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MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by ultimaThule on 18.02.14 13:24

@jeanmonroe wrote:Would everyone agree that DCI Redwood, his entire team and the Met/SY would have scrutinised, proof read and dotted every i and crossed every t before allowing BBC CW to be broadcast last October (2013)?

With DCI Andrew Redwood appearing, in person, on the CW programme.

The most 'accurate' dipiction of events, as confirmed by the entire, 38 strong, Met Operation Grange team, after 2years 5 months 'investigation', about what they think supposedly 'happened' in PDL, 3rd May 2007.?
I agree with your first question.

However, with regard to your second question AR went to some length to state that what was shown on Crimewatch of the group's movements on the night in question was the 'most accurate account to date' which, for me, carried a clear implication that he and his team have reason to believe there may be other, more accurate, accounts which may explain how/why Madeleine McCann came to disappear.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by Tangled Web on 18.02.14 13:38

These 'stories' really aren't worth the paper they're written on. The media are getting increasingly frustrated that they don't have a clue what's going on.

Until I hear 'officially' from PJ/SY, I'm refusing to get wound up. OK, I'll be honest, I'm about 60% wound up  angry2 

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by Tony Bennett on 18.02.14 14:09

@Cristobell wrote:
I am surprised you believe the burglar stories etc, Tony.  Scotland Yard made it quite clear on Crimewatch, Smithman was their prime suspect, there was no mention of burglars or tractormen.
That is a matter of opinion.

Redwood made a big song and dance about the 'Smith sighting' - 'Irish family' etc. etc.

But if you examine his actual words closely, when he showed us his two different e-fits (clearly produced on two different computer programs), he definitely did not say these were produced by the Smiths, but by (quote) 'witnesses'. I would argue that this was a deliberate deception on his part. He tried to give us the impression that they had been drawn up by the Smiths.

And we also know that the e-fits could not have been drawn up by the Smiths, for these and other reasons:

* only saw him for a second or two
* he 'turned away'
* the child was hiding his face
* couldn't see his face properly
* it was dark
* the street lighting was 'poor'

...these all being statements made by the Smiths themselves.

PLUS the fact that the efits looked like two wholly different people - and PLUS the fact that Henri Exton of Oakley International said he drew them up five years ago, whereas Redwood tried to hoodwink us into thinking that they were produced by the Smiths in the past two years.  

(And that's quite apart from a number of separate indications that the 'Smith sighting' could have been fabricated).

Redwood also showed us four or five heads which he said were of blond or 'blondish' men.

Furthermore, the stated rationale for the whole programme (McCann CrimeWatch Show) was to seek the help of the 6.7 million viewing British public to see if they could recognise one of the persons represented by these e-fits. 

That seems a barely credible rationale for a programme which seemed much more to be about public perception

____________________

                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by marconi on 18.02.14 14:20

Mr. Bennett, it does not have to be the Smiths but someone of the Tapas who told the Yard that Gerry took the body down the streets.  And the Yard made his e-fit.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by haroldd2 on 18.02.14 14:25

@nglfi wrote:If, as Petermac described above,  a letter rogatory can be used to request that evidence is obtained from a witness,  might not this simply be SY following up the leads they claim to have regarding 'persons of interest', which may or may not be burglars/former employees etc? Does it necessarily mean their requests are related to a pending court case in the UK?
English courts can only issue letters rogatory in connection with matters which fall under the jurisdiction of the English courts. See my post above for a consideration of some of the issues.

Any other reason for use (such as PR) is an abuse of process.

Child abduction in Portugal doesn't fall under the English jurisdiction - except if sexual abuse was involved, in which case it does, technically, but one would expect the Portuguese judiciary to handle the case themselves rather than hand it over to an English court claiming universal jurisdiction.

Murder by a non-British person in Portugal doesn't fall under the English jurisdiction either. Murder by a British person in Portugal does, technically, but see above. That a murder victim in Portugal is British is totally irrelevant to any jurisdictional issue.

What on earth are the Brits up to?

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by Tony Bennett on 18.02.14 14:27

@marconi wrote:Mr. Bennett, it does not have to be the Smiths but someone of the Tapas who told the Yard that Gerry took the body down the streets.  And the Yard made his e-fit.
Utter balderdash.

If you were right, the McCanns would have been arrested, charged and remanded in custody by now.

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                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by Guest on 18.02.14 14:30

@aquila wrote:What puzzles me from the erudite people on this forum is the need to say Portugal and Britain are oldest allies as if it makes any significant difference to solving this case.

Had Madeleine disappeared in Germany would that make a difference to solving the case?
Of course

Then, the case would have been solved on May 3rd 2007 at 2300 hrs or before :)

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by Cristobell on 18.02.14 14:31

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
I am surprised you believe the burglar stories etc, Tony.  Scotland Yard made it quite clear on Crimewatch, Smithman was their prime suspect, there was no mention of burglars or tractormen.
That is a matter of opinion.

Redwood made a big song and dance about the 'Smith sighting' - 'Irish family' etc. etc.

But if you examine his actual words closely, when he showed us his two different e-fits (clearly produced on two different computer programs), he definitely did not say these were produced by the Smiths, but by (quote) 'witnesses'. I would argue that this was a deliberate deception on his part. He tried to give us the impression that they had been drawn up by the Smiths.

And we also know that the e-fits could not have been drawn up by the Smiths, for these and other reasons:

* only saw him for a second or two
* he 'turned away'
* the child was hiding his face
* couldn't see his face properly
* it was dark
* the street lighting was 'poor'

...these all being statements made by the Smiths themselves.

PLUS the fact that the efits looked like two wholly different people - and PLUS the fact that Henri Exton of Oakley International said he drew them up five years ago, whereas Redwood tried to hoodwink us into thinking that they were produced by the Smiths in the past two years.  

(And that's quite apart from a number of separate indications that the 'Smith sighting' could have been fabricated).

Redwood also showed us four or five heads which he said were of blond or 'blondish' men.

Furthermore, the stated rationale for the whole programme (McCann CrimeWatch Show) was to seek the help of the 6.7 million viewing British public to see if they could recognise one of the persons represented by these e-fits. 

That seems a barely credible rationale for a programme which seemed much more to be about public perception



Tony I have read your theories as to why we should not believe the Smith family, but I'm afraid I do not agree. I find it fanciful to think a family of 9 would invent a story to protect a casual acquaintance on the Algarve.

My overall impression from Crimewatch, was that SY had reached the stage the PJ did in May 2008 shortly before the case was shelved. Crimewatch focused on the reconstruction and Smithman. They also dismissed the sighting of Jane Tanner (something the PJ did immediately) and presented the Efits as a dramatic new revelation. Whether they were new or not is moot, they replaced the 7 year old Tanner sighting, the flagship of the McCanns abduction story.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by marconi on 18.02.14 14:38

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@marconi wrote:Mr. Bennett, it does not have to be the Smiths but someone of the Tapas who told the Yard that Gerry took the body down the streets.  And the Yard made his e-fit.
Utter balderdash.

If you were right, the McCanns would have been arrested, charged and remanded in custody by now.

Mr. Bennett, I think that the police need to identify Tapas 10, the person who helped hiding the body. That person might be the key to the disappearance and I believe it is.
In such  a case, a statement of a witness could not be enough because the rest of  Tapas  7 could deny it and the McCanns too.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by HelenMeg on 18.02.14 14:38

Yes, I think progress i being made. Look at how this latest fanciful headline in the Star is diving and conquering just as it was intended to do.
It can only mean good things are going on behind the scenes. We should be happy to see headlines like that.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by haroldd2 on 18.02.14 14:39

@ultimaThule wrote:

The inference which can be drawn from the 3 meetings senior officers of the CPS held with their Portuguese counterparts in Lisbon is  that if it is found that British nationals are complicit in the heinous crime which was committed against a 3 year old British child in Portugal, they will be prosecuted in the criminal courts of England/Wales.
In this case, the only crimes committed in Portugal that an English court could try are a) murder, b) manslaughter, and c) child sexual abuse: the first two under the Offences against the Person Act 1861; the third, under universal jurisdiction.

Hiding a body wouldn't count. Nor would a massive obstruction of justice.

But why should the British taxpayer pay for the trial of British nationals alleged to have committed one or more of those crimes in Portugal? And why should the Portuguese judiciary help?

Who do the British nationals think they are? And why should SY and an English judge help them?

They should be tried in Portugal, and the British police should try to help to bring that about.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by jeanmonroe on 18.02.14 14:39

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/16560090-madeleine-mccann-evidence-points-right-at-parents

Where is this missing child? Something tells me that both of her parents know.

The search for Madeleine McCann continues as officials with SY vent frustration against Portuguese police -- but do they really have a valid reason to be frustrated?

The latest media reports share that UK investigators are accusing the officials in Portugal of "bungling" the case, but what do you call purposely ignoring damning evidence against Kate and Gerry McCann?

UK police believe that officials in Portugal are "chasing down the wrong leads," but what about their own so called detective work? What kind of detective work involves ignoring blatant evidence against parents while pursuing phantom kidnappers and human trafficking theories that never add up?

The facts are simple: Cadaver dogs hit on the scent of human death in the McCann's rental apartment and the DNA taken from that apartment was an extremely close match. The parents' stories have never added up, and neither of them have willingly answered numerous questions pertaining to Maddie's case.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a duck. Unfortunately, investigators with SY seem to believe that Kate and Gerry McCann are a couple of swans.
==========================================

Love the reference, the McCanns being 'compared' to 'Swans'

"we always talk of a swan - apparently calm and serene, on the surface, but paddling like crazy just beneath the surface."

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by melisande on 18.02.14 14:40

I don't know why there are 14 pages dissecting a Daily Star front page forever rehashed story.  You have to ask yourself these questions? 

Why is no other paper or media outlet publicising this story?

What is holding up the libel trial?

Why are the 'exclusives' always at the beginning of the week instead of the weekends as they used to be? 

And most important of all..... why was David Payne omitted from the Crimewatch reconstruction?


Forget about all the pr rubbish, we all knew this would happen around the libel trial.  This is deflection, pure and simple.  The amount of it and quality of it tells me they are worried and so they should be imo.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by Loving Mom on 18.02.14 14:44

Cristobell wrote:
Tony, do you honestly believe the PJ and SY are going to reach different conclusions?
We haven't established yet that they are actively working together and co-operating on anything.

I think DCI Redwood arriving with a box file of documents establishes something Tony.


 agree 

IMO, Redwood was looking extremely confidant and happy to be photographed when visiting Portugal because he wanted to send a BIG message to the world and more important to the soon to be named suspects. The main message clearly being sent was SY and PJ are both working very hard separately, as well as together, and be happy if you want justice for Madeleine but very afraid if you are guilty... .

 shark 

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by Newintown on 18.02.14 14:46

@marconi wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@marconi wrote:Mr. Bennett, it does not have to be the Smiths but someone of the Tapas who told the Yard that Gerry took the body down the streets.  And the Yard made his e-fit.
Utter balderdash.

If you were right, the McCanns would have been arrested, charged and remanded in custody by now.

Mr. Bennett, I think that the police need to identify Tapas 10, the person who helped hiding the body. That person might be the key to the disappearance and I believe it is.
In such  a case, a statement of a witness could not be enough because the rest of  Tapas  7 could deny it and the McCanns too.

Could there also be the possibility that another witness or witnesses have come forward who saw a child being carried through the streets of PDL around the same time of the Smiths' sighting and have done the e-fits for the PJ/SY but their identity/identities have been withheld.  Perhaps they asked not to be identified because of press intrusion and AR was asking on CW for anyone else to come forward who could also back up the sighting(s).

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"Never trust an eyewitness whose memory gets better over time"


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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by lj on 18.02.14 14:53

@jozi wrote:
@Bishop Brennan wrote:
@ultimaThule wrote:
I recall reading on this forum that, such is her colossal vanity, Kate claimed there'd be rioting in the streets of Britain if she was arrested in Portugal, but it seems to me to be far more likely there'll be riots if Grange proves to be no more than one of the most expensive whitewashes in criminal history.

Given the general apathy of the public, I doubt there would more than a concentrated flurry of outraged online posting in the event of a whitewash.  The evidence so far suggests that neither will happen, rather that the case will just fade away with a bland official SY summary along the lines of: "The evidence points to an abduction by person or persons in the area at the time. There are strong suspicions about Tractorman / Gypsies / Burglars, however, there is insufficient evidence to prosecute anyone of anything."  

Basically something that counter-balances the original PJ summary and lets the McCanns sail away forever into the sunset - keeping the fund alive to support a never-ending 'search', and popping up in the papers from time to time to boost their profile.  All UK political reputations kept intact. Case Closed.  

I sincerely hope I am wrong, but evidence to the contrary is hard to find.

I agree, its the never ending story,with so much to give and so much more money to make !!!

I believe that, if ever the McCanns would be found culpable of anything in this case (which I think is never gonna happen), there will years of "kate's friend speaks out", "Gerry already as a youngster rücksichtslos", "he twins almost 13, where are they now?" etc etc.

____________________
"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?"  Gerry

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by marconi on 18.02.14 15:02

@Newintown wrote:
@marconi wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@marconi wrote:Mr. Bennett, it does not have to be the Smiths but someone of the Tapas who told the Yard that Gerry took the body down the streets.  And the Yard made his e-fit.
Utter balderdash.

If you were right, the McCanns would have been arrested, charged and remanded in custody by now.

Mr. Bennett, I think that the police need to identify Tapas 10, the person who helped hiding the body. That person might be the key to the disappearance and I believe it is.
In such  a case, a statement of a witness could not be enough because the rest of  Tapas  7 could deny it and the McCanns too.

Could there also be the possibility that another witness or witnesses have come forward who saw a child being carried through the streets of PDL around the same time of the Smiths' sighting and have done the e-fits for the PJ/SY but their identity/identities have been withheld.  Perhaps they asked not to be identified because of press intrusion and AR was asking on CW for anyone else to come forward who could also back up the sighting(s).

I thought of this possibility too.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by Monty Heck on 18.02.14 15:05

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/365974/Portuguese-police-are-bungling-the-hunt-for-Madeleine-McCann-say-Brit-detectives

Portuguese police are bungling the hunt for Madeleine McCann, say Brit detectives

FRUSTRATED British police fear Portuguese officers are chasing the wrong lead in the hunt for Madeleine McCann.

By Jerry Lawton/Published 18th February 2014

Snipped.....

Though each force claims to have unearthed new leads, their inquiries are heading in different directions.
A source close to the UK inquiry said: “If we don’t form a joint investigation task force, any advantages in terms of pooling resources and information may be lost.
“We can’t have an ‘us against them’ scenario developing. This is not a game. A little girl’s life may be at stake.’’
Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe has called on the UK and Portuguese governments to form a joint international task force to conduct a single united inquiry.
He said the UK and Portuguese probes were “two separate inquiries with a different focus”.
And he added: “It’s important that we work together on what is clearly a common problem.’’
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Among the dross spewed out by the media there can often be a grain of truth.  If what Jerry Lawton attributes to Bernard Hogan Howe above is correct, then unless BHH is lying, this serves to clarify the position of the two investigative forces and must end speculation that they are working in co-operation.  The current schizpophrenia within the MSM is tending to support that this is indeed "two separate inquiries with a different focus" - SY's 3 burglars v PJ 's tractorman. 

As for SY's recent and frequent reprted visits to Faro, is there evidence that they met with PJ counterparts?  The most recently photographed visit showed SY officers entering a building on a Faro street, but which building?  There was no official signage visible around the doorway they entered.  They apparently have had (again if true) 6 officers working from Faro for a considerable time - could these officers have been visited rather than an assumed official meeting with PJ counterparts?  Indeed, if each force were pursuing such disparate theories, what need would there be for regular face to face meetings?

Whether, once the as currently advertised lines of enquiry have been exhausted, the two forces will then have or be able to concede that each is getting nowhere alone is very much moot and at the moment seems, depressingly, rather a long way off.




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Re: MADDIE COPS AT WAR Daily Star 18/2/2014

Post by Monty Heck on 18.02.14 15:16

"Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe has called on the UK and Portuguese governments to form a joint international task force to conduct a single united inquiry."

Above quote perhaps also worthy of some note.  BHH suggests that there will not be possible for the two forces to work together meaningfully on a single enquiry unless overseen by a joint international task force.  Interesting scenario: further political interference and headed by.....Britain, or Portugal?  Not to mention continuing and increasing costs for both jurisdictions. 

So no sign of any clever end game with arrests at dawn any time soon, if this is in any way accurate. 

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by Newintown on 18.02.14 15:26

@Monty Heck wrote:"Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe has called on the UK and Portuguese governments to form a joint international task force to conduct a single united inquiry."

Above quote perhaps also worthy of some note.  BHH suggests that there will not be possible for the two forces to work together meaningfully on a single enquiry unless overseen by a joint international task force.  Interesting scenario: further political interference and headed by.....Britain, or Portugal?  Not to mention continuing and increasing costs for both jurisdictions. 

So no sign of any clever end game with arrests at dawn any time soon, if this is in any way accurate. 

But do we know if BHH actually said those words or did Jerry Lawton make it up to sell more newspapers.

Everything that has been printed in the newspapers over the past months seems to be spin (look over there, not over here) to detract from what is actually going on.

Can we believe anything printed that has Jerry Lawton's name attached to it.  Where did the stories originate from - Jerry Lawton's new best friend - Pinkie perhaps?

____________________
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"Never trust an eyewitness whose memory gets better over time"


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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by Woofer on 18.02.14 15:31

@ Monty Heck - "As for SY's recent and frequent reprted visits to Faro, is there evidence that they met with PJ counterparts?  The most recently photographed visit showed SY officers entering a building on a Faro street, but which building?  There was no official signage visible around the doorway they entered. "

It was confirmed on here some weeks ago by Clay that the building they entered was the PJ Building - we found it on google maps.

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by Woofer on 18.02.14 15:36

@Newintown wrote:
@Monty Heck wrote:"Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe has called on the UK and Portuguese governments to form a joint international task force to conduct a single united inquiry."

Above quote perhaps also worthy of some note.  BHH suggests that there will not be possible for the two forces to work together meaningfully on a single enquiry unless overseen by a joint international task force.  Interesting scenario: further political interference and headed by.....Britain, or Portugal?  Not to mention continuing and increasing costs for both jurisdictions. 

So no sign of any clever end game with arrests at dawn any time soon, if this is in any way accurate. 

But do we know if BHH actually said those words or did Jerry Lawton make it up to sell more newspapers.

Everything that has been printed in the newspapers over the past months seems to be spin (look over there, not over here) to decract from what is actually going on.

Can we believe anything printed that has Jerry Lawton's name attached to it.  Where did the stories originate from - Jerry Lawton's new best friend - Pinkie perhaps?

I agree - Jerry Lawton has spun BHH`s words.  Of course BHH has asked for a joint united enquiry - any head of police would.  But Jerry Lawton has spun it to make out the two police forces are squabbling and BHH has told them off.  Its easy to do.   Yes, and I agree about who Jerry Lawton`s new best friend may be !

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by gbwales on 18.02.14 15:36

Bernard Hogan-Howe *did* say those words.

He said them in November 2013...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25124643

____________________
"You can't stop the signal, Mal. Everything goes somewhere and I go everywhere."

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by gbwales on 18.02.14 15:39

@Woofer wrote:Jerry Lawton has spun it to make out the two police forces are squabbling and BHH has told them off.  Its easy to do.   Yes, and I agree about who Jerry Lawton`s new best friend may be !

Exactly.

____________________
"You can't stop the signal, Mal. Everything goes somewhere and I go everywhere."

Mr Universe to Malcolm Reynolds, "Serenity" (2005)

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Re: MADDIE: COPS AT WAR - Daily Star 18/2/14

Post by Cristobell on 18.02.14 15:41

@Monty Heck wrote:
@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/365974/Portuguese-police-are-bungling-the-hunt-for-Madeleine-McCann-say-Brit-detectives

Portuguese police are bungling the hunt for Madeleine McCann, say Brit detectives

FRUSTRATED British police fear Portuguese officers are chasing the wrong lead in the hunt for Madeleine McCann.

By Jerry Lawton/Published 18th February 2014

Snipped.....

Though each force claims to have unearthed new leads, their inquiries are heading in different directions.
A source close to the UK inquiry said: “If we don’t form a joint investigation task force, any advantages in terms of pooling resources and information may be lost.
“We can’t have an ‘us against them’ scenario developing. This is not a game. A little girl’s life may be at stake.’’
Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe has called on the UK and Portuguese governments to form a joint international task force to conduct a single united inquiry.
He said the UK and Portuguese probes were “two separate inquiries with a different focus”.
And he added: “It’s important that we work together on what is clearly a common problem.’’
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Among the dross spewed out by the media there can often be a grain of truth.  If what Jerry Law attributes to Bernard Hogan Howe above is correct, then unless BHH is lying, this serves to clarify the position of the two investigative forces and must end speculation that they are working in co-operation.  The current schizpophrenia within the MSM is tending to support that this is indeed "two separate inquiries with a different focus" - SY's 3 burglars v PJ 's tractorman. 

The idea that Scotland Yard are investigating burglars (having discarded the recent efits and Smithman) and the PJ are investigating tractorman, is absurd. The McCanns have PR in Portugal as well as the UK, and these two fantastic stories fit their agenda and MO.


As for SY's recent and frequent reprted visits to Faro, is there evidence that they met with PJ counterparts?  The most recently photographed visit showed SY officers entering a building on a Faro street, but which building?  There was no official signage visible around the doorway they entered.  They apparently have had (again if true) 6 officers working from Faro for a considerable time - could these officers have been visited rather than an assumed official meeting with PJ counterparts?  Indeed, if each force were pursuing such disparate theories, what need would there be for regular face to face meetings?

How can Scotland Yard carry out an investigation in Portugal without the co-operation of the local police? Apart from the language barrier, they would undoubtedly face hostility from people who believe they are being made scapegoats for a wealthy British couple. They may as well put a sign up in PDL saying 'your police are shite, we know its one of you'. It would be a pointless exercise, as would DCI Redwood hand delivering boxfiles of documents to them. This British exercise could be carried out far more simply in the UK, simply by popping into the office next door, though of course that would not provide a photo opportunity.


Whether, once the as currently advertised lines of enquiry have been exhausted, the two forces will then have or be able to concede that each is getting nowhere alone is very much moot and at the moment seems, depressingly, rather a long way off.

Its strange how we see things differently Monty, rather than depressing, I think the outlook is good. Even if SY want to drag this on for decades, the PJ don't. When the parents and their friends refused to cooperate and the investigation reached stalemate, they shelved it. They are not interested in playing games. The case stayed shelved for more than 3 years, and they would not have re-opened it, if there was not a conclusion in sight.



Cristobell

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