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Kate upset with Gerry?

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by Guest on 19.02.14 15:36

Petermac that Is a very likely theory.
And explains a lot.

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by sami on 19.02.14 15:48

What part, if any, did the fear of being charged with child abandonment play from the point of view of the others in the tapas group ?  Is this what led them, initially, to be "helpful" to Kate and Gerry ?.   Whilst their children were not harmed, as in none disappeared, they had left them alone.  Perhaps fear of being charged in a foreign country is what encouraged them to become involved in the initial story.  The "collective mistake" Gerry referred to in his Swedish interview.

Suddenly though the lies snow balled and they found themselves involved in something far more sinister than they originally thought ?  I exclude the Paynes from this though as I believe they were privy to more information than the other two couples.

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kate upset with gerry

Post by travis macbickle on 19.02.14 15:58

@Cristobell wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@Portia wrote:
So: right bed slept in.
Left bed not slept in
Maddies bed not slept in
Bed underneath window in childrens room: slept in (at least rumpled)
Would it be too farfetched to assume the parent who did not sleep in his/her bed disposed of little Maddie before she used and rumpled her bed?
Just a thought
Or here is another one, K comes back, crying at lack of attention, throws herself onto the bed under the window, without switching on the light, and cries herself to sleep. Sleeps badly, thrashing about, tossing and turning.
G comes back after whatever happened with the busty girl, throws himself into bed and goes to sleep, again without turning on lights.
Neither checks the children
Neither notices Madeleine dying of a brain haemorrhage behind the sofa where she fell earlier
Following morning rigor mortis, 'leakage'. and panic sets in.
Place in blue tennis bag on shelf,
take afternoon off tennis with ruptured but self-healing "achilles tendon"  ! ! !
G's afternoon unaccounted for.
Dispose / hide, then replace blue tennis bag, but 'leakage" contaminates shelf
Agree half baked idea, but fail to go into sufficient details - both "Highly intelligent" so not need to spell it all out.
And so on.

Then after the agreed story is blown wide open, start trying to retro-fit, with Last Photo moved from Sunday to Thursday, and so on.
And the rest of the slow motion car crash follows.



Thats probably the most likely scenario I have ever read Petermac, but it opens up the question of why on earth the tapas friends would go along with it.
unless rob and/or mo were involved in that evenings  "sedation watch" and were in some way negligent.dp was on board as he ang gerry had other interests in common!

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by HelenMeg on 19.02.14 16:08

@sami wrote:What part, if any, did the fear of being charged with child abandonment play from the point of view of the others in the tapas group ?  Is this what led them, initially, to be "helpful" to Kate and Gerry ?.   Whilst their children were not harmed, as in none disappeared, they had left them alone.  Perhaps fear of being charged in a foreign country is what encouraged them to become involved in the initial story.  The "collective mistake" Gerry referred to in his Swedish interview.

Suddenly though the lies snow balled and they found themselves involved in something far more sinister than they originally thought ?  I exclude the Paynes from this though as I believe they were privy to more information than the other two couples.
IMO, the neglect only occurred on one night, the night of the staged abduction. The neglect of the children occurred in order to enable the abduction to take place. Even then, they ensure that
sufficient checking took place to protect themselves.

IMO,. the TAPAS 9 rallied around as they were all part of a swinging event held at the OC during that week. It wasn't just the TAPAS friends but also a whole lot of other guests  whose reputations were at stake.

I dont think for one minute that this group of doctors left their children unattended apart from that one night.

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by Guest on 19.02.14 16:33

@travis macbickle wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@Portia wrote:
So: right bed slept in.
Left bed not slept in
Maddies bed not slept in
Bed underneath window in childrens room: slept in (at least rumpled)
Would it be too farfetched to assume the parent who did not sleep in his/her bed disposed of little Maddie before she used and rumpled her bed?
Just a thought
Or here is another one, K comes back, crying at lack of attention, throws herself onto the bed under the window, without switching on the light, and cries herself to sleep. Sleeps badly, thrashing about, tossing and turning.
G comes back after whatever happened with the busty girl, throws himself into bed and goes to sleep, again without turning on lights.
Neither checks the children
Neither notices Madeleine dying of a brain haemorrhage behind the sofa where she fell earlier
Following morning rigor mortis, 'leakage'. and panic sets in.
Place in blue tennis bag on shelf,
take afternoon off tennis with ruptured but self-healing "achilles tendon"  ! ! !
G's afternoon unaccounted for.
Dispose / hide, then replace blue tennis bag, but 'leakage" contaminates shelf
Agree half baked idea, but fail to go into sufficient details - both "Highly intelligent" so not need to spell it all out.
And so on.

Then after the agreed story is blown wide open, start trying to retro-fit, with Last Photo moved from Sunday to Thursday, and so on.
And the rest of the slow motion car crash follows.



Thats probably the most likely scenario I have ever read Petermac, but it opens up the question of why on earth the tapas friends would go along with it.
unless rob and/or mo were involved in that evenings  "sedation watch" and were in some way negligent.dp was on board as he ang gerry had other interests in common!
I cannot understand why they would want to hide Madeleines body if it was just the case of her falling behind the sofa and dying as a result of a head injury. If they were there or not if they were drunk or not. 
Children can get up at night and wander and have accident wherever they are. 
If the parents are asleep it is just a very unfortunate accident. If they were not there or drunk its neglect, no worse than they want us to believe with the abduction fable.

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kate upset with gerry

Post by travis macbickle on 19.02.14 16:45

dantezebu wrote:
@travis macbickle wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@Portia wrote:
So: right bed slept in.
Left bed not slept in
Maddies bed not slept in
Bed underneath window in childrens room: slept in (at least rumpled)
Would it be too farfetched to assume the parent who did not sleep in his/her bed disposed of little Maddie before she used and rumpled her bed?
Just a thought
Or here is another one, K comes back, crying at lack of attention, throws herself onto the bed under the window, without switching on the light, and cries herself to sleep. Sleeps badly, thrashing about, tossing and turning.
G comes back after whatever happened with the busty girl, throws himself into bed and goes to sleep, again without turning on lights.
Neither checks the children
Neither notices Madeleine dying of a brain haemorrhage behind the sofa where she fell earlier
Following morning rigor mortis, 'leakage'. and panic sets in.
Place in blue tennis bag on shelf,
take afternoon off tennis with ruptured but self-healing "achilles tendon"  ! ! !
G's afternoon unaccounted for.
Dispose / hide, then replace blue tennis bag, but 'leakage" contaminates shelf
Agree half baked idea, but fail to go into sufficient details - both "Highly intelligent" so not need to spell it all out.
And so on.

Then after the agreed story is blown wide open, start trying to retro-fit, with Last Photo moved from Sunday to Thursday, and so on.
And the rest of the slow motion car crash follows.



Thats probably the most likely scenario I have ever read Petermac, but it opens up the question of why on earth the tapas friends would go along with it.
unless rob and/or mo were involved in that evenings  "sedation watch" and were in some way negligent.dp was on board as he ang gerry had other interests in common!
I cannot understand why they would want to hide Madeleines body if it was just the case of her falling behind the sofa and dying as a result of a head injury. If they were there or not if they were drunk or not. 
Children can get up at night and wander and have accident wherever they are. 
If the parents are asleep it is just a very unfortunate accident. If they were not there or drunk its neglect, no worse than they want us to believe with the abduction fable.
what if  all the kids were being sedated on a daily basis and maddie had a reaction or accident whilst sedated.that would explain the need to get rid of the body. as the police may have wanted to test the other kids.it also explains the collective guilt of the group.

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by HelenMeg on 19.02.14 16:53

This is why I believe the theory put forward by Textusa. This was less about hiding a body / death and more about protecting a lot of 'important peoples'' reputations.
If this was a swinging event at OC starting 28th April which had quite an exclusive guest list (we know about certain VIPs who were there and jetted off smartly after M's 'disappearance)
then as soon as M died, the VIP guests would have been insistent on the 'swinging' remaining hidden. This would apply to the OC management / owners / ex pats who may have taken part.
So someone came up with the idea of 'sorting it' so that the swinging was well and truly concealed. This is what binds the TAPAS 9 together. This is what explains the
30 minute DP visit to KM. This is why the children were in creche activities. This is why people who you wouldn't expect to go to PdL in May (or indeed at any time - far too downmarket)
were assembled there on this particular out of season week. This is why the Mc Conn' s received high level support and were able to dispose and conceal body.

Noone realised it would become such a high profile incident. This is the reason why exposing the truth is going to affect a whole lot of 'important people' who asked favours of the establishment. 
IMO, this is the only theory that brings all part of the jigsaw together.

The death was accidental but if it had been declared as accidental then it is likely that DP and KM would have had to admit to swinging and the whole 'event' would have been outed.  We are talking very high profile well connected people whose reputation would have been shattered. The TAPAS friends are not very important at all in the scheme of things, but what they might reveal is explosive and thus they get protection from high up. IMO based on theory of Tex.

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by HelenMeg on 19.02.14 16:58

Just my opinion

It also accounts  for the russian guy who provided IT support for communications of the event, for RM 's involvement, and GM's denial of having known him before.
IMO,  SM and RM were the key organisers of the event as regards IT and social connections / invites.  When you look into this theory in all its depth you will find that everything makes sense.
The high quantities of OC staff for such a low season week - all designed to cater for the children of the danglers. Anyway, its a theory and I believe in it 100% especially as its based on facts

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by Guest on 19.02.14 17:04

HelenMeg wrote:
"The death was accidental but if it had been declared as accidental then it is likely that DP and KM would have had to admit to swinging and the whole 'event' would have been outed.  We are talking very high profile well connected people whose reputation would have been shattered. The TAPAS friends are not very important at all in the scheme of things, but what they might reveal is explosive and thus they get protection from high up. IMO based on theory of Tex."


If the death was accidental why would DP and KM have to admit to swinging HelenMeg?

Even if they were caught in flagrante delicto why would they have to admit to swinging?

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by russiandoll on 19.02.14 17:08

I find it very difficult to imagine Kate getting it on with Payne and would find it more believable if the group were swinging with strangers rather than with each other.

  Had Maddie died while Kate and Gerry had been making love, would that be any more or less scandalous than her death happening while one of her parents was having sex whilst swinging, believing the child was asleep and safe?
 The scenario is the same, 2 consenting adults getting it on while a child came to harm. Swinging or not, the outcome the same.
   It is a lifestyle choice and would not imo be viewed by the UK public with outrage, any more than reading that Kate was dressed up as Catwoman while Gerry was in his Batman kit for a bit of role play.

 What is Textusa's theory again.. that Maddie caught the pair in flagrante, got scared, made a noise and was hit in temper and fell?

 Will re read and come back to discuss, it certainly in interesting but there is no evidence.

 Definitely a lot of staff for this time of year so maybe some kind of event organised.

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by Guest on 19.02.14 17:17

@russiandoll wrote:
I find it very difficult to imagine Kate getting it on with Payne

snipped

that Kate was dressed up as Catwoman while Gerry was in his Batman kit for a bit of role play.

Please, Russiandoll, I am trying to cook... puke

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by tigger on 19.02.14 17:18

dantezebu wrote:HelenMeg wrote:
"The death was accidental but if it had been declared as accidental then it is likely that DP and KM would have had to admit to swinging and the whole 'event' would have been outed.  We are talking very high profile well connected people whose reputation would have been shattered. The TAPAS friends are not very important at all in the scheme of things, but what they might reveal is explosive and thus they get protection from high up. IMO based on theory of Tex."


If the death was accidental why would DP and KM have to admit to swinging HelenMeg?

Even if they were caught in flagrante delicto why would they have to admit to swinging?

Exactly. With all that help at their fingertips and not exactly the most truthful people in the world, they could simply have lied.

We were on the balcony/ putting out rubbish/ asleep in bed/just under the shower/watching football and....
Phone the embassy, body to be transported to UK (I'm sure that could have been arranged) PM in UK arranged with desired outcome, pure accident. Fault of the tiled floors etc.



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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by HelenMeg on 19.02.14 17:29

dantezebu wrote:HelenMeg wrote:
"The death was accidental but if it had been declared as accidental then it is likely that DP and KM would have had to admit to swinging and the whole 'event' would have been outed.  We are talking very high profile well connected people whose reputation would have been shattered. The TAPAS friends are not very important at all in the scheme of things, but what they might reveal is explosive and thus they get protection from high up. IMO based on theory of Tex."


If the death was accidental why would DP and KM have to admit to swinging HelenMeg?

Even if they were caught in flagrante delicto why would they have to admit to swinging?
Hi
I think if death had occurred whilst DP/ KM were together in Apartment, they would have immediately involved Gerry / FP.
As they were part of the 'event' which was ultra exclusive and this was the first time G and K and some of the others had been invited on to the exclusive guest list, it was quickly reported around the event and the OC management. PE arranged to jet off as soon as possible. Someone made the decision to conceal the death. This was probably to prevent an immediate investigation of the death, which was likely caused, it is theorised, by a violent slap (according to the pattern of blood marks). If there had been a thorough investigation of death with M's body showing signs of a violent slap then it is likely the whole swinging event is exposed as the only 2 people responsible for M's death were DP and KM . It was decided, IMO,  to avoid that and say she 'disappeared' which quickly became abduction which quickly became 'neglect' to allow the disappearance.

I am not trying to convince you because if you have not read all the facts behind the theory and how it was concluded then you wont see all the reasons for why it is thought that DP/KM were responsible.
Its all a theory but when you read all the facts behind it is , IMO, plausible, based on facts that are known, and makes absolutely all the awkward bits fall into line.  I wont go on about it anymore
but well worth a read of TExtusa site if you have the time and inclination.  Its in great detail and she is very sure.

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by HelenMeg on 19.02.14 17:36

@tigger wrote:
dantezebu wrote:HelenMeg wrote:
"The death was accidental but if it had been declared as accidental then it is likely that DP and KM would have had to admit to swinging and the whole 'event' would have been outed.  We are talking very high profile well connected people whose reputation would have been shattered. The TAPAS friends are not very important at all in the scheme of things, but what they might reveal is explosive and thus they get protection from high up. IMO based on theory of Tex."


If the death was accidental why would DP and KM have to admit to swinging HelenMeg?

Even if they were caught in flagrante delicto why would they have to admit to swinging?

Exactly. With all that help at their fingertips and not exactly the most truthful people in the world, they could simply have lied.

We were on the balcony/ putting out rubbish/ asleep in bed/just under the shower/watching football and....
Phone the embassy, body to be transported  to UK (I'm sure that could have been arranged)  PM in UK arranged with desired outcome, pure accident. Fault of the tiled floors etc.


Yes but that is the crucial point - why was all that help available? Why why why? 2 docs from Rothley?? The help was only available because of who they were mixing with and why on that fateful out of season at
Ocean Club PdL. If the M c Conns plus doctor friends had been there in July in a small group and Maddie had died accidentally,  they would have been treated as you or I - no help from on high. It owuld have been investigated as such.
Why did they get governmental favours and assistance?  Because the other VIP guests, nephew of MH etc etc were able to call in favours - all in my opinion

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by Guest on 19.02.14 17:43

I am not entirely sure that a mother whos only fault was a fondness for sexual encounters with unlikely men would let her daughters body be disposed of in that way.
I am sure she would have wanted these all powerful people to arrange to have Maddies body flown home for a decent burial and a grave to visit.
And I am sure they would have accomodated this request. No questions then to be asked.

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by nglfi on 19.02.14 18:12

IMO the only reason Maddies body needed to be hidden was because of what it would show, ie evidence of having been drugged or evidence of other abuse. I don't think the swinging played a part in their considerations. Don't forget these are monumentally arrogant people who a) thought it would be easy as pie to dispose of an unwanted body without any complications, and b) could not bear the thought of being wrong about anything.  They devised a little plan at the beginning of the holiday,  in my opinion,  which included administering some medicine to help the children sleep, so they could have their much needed nights out. The biggest tragedy of this event for them, is that something went wrong.  They made a mistake. They would have to admit to that. They are so concerned too with making everyone believe they did nothing wrong by leaving their kids alone, when surely any pr person would have advised them against making the kind of stupid, unendearing comments they've already made about their behaviour. 
As to why the tapas 7 would agree to be in on this, as has been mentioned above, they also left their kids alone. I have other theories about the kind of neglect perpetrated by some people in that group as well but I don't want to make a libellous post!

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by Guest on 19.02.14 18:40

@lj wrote:
@justathought wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote:Not sure if this is OT or not, but an observation comparing 2007 to now is this:

In the early days, discussions on the Mirror forum talked about Gerry being controlling and Kate looking scared and dominated (taking due consideration of the media madness and the situation they were in) and so forth. Now she seems the more dominant of the two, the book shows she has balls of steel etc.

It could be that she was always in possession of balls of steel, and that the early days were out of character
OR
Perhaps there is something which has given her power. Something that has given her the "whip hand".

At any rate, there has been something of an observable change, almost a reversal of roles.
S&M
Maybe she had balls of steel from the start. Some folks grow them when they are looking down a barrel.

In the past I used to describe Kate as a "steel magnolia", but I agree "steel balls" fits her much better.
IIRC we once had a great lady in our midst, rightfully named Steel Magnolia; of Kate Healy I never heard any sobriquet but 'hotlips'

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by kimHager on 19.02.14 19:14

Russiandoll I haven't read textusa's theory I'm going to look for it...
There is so much to think on. OK besides being doctors what links the tapas.. Children. Also there is something else bothering me.. In the book KM seems to have an obsession with pedophiles. it also had me wondering if something sicker was going down that week. I never understood that one moment it's the paedo's that have her but the next moment a comment about getting their tuppance worth comes out and being a mother NEVER would I say that IF my child was abducted. Therefore the only logical. Thing in this whole illogical situation is she is dead. Was swinging going on? I dunno but it wouldn't surprise anyone with everything else in this case being so.. Strange.

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by Guest on 19.02.14 20:21

The tuppenceworth line makes me quite uncomfortable when I see it being used in that context.
I believe when this was said it was a way of saying that Madeleine would be shouting and complaining to her 'abductor'(false I know),I think there are no sexual connotations with this line anyway.

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by kimHager on 19.02.14 20:51

Yeah Bellisa I also didn't think that phrase had any sexual innuendo I guess as a mother I couldn't even fathom why you would say that in almost a joking way like that.. The whole abduction. It Was treated like a joke and it's disgusting especially to parents who do have a missing child.
The other part was wierd especially if you think a pervert has your child you wouldn't be saying things like don't hurt her don't scare her she is a beautiful child..... Obviously she wasn't a great actress.. Can't blame that on the dogs.

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by Hobs on 19.02.14 21:04

Regarding the beds

Why did they place Maddie in the  bed by the door which was pretty much undisturbed making the abduction theory look ridiculous unless the abductor had OCD and made the bed tidily when they could have claimed she was in the bed by the window which, as we saw , had rumpled bedding indicating it had been slept in and was conveniently by the window?

An alleged abduction would have been nore believable is Maddie was in the bed by the window, so, why did they place her in the undisturbed bed?

What would have been found in the bedding on the disturbed bed?

Do we know if the bedding from every aparttment was tested forensically as if they were partaking in adult games, their DNA would reveal it and show who was where and with whom.

How would they explain the DNA of non partners in the same bed?

They had to place Maddie in the unmade bed for a reason, what was it?

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by Guest on 19.02.14 21:43

I'm with PeterMac inasmuch as that they could have found a dead Madeleine only early next morning. Gross neglect. IMO the whole scheme seems to have been avoiding an autopsy. Unfortunately the same would go for a non-accidental death. And there are realms where I sometimes go and don't want to ...

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by ultimaThule on 19.02.14 21:47

Could it be to do with the door and the emphasis on both G&K having found it open wider than they claimed it had been left, Hobs?
 
If the door was half open anyone standing in front of it wouldn't be able to see Madeleine in her bed by the wall, but would be able to see her if she was in the bed under the window.

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by canada12 on 19.02.14 21:57

I wonder if there was some confusion about which bed Madeleine was actually supposed to have been in, that the assorted Tapas members were supposed to have seen her in.

I wonder if, in the original plan, Madeleine was supposed to be in the bed beside the window. Hence, it looks slept in. Hence, the tidy bed may have originally been planned to be empty and not disturbed.

But, like the mixed up jemmied shutters story, perhaps everyone got the story wrong about where Madeleine was supposed to be sleeping, and by the time they realized they'd got it wrong, it was too late to correct the details?

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Re: Kate upset with Gerry?

Post by Cristobell on 19.02.14 22:12

Châtelaine wrote:I'm with PeterMac inasmuch as that they could have found a dead Madeleine only early next morning. Gross neglect. IMO the whole scheme seems to have been avoiding an autopsy. Unfortunately the same would go for a non-accidental death. And there are realms where I sometimes go and don't want to ...




I know what you mean.

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