’ she said.

‘Harriet did not join the NCCL staff until 1978. She was one of two legal officers, neither of whom was a member of the executive committee.’

Miss Hewitt said that there were still lessons to be learned about the need to protect children from sexual abuse but said that she was proud of the achievements of the NCCL during her time as general secretary.
‘NCCL in the 1970s played a leading role in anti-discrimination and equality campaigns. We helped to secure the Sex Discrimination Act, anonymity for rape victims and an end to discriminatory immigration rules against British women with a foreign husband. We also built support for equalising the age of consent for homosexual men - a change eventually made in 1998,’ she said.
‘Although the evil of child sexual abuse is now properly recognised, as a society we still have a long way to go in protecting children, tackling the sexualisation of girls and supporting the survivors of sexual abuse. I hope the lessons that are being learnt from the mistakes of the 1970s will contribute to those goals.’

Yesterday, it emerged that the NCCL placed a recruitment advert for new members in the house magazine of the notorious PIE.

Harriet Harman has expressed regret that a civil liberties group she and her husband Jack Dromey MP worked for in the 1970s had links with a pro-paedophile campaigning group
Miss Harman and Mr Dromey said PIE was banished before she became the NCCL’s legal officer in 1978.
But disturbing new evidence contradicted this claim - and revealed further embarrassingly close ties between the NCCL and the paedophile group campaigning to legalise sex with children.
It was revealed that in 1979, an edition of Magpie, PIE’s official journal, carried the NCCL appeal for new members in an appalling ‘Year of the Child’ edition.

Fees: The advert in PIE's in-house magazine listed membership prices

And it also emerged that Miss Hewitt shared a conference platform with PIE leader Tom O’Carroll in 1977.
Details of the new links came as O’Carroll claimed the two women ‘didn’t even try’ to remove the paedophile group from the NCCL in case it harmed their careers.
The three senior Labour figures all held key roles in the council – which astonishingly granted ‘affiliate’ status to the group of predatory paedophiles that was calling for the age of consent to be cut to just four.

When Miss Harman earlier this week belatedly expressed ‘regret’ – but refused to apologise – for PIE being allowed to forge links with the NCCL, she said the paedophile group ‘had been pushed to the margin’ before she began working there.
Yet, during the year after she took up her post, the NCCL advert appeared in PIE’s April journal.
It ran inside a shocking 24-page special edition of the magazine – the cover of which shows a picture of a young boy wearing only a small pair of shorts as he plays tennis.
On an inside page the council’s advert appears alongside two more pictures of young boys in provocative poses, including one in what appears to be a PE kit, sitting down with his legs apart.
It invites Magpie readers to ‘join the NCCL’ and boasts that the organisation is ‘working to protect and extend human rights in the UK’. The appeal for new members and donations was published after a feature titled: Child porn, a heterosexual viewpoint.
The journal, sent to PIE members, included news on paedophiles, articles on child porn and cartoons mocking assaults on children. These depicted abuse in a scout master’s tent, naked children and adults queuing up outside a bedroom for an ‘assault course’.

'I should have urged the executive committee to take stronger measures to protect NCCL's integrity from the activities of PIE members and sympathisers and I deeply regret not having done so'
Patricia Hewitt

The ‘year of the child’ edition – a distasteful twist on the UN designating 1979 as the ‘International Year of the Child’ – came with a ‘contact page’, which members could use to get in touch with other paedophiles, share images and advertise for children to abuse.
Miss Hewitt shared a platform with PIE founder O’Carroll at a gay rights conference organised by the NCCL.
The former Labour minister appeared with him at the one-day event entitled ‘A Fairer Deal for Homosexuals’ and organised by the council’s Gay Rights Committee.
A cutting from the left-wing Morning Star, said Miss Hewitt ‘spoke of the council’s work on gay rights over the past two years’.
An item in Magpie from May 1977 confirms that O’Carroll addressed the NCCL conference.

Caught up in the scandal: Miss Harman and her MP husband Jack Dromey (pictured) said PIE was banished before she became the NCCL's legal officer in 1978
Under the heading ‘Notes and news’, it states: ‘Tom O’Carroll, our secretary, was one of two speakers talking about the treatment of sexual offenders in prison at the one day-conference organised by the Gay Rights Committee of the NCCL on May 14th.’

O’Carroll condemned the practice of chemical castration of paedophiles during a discussion at the event.
A file about the conference in the archives of the NCCL – which later became the respected pressure group Liberty – at the Hull History Centre contains a paper O’Carroll prepared on chemical castration, which was due to be included in a booklet by the council published in 1978.
But Miss Hewitt objected to the essay’s inclusion and said the group should be trying to destroy the myth that ‘gay men are also paedophiles’, not add to the confusion by ‘including a paper about the treatment of paedophile offenders in a pamphlet on gay rights’.
In a memo in June 1978, she reported encountering opposition to her decision to pull O’Carroll’s work from her own gay rights sub-committee.
It states that the NCCL Executive Committee would have to decide whether or not to include O’Carroll’s work in the pamphlet. A copy of what appears to be the final version in the file does not contain O’Carroll’s piece.

'As general secretary then, I take responsibility for the mistakes we made. I got it wrong on PIE and I apologise for having done so'
Patricia Hewitt

Documents from both groups also reveal how, in the first half of 1977, the NCCL went in to bat for PIE when the vile group believed it had been slighted by a judge during his sentencing of a man convicted of blackmailing one of its member.
Edited extracts from the correspondence reprinted in Magpie show how the NCCL described it as a ‘campaigning’ organisation. The letters were apparently written by Nettie Pollard, NCCL’s gay rights organiser.

Speaking to the Radio 4 Today Programme O’Carroll said: ‘At the time Harman and Hewitt couldn’t just kick us out, or they could but they didn’t try. The reason was their careers in the NCCL depended upon them not rocking the boat too much.’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2569570/Patricia-Hewitt-breaks-silence-groups-links-National-Council-Civil-Liberties-boss.html#ixzz2uYS8DqJP

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by mouse on 27.02.14 20:43

Good to hear that the DM have not given up on this story. I had wondered if Patricia Hewitt might come out and apologise as her silence has become as they say very deafening.  It now really puts the story well and truly back in Hattie and Hubbies court. Time they did the right thing - and time for all the political parties to demand a thorough investigation into this matter.

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by tasprin on 27.02.14 23:05

This isn't going away, as they had hoped



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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by Mirage on 27.02.14 23:34

http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-up/

'Gobsmacking interview with Steve Coogan on Channel 4 News (Jon Snow).

He didn't address the issue of PIE at all but ranted on about the Mail printing pictures of young girls (same spin as Harman) and then went on about the Mail needing to apologise for Lord Rothermere's pro Hitler stance in the 1930's!!! He ended with a vitriolic spiel about Paul Dacre's hate-filled agenda!!! Jon Snow joined in with the sniping - even more astonishing from a man who has talked of a kidnap attempt on him by a paedophile when a chorister schoolboy at Winchester.

Unbelievable that neither of these men discussed PIE or the abuse of children.

____________________
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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by mouse on 28.02.14 10:38

Yeah, its really not going away is it. G.Fawkes on his site has a story now on Jacky Dromney's porkie pies, apparently. And it seems the BBC (surprise, surprise) gave an interview to PIE on their Newsnight Prog. in 1983. (can't find the link, I'm sure somebody can). Did they give a platform for this disgusting group's opinions? And wasn't it Newsnight that dropped the JS Exposure......? Surely, someone should have been asking questions way back then....Sadly, even in the wake of Saville - they still don't even seem to be asking them today.


What will the Sunday Tabloids bring I wonder?

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by sallypelt on 28.02.14 10:56

In 1976 both PIE and PAL had been asked to help the Albany Trust to produce a booklet on paedophilia which was to have been published by the Trust. This collaboration was 'uncovered' by Mary Whitehouse, who alleged that public funds were being used indirectly to subsidize 'paedophile groups'. The Albany Trust was partly supported by government grants. The Trustees decided not to publish the booklet, saying that it wasn't sufficiently 'objective'. A year later a question relating to the incident was asked in the House of Commons by Sir Bernard Braine but, despite a statement by Home Office Minister Brynmor John that there was no evidence of public money going to PIE, the issue was drawn out into 1978 in the letters pages of The Guardian and The Times.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albany_Trust

Mary Whitehouse was onto it as far back as 1976.

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by plebgate on 28.02.14 11:20

The BBC did allow a question about this on Question Time last night, but IMO the panel were not very good at dealing with it and ended more or less sayng that it was in the 70's and it was all different then.   One MP said it was wrong then as it is now now.   They agreed, but most seemed to thinks Harman was naive and should have said sorry from the beginning and then it was dealt with.

One panel member, long haired guy, restaurant critic and food writer (I think) thought it was revenege and picking on labour by the Mail.  zzzzzzzzz

That was it more or less.

The Sun have now joined in, so it is not going away.

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by tasprin on 28.02.14 12:34

The contributors on the Sky press review, Stig Abell of The Sun and Journalist Jenny Kleeman (author of Stolen Childhood - about Liberian children growing up with the constant threat of rape) seemed at pains to excuse Harman, Dromey & Hewitt of any responsibility for what happened. There was virtually nothing said about the child victims and some of the comments were staggering>> There is some truth the Mail were looking into it for political reasons… Ultimately this is a PR story… This is a big cock-up in managing a bad story…This story should have been killed in the water... The Sun headline is a bit unfair... The world was ridiculous in the 70s... They were letting ideals & libertarianism cloud their moral judgement... It was the times... Is there any defence that it was the free-love of the 1970s man?... I think there is some defence because things do change... Social mores change very rapidly... Until 1991 it was legal for a man to rape his wife... And last but not least, an astonishing comment from Stig Abell, "If you believe in libertarianism you will be giving tacit consent to all kinds of crazy things sometimes. If you believe the state should back off, if you believe people should make their own decisions, if you believe in allowing things unless there's absolute proof absolute of harm [WTF!] that will cloud your views sometimes and that's what happened".

I don’t believe they were sympathisers of PIE and, in fact, from what I’ve read recently, they apparently viewed PIE with distaste which suggests they knew exactly what the aims of the group were (how could they not?) but they seemingly dealt with it by turning a blind eye. Maybe they chose to turn a blind eye because a few members of PIE, in an effort to legitimise themselves, had infiltrated the Gay Rights movement (CHE) and the NCCL didn't want to derail or discredit CHE by creating a stink about a few paedophiles in its midst (and luckily for them there is no such thing as a childrens liberation movement). How else was it possible for PIE, an organisation that promoted child abuse, and whose members were responsible for the systematic abuse of children, allowed to exist for so long, and under the under the umbrella of NCCL? What became of the child victims? How many of them in adulthood descended into drink, drugs, depression or eating disorders.? How many of them ended up in psychiatric units or prison or dead? What is the long term cost to society of the physical, psychological and sexual abuse of children? This would have been an ideal opportunity for media commentators to ask some questions but they're not interested, they seem more inclined to draw a line under it imo.


The Needleblog

My view has not changed.

This issue should not be a political football kicked from one political team to another with greater and greater spin because at the very heart of all  of this are victims.

Is it incumbent on Harriet Harman to resign ? I don’t think so but she should take the time to explain how this happened because at worst it looks as if she turned a blind eye to child abuse.

Many commentators I’ve heard or read over the last week, regardless of their political affiliation, seem to consign this disgraceful episode to  the past. I’ve not seen one person on TV or in the newspapers who has attempted to examine the consequences of the 10 years, 1974-1984, that PIE were able to legally operate.

PIE laid the foundation for underground paedophile networks after 1984. They were organised and ready when the internet emerged and were some of the first to take advantage of its potential.

PIE might not be legal, the networks it spawned may no longer exist but the consequences of PIE have reverberated through the decades and as it has done, it has left many child abuse victims in it’s wake.

It needs to be examined.
http://theneedleblog.wordpress.com/

1983 BBC Newsnight interview with two members of  the Paedophile Information Exchange. Incredible that the BBC gave airtime to these perverts and may explain why it initially refused to report on this story
http://theneedleblog.wordpress.com

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by russiandoll on 28.02.14 15:40

Glad to see the truth exposed instead of people like Harman and her supporters arguing...it was not us but the vile group affiliated to us ! And there were so many we didn't know what they were up to, and took money from them.  The below is PROOF that the NCCL were behind this and on last night's Question Time one person clearly said that the NCCL, not PIE, tried to put this proposal before Parliament.

 Stephen Fry is doing a Jay Rayner on Twitter.the nasty Mail trying to smear HH. I thought he had a towering intellect.



NCCL paedophilia scandal: Harriet Harman and Jack Dromey will have to resign
 
By Toby Young Politics Last updated: February 28th, 2014
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Press release issued by the NCCL in 1976
I still can’t quite believe it. But here’s the evidence in black and white. In 1976, the NCCL put out a press release proposing that the age of consent be lowered to 14 “with special provisions for situations where the partners are close in age, or where consent of a child over ten can be proved”. So let me get this straight. If the NCCL had had its way, a paedophile could induce a 10-year-old child to have sex with him and, provided he could "prove" he or she had consented, that child's parents would have no legal redress?
As a father of a 10-year-old girl, that fills me with horror. Even if the NCCL had no links with the Paedophile Information Exchange, that would have been morally repugnant. The very idea that a 10-year-old is in a position to "consent" is absurd – blatantly and transparently absurd. But it's worse, far worse than that, because we now know that the NCCL was taking this line, at least in part, at the behest of a group of notorious paedophiles. In 1975, Patricia Hewitt, the general secretary of the NCCL, wrote to the chairman of PIE to thank him for a letter he had written her arguing that the age of consent should be lowered. "We have found your evidence… most helpful and I think it has certainly been taken into account by the people preparing our evidence," she wrote. Sure enough, the following year, the NCCL began lobbying Parliament to have the age of consent lowered to 10. Not only was Patricia Hewitt the general secretary at that time, but Jack Dromey was on the executive committee and he was at the meeting where it was agreed that the NCCL would take this line.
In a statement issued yesterday, Dromey, who is Labour's shadow policing minister, said he was "a lifelong opponent of evil men who abuse children". If that's true, why did he approve the NCCL's decision to lobby for the age of consent to be lowered to 10? Didn't it occur to him that a change in the law along those lines would leave children more vulnerable to abuse by evil men – men in the group "affiliated" to the NCCL and who had been asking the NCCL to take this line? Incredibly, he still hasn't apologised for helping to run an organisation that was linked to a group of paedophiles and nor has his wife, Harriet Harman, the NCCL's legal officer from 1978 to 1982. Instead, they both continue to attack the Daily Mail.
More on the NCCL scandal
Hewitt apology blows Harman’s defence out of the water
This scandal is a disaster of Labour's own making
Harriet Harman owes the British public a full explanation

Harman and Dromey's handling of this scandal has been an object lesson in how not to do it. If Harman had taken the opportunity to apologise when she was interviewed on Newsnight on Monday, this story would have gone away by now. Instead, the nation woke up to this headline on the front page of The Sun this morning:

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by mouse on 28.02.14 16:14

Thanks Tasparin for posting that link to Newsnight clip.

I have heard what was was said on QT now - basically Harriet has handled this badly, the DM are out for revenge etc, etc. The media are collectively (for what ever reason) trotting out the same lines - you might think they've received a written statement - the type of line to take winkwink . Nowhere are we hearing - what about the poor children who were abused by those in PIE (and we know some have been found guilty as charged) let alone how they attempted to make underage sex normal, socially acceptable. Exactly how many children were abused on the back of this campaign I wonder. No, the BBC and the MPS are only concerned with the way it is handled....Much like the way the Jimmy Saville incident has been hidden by all the distraction of the way the BBC dealt with it.

You have to remember, Harriet is always the first to TV sofa hop when ever a minister in the Government is facing a difficult question. She is like a Rochweiler with a bone - she won't let it go! But apparently a Tory MP who allegedly swore and called someone a pleb because he couldn't ride his bike through the right gate is much more newsworthy, scandalous than herself working for an organisation who publically supported Under Age Sex and lowing the age of consent. Apparently it appears the media (bar the DM & now the Sun) and all the political parties agree with her too. How they can find this more headline grabbing, and worthy of calls for someone's head than child abuse I just do not understand.

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by Guest on 01.03.14 8:00

@russiandoll wrote:

 Stephen Fry is doing a Jay Rayner on Twitter.the nasty Mail trying to smear HH. I thought he had a towering intellect.


No reflection on you RD, and I'm sure you were being ironic, but the best description of Fry I ever heard was something along the lines of "He's a stupid person's idea of what an intelligent person is like".

I find Coogan's promotion to being the soothing voice of reason rather vomit inducing too. It's just all so.... contrived. I rarely take in the mainstream media these days. If you stop for a while, then go back, you see just how clownish it really is. That's why comedians who haven't done one amusing thing for twenty years, if ever, can be mistaken for heavyweight commentators.

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by PeterMac on 01.03.14 8:24

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
No reflection on you RD, and I'm sure you were being ironic, but the best description of Fry I ever heard was something along the lines of "He's a stupid person's idea of what an intelligent person is like".
Very good.

Gay, AND bi-polar. There's chic

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Mail really going for the jugular and NAMING NAMES

Post by PeterMac on 01.03.14 9:21

Too long to copy.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570675/The-Lefts-web-shame-Its-not-just-Harman-Dromey-Hewitt-As-reveal-members-Britains-ruling-liberal-elite-held-senior-posts-NCCL-closely-linked-paedophiles.html

The Left's web of shame: It's not just Harman, Dromey and Hewitt. As we reveal, many other members of Britain's ruling liberal elite held senior posts at the NCCL when it was closely linked to paedophiles
Chief coroner Peter Thornton and lawyer Geoffrey Robertson among them
They were at National Council for Civil Liberties in late 70s and early 80s
Group called for consent age to be lowered to 14 or even 10 in some cases


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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by mouse on 01.03.14 15:18

@PeterMac wrote:Too long to copy.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570675/The-Lefts-web-shame-Its-not-just-Harman-Dromey-Hewitt-As-reveal-members-Britains-ruling-liberal-elite-held-senior-posts-NCCL-closely-linked-paedophiles.html

The Left's web of shame: It's not just Harman, Dromey and Hewitt. As we reveal, many other members of Britain's ruling liberal elite held senior posts at the NCCL when it was closely linked to paedophiles
Chief coroner Peter Thornton and lawyer Geoffrey Robertson among them
They were at National Council for Civil Liberties in late 70s and early 80s
Group called for consent age to be lowered to 14 or even 10 in some cases

Ta for posting that PeterMac

Just read the DM article - well there's a surprise the Labour Party, and its supporters seem to have quite a few connections to the NCCL - so its also not a surprise that Harriet Harman apparently received a round of applause at the Labour Spring Confererence today. Her hubby who was questioned about the incident was very unconvincing in what he had to say - that he took on PIE.... Hmm that has yet to be proven. From what we have heard so far he didn't do anything to get the party kicked out.

Geoffry Robinson being the Rogues Gallery does not also shock. He's always left me feeling uncomfortable with some of his views, his wife too - Kathy Lette - can't stand her. V.Good friends of Gordon Browne apparently.

Will the Sunday Paper expose something more - possibly more on Harriet, or perhaps the other parties.....?

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by tasprin on 01.03.14 19:30

@mouse wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:Too long to copy.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570675/The-Lefts-web-shame-Its-not-just-Harman-Dromey-Hewitt-As-reveal-members-Britains-ruling-liberal-elite-held-senior-posts-NCCL-closely-linked-paedophiles.html

The Left's web of shame: It's not just Harman, Dromey and Hewitt. As we reveal, many other members of Britain's ruling liberal elite held senior posts at the NCCL when it was closely linked to paedophiles
Chief coroner Peter Thornton and lawyer Geoffrey Robertson among them
They were at National Council for Civil Liberties in late 70s and early 80s
Group called for consent age to be lowered to 14 or even 10 in some cases

Ta for posting that PeterMac

Just read the DM article - well there's a surprise the Labour Party, and its supporters seem to have quite a few connections to the NCCL - so its also not a surprise that Harriet Harman apparently received a round of applause at the Labour Spring Confererence today. Her hubby who was questioned about the incident was very unconvincing in what he had to say - that he took on PIE.... Hmm that has yet to be proven. From what we have heard so far he didn't do anything to get the party kicked out.

Geoffry Robinson being the Rogues Gallery does not also shock. He's always left me feeling uncomfortable with some of his views, his wife too - Kathy Lette - can't stand her. V.Good friends of Gordon Browne apparently.

Will the Sunday Paper expose something more - possibly more on Harriet, or perhaps the other parties.....?

That she got a round of applause today is no surprise, mouse. I’ve come to the conclusion they all knew about PIE and its affiliation with the NCCL (and a whole lot more besides) and they turned a blind eye. They don’t want the public to know that, and that is why imo the vast majority of commentators, of all political persuasions, have endeavoured to minimize it and brush it back under the carpet where they think it belongs.

According to Harriet Harman and her supporters, PIE’s affiliation with the NCCL is an outdated issue. Not so her long running campaign against The Sun's Page 3. For years Harman has run a vociferous campaign and in an interview with Andrew Neil, in November 2013, she said she ‘disapproved’ of The Sun’s Page 3 since the 1970s. So… at the time Harman was working for the NCCL in the 70s and simultaneously worrying about The Sun newspaper’s objectification of women, the NCCL was advertising (to recruit new NCCL members) in ‘Magpie’ the Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE) magazine - a magazine designed for and by child predators and illegally advocating the abuse of children and seeking to lower the age of consent. Harman can’t have been unaware that PIE was affiliated to the NCCL. According to 70s archives, not only were the aims of PIE widely reported but the public had actively protested against it prior to Harman joining the NCCL.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

BBC Newsnight: Harriet Harman on stopping The Sun Page 3. 28 Sept 12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EehYQRbF30
Neil Wallis (Former Sun reporter) and Harriet Harman, interviewed by BBC presenter Emily Maitland. Far from being an objective interviewer, Emily Maitland came across as contemptuous of Wallis, ganging up with Harman from the off. Wallis was more convincing than either of them - a (very, very) waffling Harman and disdainful Maitland.

Neil Wallis: I think that its slightly the wrong way round, the question now, this is really about :does this matter enough that women are campaigning against it, about an issue like this, when frankly there’s far more important issues?…
But I don’t really think there’s an issue about it being in debate, because nobody really cares. The truth is there are many issues. For instance, in the papers this morning, it is full of the stories of how police and social workers have ignored for years the sex exploitation of children. Now that’s an issue to campaign on. That’s an issue to have a petition about.


Towards the end of the interview Maitland remarked that quite a few high profile people had signed the petition as if that somehow gave more weight to the campaign, to which Wallis replied, “But what does high profile have to do with it? You know, the fact that a bunch of comedians and actresses might sign up because they think it’s going to get some brownie points - So what?”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I’m not a fan of The Sun but in the great scheme of things, and given what children and adults are subjected to nowadays, the Page 3 campaign really is irrelevant to the 21st century. Some of the women who have signed this petition have appeared nude themselves, including their latest recruit, actress Gemma Chan, so what‘s their point? As Wallis says there are far more important issues to campaign about. In 2011 Harman told LBC, "I think there might be a ganging up of the girls (very un-PC) in the House of Commons against Page 3”. If she and her supporters really want to do something useful why don’t they campaign to expose the scandalous cover-ups of child abuse throughout the UK in the past few decades?

The MPs letter (below) calling for the end of Page 3 has been signed by hundreds of MPs, MEPs and Local Councillors. I wonder if Harman had a word with her ex-colleague Jacqui Smith about hubby watching porn and charging it to the taxpayer - I guess it‘s ok to ‘objectify’ in private eh!. It’s a shame Harman turned a blind eye to the Paedophile Information Exchange in the 70s, but wouldn't it be great if she and her fellow MPs put as much effort into protecting children from predators as they have this pointless campaign (including the huge problem of familial abuse/incest which NCCL tried to legalise).

Letter to the Editor signed by MPs
Dear David Dinsmore,
We write to lend our support to the No More Page 3 Campaign. As MPs our role is to serve the people, and we cannot remain silent in the presence of a page that limits and misrepresents over half the population. The largest female image in our most widely-read newspaper is of a semi-naked young woman. She is there purely for the sexual gratification of men. This is unacceptable.
We want to live in a society where the most widely-read newspaper is one that respects women. Instead, The Sun publishes Page 3, which reduces women to objects. It reduces men to objectifiers. And it reduces this country to one that upholds 1970s sexist values. We’re better than this.
Please remove these damaging pictures from your newspaper.
Yours sincerely,
Signed by
http://nomorepage3.org/letter-to-the-editor-signed-by-mps/

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by Guest on 01.03.14 21:45





Nick Sutton ‏@suttonnick · 27 mins
Sunday People: Alleged £70,000 given to Paedophile Information Exchange ­between 1977 and 1980 (via @ian_pace) http://bit.ly/ONQpvo


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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by Guest on 01.03.14 23:02

It's foul and rife. But not unique to any  particular political party - in fact it's necessary to its very existence that their deviant perpetrators infiltrate all establishment organizations. Their foul practices would have been whistle-blown and exposed decades ago by the gleeful opposition if they restricted themselves to just one political persuasion. We are seeing an example of this now, in that the right wing Mail have seen fit to point the finger at NCCL and PIE. The silence and in fact the tentative support Harman and co. have received from their political foes as well as their allies tells us all. Paedophilia is organised and every political base covered so it cannot be quashed.

Leaving aside the question of paedophilia, anyone think Patricia (Oppenheimer) Hodge truly holds left-wing values? Really? She's made politics a career within the Labour party for a reason. Has Harman got the interests of the working man at heart? Did Blair? Brown? They're all there for their own advancement and rise to power. Some have other, additional and fouler objectives. What is certain is that they are as far apart in their values from Keir Hardie as it is possible to be. They've all become conservatives in that their prerogative is the conservation of themselves, their power, and the freedom to practice just what the hell they like, which the power gives them.

They have become mirror images of their enemies, the Tories, who, of course, have been up to their er, necks in this all along. Let's not forget this. The Tory Monday Club, anyone?


https://www.scriptonitedaily.com/2013/12/18/uk-establishment-closes-ranks-as-organised-paedophile-network-leads-back-to-no-10/

Please, all those who are rubbing their hands at this marvellous exposure as a victory against the corrupt 'left' just stop it. It is a victory against paedophilia and corruption. A very tiny and ultimately meaningless one. Because this sickness is everywhere, in all echelons of power. It has to be, to continue existing.

All my - cynical - opinion.

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by tasprin on 01.03.14 23:02

MIRROR

Huge sums of TAXPAYER'S cash 'handed to vile child-sex pervert group' by Home Office officials

Mar 01, 2014 By Keir Mudie, Nick Dorman

An alleged £70,000 was given to the Paedophile Information Exchange ­between 1977 and 1980 under Labour and then Margaret Thatcher’s first government.


[PIE member and deputy head of MI6 Sir Peter Hayman was exposed in parliament by MP Geoffrey Dickens]

Huge sums of taxpayers’ cash were handed to child-sex perverts by Home Office officials , according to shock new claims revealed by the Sunday People. A total of £70,000 is said to have been given to the Paedophile Information Exchange ­between 1977 and 1980 under Labour and then Margaret Thatcher’s first Tory government. That’s worth more than £400,000 in today’s money. At the time PIE was pushing for the age of consent to be cut to FOUR. The claims are being ­investigated by Scotland Yard after a whistleblower named the senior civil servant he said had signed off the payments. Last night Labour MP Tom Watson said: “It’s a remarkable state of affairs and the Home Secretary must make sure a ­report is presented as soon as possible. “If the allegations are true, it shows how insidious an organisation PIE was that they could even convince the Home Office to give them taxpayers’ money.”

PIE began its vile activities in 1974 and its tentacles quickly spread into the upper ­echelons of the establishment. Last week it emerged senior Labour politicians Harriet Harman , her husband Jack Dromey and Patricia Hewitt had been involved with the National Council for Civil Liberties at a time PIE was affiliated to it. Now an ex-Home Office worker claims successive governments backed PIE with YOUR cash. The whistleblower said civil servant Clifford Hindley was the man who rubber-stamped the PIE grants around 1980. Hindley, who unusually for the time was openly gay, was well known in Whitehall as a pal of Jeremy Thorpe, the ex-Liberal leader who was acquitted in a sensational murder trial. The two often dined together at London’s Reform Club and Hindley took Thorpe out for lunch on the day the politician learnt he was going to be tried. The whistleblower has now contacted Operation Fernbridge, a Metropolitan Police task force probing paedophile networks.

Menaced: Geoffrey Dickens

He told them he saw a PIE grant application covering three years, which he recalled totalled £35,000. He believed it was a renewal – suggesting a similar grant had been given in 1977 under the previous Labour government. It means PIE probably got at least £70,000 from the taxpayer. The whistleblower took the document to Hindley, the head of the Voluntary Services United, a branch of the Home Office that awarded grants to charities and non-profit groups. But he alleges Hindley, who is now dead, took the paperwork from him and told him to drop the matter. After brushing aside his concerns, he believes Hindley signed off on the grant.

The Home Office said last night: “We are aware of the ­allegations and the Permanent Secretary has ­commissioned an ­independent investigation.” But a Freedom of Information request shows all Home Office files about PIE since 1979 have been destroyed – quite legally. Hindley left the Home Office in 1983 and wrote academic ­articles on gay relationships in Benjamin Britten’s operas. City University music lecturer Ian Pace told Exaro investigative website: “Some of Hindley’s writings certainly show a strong interest in pederastic elements.” PIE’s membership ranged from the jobless to diplomats. In 1978, a police raid on a flat found 45 diaries filled with ­depraved fantasies. The flat was registered to a Mr Henderson – an alias of former High Commissioner to Canada and deputy head of MI6 Sir Peter Hayman. After being cautioned by ­police Hayman told them: “If this comes out I shall either shoot myself or go to Brazil.” Five PIE members were prosecuted in 1981 for conspiracy to corrupt public morals. But Hayman’s identity was not revealed in court. He was later exposed by MP Geoffrey Dickens, who used Parliamentary privilege to name him in the Commons. Mr Dickens later claimed he was subjected to terrifying threats after naming Hayman. He said: “The noose around my neck grew tighter.

Anger: Tom Watson MP

“Where big money is involved and as important names came into my possession, so the threats began. First, I received threatening calls followed by two burglaries at my home. “Then my name appeared on a killer’s hit-list.” No evidence to support Mr Dickens’s claims ever came to light but friends say he took the threats seriously. Hayman was finally jailed in 1984 for having child porn. He died in 1992. Another PIE member was Soviet spy Geoffrey Prime. But even after he was jailed in 1982 for sex attacks on three young girls, Margaret Thatcher stood up in the Commons and denied he had any link to PIE. PIE members continued to build their underground network despite police probes. Many became powerful in social work, teaching and even the criminal justice system – and thousands of vulnerable kids were traumatised as a result. More than a million people signed a petition demanding PIE’s child-sex campaign be banned – but it never was.

In 1984, two former executive committee members of PIE were convicted of child-porn ­offences but acquitted of incitement to commit ­unlawful sexual acts with children. And the group’s leader fled the UK while on bail. PIE finally called it a day later that year. Meanwhile, as the ­furore over the NCCL’s involvement with PIE continues to reverberate this week, only Patricia Hewitt has so far said sorry for her role. The former MP, who was the council’s general secretary when PIE was affiliated, said: “I take responsibility for the ­mistakes we made. I got it wrong on PIE and I apologise for ­having done so.” Shadow policing minister Jack Dromey insisted he was a “resolute opponent” of PIE when he became NCCL chairman in 1976. He said: “I made it clear my first priority would be to take on the child-sex ­abusers of PIE and defeated them by a ­massive majority at our conference.” [Where’s the proof?] A spokeswoman for Harriet Harman said the Labour deputy leader never had anything to do with PIE in her role as a junior legal officer at the NCCL from 1978 to 1982 . She added: “Harriet Harman regrets the existence of PIE and she regrets they had any involvement at all with NCCL. “PIE were a vile organisation and she never did anything to promote their terrible cause.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/paedophile-information-exchange-taxpayers-cash-3197625#ixzz2uklFkGoZ

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by Guest on 01.03.14 23:06

Tom Watson MP.........."I wouldn't have touched them with a bargepole"
Duration: 03:54

Shaun Ley interviews Labour MP Tom Watson about the Paedophile Information Exchange and allegations of child abuse

Video of him talking to Shaun Ley....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01sycvs

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by tasprin on 01.03.14 23:19

Dee Coy wrote:It's foul and rife. But not unique to any  particular political party - in fact it's necessary to its very existence that their deviant perpetrators infiltrate all establishment organizations. Their foul practices would have been whistle-blown and exposed decades ago by the gleeful opposition if they restricted themselves to just one political persuasion. We are seeing an example of this now, in that the right wing Mail have seen fit to point the finger at NCCL and PIE. The silence and in fact tentative support Harman and co. have received from their political foes as well as their allies tells us all. Paedophilia is organised and every political base covered so it cannot be quashed.

Leaving aside the question of paedophilia, anyone think Patricia (Oppenheimer) Hodge truly holds left-wing values? Really? She's made politics a career within the Labour party for a reason. Has Harman got the interests of the working man at heart? Did Blair? Brown? They're all there for their own advancement and rise to power. Some have other, additional and fouler objectives. What is certain is that they are as far apart in their values from Keir Hardie as it is possible to be. They've all become conservatives in that their prerogative is the conservation of themselves, their power, and the freedom to practice just what the hell they like, which the power gives them.

They have become mirror images of their enemies, the Tories, who, of course, have been up to their er, necks in this all along. Let's not forget this. The Tory Monday Club, anyone?

https://www.scriptonitedaily.com/2013/12/18/uk-establishment-closes-ranks-as-organised-paedophile-network-leads-back-to-no-10/

Please, all those who are rubbing their hands at this marvellous exposure as a victory against the corrupt 'left' just stop it. It is a victory against paedophilia and corruption. A very tiny and ultimately meaningless one. Because this sickness is everywhere, in all echelons of power. It has to be, to continue existing.

All my - cynical - opinion.

I agree on both points, Decoy.
1) This paedophile scandal involves all political parties, not just the left.
2) There is no longer anything to choose between them politically - self interest drives them all - it's basically a case of voting for you think will do the least harm (that's a difficult one).

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Re: Daily Mail - The truth about Labour's apologists for paedophilia:

Post by mouse on 02.03.14 9:48

Dee Koy "Please, all those who are rubbing their hands at this marvellous exposure as a victory against the corrupt 'left' just stop it. It is a victory against paedophilia and corruption. A very tiny and ultimately meaningless one. Because this sickness is everywhere, in all echelons of power. It has to be, to continue existing".

All my - cynical - opinion



I don't think anyone's rubbing their hands on here. This thread's only reported what is out there in the press. We know that all parties have links, but at the moment 'the Left' as you say, are pretty much up to their necks in it on this one. The Labour party are actually being investigated and Pat Hewitt (& her hubbie apparently), Hattie and her old man shouldn't have worked for an organisation that supported PIE and their disgusting campaign to legalise underage sex. Don't know your political stance on this, but I'm sure others on this thread just want all parties, not just political, to start exposing the truth of what is really going on. I agree this isn't a case of your party has more paedos than yours....But we surely have to report the information exposed when it comes to light...

And I for one am glad the DM have flagged this up, but then its not only the DM that has covered this story this week, nor has it been the only one to do so in the past - yet now its actions against Harriet, are being used as an excuse to distract from the bigger story that nobody seems to want to tackle...Shame on them all.

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