The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Hi,

A very warm welcome to The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ forum.

Please log in, or register to view all the forums, then settle in and start chatting with us!

Enjoy your day,

Jill Havern
Forum owner

Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Page 15 of 18 Previous  1 ... 9 ... 14, 15, 16, 17, 18  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by marconi on Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:21 pm

Mr. Bennett, you have a University grade in Law, `you used to be a lawyer, you must have seen how much people lie, including the police. Can't you see that it could not be possible that the second letter still didn't arrive in Portimão, that the police are not searching for any burglar and that the Met police are being serious in their investigation?
I see this as a trap, for some purpose.

marconi

Posts : 1082
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2013-05-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by aiyoyo on Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:34 pm

@PeterMac wrote:Have I understood this ?
There are Three letters of request (Rogatories)
Nos 1 and 3 have been received, but not No 2.
Possibly not even No 3.

But in that time there have been more than 20 visits by SY to the PJ in Faro, only one of which, the penultimate one, was given any publicity.
There has also been a visit by the CPS to their Portuguese counterparts, at the highest possible level, not given much publicity, but reported on.

This not about 3 burglars / cleaners / gypsies / dead black men / dead paedos / dead tractormen / Smithmen / Tannermen / Beckham-women / dingos / or any of Mitchell's and the McCanns' other ludicrous stories
It is well beyond that.

The story so far is: 3 ILOR have been sent.  
1st one definitely  received (apparently), but no one knows what action (if any) was taken.
The 2nd one is still in transit, and hasn't got to PJ in Faro from Portimao.  
Probably it got lost in transit but no Lost and Found Report has been filed to start search process yet.
The 3rd one is going round the conveyor belt waiting to be collected.

Meanwhile the baddies have been forewarned well in advance by the Press, but the Police don't seem to be in any hurry.

It seems Mr Pinky, the storyteller has lost the plot altogether.  
Maybe his brain is addled from starvation because the dinghy carrying his emergency ration is stuck somewhere or still in transit.

aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 318
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by marconi on Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:43 pm

@Watching wrote:
@marconi wrote:

Your command of the English language intrigues me, so varied from post to post.
Watching, you are not the first person who comments the command of my English language.
I think that sometimes I write better than other times. It is possible, I can not Judge it myself. Perhaps it has to do with prepositions which I find difficult to use. Anyway, thanks for the compliment because it could mean that I am improving.

marconi

Posts : 1082
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2013-05-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by PeterMac on Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:50 pm

@aiyoyo wrote:
It seems Mr Pinky, the storyteller has lost the plot altogether.  
Maybe his brain is addled from starvation because the dinghy carrying his emergency ration is stuck somewhere or still in transit.

Or perhaps the recent floods have flushed out the sewer he normally uses for inspiration.

____________________


PeterMac
Researcher

Posts : 10170
Reputation : 143
Join date : 2010-12-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by jeanmonroe on Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:05 pm

@Woofer wrote:Yes, we may get to see detailed reports of the Portuguese investigation eventually, but IIRC, Scotland Yard made it clear that the results of their investigation would not be made public.

SY are hardly likely to release a report of a possible cover-up are they?

But the Portuguese well might!

After all, they have the 'minutes' from 20 'visits' by the Met, to hand.

Can Andy remember EVERYTHING he and his officers have 'discussed' with his Portuguese counterparts?

jeanmonroe

Posts : 5133
Reputation : 886
Join date : 2013-02-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by Tony Bennett on Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:13 pm

@marconi wrote:Mr. Bennett, you have a University grade in Law,

Actually, not exact;y, I have two University degrees, neither of them in Law, though my passing the Solicitors' 'Common Professional Examination' in 1993 counted as the equivant of a Law degree   

you used to be a lawyer, you must have seen how much people lie, including the police.

Actually, no, generally the police tell the truth. It is just unfortunate that in the last 3 to 4 decades, dishonesty and corruption in the Briitsh police has grown significantly. We all know some of the examples 

Can't you see that it could not be possible that the second letter still didn't arrive in Portimão, that the police are not searching for any burglar

Goodness, FOUR separate 'negatives' in that short phrases, it's a bit difficult to disentangle

and that the Met police are being serious in their investigation? I see this as a trap, for some purpose.

Are you seriously suggesting that the £1-million-plus and 6 months'-plus preparation that the BBC Crimewatch McCann Show, watched by 6.7 million viewers, and the active participation of DCI Redwood in that programme, is all part of an elaborate trap to 'catch' someone?

(irony alert) I am sure that Redwood meant every word he said, that he really really was sincere in looking for a bloke with two wholly different-looking e-fits, and 4 (or was it 5) blond or blondish men (in case anyone might have spotted them nearly seven years ago), and that the whole CrimeWatch McCann show was a wholly sincere attempt to trace, identify, arrest, charge and convict the person or persons responsible for the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. I dismiss totally any claim that this was just to influence public perceptiom and pursue a wholly different agenda   



____________________

                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


Tony Bennett
Researcher/Moderator

Posts : 13970
Reputation : 2144
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 69
Location : Harlow, Essex

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by Woofer on Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:19 pm

If SY have visited the PJ so many times recently, why didn`t they hand deliver the ILORs ?

Woofer

Posts : 3390
Reputation : 12
Join date : 2012-02-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by Tony Bennett on Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:48 pm

@Woofer wrote:If SY have visited the PJ so many times recently, why didn't they hand deliver the ILORs ?
I think they have to go from government to government, don't they? - not police force to police force.

Maybe our government is to blame?

Maybe they had the wrong address for the Portuguese government?

Alternatively someone in the Portuguese government put the letter in the shredder by mistake?

____________________

                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


Tony Bennett
Researcher/Moderator

Posts : 13970
Reputation : 2144
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 69
Location : Harlow, Essex

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by russiandoll on Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:58 pm

As far as I am aware a rogatory letter is sent from one court to another, so to the top of the judicial system it would appear. Will check this for accuracy.

____________________



             The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate,
contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy


russiandoll

Posts : 3942
Reputation : 7
Join date : 2011-09-11

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by Tony Bennett on Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:15 pm

@russiandoll wrote:As far as I am aware a rogatory letter is sent from one court to another, so to the top of the judicial system it would appear. Will check this for accuracy.
May be it goes like this:

Senior investigator in England wants a suspect to be interviewed in Portugal.

So:

Letter Redwood to Bernard Hogan-Howe

Then:

Letter Bernard Hogan-Howe to Minister for Justice

Then

Letter Minister for Justice to Home Secretary

Then

Letter Home Secretary to Foreign Secretary

Then

Foreign Secretary gets approval from Prime Minister

Then

British Foreign Secretary writes to Portugese Foreign Secretary  

Then

Portuguese Foreign Secretary writes to Attorney-General

Then

Attorney-General writes to Minsterio Publico

Then

Minsterio Publico writes to Head of PJ

Then

Head of PJ contacts whoever is running the Portugese side of the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance.


Hardly suprising, then, that it may have got 'lost in the post'.

Were any of these letters sent 'Recorded Delivery'?

____________________

                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


Tony Bennett
Researcher/Moderator

Posts : 13970
Reputation : 2144
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 69
Location : Harlow, Essex

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by Cristobell on Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:23 pm

MarcoG wrote:
@AndyB wrote:
@Doug D wrote:AndyB:


 
It is my contention that, maybe, the Met are investigating a suspicion of a crime over which they do have jurisdiction; manslaughter, murder or sexual abuse of a child
On top of those sorts of crimes you've mentioned, wich can be prosecuted basically by any jurisdiction, due to the  universally criminal nature of them, there might be other, related or unrelated crimes found that have happened within Great Britain, I speculate.
 
If SY has taken the investigation back to zero, wherever in time that may be, lots of work might surface.




We know there are murky undertones to this case, not least the McCanns private detectives Metodo 3 interfering in the prosecution of Leonor Cipriano in order to frame Goncalo Amaral. I think there is a lot of work going on behind the scenes, who knows how many crimes have been committed.

Cristobell

Posts : 2436
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2011-10-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by diatribe on Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:24 pm

@plebgate wrote:

Isn't it time that the public were given a general update on how things stand -  after all there is a heck of a lot of taxpayers' money being spent?

The same could have been said of John Major and his cones and lest we forget, Nulabor were the largest individual customer of the advertising industry. I don't agee with many of Peter Hitchen's philosophies on life but he certainly got it right when he stated '' If you gave the gov. a £10 note to buy a loaf of bread, they'd come back a week later with a stale crust.''

diatribe

Posts : 602
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-11-15
Location : London

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:25 pm

I read somewhere the ilor letters are sent by CPS,can anyone verify this?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by aiyoyo on Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:28 pm

@PeterMac wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
It seems Mr Pinky, the storyteller has lost the plot altogether.  
Maybe his brain is addled from starvation because the dinghy carrying his emergency ration is stuck somewhere or still in transit.

Or perhaps the recent floods have flushed out the sewer he normally uses for inspiration.

He knew with 100% certainty this dilly-dallying by Police is not about a live child.
Else he would be complaining against the Police for wasting time pussy footing around the burglars.

aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 318
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by diatribe on Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:35 pm

@Tony Bennett wrote:
Were any of these letters sent 'Recorded Delivery'? wrote:
Or at the very least, the name and address written on the back of the envelope to be returned to sender if undelivered.


diatribe

Posts : 602
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-11-15
Location : London

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by Cristobell on Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:42 pm

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@marconi wrote:Mr. Bennett, you have a University grade in Law,

Actually, not exact;y, I have two University degrees, neither of them in Law, though my passing the Solicitors' 'Common Professional Examination' in 1993 counted as the equivant of a Law degree   

you used to be a lawyer, you must have seen how much people lie, including the police.

Actually, no, generally the police tell the truth. It is just unfortunate that in the last 3 to 4 decades, dishonesty and corruption in the Briitsh police has grown significantly. We all know some of the examples 

Can't you see that it could not be possible that the second letter still didn't arrive in Portimão, that the police are not searching for any burglar

Goodness, FOUR separate 'negatives' in that short phrases, it's a bit difficult to disentangle

and that the Met police are being serious in their investigation? I see this as a trap, for some purpose.

Are you seriously suggesting that the £1-million-plus and 6 months'-plus preparation that the BBC Crimewatch McCann Show, watched by 6.7 million viewers, and the active participation of DCI Redwood in that programme, is all part of an elaborate trap to 'catch' someone?

(irony alert) I am sure that Redwood meant every word he said, that he really really was sincere in looking for a bloke with two wholly different-looking e-fits, and 4 (or was it 5) blond or blondish men (in case anyone might have spotted them nearly seven years ago), and that the whole CrimeWatch McCann show was a wholly sincere attempt to trace, identify, arrest, charge and convict the person or persons responsible for the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. I dismiss totally any claim that this was just to influence public perceptiom and pursue a wholly different agenda   







Having watched a number of 'real crime' dramas on Youtube, I have been amazed at the lengths some detectives will go to in order to get their man/woman.  In some cases undercover police have befriended a suspect over a period of months, and elaborate dramas have been acted out in order to get the evidence required.  It happens, not just on the telly, but in real life.  Criminals are by their very nature deceptive and manipulative, a good cop knows he must play their game in order to trap them.  

I agree they are going to extraordinary lengths, but this is an extraordinary case that goes much further than the disappearance of small child on the night of 7th May 2007.  There will be a number of suspects facing a number of charges, and each individual case must be built to withstand a powerful Defence team.  

Clarence wants us to believe Scotland Yard are pursuing burglars, low lives etc, and that there is a rift between the British and the Portuguese police. That is the McCann agenda.  It looked more to me as if Scotland Yard were delivering documents to their Portuguese counterparts during their recent visit, and everything else is smoke and mirrors.

Cristobell

Posts : 2436
Reputation : 3
Join date : 2011-10-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by aiyoyo on Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:42 pm

@Woofer wrote:If SY have visited the PJ so many times recently, why didn't they hand deliver the ILORs ?


UK side can request what they want in the ILOR but the Portugal Public Ministry is not obliged to approve anything.

Think Portugal Pubic Ministry = UK Home Office, and you will get the picture, ya ?

aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 318
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by aiyoyo on Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:02 pm

@Tony Bennett wrote:

Alternatively someone in the Portuguese government put the letter in the shredder by mistake?

Probably not by mistake - if it is request to follow up on phantom team of professional abductors !

If no good reason to support/justify request is stated in the ILOR, logic dictates the Portuguese would not see the point in wasting time and resources just to entertain MET's whim of fancy.


aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 318
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by Woofer on Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:24 pm

@ Aiyoyo - "Think Portugal Pubic Ministry = UK Home Office, and you will get the picture, ya ?"

Ya,  am getting the picture   big grin

Woofer

Posts : 3390
Reputation : 12
Join date : 2012-02-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by Woofer on Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:28 pm

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@russiandoll wrote:As far as I am aware a rogatory letter is sent from one court to another, so to the top of the judicial system it would appear. Will check this for accuracy.
May be it goes like this:

Senior investigator in England wants a suspect to be interviewed in Portugal.

So:

Letter Redwood to Bernard Hogan-Howe

Then:

Letter Bernard Hogan-Howe to Minister for Justice

Then

Letter Minister for Justice to Home Secretary

Then

Letter Home Secretary to Foreign Secretary

Then

Foreign Secretary gets approval from Prime Minister

Then

British Foreign Secretary writes to Portugese Foreign Secretary  

Then

Portuguese Foreign Secretary writes to Attorney-General

Then

Attorney-General writes to Minsterio Publico

Then

Minsterio Publico writes to Head of PJ

Then

Head of PJ contacts whoever is running the Portugese side of the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance.


Hardly suprising, then, that it may have got 'lost in the post'.

Were any of these letters sent 'Recorded Delivery'?

Ha ha, love it   big grin

Woofer

Posts : 3390
Reputation : 12
Join date : 2012-02-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:35 pm

Cristobell, 
 
Thank you for quietly removing my spelling error, as if I'd done it right! Very kind. :)

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by aiyoyo on Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:20 pm

@Tony Bennett wrote:
[b]May be it goes like this:

Senior investigator in England wants a suspect to be interviewed in Portugal.

So:

Letter Redwood to Bernard Hogan-Howe (1)

Then:

Letter Bernard Hogan-Howe to Minister for Justice (2)

Then

Letter Minister for Justice to Home Secretary (3)

Then

Letter Home Secretary to Foreign Secretary (4)

Then

Foreign Secretary gets approval from Prime Minister (5)

Then

British Foreign Secretary writes to Portugese Foreign Secretary  (6)

Then

Portuguese Foreign Secretary writes to Attorney-General (7)

Then

Attorney-General writes to Minsterio Publico (8)

Then

Minsterio Publico writes to Head of PJ (9)

Then

Head of PJ contacts whoever is running the Portugese side of the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance. (10)

It was reported 2nd ILOR was received by AG (hand delivered personally?); and was forwarded to the Publico Miinsterio.
If report is accurate then (1) it could be sitting in Pblico Ministerio's in-tray awaiting perusal, or (2) it was seen and rejected, so a 3rd ILOR to be delivered quickly. Given the close timing of the 2nd and 3rd ILOR, and close visits by MET officers, It could well be that the 3rd ILOR might be an adjusted/revised one replacing the 2nd ILOR. I'm just speculating here, else it does not make sense for another ILOR to follow suit so closely when the previous one is still awaiting approval and/or action.

So long as the Public Ministerio does not approve it, it does not go further down the chain.

The MET elites sometimes overt and sometimes covert appearance in Portugal is harder to explain, as it has to be about more than just hand delivering the letter.
Moreover one would have thought any meeting with AG and/or Public Ministry would have to be done with counterpart/s of equal position meaning CPS and not MET.







aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 318
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by Doug D on Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:23 pm

Aiyoyo:

'I'm just speculating here, else it does not make sense for another ILOR to follow suit so closely when the previous one is still awaiting approval and/or action'.

Don't forget the tempo's on the move!!?!

Doug D

Posts : 2146
Reputation : 635
Join date : 2013-12-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by aiyoyo on Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:49 pm

@Doug D wrote:Aiyoyo:

'I'm just speculating here, else it does not make sense for another ILOR to follow suit so closely when the previous one is still awaiting approval and/or action'.

Don't forget the tempo's on the move!!?!

It's an Investigation not Orchestra, what tempo would Hewitt be refering to?

The beat of his walk at a tempo of 0.000025bpm hoping to catch the burglars?

The Pink Slug can churn up tannerman, tractorman, vanman, burglars, ex-swarthy-workers, gypsies and more rubbish at a quicker tempo than that.

It's a no wonder the Publico Ministerio sits on the ILOR, because you can't expect to bust into people's home, demand to search property, or see bank statements without good legal reason? It is a violation of privacy. At most you can invite them in for interview as witnesses. They are not suspects. If they are to be treated as suspects they'd have to be conferred arguido status in which case they have a right to remain silent, failing which anything they may say can be ruled inadmissible.


aiyoyo

Posts : 9611
Reputation : 318
Join date : 2009-11-28

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Third letter of request sent by SY to Portugal - Tempo of Madeleine inquiry moving forward

Post by Woofer on Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:33 pm

I can`t believe SY (or CPS) and PJ aren`t communicating with each other by phone or electronically. Surely they don`t send stuff through the post !  They must have set up a safe system of communication.  Even our own legal system has an independent specialised delivery system if hard copies are required to be sent - and that`s only to back up most of the documents which have been sent electronically.

Woofer

Posts : 3390
Reputation : 12
Join date : 2012-02-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Page 15 of 18 Previous  1 ... 9 ... 14, 15, 16, 17, 18  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum